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I'm questioning the following statement from the "Philadelphia tornado" section of this article:
This marks the first EF5 tornado in Mississippi since the Candlestick Park tornado on May 3, 1966.
Nope. Unless we're talking strictly about touchdowns, in which case we should say so. -- Tkynerd ( talk) 21:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
I would say that the Hackleburg tornado deserves its own article considering that it was actually deadlier than the Tuscaloosa tornado and one of the costliest in U.S. history. It was even mentioned that an article should be created for that one when the Tuscaloosa tornado's article was proposed. There are a couple points I would like to bring up, however. First, should there be a more concise name for this article? "2011 Hackleburg–Phil Campbell-Tanner-Huntland tornado" seems like a mouthful to me. Second, the section for this tornado is longer than any other single tornado section I know of in an outbreak article, which is part of the reason I think it should get an article. If the tornado gets its own article should the section in the outbreak article be trimmed a bit?
On another note, does the Vilonia tornado really need its own section here? It was a fairly significant tornado but it just doesn't compare to the other storms in the "Most significant tornadoes" section. It was less significant than other tornadoes that didn't make the list such as the Section–Trenton tornado. Looking at the page history I have found that the section for the Vilonia tornado was added before the violent tornadoes of April 27 occurred. TornadoLGS ( talk) 03:50, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
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EXTREME SUPPORT This is getting as ridiculous as the wiki politics over changing the Syrian Uprising article to Syrian Civil War was when it was clearly known it had become a civil war! This outbreak has shattered the 1974 Super Outbreak in regards of total tornadoes and damage caused so it obviously qualifies as an equal or is greater than the 1974 Super Outbreak. There are many information sources out there that now refer to this outbreak as the 2011 Super Outbreak, to many to list. It is slowly but surely becoming common to call this outbreak a Super Outbreak and there will likely come a day soon that the name of this article will need to be changed. This also means that the original Super Outbreak will need to be changed just a little to the 1974 Super Outbreak, I don't understand why that is so difficult to do. I also don't see a reason why this would be confusing to people since in the near future there will by two Super Outbreaks in common knowledge, there is also the possibility that there could be more Super Outbreaks in the future. Many Scientist back in the 70s that are still alive today thought the an outbreak on the scale of 1974 wouldn't happen again in there lifetime, but it did and in some aspects was worse than 1974. In addition, eventually the generation that was alive during the 1974 Super Outbreak will be outnumbered and replaced by people who were alive only during the 2011 Super Outbreak. I say there is plenty to back moving the article and the bickering needs to end. Its time to change this article's title! Stormchaser89 ( talk) 10:50pm, 17 October 2012 (US Central)
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Reviewer: Pyrotec ( talk · contribs) 20:12, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
This I suspect is going to be a "difficult" nomination to review.
There is certainly a lot of good material in this article and it appears to be well referenced (I've not checked citations, any hence the word "appears" to be ...). On the down side, I'm not all that convinced that the WP:Lead is compliant: it does not appear to be a summary and there is a lot of repetition in the Lead, for instance the first paragraph has 27th April as "the most intense activity" and "being among the most prolific and destructive" and in the last paragraph the 27th has "the deadliest tornado day", "fourth deadliest tornado day" and one other comment. The Meteorological synopsis section starts on the 25th and works forward, but the April 25 subsection starts on 19th and then jumps to 25th. Most of the subsections are entitled X tornado, but the MOS:HEADINGS states "Headings should not refer redundantly to the subject of the article, or to higher-level headings, unless doing so is shorter or clearer", so having tornado in every subsection title is somewhat redundant. There also appears to be some hyperbole with the section title Most significant tornadoes: why can't "significant tornadoes" suffice for a title?
As I stated above, there is a lot of good material in this article and it appears to be well referenced: "Quick failing" this nomination is not appropriate, so I'll move onto the main review.
The requirements are to be found in WP:WIAGA, and in this review I'm going to start at the Meteorological synopsis section, work my way to the end and then go back and look at the Lead. This is likely to take a few days. Pyrotec ( talk) 21:44, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Here, in this subsection of the review, I'm only going to discussions "problems" with the nomination. The good material and good referencing in the article will be considered later, just before "sentencing" takes place.
...Stopping at this point. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 23:07, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
...Stopping at this point. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 22:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
At this point, I'm putting the review On Hold. There are still a few citations to sort out and I've not not yet checked all the corrective actions above.
Pyrotec (
talk) 16:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Well we got there in the end. I'm now awarding this article GA status. Pyrotec ( talk) 20:24, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
What does anyone think of this? United States Man ( talk) 04:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
References 4, 18, 21, 22, 28, 62, 88, 92, 106, 114, 125, and 130 are all either broken or require a subscription to access the page. This is an issue given the article's recent promotion to GA. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
and the Super Outbreak is 2 but what was the 3? I wanted to know for a long time what was the outbreak with the 3 most tornadoes in 24 hr, does any one know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godjira999 ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
OK it's been a few years and we need to talk about this again. For anyone who is automatically going to get dismissive, I'd recommend that you actually hear me out on this and look at this subject objectively since it's been a while. Anyone who watches the Weather Channel will have noticed that over the past few years, this event is commonly referred to as the "2011 Super Outbreak", the "April 2011 Super Outbreak" or the "Super Outbreak of 2011" or some derivative of this type whenever it is discussed or an anniversary rolls around. I've heard Dr. Greg Forbes refer to the event as this multiple times now. Even more significant, AMS research articles and National Weather Service WFOs still refer to this event as the "2011 Super Outbreak", especially NWS Huntsville. Below is a brief list of different significant media and governmental sources that refer to this event as the 2011 Super Outbreak, or some similar derivative:
http://www.weather.com/news/news/tornado-super-outbreak-20120427#/1 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00036.1 http://www.hsvcity.org/cyber/DardenApril2011SuperOutbreak_Overview_CityMeeting.pdf https://ams.confex.com/ams/93Annual/webprogram/Paper214058.html http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/two-years-later-lessons-learne/11067336 http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ohx/?n=stormsurvey0426-2742011 https://ams.confex.com/ams/93Annual/webprogram/Paper223690.html
Keep in mind that this is just the tip of the iceburg. I scraped these together after just a few minutes of research. So with the presence of countless reliable scientific, government, and media sources referring to this event as the 2011 Super Outbreak, including on television years after this event, are we going to keep ignoring this? It is at this point, basically undeniable that this event is to some extent, popularly known as the the 2011 Super Outbreak or something similar. I am not suggesting that we move the article, but I am going to add a sourced, bolded mention of this in the article intro. At this point, it is simply worthy of mention in some way. Feel free to discuss further. Sharkguy05 ( talk) 04:08, 12 October 2015 (UTC)Sharkguy05
We should get a little more discussion/consensus before we go for a total article move, but I'd say it's clear enough that moving it is at least an option. Sharkguy05 ( talk) 04:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC)Sharkguy05
@ Cyclonebiskit and Sharkguy05: This needs to be moved back; there was never a move discussion and such a move has already been defeated numerous times. I don't care who refers to it by what name, a consensus hasn't been reached here. United States Man ( talk) 02:18, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
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References 3, 47, 56, 63, 78, 99, 107, 147, 148, 149, 150, 155, and 160 are all dead and need either mirrors or new references. Jdcomix ( talk) 18:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
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@ United States Man: redirected the article on the Lakeview/Rising Fawn EF5. He claims that it "wasn't notable" because the rating holds no weight. In contrast, the twister killed 25 people which IMO is enough to have it split off for. Could you please elaborate how you think it's not notable? Because it was actually one of the deadliest of the outbreak (although the Tuscaloosa and Hackleburg top it though, but still, 25 deaths is a lot from an EF5.) -- MarioProtIV ( talk/ contribs) 02:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I'm questioning the following statement from the "Philadelphia tornado" section of this article:
This marks the first EF5 tornado in Mississippi since the Candlestick Park tornado on May 3, 1966.
Nope. Unless we're talking strictly about touchdowns, in which case we should say so. -- Tkynerd ( talk) 21:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
I would say that the Hackleburg tornado deserves its own article considering that it was actually deadlier than the Tuscaloosa tornado and one of the costliest in U.S. history. It was even mentioned that an article should be created for that one when the Tuscaloosa tornado's article was proposed. There are a couple points I would like to bring up, however. First, should there be a more concise name for this article? "2011 Hackleburg–Phil Campbell-Tanner-Huntland tornado" seems like a mouthful to me. Second, the section for this tornado is longer than any other single tornado section I know of in an outbreak article, which is part of the reason I think it should get an article. If the tornado gets its own article should the section in the outbreak article be trimmed a bit?
On another note, does the Vilonia tornado really need its own section here? It was a fairly significant tornado but it just doesn't compare to the other storms in the "Most significant tornadoes" section. It was less significant than other tornadoes that didn't make the list such as the Section–Trenton tornado. Looking at the page history I have found that the section for the Vilonia tornado was added before the violent tornadoes of April 27 occurred. TornadoLGS ( talk) 03:50, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Wikipedia policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Wikipedia are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
EXTREME SUPPORT This is getting as ridiculous as the wiki politics over changing the Syrian Uprising article to Syrian Civil War was when it was clearly known it had become a civil war! This outbreak has shattered the 1974 Super Outbreak in regards of total tornadoes and damage caused so it obviously qualifies as an equal or is greater than the 1974 Super Outbreak. There are many information sources out there that now refer to this outbreak as the 2011 Super Outbreak, to many to list. It is slowly but surely becoming common to call this outbreak a Super Outbreak and there will likely come a day soon that the name of this article will need to be changed. This also means that the original Super Outbreak will need to be changed just a little to the 1974 Super Outbreak, I don't understand why that is so difficult to do. I also don't see a reason why this would be confusing to people since in the near future there will by two Super Outbreaks in common knowledge, there is also the possibility that there could be more Super Outbreaks in the future. Many Scientist back in the 70s that are still alive today thought the an outbreak on the scale of 1974 wouldn't happen again in there lifetime, but it did and in some aspects was worse than 1974. In addition, eventually the generation that was alive during the 1974 Super Outbreak will be outnumbered and replaced by people who were alive only during the 2011 Super Outbreak. I say there is plenty to back moving the article and the bickering needs to end. Its time to change this article's title! Stormchaser89 ( talk) 10:50pm, 17 October 2012 (US Central)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Pyrotec ( talk · contribs) 20:12, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
This I suspect is going to be a "difficult" nomination to review.
There is certainly a lot of good material in this article and it appears to be well referenced (I've not checked citations, any hence the word "appears" to be ...). On the down side, I'm not all that convinced that the WP:Lead is compliant: it does not appear to be a summary and there is a lot of repetition in the Lead, for instance the first paragraph has 27th April as "the most intense activity" and "being among the most prolific and destructive" and in the last paragraph the 27th has "the deadliest tornado day", "fourth deadliest tornado day" and one other comment. The Meteorological synopsis section starts on the 25th and works forward, but the April 25 subsection starts on 19th and then jumps to 25th. Most of the subsections are entitled X tornado, but the MOS:HEADINGS states "Headings should not refer redundantly to the subject of the article, or to higher-level headings, unless doing so is shorter or clearer", so having tornado in every subsection title is somewhat redundant. There also appears to be some hyperbole with the section title Most significant tornadoes: why can't "significant tornadoes" suffice for a title?
As I stated above, there is a lot of good material in this article and it appears to be well referenced: "Quick failing" this nomination is not appropriate, so I'll move onto the main review.
The requirements are to be found in WP:WIAGA, and in this review I'm going to start at the Meteorological synopsis section, work my way to the end and then go back and look at the Lead. This is likely to take a few days. Pyrotec ( talk) 21:44, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Here, in this subsection of the review, I'm only going to discussions "problems" with the nomination. The good material and good referencing in the article will be considered later, just before "sentencing" takes place.
...Stopping at this point. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 23:07, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
...Stopping at this point. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 22:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
At this point, I'm putting the review On Hold. There are still a few citations to sort out and I've not not yet checked all the corrective actions above.
Pyrotec (
talk) 16:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Well we got there in the end. I'm now awarding this article GA status. Pyrotec ( talk) 20:24, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
What does anyone think of this? United States Man ( talk) 04:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
References 4, 18, 21, 22, 28, 62, 88, 92, 106, 114, 125, and 130 are all either broken or require a subscription to access the page. This is an issue given the article's recent promotion to GA. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
and the Super Outbreak is 2 but what was the 3? I wanted to know for a long time what was the outbreak with the 3 most tornadoes in 24 hr, does any one know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godjira999 ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
OK it's been a few years and we need to talk about this again. For anyone who is automatically going to get dismissive, I'd recommend that you actually hear me out on this and look at this subject objectively since it's been a while. Anyone who watches the Weather Channel will have noticed that over the past few years, this event is commonly referred to as the "2011 Super Outbreak", the "April 2011 Super Outbreak" or the "Super Outbreak of 2011" or some derivative of this type whenever it is discussed or an anniversary rolls around. I've heard Dr. Greg Forbes refer to the event as this multiple times now. Even more significant, AMS research articles and National Weather Service WFOs still refer to this event as the "2011 Super Outbreak", especially NWS Huntsville. Below is a brief list of different significant media and governmental sources that refer to this event as the 2011 Super Outbreak, or some similar derivative:
http://www.weather.com/news/news/tornado-super-outbreak-20120427#/1 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00036.1 http://www.hsvcity.org/cyber/DardenApril2011SuperOutbreak_Overview_CityMeeting.pdf https://ams.confex.com/ams/93Annual/webprogram/Paper214058.html http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/two-years-later-lessons-learne/11067336 http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ohx/?n=stormsurvey0426-2742011 https://ams.confex.com/ams/93Annual/webprogram/Paper223690.html
Keep in mind that this is just the tip of the iceburg. I scraped these together after just a few minutes of research. So with the presence of countless reliable scientific, government, and media sources referring to this event as the 2011 Super Outbreak, including on television years after this event, are we going to keep ignoring this? It is at this point, basically undeniable that this event is to some extent, popularly known as the the 2011 Super Outbreak or something similar. I am not suggesting that we move the article, but I am going to add a sourced, bolded mention of this in the article intro. At this point, it is simply worthy of mention in some way. Feel free to discuss further. Sharkguy05 ( talk) 04:08, 12 October 2015 (UTC)Sharkguy05
We should get a little more discussion/consensus before we go for a total article move, but I'd say it's clear enough that moving it is at least an option. Sharkguy05 ( talk) 04:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC)Sharkguy05
@ Cyclonebiskit and Sharkguy05: This needs to be moved back; there was never a move discussion and such a move has already been defeated numerous times. I don't care who refers to it by what name, a consensus hasn't been reached here. United States Man ( talk) 02:18, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
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References 3, 47, 56, 63, 78, 99, 107, 147, 148, 149, 150, 155, and 160 are all dead and need either mirrors or new references. Jdcomix ( talk) 18:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
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@ United States Man: redirected the article on the Lakeview/Rising Fawn EF5. He claims that it "wasn't notable" because the rating holds no weight. In contrast, the twister killed 25 people which IMO is enough to have it split off for. Could you please elaborate how you think it's not notable? Because it was actually one of the deadliest of the outbreak (although the Tuscaloosa and Hackleburg top it though, but still, 25 deaths is a lot from an EF5.) -- MarioProtIV ( talk/ contribs) 02:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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