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2008 attacks on Christians in southern Karnataka article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
October 3, 2008. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
September 2008 attacks on Christians in Mangalore started in response to the allegations by
Bajrang Dal that the
New Life Fellowship Church was indulging in forcible conversion of
Hindus? |
This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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I would suggest that the name of the article be changed. The attacks were not only confined to Mangalore. It occurred in other parts of the Dakshina Kannada district, Udupi district and Chikkamagaluru district. Perhaps, September 2008 attacks on Christians in Southern Karnataka. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 14:07, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
A map showing the districts affected by the attacks would be great! Joyson Noel Holla at me! 14:09, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, I will look at making one.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:49, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Can you list for me all of the districts affected by it then?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:51, 23 October 2011 (UTC) The areas affected by the attacks, to my knowledge:
I have obtained OTRS permission from Mangalorean.com to use the following image, and it has been confirmed that they have sent permission today. An OTRS ticket should be issued soon. This image is of former Bajrang Dal convenor Mahendra Kumar at his arrest on 19 September 2008. He admitted to having ordered attacks on New Life prayer halls. Please feel free to use it in the article.
Joyson Noel Holla at me! 09:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I have uploaded the Daijiworld videos here:
Joyson Noel Holla at me! 19:59, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Grapple X ( talk · contribs) 20:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
This is quite a long one so Ii'm going to break it down a bit in the review, I'll make it clear when I've looked over everything.
@ Suneye1: I don't quite understand the reason "WP:Lead" for the reverts you made
Is it against WP:Lead to ask for WP:Verification? Special:Diff/1053336119
You have claimed my edits are unsourced Special:Diff/1053486019, but the current revision of the leade has no sources for peaceful Bajrang Dal "activists" and Catholics being violent, except the first few lines.
My contribs Special:Diff/1053336119 brought the article closer to WP:MOS, there was repetitive content in the lead that i had removed. Your reverts have made the lead WP:Verbose. My edits brought the article closer to WP:Lead and MOS as far I can see.
Your revision has also brought the unsourced "Bajarang dal activists" and Catholic violence WP:POV back into the article. The lead gives the false impression that Christian minority are the violent ones, while making ideologues of Hindu fascism look like the victims or "activists". Do activists indulge in violence vandalism arson and threats against freedom of religion/ conversion? It is fascists who do it.
It is interesting to note that you did not revert sockpuppetry Special:Diff/1053396630 for weeks until i made attempts improve the article, probably because the article still had the Bajrang Dal "activists" and "Catholics ever resorted to violence" WP:Tone. Are my contribs so much worse than sockpuppetry?
Only after i made contributions that you found a reason to erase all my contribs on the flimsy grounds of "unsourced" when much of the lead is poorly sourced.
I reiterate, the current revision Special:Diff/1053396630 contains a WP:POV that is sympathetic to and has soft tone to the Hindu "activists" who threatened NLFT with more violence in order to stop conversions/ freedom of religion. Nolicmahr ( talk) 12:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
... gives the false impression that Christian minority are the violent ones, while making ideologues of Hindu fascism look like the victims or "activists""in my view. The entire article passed GA criteria and is neutral. If the sources called them "activists" then we are supposed to write the same not "fascists", Wikipedia published what reliable sources say.- SUN EYE 1 16:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
GA review happened in 2012 and we can see that lots of edits have happened since then. That's how the Catholic "violence" and Hindu "activism" narrative has crept in. You yourself didn't see the sockpuppetry for weeks.
It is certainly in the realm of possibility to WP:Cherrypick sources and disguise Hindu fascists/ ultranationalists as the victimised law abiding "activists" who were being "forcibly converted" by catholic "violence", in spite of being in the ruling majority BJP Karnataka at the time.
Activists do not indulge in arson, vandalism& threatening with rape and burning as Bajrang Dal has done, this is 21st century WP:Commonsense for someone who is acquainted with basic human rights.
The stone pelting was in done in self defence against police brutality and supression of civil disobedience/ protests by Catholics. Calling acts of self defence as violence, dressing up fascist violence and rape threats as "activism" is certainly WP:POV stemming Hindu fascist far right politics. Nolicmahr ( talk) 03:58, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
Okay WP:Verbose may not be a Wiki guideline but WP:MOSLEAD certainly is. The lead needs to be trimmed and it certainly does not have to WP:Whitewash fascists who issued rape and burning threats as peaceful law-abiding "activists". Nolicmahr ( talk) 04:26, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
"Sanghi" is not "OR" uncited info does not automatically become "OR". If you want citations for it you can make use of the citation tag, there no need to revert everything to "GA Review", that is WP:Disruptive. Nolicmahr ( talk) 04:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2008 attacks on Christians in southern Karnataka article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about 2008 attacks on Christians in southern Karnataka. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about 2008 attacks on Christians in southern Karnataka at the Reference desk. |
2008 attacks on Christians in southern Karnataka has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
October 3, 2008. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
September 2008 attacks on Christians in Mangalore started in response to the allegations by
Bajrang Dal that the
New Life Fellowship Church was indulging in forcible conversion of
Hindus? |
This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I would suggest that the name of the article be changed. The attacks were not only confined to Mangalore. It occurred in other parts of the Dakshina Kannada district, Udupi district and Chikkamagaluru district. Perhaps, September 2008 attacks on Christians in Southern Karnataka. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 14:07, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
A map showing the districts affected by the attacks would be great! Joyson Noel Holla at me! 14:09, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, I will look at making one.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:49, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Can you list for me all of the districts affected by it then?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:51, 23 October 2011 (UTC) The areas affected by the attacks, to my knowledge:
I have obtained OTRS permission from Mangalorean.com to use the following image, and it has been confirmed that they have sent permission today. An OTRS ticket should be issued soon. This image is of former Bajrang Dal convenor Mahendra Kumar at his arrest on 19 September 2008. He admitted to having ordered attacks on New Life prayer halls. Please feel free to use it in the article.
Joyson Noel Holla at me! 09:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
I have uploaded the Daijiworld videos here:
Joyson Noel Holla at me! 19:59, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Grapple X ( talk · contribs) 20:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
This is quite a long one so Ii'm going to break it down a bit in the review, I'll make it clear when I've looked over everything.
@ Suneye1: I don't quite understand the reason "WP:Lead" for the reverts you made
Is it against WP:Lead to ask for WP:Verification? Special:Diff/1053336119
You have claimed my edits are unsourced Special:Diff/1053486019, but the current revision of the leade has no sources for peaceful Bajrang Dal "activists" and Catholics being violent, except the first few lines.
My contribs Special:Diff/1053336119 brought the article closer to WP:MOS, there was repetitive content in the lead that i had removed. Your reverts have made the lead WP:Verbose. My edits brought the article closer to WP:Lead and MOS as far I can see.
Your revision has also brought the unsourced "Bajarang dal activists" and Catholic violence WP:POV back into the article. The lead gives the false impression that Christian minority are the violent ones, while making ideologues of Hindu fascism look like the victims or "activists". Do activists indulge in violence vandalism arson and threats against freedom of religion/ conversion? It is fascists who do it.
It is interesting to note that you did not revert sockpuppetry Special:Diff/1053396630 for weeks until i made attempts improve the article, probably because the article still had the Bajrang Dal "activists" and "Catholics ever resorted to violence" WP:Tone. Are my contribs so much worse than sockpuppetry?
Only after i made contributions that you found a reason to erase all my contribs on the flimsy grounds of "unsourced" when much of the lead is poorly sourced.
I reiterate, the current revision Special:Diff/1053396630 contains a WP:POV that is sympathetic to and has soft tone to the Hindu "activists" who threatened NLFT with more violence in order to stop conversions/ freedom of religion. Nolicmahr ( talk) 12:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
... gives the false impression that Christian minority are the violent ones, while making ideologues of Hindu fascism look like the victims or "activists""in my view. The entire article passed GA criteria and is neutral. If the sources called them "activists" then we are supposed to write the same not "fascists", Wikipedia published what reliable sources say.- SUN EYE 1 16:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
GA review happened in 2012 and we can see that lots of edits have happened since then. That's how the Catholic "violence" and Hindu "activism" narrative has crept in. You yourself didn't see the sockpuppetry for weeks.
It is certainly in the realm of possibility to WP:Cherrypick sources and disguise Hindu fascists/ ultranationalists as the victimised law abiding "activists" who were being "forcibly converted" by catholic "violence", in spite of being in the ruling majority BJP Karnataka at the time.
Activists do not indulge in arson, vandalism& threatening with rape and burning as Bajrang Dal has done, this is 21st century WP:Commonsense for someone who is acquainted with basic human rights.
The stone pelting was in done in self defence against police brutality and supression of civil disobedience/ protests by Catholics. Calling acts of self defence as violence, dressing up fascist violence and rape threats as "activism" is certainly WP:POV stemming Hindu fascist far right politics. Nolicmahr ( talk) 03:58, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
Okay WP:Verbose may not be a Wiki guideline but WP:MOSLEAD certainly is. The lead needs to be trimmed and it certainly does not have to WP:Whitewash fascists who issued rape and burning threats as peaceful law-abiding "activists". Nolicmahr ( talk) 04:26, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
"Sanghi" is not "OR" uncited info does not automatically become "OR". If you want citations for it you can make use of the citation tag, there no need to revert everything to "GA Review", that is WP:Disruptive. Nolicmahr ( talk) 04:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)