This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somalia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Somalia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomaliaWikipedia:WikiProject SomaliaTemplate:WikiProject SomaliaWikiProject Somalia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somaliland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Somaliland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomalilandWikipedia:WikiProject SomalilandTemplate:WikiProject SomalilandWikiProject Somaliland articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the
Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which has been
designated as a contentious topic.
@
MathAfrique: Thank you for your interesting post. I have a few opinions.
The rebel group calls itself "SSC-Khaatumo", but so far there is no clear link with
SSC or the
Khatumo State. In other words, it is inappropriate to assume that it is a "self-proclaimed SSC-Khaatumo" and the same or a successor organization to these now.
Second, SSC-Khaatumo is seeking to join the Federal Republic of Somalia, but so far it has not done so. There is no evidence that the Federal Republic of Somalia is a party to this conflict. Therefore, in the infobox, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as a conflict with Somaliland and Somalia.
It is also unclear how Puntland is involved in this conflict. Historically, both SSC and Khatumo were at odds with Puntland. SSC-Khaatumo also denies any connection to Puntland, and Puntland denies any connection to SSC-Khaatumo. The Somaliland government argues that the Puntland government is behind this conflict, but so far there is no clear evidence. Therefore, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as part of the Puntland-Somaliland dispute.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 07:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Regional context and hearsay that won't belong in the page:
Villa Somalia (currently Hassan Sheikh Mohamud) has only called for ceasefire and a possibility of self-determination.
However Puntland and southern states have not gotten involved beyond Abdi Madoobe (Jubbaland president, currently in Las Anod).
The Puntland government has no involvement - its too busy melting down because of Deni election delays. The opposition groups are alarmed because of a mass incursion/landings of Emirati (UAE) forces on the Puntlandcoast.
In regards to Las Anod, also hearsay:
Word on Twitter is that Danab (Southern commando) forces who moved to Mogadishu from Las Anod and hail from the region have returned to defend the city. There are also Western-trained generals and clan chiefs providing strategic support.
Thank you for your kind response. I understand that SSC-Khaatumo is the self-appointed successor to Khaatumo. The situation regarding Las Anod is unclear due to press restrictions. I think you write well within those limitations.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC)reply
As this isn't the place for politics, I gave no obligation to explain them. They are not involved. Those who involve themselves in the resistance are considered "fired" by their employers especially SNA.
We are not changing an infobox based on a Twitter source. If we did, we could say that Las Anod civilians are faking the destruction of houses based on footage not shot in lasanod then posted in a false context on Twitter..
It is believed via Twitter that those involved in the war are likely still part of the Harti confederation and/or with connections to Sool. There is also a significant influx of famous figures from Koonfur states. It is not surprising that individuals from Puntland are around. As explained in
Puntland–Somaliland dispute, there are blood and business ties here.
There is also oil exploration rights. That is believed to be the reason why Puntland populace is taking interest in the region. Also the reason Somaliland wants to occupy it so bad.
MathAfrique (
talk) 14:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)reply
This is the most reliable citation on the belligerents thus far:
To change the infobox you must bring better sources than: a Kenyan newspaper with poor verifiability levels, and also the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Somaliland which likely project SL interests.
MathAfrique (
talk) 14:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Due to Majeerteen (Garowe) and Warsangali (Boosaso) involvement, I have opted to restore the Somaliland-Puntland conflict templates but the federal state of Puntland is still not involved.
MathAfrique (
talk) 09:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)reply
This citation from MFA Somaliland fails
WP:VERIFY and
WP:DUE and cannot go in the page. There are "accusations" of POWs who defected from Djibouti fighting for Somaliland. Also PSF defectors who are POWs also. But it is much more important that Deni and Guelleh have categorically denied and discouraged any involvement.
We need to follow
WP:EDITWAR 3RR rule so please give reply or justification here before you add this information again.
Sources ive added are from the ministry of affairs, also sources such as caasimada.net fail to meet
WP:VERIFY and
WP:DUEHawkers994 (
talk) 02:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Somaliland fails
WP:NPOV - it is one of the belligerents and the official spokesperson of their army, and also the main place any possible propaganda will get released through.
To pass
WP:NPOV the source has to present independent verification of their claims regarding any links to Al-Shabab and Puntland Security Forces.
The missing information is proof of organisational involvement rather than individual fighters.
I think caasimada.net does fail WP:VERIFY.. But we don't have a source passing
WP:VERIFY on the most neutral description of the scuttlebutt on Twitter:
ELINT intercepts collected by a multinational team and triangulated show links between AS HQ in Lower Jubba and AS teams fighting in Laas Anood. Names of interest include: Abdi Madoobe, Mowlid Leylooni, Farah Mohamud Jama believed as main coordinators of the effort.
It is widely accepted fact that all forces involved in the conflict are Dhulbahante - this is corroborated by the Somali government, Al-Shabaab and Puntland in multiple consistent video statements. The spokesman on any and all Dhulbahante interests and activity is 1 man -
Garad Jama Garad Ali.
But because the information is now back in the page 🗿
WP:AN/3RR must be looped in per
WP:EDITWAR.
On February 10, the Somaliland Ministry of Foreign Affairs accused the militias of being 'terrorist militias', alleging links to
Al-Shabaab and the
Puntland Security Force which the MFA also described as 'terrorist organizations'.
(No worries and thanks for asking, but I personally don't provide content opinions in such disputes)
~ ToBeFree (
talk) 23:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
ToBeFree: that's all right, could you xpost this discussion to the Somaliland and Somalia WikiProjects?
Feel free to do so; sounds like a good idea.
~ ToBeFree (
talk) 06:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
MathAfrique: The Somaliland government claims that forces outside Somaliland are joining this insurgency, and it is not fair to no include that claim at all. My idea is not to erase the Somaliland claim from the infobox, but to include the annotation "Somaliland claims". Also, it is very difficult to read "the reality of SSC-Khatumo" in the main text, so I think there should be a separate section for this purpose. For example, in that section, "the Somaliland government claims that al-Shabaab is behind the Las Anod insurgency. However, an International Crisis Group representative said that the Somaliland government is claiming al-Shabaab's involvement without providing sufficient evidence.
[1] The Somaliland government also claims that Puntland and the Somali state of Ethiopia are involved in this insurgency, but the Puntland government and the Somali state deny this." Note that I am not going to edit this article directly as I have recently had trouble with Hawkers994.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Freetrashbox: small adjustment - for now, I feel we should put it in the "Clashes" section in the second paragraph. There is not enough content on the page to justify a new section..
MathAfrique (
talk) 12:47, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Al-Shabaab denied early that they are not part of the conflict in Lasanod. Below is an article from the pro-militant website Somalimemo. Somaliland tries to justify the shelling of Lasanod by labeling the unionist side as terrorists.
the article still says that Al-Shabab are part of the conflict despite them rejecting the accusations made by Somaliland. It is an attempt of character assassination
Matteknik (
talk) 06:05, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Another thing, the EU made an statement today on the situation in Somalia. If one scroll down to Lasanod chapter, it says that “ This conflict is a symptom of unaddressed grievances in certain communities and lack of political settlement on the status of Somaliland”
You are free to fix it by applying the feedback to enforce WP:NPOV WP:VERIFY WP:DUE in the previous discussion. I am blocked from doing so atm but please feel free.
MathAfrique (
talk) 07:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
here we have an external source solidifying my earlier source with the mfs that Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod fighting along side other belligerents
[2] so having Alshabab flag belligerent in the info box should be kept.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 12:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
We all agreed Al-Shabaab fighters have travelled into the city. That is acceptable as part of the clashes section. We can only put it in the lede as "Al-Shabaab fighters". Any other phrasing is intentional misinformation.
The current lede sentence with "Al-Shabaab" is false per Somalimemo
The statement "Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod is false
The information can only go in the infobox: Al-Shabaab fighters
Again you are citing either a stakeholder (Somaliland MFA) in this conflict or a pen for hire. This is Somaliland speaker of parliament Abdirisaq Khalif clearly stating there are NO terrorists (argagihiso) in Lasanod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXA3Qgpo-g
We have also seen United Nations OCHA with the SSC-Khatumo, Ethiopian federal delegation and the Somalia president offering to mediate. Judging by your history you have a interests in Somaliland but please stop your vandalization and misinformation about articles regarding those who reject Somaliland authority SSC-Khaatumo.
Opinion piece - fails
WP:NPOV because it says "Somaliland, the most democratic state in the Horn of Africa". The state is in constitutional crisis due to election delays and the huge upsurge in
Waddani support vs the currently ruling
Kulmiye administration. There is also systemic poverty due to a succession of droughts cyclones. The counter to this is Al-Shabab - a big point but one which American sources would likely give undue extra coverage to..
Come on! Michael Rubin the lobbyist, really? And a think tank as a source? I have provided above Al-shabaab and Speaker of Somaliland parliament denying Al-shabaab involvement. Your source also states that Somalia army are fightning alongside Al-shabaab. Ridiculous! Somaliland has also accused the Somali region of Ethiopia of being part of the conflict. Which they denied here
https://menafn.com/1105755616/Somaliland-Ethiopias-Somali-State-Denies-It-Sends-Troops-To-Fight-In-Las-AnodMatteknik (
talk) 12:30, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I have unfortunately spotted an Emirati-funded hit piece on MenaFN recently and I'm concerned that it is politically biased.
That earlier Aei.org
[3] source does NOT fail
WP:NPOV since its referencing another site in its editorial
[4] also this discussion is about Alshabab militant group in Lasanod not droughts, cyclones or political parties. The articles highlights the entering of militant groups in the town and their affiliations with Al Qaeda which is the information thats required.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 12:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The author Micheal Rubin is citing himself. One pro-tip, look up the following sentence "Micheal Rubin Somaliland lobbyist" on google. I urge the admins to remove Al-shabaab as part of this conflict as it is a deliberate smear campaign on the other side of the conflict.
Matteknik (
talk) 13:12, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Our narrative is the exact text of African Intelligence which states 'backed by al-Shabaab fighters'. This suggests we should put the following in the page.
They can be a bulletpoint under "
SSC-Khatumo militias". Per
WP:DUE it would go below "∗ Dhulbahante clan fighters" and "∗ Ugaar Saleebaan fighters" (source:
"Ugaar Saleebaan clan from Bari ..." - Twitter) - and likely above "Puntland Security Force defectors" and "Somali National Army defectors".
This information does not belong in the lede at its current length and should go in clashes - just to enforce
WP:DUE.
We have all the citations we need to produce a balanced coverage of the incident and remove edits saying Al Qaeda itself is in Las Anod.
Here is the U.S embassy communique from today telling Somaliland president to withdraw from Lasanod. The U.S are deeply involved in the war against terrorism in Somalia, doubt they would give this statement if there were truly any terrorists in the city.
https://twitter.com/US2SOMALIA/status/1641121894639321110?s=20
I understand this is not a forum to go back and forth, i have provided communiques from Al-shabab, Somaliland speaker of parliament, all rejecting the claims of terrorists in the city and i hope the admins take those into consideration.
Matteknik (
talk) 17:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Somaliland has also accused the former president of Somalia of orchestrating things.
https://www.bbc.com/somali/articles/cy05k9j7lvyo So far they have accused Al-shabaab, Puntland, SSC, Somalia army, the former president and Ethiopias somali region of part of the conflict.
Matteknik (
talk) 13:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The world's prominent mass media do not seem to consider Somaliland's claim of al-Shabaab's involvement in the Las Anod insurgency to be supported by the facts. For examples,
— Al-Qaeda-affiliated armed group al-Shabab has also rejected claims that it was involved in the fightin. (
Al Jazeera)
— Somaliland government in Hargeisa blamed on the Islamist militant group al-Shabab. No evidence was provided to substantiate the claim.(
The Guardian)
— Somaliland’s government has blamed the unrest on fighters with “anti-peace groups and terrorism” and alleged that the al-Shabab extremist group has supported some attacks.(
AP News)
— On Tuesday Somaliland said fighters from neighbouring Puntland, a semi-autonomous region of Somalia, were fighting alongside local militias in the town of Las Anod, accusations Puntland denied.(
Reuters)
(Additional comment) If we read carefully, the American Enterprise Institute article
[5] states that the insurgents are terrorists, but not that they are al-Shabaab. This article merely presents the view of the Somaliland government that al-Shabaab has joined the insurgency.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 13:18, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I would advise in no uncertain terms that this should not be put in the infobox per
WP:DUE, unless the infobox is expanded with other much more significant belligerents as I explained ("... Ugaar Saleebaan").
We have come to an impasse with 3 editors suggesting curtailment/qualification of this information or removal.
Will be putting this all up for
RfC and seeing what they think. We have every source here for them to make a decision, and information on the quality/validity of each.
So are you going to remove the false information or not? Al shabab demied involvement so did the locals and Somalia itself and no one takes that claim seriously. There’s no proof of them being involved, I suggest you take that flag down it’s ridiculous and misleading.
Somalistar7 (
talk) 01:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I have removed the flag icon, it is clearly not appropriate as there is consensus this implies organisational involvement. We know that Al-Shabaab the organisation is not present in Lasanod. It's also clear the ELINT reports were entirely unsubstantiated and no evidence was presented supporting this tweet.
RfC about belligerents and referencing in the lede and infobox
Based on the many news sources in this talk page (CTRL+F and search http to see all these links), we need help resolving the previous edit war and fixing this page which contains unverified (likely false/unverifiable) information:
Las Anod being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox
the organizational presence of Al-Shabaab
RfC:
Should this information be removed from the infobox or qualified?
Should it also be removed from the lede or qualified with "(claimed by Somaliland)"?
Hello @
MathAfrique, I said a few days ago on the talk page of WikiProject Somaliland that I would respond to your message about this article later in the day, but with the talk page now over 30,000 bytes, it's quite the daunting read: for me, and for other editors, so I wouldn't expect many to any others opinion on the debate. But I did read it all, and my opinion is that:
1: There theoretically should be some sort of mention in the article that the situation on the ground is unclear, and that there is likely not as clean-cut answers (i.e. a specific country or army) to the question 'who is supporting/a belligerent in the conflict', because there seems to be mixed motives and opinions by the people in those countries or armies. Even if they do not come from the most reliable sources, the existence of multiple of these sources claiming multiple things shows some truth to this claim.
2: Solely going off the article
Las Anod, the city is cited as being under the control of Somaliland since 2007. If this is untrue, they being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox should not be kept, unless this can be proven and changed on both pages.
3: As for the presence of Al-Shabaab, I really do not have a good answer. I guess I would say that this loops back to my first answer, that there likely is also not a clean-cut yes or no answer to whether they are a presence in the conflict or not. There likely are some militants who claim association with the militia operating in the
fog of the conflict, without backing from Al-Shabaab themselves. I think they should be put into the infobox as:
... or something along those lines to at least give due weight to the claim.
That's about all I have to say. I hope this response was helpful, and I'm sorry that I can't give a more in-depth response, I'm not as caught up on recent Somaliland politics since I stopped keeping up with the article
2022 in Somaliland last year. Cheers!
Johnson524 (
Talk!) 14:06, 7 April 2023 (UTC)reply
IMHO we should put "
Al-Shabaab fighters (claimed)" because all the sources agree that it's individuals linked (now or previously-unclear!) to the militant group.
This is also the format we'd use for to add belligerent counts later AFAIK.
MathAfrique (
talk) 13:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Johnson524 @
MathAfrique I think that the claim that Al Shabaab was involved in the fighting is extremely ridiculous and shouldn't be addressed. There is absolutely no evidence that they were involved in the fighting and they don't even have a presence in this region.
محرر البوق (
talk) 17:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
محرر البوق: I put this claim in the infobox going solely off of the links provided in the discussion above. There was basically no consensus being reached, so putting "(claimed)[cite][cite] (disputed)[cite][cite]" seemed to me to be the best way to resolve the conflict by giving both arguments their due weight, while definitively confirming neither, because both arguments don't have the most reliable sources backing them. Cheers!
Johnson524 (
Talk!) 17:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Happy with this, also proposing that the mention in the lede is removed entirely. There is no "
Al-Shabaab (militant group) militia" or organised effort in Las Anod, a fact that all sources agree on. Nobody believes Al-Shabaab is organizationally active there except a small cadre of hawks on Twitter.
The ELINT report is entirely unsubstantiated. The individual was prompted to provide sources but never did. It is possible they may be a pen-for-hire on behalf of their thinktank on Twitter, serving SLMFA interests.
@
MathAfrique The number of belligerents seems too excessive. Do you think that all these militias have to be individually mentioned?
محرر البوق (
talk) 18:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Its not excessive, as they are an actual part of the conflict.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 18:51, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I moved the subclans of Majaarteen to the conflict section. Just to keep the infobox neat!
MathAfrique (
talk) 22:06, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
That makes sense, even though they’re all different sub clan militias.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 23:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
NB: Looping in some people -
MathAfrique 05:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Facebook used as a primary source in article referencing
Facebook cannot be used as sources of information for Wikipedia. It should be removed unless another reliable source can be found. See
WP:UGC. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 12:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)reply
For cultural reasons, Las Anod and the Sool region have consistently suffered from poor local news reporting. I don't think better sources can be found unless Garowe Online has covered it. Admittedly even Garowe Online is not under a reporter's name and isn't the best source .. however, it's one of the least personally offensive or politically charged in the Somali zeitgeist.
Even if there is no other reliable source, Facebook cannot be used as a source. Information that is not backed by reliable sources is as same as nonexistent to Wikipedia. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 12:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
If the videos are uploaded or generated by a real news media company, I think it could do.
The current version has [2]-[8] Facebook sources. Please tell me the number of them that you consider real news media. And please provide a URL that proves that the media is reliable. (e.g., location of their headquarters, etc.)
Freetrashbox (
talk) 20:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Any that are clips of Golis TV or Sagal TV clearly qualify for these requirements. This leaves us 3 or 4 links to assess.
MathAfrique (
talk) 03:56, 15 April 2023 (UTC)reply
A
Google search for "Golis TV" finds only YouTube and Facebook. Also, I can't find any citations on
Google Books and
Google Sholar, as well as
Wikipedia. Also, the
contact information on Facebook is a free email, and the phone number written is for the US. It is hard to believe that there is a professional news media in the U.S. that does not have its own domain name or website.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 10:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Scratch that - Golis TV is nonexistent. These videos are a primary source shot by a journalist and sponsored by Golis Telecom. Not sure what we do from here.
I will mark the article as relying on primary sources.
MathAfrique (
talk) 17:57, 16 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Currently, there is no objective evidence that the reporter is a professional journalist or not. All explanations are in Somali speaking and cannot be understood by non-Somali speakers. In other words, it is not at all clear from the video whether this is about the present time, Las Anod, or the clans mentioned in the commentary. It should not be used as a primary source.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 13:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The Somali language barrier does not violate Wikipedia sourcing policy. We also do not have better sources, and this fact is not being actively disputed.
The "video spoken in Somali" is only one of the problems. A personal Facebook Page does not make it a reliable source. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Even if the person is a well-known journalist, a personal Facebook page does not qualify as a reliable source of information for Wikipedia. See
WP:SELFSOURCE.--
Freetrashbox (
talk) 10:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I saw
your edit. I feel this source is reliable. I think a particularly important description is that"The Dhulbahante are indeed receiving money, equipment and fighters, but primarily from allied Darod/Harti clans in Somalia." This source mentions Harti, but not Majeerteen or Warsangali. Whether it was Majeerteen, Warsangali, or both that provided the fighters is not readily apparent from this description. Your description is original research. And even if we were to accept your description, the Facebook source would need to be removed.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 22:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Hoehne's long awaited report is out and it explicitly mentions the Majeerteen and Warsangali. Hope this clears it up.
Since Markus Virgil Hoehne is a university faculty member and allAfrica is a major mass media outlet, I think this source is reliable. I appreciate your continued efforts to find sources of information. However, even if other sources were supporting the information, I think YouTube in Somali is not an appropriate source.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Laascaanood city of Somaliland
Laascaanood is a city located in the republic of Somaliland.
Also is the capital city of Sool region of Somaliland.
41.79.198.8 (
talk) 05:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
in the
Amnesty report, Amnesty called for Somaliland to investigate civilians death in the conflict. Somaliland was not accused of war crimes. This is not accurate. The war took place in urban setting, many civilians were impact in cross fire between Somaliland forces and clan militia.
Mgulaid (
talk) 18:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Note: the source doesn't seem to support the statement about war crimes in the lead (starting with In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing...).
M.Bitton (
talk) 22:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Partly done: See my response below to the request from 1 October 2023. --
Pinchme123 (
talk) 19:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
change: In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations against civilians.[25]
to
In late April, Amnesty International called for cease-fires and expressed concern about the impact of cross fire on displacement and civilians who still remain in the city.[25]
context: the report didn't accuse Somaliland for war crimes, that is not accruate.
Mgulaid (
talk) 06:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.
Seawolf35 (
talk) 15:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Partly done: This edit request is clearly speaking about the already-provided source. After reviewing it, I do not see how we can use WP's voice to say Amnesty International "[accused] the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations". I've changed the sentence to reflect the report, but my changes are not the same as what Mgulaid has written here because the report also does not talk about "cross fire".
Pinchme123 (
talk) 19:14, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Las anod conflict 2023
President Muse Bixi led second phase of war, but no body know that's fact or fiction
41.79.198.23 (
talk) 18:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)reply
Crimes against humanity category removal
Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research.
MediaWiki message delivery (
talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Marking conflict de facto finished per
Khaatumo State 2023 content
Based on the content on the article and the cited facts in
Khaatumo State#Recognition, I can't envision a reason to mark this conflict as ongoing. Clashes have been raging in the region since the turn of the century, and aren't enough to justify marking this conflict as (2023-present). There appear to be no verifiable sources about new Somaliland weaponry or forces after the "strategic retreat", and the
Habr Je'lo mobilisation hasn't really occured either.
MathAfrique (
talk) 16:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somalia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Somalia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomaliaWikipedia:WikiProject SomaliaTemplate:WikiProject SomaliaWikiProject Somalia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somaliland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Somaliland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomalilandWikipedia:WikiProject SomalilandTemplate:WikiProject SomalilandWikiProject Somaliland articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the
Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which has been
designated as a contentious topic.
@
MathAfrique: Thank you for your interesting post. I have a few opinions.
The rebel group calls itself "SSC-Khaatumo", but so far there is no clear link with
SSC or the
Khatumo State. In other words, it is inappropriate to assume that it is a "self-proclaimed SSC-Khaatumo" and the same or a successor organization to these now.
Second, SSC-Khaatumo is seeking to join the Federal Republic of Somalia, but so far it has not done so. There is no evidence that the Federal Republic of Somalia is a party to this conflict. Therefore, in the infobox, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as a conflict with Somaliland and Somalia.
It is also unclear how Puntland is involved in this conflict. Historically, both SSC and Khatumo were at odds with Puntland. SSC-Khaatumo also denies any connection to Puntland, and Puntland denies any connection to SSC-Khaatumo. The Somaliland government argues that the Puntland government is behind this conflict, but so far there is no clear evidence. Therefore, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as part of the Puntland-Somaliland dispute.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 07:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Regional context and hearsay that won't belong in the page:
Villa Somalia (currently Hassan Sheikh Mohamud) has only called for ceasefire and a possibility of self-determination.
However Puntland and southern states have not gotten involved beyond Abdi Madoobe (Jubbaland president, currently in Las Anod).
The Puntland government has no involvement - its too busy melting down because of Deni election delays. The opposition groups are alarmed because of a mass incursion/landings of Emirati (UAE) forces on the Puntlandcoast.
In regards to Las Anod, also hearsay:
Word on Twitter is that Danab (Southern commando) forces who moved to Mogadishu from Las Anod and hail from the region have returned to defend the city. There are also Western-trained generals and clan chiefs providing strategic support.
Thank you for your kind response. I understand that SSC-Khaatumo is the self-appointed successor to Khaatumo. The situation regarding Las Anod is unclear due to press restrictions. I think you write well within those limitations.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC)reply
As this isn't the place for politics, I gave no obligation to explain them. They are not involved. Those who involve themselves in the resistance are considered "fired" by their employers especially SNA.
We are not changing an infobox based on a Twitter source. If we did, we could say that Las Anod civilians are faking the destruction of houses based on footage not shot in lasanod then posted in a false context on Twitter..
It is believed via Twitter that those involved in the war are likely still part of the Harti confederation and/or with connections to Sool. There is also a significant influx of famous figures from Koonfur states. It is not surprising that individuals from Puntland are around. As explained in
Puntland–Somaliland dispute, there are blood and business ties here.
There is also oil exploration rights. That is believed to be the reason why Puntland populace is taking interest in the region. Also the reason Somaliland wants to occupy it so bad.
MathAfrique (
talk) 14:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)reply
This is the most reliable citation on the belligerents thus far:
To change the infobox you must bring better sources than: a Kenyan newspaper with poor verifiability levels, and also the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Somaliland which likely project SL interests.
MathAfrique (
talk) 14:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Due to Majeerteen (Garowe) and Warsangali (Boosaso) involvement, I have opted to restore the Somaliland-Puntland conflict templates but the federal state of Puntland is still not involved.
MathAfrique (
talk) 09:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)reply
This citation from MFA Somaliland fails
WP:VERIFY and
WP:DUE and cannot go in the page. There are "accusations" of POWs who defected from Djibouti fighting for Somaliland. Also PSF defectors who are POWs also. But it is much more important that Deni and Guelleh have categorically denied and discouraged any involvement.
We need to follow
WP:EDITWAR 3RR rule so please give reply or justification here before you add this information again.
Sources ive added are from the ministry of affairs, also sources such as caasimada.net fail to meet
WP:VERIFY and
WP:DUEHawkers994 (
talk) 02:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Somaliland fails
WP:NPOV - it is one of the belligerents and the official spokesperson of their army, and also the main place any possible propaganda will get released through.
To pass
WP:NPOV the source has to present independent verification of their claims regarding any links to Al-Shabab and Puntland Security Forces.
The missing information is proof of organisational involvement rather than individual fighters.
I think caasimada.net does fail WP:VERIFY.. But we don't have a source passing
WP:VERIFY on the most neutral description of the scuttlebutt on Twitter:
ELINT intercepts collected by a multinational team and triangulated show links between AS HQ in Lower Jubba and AS teams fighting in Laas Anood. Names of interest include: Abdi Madoobe, Mowlid Leylooni, Farah Mohamud Jama believed as main coordinators of the effort.
It is widely accepted fact that all forces involved in the conflict are Dhulbahante - this is corroborated by the Somali government, Al-Shabaab and Puntland in multiple consistent video statements. The spokesman on any and all Dhulbahante interests and activity is 1 man -
Garad Jama Garad Ali.
But because the information is now back in the page 🗿
WP:AN/3RR must be looped in per
WP:EDITWAR.
On February 10, the Somaliland Ministry of Foreign Affairs accused the militias of being 'terrorist militias', alleging links to
Al-Shabaab and the
Puntland Security Force which the MFA also described as 'terrorist organizations'.
(No worries and thanks for asking, but I personally don't provide content opinions in such disputes)
~ ToBeFree (
talk) 23:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
ToBeFree: that's all right, could you xpost this discussion to the Somaliland and Somalia WikiProjects?
Feel free to do so; sounds like a good idea.
~ ToBeFree (
talk) 06:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
MathAfrique: The Somaliland government claims that forces outside Somaliland are joining this insurgency, and it is not fair to no include that claim at all. My idea is not to erase the Somaliland claim from the infobox, but to include the annotation "Somaliland claims". Also, it is very difficult to read "the reality of SSC-Khatumo" in the main text, so I think there should be a separate section for this purpose. For example, in that section, "the Somaliland government claims that al-Shabaab is behind the Las Anod insurgency. However, an International Crisis Group representative said that the Somaliland government is claiming al-Shabaab's involvement without providing sufficient evidence.
[1] The Somaliland government also claims that Puntland and the Somali state of Ethiopia are involved in this insurgency, but the Puntland government and the Somali state deny this." Note that I am not going to edit this article directly as I have recently had trouble with Hawkers994.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Freetrashbox: small adjustment - for now, I feel we should put it in the "Clashes" section in the second paragraph. There is not enough content on the page to justify a new section..
MathAfrique (
talk) 12:47, 27 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Al-Shabaab denied early that they are not part of the conflict in Lasanod. Below is an article from the pro-militant website Somalimemo. Somaliland tries to justify the shelling of Lasanod by labeling the unionist side as terrorists.
the article still says that Al-Shabab are part of the conflict despite them rejecting the accusations made by Somaliland. It is an attempt of character assassination
Matteknik (
talk) 06:05, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Another thing, the EU made an statement today on the situation in Somalia. If one scroll down to Lasanod chapter, it says that “ This conflict is a symptom of unaddressed grievances in certain communities and lack of political settlement on the status of Somaliland”
You are free to fix it by applying the feedback to enforce WP:NPOV WP:VERIFY WP:DUE in the previous discussion. I am blocked from doing so atm but please feel free.
MathAfrique (
talk) 07:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
here we have an external source solidifying my earlier source with the mfs that Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod fighting along side other belligerents
[2] so having Alshabab flag belligerent in the info box should be kept.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 12:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC)reply
We all agreed Al-Shabaab fighters have travelled into the city. That is acceptable as part of the clashes section. We can only put it in the lede as "Al-Shabaab fighters". Any other phrasing is intentional misinformation.
The current lede sentence with "Al-Shabaab" is false per Somalimemo
The statement "Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod is false
The information can only go in the infobox: Al-Shabaab fighters
Again you are citing either a stakeholder (Somaliland MFA) in this conflict or a pen for hire. This is Somaliland speaker of parliament Abdirisaq Khalif clearly stating there are NO terrorists (argagihiso) in Lasanod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXA3Qgpo-g
We have also seen United Nations OCHA with the SSC-Khatumo, Ethiopian federal delegation and the Somalia president offering to mediate. Judging by your history you have a interests in Somaliland but please stop your vandalization and misinformation about articles regarding those who reject Somaliland authority SSC-Khaatumo.
Opinion piece - fails
WP:NPOV because it says "Somaliland, the most democratic state in the Horn of Africa". The state is in constitutional crisis due to election delays and the huge upsurge in
Waddani support vs the currently ruling
Kulmiye administration. There is also systemic poverty due to a succession of droughts cyclones. The counter to this is Al-Shabab - a big point but one which American sources would likely give undue extra coverage to..
Come on! Michael Rubin the lobbyist, really? And a think tank as a source? I have provided above Al-shabaab and Speaker of Somaliland parliament denying Al-shabaab involvement. Your source also states that Somalia army are fightning alongside Al-shabaab. Ridiculous! Somaliland has also accused the Somali region of Ethiopia of being part of the conflict. Which they denied here
https://menafn.com/1105755616/Somaliland-Ethiopias-Somali-State-Denies-It-Sends-Troops-To-Fight-In-Las-AnodMatteknik (
talk) 12:30, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I have unfortunately spotted an Emirati-funded hit piece on MenaFN recently and I'm concerned that it is politically biased.
That earlier Aei.org
[3] source does NOT fail
WP:NPOV since its referencing another site in its editorial
[4] also this discussion is about Alshabab militant group in Lasanod not droughts, cyclones or political parties. The articles highlights the entering of militant groups in the town and their affiliations with Al Qaeda which is the information thats required.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 12:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The author Micheal Rubin is citing himself. One pro-tip, look up the following sentence "Micheal Rubin Somaliland lobbyist" on google. I urge the admins to remove Al-shabaab as part of this conflict as it is a deliberate smear campaign on the other side of the conflict.
Matteknik (
talk) 13:12, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Our narrative is the exact text of African Intelligence which states 'backed by al-Shabaab fighters'. This suggests we should put the following in the page.
They can be a bulletpoint under "
SSC-Khatumo militias". Per
WP:DUE it would go below "∗ Dhulbahante clan fighters" and "∗ Ugaar Saleebaan fighters" (source:
"Ugaar Saleebaan clan from Bari ..." - Twitter) - and likely above "Puntland Security Force defectors" and "Somali National Army defectors".
This information does not belong in the lede at its current length and should go in clashes - just to enforce
WP:DUE.
We have all the citations we need to produce a balanced coverage of the incident and remove edits saying Al Qaeda itself is in Las Anod.
Here is the U.S embassy communique from today telling Somaliland president to withdraw from Lasanod. The U.S are deeply involved in the war against terrorism in Somalia, doubt they would give this statement if there were truly any terrorists in the city.
https://twitter.com/US2SOMALIA/status/1641121894639321110?s=20
I understand this is not a forum to go back and forth, i have provided communiques from Al-shabab, Somaliland speaker of parliament, all rejecting the claims of terrorists in the city and i hope the admins take those into consideration.
Matteknik (
talk) 17:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Somaliland has also accused the former president of Somalia of orchestrating things.
https://www.bbc.com/somali/articles/cy05k9j7lvyo So far they have accused Al-shabaab, Puntland, SSC, Somalia army, the former president and Ethiopias somali region of part of the conflict.
Matteknik (
talk) 13:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)reply
The world's prominent mass media do not seem to consider Somaliland's claim of al-Shabaab's involvement in the Las Anod insurgency to be supported by the facts. For examples,
— Al-Qaeda-affiliated armed group al-Shabab has also rejected claims that it was involved in the fightin. (
Al Jazeera)
— Somaliland government in Hargeisa blamed on the Islamist militant group al-Shabab. No evidence was provided to substantiate the claim.(
The Guardian)
— Somaliland’s government has blamed the unrest on fighters with “anti-peace groups and terrorism” and alleged that the al-Shabab extremist group has supported some attacks.(
AP News)
— On Tuesday Somaliland said fighters from neighbouring Puntland, a semi-autonomous region of Somalia, were fighting alongside local militias in the town of Las Anod, accusations Puntland denied.(
Reuters)
(Additional comment) If we read carefully, the American Enterprise Institute article
[5] states that the insurgents are terrorists, but not that they are al-Shabaab. This article merely presents the view of the Somaliland government that al-Shabaab has joined the insurgency.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 13:18, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I would advise in no uncertain terms that this should not be put in the infobox per
WP:DUE, unless the infobox is expanded with other much more significant belligerents as I explained ("... Ugaar Saleebaan").
We have come to an impasse with 3 editors suggesting curtailment/qualification of this information or removal.
Will be putting this all up for
RfC and seeing what they think. We have every source here for them to make a decision, and information on the quality/validity of each.
So are you going to remove the false information or not? Al shabab demied involvement so did the locals and Somalia itself and no one takes that claim seriously. There’s no proof of them being involved, I suggest you take that flag down it’s ridiculous and misleading.
Somalistar7 (
talk) 01:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I have removed the flag icon, it is clearly not appropriate as there is consensus this implies organisational involvement. We know that Al-Shabaab the organisation is not present in Lasanod. It's also clear the ELINT reports were entirely unsubstantiated and no evidence was presented supporting this tweet.
RfC about belligerents and referencing in the lede and infobox
Based on the many news sources in this talk page (CTRL+F and search http to see all these links), we need help resolving the previous edit war and fixing this page which contains unverified (likely false/unverifiable) information:
Las Anod being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox
the organizational presence of Al-Shabaab
RfC:
Should this information be removed from the infobox or qualified?
Should it also be removed from the lede or qualified with "(claimed by Somaliland)"?
Hello @
MathAfrique, I said a few days ago on the talk page of WikiProject Somaliland that I would respond to your message about this article later in the day, but with the talk page now over 30,000 bytes, it's quite the daunting read: for me, and for other editors, so I wouldn't expect many to any others opinion on the debate. But I did read it all, and my opinion is that:
1: There theoretically should be some sort of mention in the article that the situation on the ground is unclear, and that there is likely not as clean-cut answers (i.e. a specific country or army) to the question 'who is supporting/a belligerent in the conflict', because there seems to be mixed motives and opinions by the people in those countries or armies. Even if they do not come from the most reliable sources, the existence of multiple of these sources claiming multiple things shows some truth to this claim.
2: Solely going off the article
Las Anod, the city is cited as being under the control of Somaliland since 2007. If this is untrue, they being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox should not be kept, unless this can be proven and changed on both pages.
3: As for the presence of Al-Shabaab, I really do not have a good answer. I guess I would say that this loops back to my first answer, that there likely is also not a clean-cut yes or no answer to whether they are a presence in the conflict or not. There likely are some militants who claim association with the militia operating in the
fog of the conflict, without backing from Al-Shabaab themselves. I think they should be put into the infobox as:
... or something along those lines to at least give due weight to the claim.
That's about all I have to say. I hope this response was helpful, and I'm sorry that I can't give a more in-depth response, I'm not as caught up on recent Somaliland politics since I stopped keeping up with the article
2022 in Somaliland last year. Cheers!
Johnson524 (
Talk!) 14:06, 7 April 2023 (UTC)reply
IMHO we should put "
Al-Shabaab fighters (claimed)" because all the sources agree that it's individuals linked (now or previously-unclear!) to the militant group.
This is also the format we'd use for to add belligerent counts later AFAIK.
MathAfrique (
talk) 13:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Johnson524 @
MathAfrique I think that the claim that Al Shabaab was involved in the fighting is extremely ridiculous and shouldn't be addressed. There is absolutely no evidence that they were involved in the fighting and they don't even have a presence in this region.
محرر البوق (
talk) 17:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
محرر البوق: I put this claim in the infobox going solely off of the links provided in the discussion above. There was basically no consensus being reached, so putting "(claimed)[cite][cite] (disputed)[cite][cite]" seemed to me to be the best way to resolve the conflict by giving both arguments their due weight, while definitively confirming neither, because both arguments don't have the most reliable sources backing them. Cheers!
Johnson524 (
Talk!) 17:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Happy with this, also proposing that the mention in the lede is removed entirely. There is no "
Al-Shabaab (militant group) militia" or organised effort in Las Anod, a fact that all sources agree on. Nobody believes Al-Shabaab is organizationally active there except a small cadre of hawks on Twitter.
The ELINT report is entirely unsubstantiated. The individual was prompted to provide sources but never did. It is possible they may be a pen-for-hire on behalf of their thinktank on Twitter, serving SLMFA interests.
@
MathAfrique The number of belligerents seems too excessive. Do you think that all these militias have to be individually mentioned?
محرر البوق (
talk) 18:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Its not excessive, as they are an actual part of the conflict.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 18:51, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I moved the subclans of Majaarteen to the conflict section. Just to keep the infobox neat!
MathAfrique (
talk) 22:06, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
That makes sense, even though they’re all different sub clan militias.
Hawkers994 (
talk) 23:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
NB: Looping in some people -
MathAfrique 05:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Facebook used as a primary source in article referencing
Facebook cannot be used as sources of information for Wikipedia. It should be removed unless another reliable source can be found. See
WP:UGC. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 12:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)reply
For cultural reasons, Las Anod and the Sool region have consistently suffered from poor local news reporting. I don't think better sources can be found unless Garowe Online has covered it. Admittedly even Garowe Online is not under a reporter's name and isn't the best source .. however, it's one of the least personally offensive or politically charged in the Somali zeitgeist.
Even if there is no other reliable source, Facebook cannot be used as a source. Information that is not backed by reliable sources is as same as nonexistent to Wikipedia. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 12:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
If the videos are uploaded or generated by a real news media company, I think it could do.
The current version has [2]-[8] Facebook sources. Please tell me the number of them that you consider real news media. And please provide a URL that proves that the media is reliable. (e.g., location of their headquarters, etc.)
Freetrashbox (
talk) 20:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Any that are clips of Golis TV or Sagal TV clearly qualify for these requirements. This leaves us 3 or 4 links to assess.
MathAfrique (
talk) 03:56, 15 April 2023 (UTC)reply
A
Google search for "Golis TV" finds only YouTube and Facebook. Also, I can't find any citations on
Google Books and
Google Sholar, as well as
Wikipedia. Also, the
contact information on Facebook is a free email, and the phone number written is for the US. It is hard to believe that there is a professional news media in the U.S. that does not have its own domain name or website.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 10:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Scratch that - Golis TV is nonexistent. These videos are a primary source shot by a journalist and sponsored by Golis Telecom. Not sure what we do from here.
I will mark the article as relying on primary sources.
MathAfrique (
talk) 17:57, 16 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Currently, there is no objective evidence that the reporter is a professional journalist or not. All explanations are in Somali speaking and cannot be understood by non-Somali speakers. In other words, it is not at all clear from the video whether this is about the present time, Las Anod, or the clans mentioned in the commentary. It should not be used as a primary source.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 13:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The Somali language barrier does not violate Wikipedia sourcing policy. We also do not have better sources, and this fact is not being actively disputed.
The "video spoken in Somali" is only one of the problems. A personal Facebook Page does not make it a reliable source. --
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Even if the person is a well-known journalist, a personal Facebook page does not qualify as a reliable source of information for Wikipedia. See
WP:SELFSOURCE.--
Freetrashbox (
talk) 10:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I saw
your edit. I feel this source is reliable. I think a particularly important description is that"The Dhulbahante are indeed receiving money, equipment and fighters, but primarily from allied Darod/Harti clans in Somalia." This source mentions Harti, but not Majeerteen or Warsangali. Whether it was Majeerteen, Warsangali, or both that provided the fighters is not readily apparent from this description. Your description is original research. And even if we were to accept your description, the Facebook source would need to be removed.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 22:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Hoehne's long awaited report is out and it explicitly mentions the Majeerteen and Warsangali. Hope this clears it up.
Since Markus Virgil Hoehne is a university faculty member and allAfrica is a major mass media outlet, I think this source is reliable. I appreciate your continued efforts to find sources of information. However, even if other sources were supporting the information, I think YouTube in Somali is not an appropriate source.
Freetrashbox (
talk) 11:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Laascaanood city of Somaliland
Laascaanood is a city located in the republic of Somaliland.
Also is the capital city of Sool region of Somaliland.
41.79.198.8 (
talk) 05:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
in the
Amnesty report, Amnesty called for Somaliland to investigate civilians death in the conflict. Somaliland was not accused of war crimes. This is not accurate. The war took place in urban setting, many civilians were impact in cross fire between Somaliland forces and clan militia.
Mgulaid (
talk) 18:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Note: the source doesn't seem to support the statement about war crimes in the lead (starting with In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing...).
M.Bitton (
talk) 22:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Partly done: See my response below to the request from 1 October 2023. --
Pinchme123 (
talk) 19:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
change: In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations against civilians.[25]
to
In late April, Amnesty International called for cease-fires and expressed concern about the impact of cross fire on displacement and civilians who still remain in the city.[25]
context: the report didn't accuse Somaliland for war crimes, that is not accruate.
Mgulaid (
talk) 06:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.
Seawolf35 (
talk) 15:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Partly done: This edit request is clearly speaking about the already-provided source. After reviewing it, I do not see how we can use WP's voice to say Amnesty International "[accused] the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations". I've changed the sentence to reflect the report, but my changes are not the same as what Mgulaid has written here because the report also does not talk about "cross fire".
Pinchme123 (
talk) 19:14, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Las anod conflict 2023
President Muse Bixi led second phase of war, but no body know that's fact or fiction
41.79.198.23 (
talk) 18:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)reply
Crimes against humanity category removal
Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research.
MediaWiki message delivery (
talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Marking conflict de facto finished per
Khaatumo State 2023 content
Based on the content on the article and the cited facts in
Khaatumo State#Recognition, I can't envision a reason to mark this conflict as ongoing. Clashes have been raging in the region since the turn of the century, and aren't enough to justify marking this conflict as (2023-present). There appear to be no verifiable sources about new Somaliland weaponry or forces after the "strategic retreat", and the
Habr Je'lo mobilisation hasn't really occured either.
MathAfrique (
talk) 16:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply