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Although I agree this collision was probably accidental, nobody knows yet whether this was, in fact, an accident. Matt Fitzpatrick ( talk) 04:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Some articles I've read say there were a confirmed 220 passengers, + 2 workers on board. Can I change it in the article? 69.239.113.102 ( talk) 06:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I hiked back to the collision and took quite a few photographs that are available for use in this article if someone more experienced in the ways of Wikipedia feels they're appropriate: http://midnight.caltech.edu/craig/gallery/v/craig/lapasadena/traincollision/ dcraig ( talk) 11:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The following message appeared at the bottom of the Emergency Alert page on the Metrolink web site the morning afte the incident. I do not know when it was first posted.
TELECONFERENCE MEETING NOTICE - SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA REGIONAL RAIL AUTHORITY BOARD OF DIRECTORS 10:00 A.M., SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 13, 2008
An emergency meeting/closed session of the Southern California Regional Rail Authority Board of Directors by teleconference call to discuss a threat to public services and facilities will be held at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday September 13, 2008 pursuant to California Government Code Sections 54956.5 and 54957.
This notice is suggestive of a terrorist threat. Workers were already investigating the signal equipment while the rescue operation was still underway. Is it possible that there some connection between this notice and the collision the day before? I do not know if this action is unusual for Metrolink since I do not follow its board notices. I do not recall seeing anything like this in the past for MTA, which I do closely follow. Marty -- 76.173.176.162 ( talk) 16:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
New York Daily News [1] and at least one cable news outlet is saying the cause was due to engineer error on the part of the commuter train; the engineer failed to stop at a red signal. -- 24.11.104.84 ( talk) 21:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Currently the article states "the railway signal system is designed to ensure that trains wait on the double track section while a train is proceeding in the other direction on the single track." This may in fact be accurate, which is why I didn't just go ahead and change it, but I'm wondering if it might be clearer to say "...ensure that trains wait on the secondary track while a train is proceeding in the other direction on the main track." My thought here is that "the double track section" refers to both tracks, not just to the secondary track. - Mark Dixon ( talk) 23:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
What was wrong with 2008 Chatsworth train collision? The current name makes it sound like only one train crashed. – Zntrip 03:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I would like to return to 2008 Chatsworth train collision too, but only an admin can do so. – Zntrip 05:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Change it to Chatsworth train crash so it's like Glendale train crash, fools. Nutmegger ( talk) 19:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
(deindent) The following discussion took place on my talk page, but it is more properly put here, so I'm moving the relevent parts. AKRadecki Speaketh 16:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC) You moved Chatsworth train crash to 2008 Chatsworth train collision with the edit summary "This is the preferred method of naming per the Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management". Am I missing something? I can't find any mention of using "collision" at that project. -- NE2 00:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone explain how the engineer of the passenger train could "run a red light" unless the switch connecting the siding to the main track was thrown in the direction to allow such passage. Who threw the switch? Roesser ( talk) 03:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
I know it is a controversial subject with many feeling that the rescuers should have waited (and probably more liking the moment of silence mid-rescue) to have their moment of silence and bringing out the white sheet until after the rescue was finished, but I think it is pertinent to get recognized in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.192.141 ( talk) 19:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
What are you talking about? – Zntrip 22:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
The article mentions that one victim was a cop, that seems adequate. It's not like the cop died saving people, she was on her way home and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, like the other 23 who died. The firefighters making a 9/11 moment out of it just because she happened to be a cop really didn't make much sense, and the article doesn't need to dwell on it any further. - Mark Dixon ( talk) 20:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Death toll rose to 26 today from CNN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.93.31 ( talk) 20:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
There has not been so far any mention of safety devices that would have enforced a stop at the red signal, such as:
While it may be a violation of the rules to conduct a distracting text message with an enthusiast, the driver might have legitimately been responding to a message from the Train Controller to say look out for stone-throwers and been distracted that way, as happened in the Seven Hills railway incident. Tabletop ( talk) 00:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I know this is a sad thought, but hasn't the number of injuries decreased since some of the injured have died (I believe it is two)? – Zntrip 03:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Metrolink left fliers scattered on the seats of its trains this morning for passengers (a common occurrence). This particular one addresses the 9/12 collision. I have scanned and uploaded a copy into PDF here:[ [4]]. This document could be used in the main article or referenced from it if anyone feels it is worth mentioning. Before we do that, however, I need a little help figuring out how to address the copyright issue. Essentially, this is akin to a press release but technically I'm the author as the one who scanned it. My interest is making sure that the usage is correctly described/attributed to Metrolink and that their rights are respected. Any help on this is appreciated.-- CheMechanical ( talk) 19:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Times [5] is also mentioning that he may have been distraught over the February loss of his HIV positive lover/housemate from last February. Although not even close to appropriate for a wiki article, if the story develops with evidence it could be worth mention/reference. B4Ctom1 ( talk) 23:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Sounds to me like the conspiracy theorists are already hard at work.
--
Root Beers (
talk) 20:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
The engineers name was Robert M. Sanchez. He was 46 at the time of his death.
-- Root Beers ( talk) 13:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Changing article from a generic Robert Sanchez to either Robert M. Sanchez or Robert Martin Sanchez. This is for two reasons, all reports from major news organizations Refer to him with the M or Martin in his name. Two, Robert Sanchez with out the middle name or initial is generic and can point to a large group of people, both dead and alive; keeping the M keeps the article specific and detail oriented.
--
Root Beers (
talk) 04:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
I think this should be incorporated somehow, " Freight brakeman in deadly LA train collision sues". – Zntrip 05:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I think there be a new section to describe the safety reforms that have been implemented because of the accident. The California Public Utilities Commission emergency order to temporarily ban the use of cell phones and the Senate bill ( [6]) can be added. – Zntrip 22:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Just spotted this off Wikinews: Witnesses: Doomed train had green light. Sources listed include LA Times, KCBS and IronWood Tech. I had heard rumors to this effect, but haven't had a chance to research them yet. Slambo (Speak) 18:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
A map of the turnout/switch/points is Here. The box outlining the switch is a bit low - the small white rectangle on the left hand side of the track would be the switch-machine/points-motor which changes the switch from normal (straight) to reverse (curved). The cross-hair is on the opposite side of the track to the switch-machine. Tabletop ( talk) 05:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have a picture (or description) of the two signal(s) at the end of the double track?
Were these signals LED or incandescent?
Similarly with the previous signals on the double track be? Tabletop ( talk) 04:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a garbled report from one of the lawyers participating the the case that the signal that the passenger train passed was displaying a "flashing red". This sounds strange. What is going on? By and large, railroad signals do not flash red, except for level crossings which are another matter. [7] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabletop ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I will be preforming the review of this article to see if it meets the good article criteria. This process may take up to seven days. if you have any questions during the review process, for example about any edits I may make, please feel free to contact me on my talk page. Million_Moments ( talk) 15:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
This article has been placed on hold, as a few changes and clarifications need to be made before it can pass GA: -
This article will be watched for seven days, and if no improvement is made in that time maybe failed without warning. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to leave messages and comments here which I will respond to as quickly as possible. Good luck! Million_Moments ( talk) 16:30, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how I missed the changes that had been made to this article, they did not appear in my watchlist. I will go over the article very soon and re-assess it. Million_Moments ( talk) 16:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunatly this article has failed GA due to lack of responce whilst the article has been on hold. Comments above still stand and when have been addressed the article can be renominated. If you feel this review is in error the article can be listed at WP:GAR. Thanks for all your work so far and good luck! Million_Moments ( talk) 16:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Is Chatsworth station on a crossing loop, in which case there is single line on both sides?
Or is Chatsworth station at the end of the double line? Tabletop ( talk) 00:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we include this accident in crossing loop#Accidents at crossing loops? Tabletop ( talk) 00:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Trains magazine of December 2008 has a diagram showing the site of the accident. It is not very helpful as it shows just one red light, and not the arrangement of the several signals that would be involved. The question mentioned above of whether the starting signal has one, two or three lenses is totally unclear. Pictures in that issue of other what appear to be starting signals do seem to show signals with two and three lenses. Tabletop ( talk) 11:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Trains magazine on p13 says that the red signal at the end of the double line may have been dimmer than normal.
It repeats the point that the conductor and three witnesses on the depot platform said that the signal was in fact green, a wrong side failure of some kind. The NTSB disputes this.
Tabletop ( talk) 22:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I have reinstated my edit. Will reference the map on the article talk page, but the truth of my statement was self evident. If interlocking trap points had been in place no collision would have occurred. We would be talking of a derailment.-- Wickifrank ( talk) 13:49, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone else noted this LA Times article: Experts say sequence of signals may have contributed to Metrolink crash, by Robert Lopez and Rich Connell, Los Angeles Times? Summary extracts as follows:
“Several hundred yards and a few seconds before arriving at the Chatsworth station, Metrolink engineer Robert M. Sanchez passed a critical solid yellow signal that should have warned him to stop at the next light about a mile after the depot, according to federal safety investigators.
Placing the yellow light before a station, experts say, creates an opportunity for distractions for engineers -- who must bring the train to a halt, communicate with conductors and focus on passengers getting on or off. This is especially critical in places like the Chatsworth station, where the signal after the depot is near a point where the main line merges with another track.
Signal locations have been determined largely by factors such as curves, double track switches and the stopping and movement requirements of longer, heavier freight carriers that share track with Metrolink trains, according to the commuter service.
But ideally, key warning signals -- or, at the very least, reminder signs -- should be positioned right after the depot at stations such as Chatsworth, according to the experts.
So-called approach lights -- yellow warnings of a stop signal ahead -- should never be placed before stations such as Chatsworth, said Ron Kaminkow, a veteran engineer and official with Railroad Workers United, a coalition of eight rail employee unions. A 1996 head-on collision in Maryland was blamed largely on distractions caused by a station stop that a commuter train made after it passed an approach signal, records show. Federal investigators concluded that the engineer forgot about the warning, sped away from the station and then was unable to stop at a junction where an approaching Amtrak train had the right of way.
"The physical and mental tasks associated with stopping the train at [the] station provided the primary source of interference," the NTSB concluded in its investigation of the crash. These "attention-demanding tasks" included reducing the throttle, applying the brakes and positioning the train properly in the station, investigators found.
After that accident, the rail company that operated the commuter train and signal system, CSX Transportation, added reminder signs before and at the station where the crash occurred. Safety experts note that research shows human error is reduced when an uninterrupted sequence of warnings or events precedes a crucial task -- such as stopping a train at a red light to let another train pass. The normal sequence of railroad signal lights is intended to alert and remind the engineer and crew of the potential danger ahead, said USC professor Najmedin Meshkati, who studies human behavior related to safety. A station stop between signals increases chances of mistakes, he said."
Should any of this be added (yet) to the article?
Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Should provide link to article to the far more famous 1887 Chatsworth, IL train wreck that killed 85. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887_Great_Chatsworth_train_wreck
bobroberts248 ( talk) 08:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I added this to the article, but someone else took it out. I won't edit war. But I would like to hear other people's opinions on it being in the article or not. How does someone with a prison record get hired for such an important government job?
Sanchez had a prison record - six years prior to the crash, he had spent 90 days in jail for shoplifting. See: Feds to interview railroad brakeman and conductor in Metrolink crash, Los Angeles Daily News, September 30, 2008. Metrolink 111 engineer led solitary life marred by tragedy, Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2008</ref>
Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
OK. Thanks for explaining that. You people have convinced me that it's not relevant. Thanks. Grundle2600 ( talk) 01:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
In 2003, a US federal agency gathered hundreds of pages or research and warnings about the hazards of drivers using mobile phones, but withheld the in part because of fear of angering congress, reports said yesterday. (22 July 2009).
The former head of the National Highway Traffic Safety to the New York Times he was urged not to publish the findings to avoid antagonising members of congress, who warned the agency against lobbying states. He said transit officials had told him he could lose billions in funding if congress thought that the agency had crossed the line into lobbying.
Critics said the failure of the Transportation Department to pursue the role of driving distractions in car crashes has resulted in traffic deaths and allowed the habit of multitasking while driving to grow.
The research findings were obtained by the Centre for Auto Safety and Public Citizen through Freedom of Information. They showed that mobile phone usage by drivers in the US increased from 4 percent in 2000 to 6 percent in 2002. The research said that driver distraction contributed to 25 percent of police-reported traffic crashes.
Presumably what applies to car drivers also applies to train drivers. See The Australian newspaper, 22 July 2009, p9.
Tabletop ( talk) 03:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This might be made into a list.
I've just nominated two of the article's three images - File:Chatsworth train collision 20080913-022716.jpg and File:Chatsworth Train Collision 20080913-022324.jpg - for deletion on Commons as copyright violations. Several images from the NTSB report may be useful as replacements. As a report by an office of the US federal government, the images inside are in the public domain. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 22:29, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
I took the images you removed because of a supposed copyright violation. When I upgraded my gallery software, the CC-BY-SA license link at the bottom of the pages was inadvertently removed. I've restored the license link. You can feel free to continue using the images if you want. Note that the URL of the gallery has changed: https://www.wiggenhorn.org/gallery/v/craig/lapasadena/traincollision/. Thanks! dcraig ( talk) 22:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
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Should the reference to "lawyers" in the lede be changed to ambulance chasers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.137.184.131 ( talk) 06:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
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I believe that this page should instead redirect to Chatsworth train accident, which disambiguates two similarly named train accidents. That would make this redirect consist with the redirect for Chatsworth train collision. Also, it's probably worth considering removing protection here since it's been about 13 years since this was protected, and this doesn't seem to be particularly contentious, looking at this now. Upjav ( talk) 20:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
2008 Chatsworth train collision was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:2008 Chatsworth train collision map. |
Although I agree this collision was probably accidental, nobody knows yet whether this was, in fact, an accident. Matt Fitzpatrick ( talk) 04:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Some articles I've read say there were a confirmed 220 passengers, + 2 workers on board. Can I change it in the article? 69.239.113.102 ( talk) 06:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I hiked back to the collision and took quite a few photographs that are available for use in this article if someone more experienced in the ways of Wikipedia feels they're appropriate: http://midnight.caltech.edu/craig/gallery/v/craig/lapasadena/traincollision/ dcraig ( talk) 11:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The following message appeared at the bottom of the Emergency Alert page on the Metrolink web site the morning afte the incident. I do not know when it was first posted.
TELECONFERENCE MEETING NOTICE - SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA REGIONAL RAIL AUTHORITY BOARD OF DIRECTORS 10:00 A.M., SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 13, 2008
An emergency meeting/closed session of the Southern California Regional Rail Authority Board of Directors by teleconference call to discuss a threat to public services and facilities will be held at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday September 13, 2008 pursuant to California Government Code Sections 54956.5 and 54957.
This notice is suggestive of a terrorist threat. Workers were already investigating the signal equipment while the rescue operation was still underway. Is it possible that there some connection between this notice and the collision the day before? I do not know if this action is unusual for Metrolink since I do not follow its board notices. I do not recall seeing anything like this in the past for MTA, which I do closely follow. Marty -- 76.173.176.162 ( talk) 16:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
New York Daily News [1] and at least one cable news outlet is saying the cause was due to engineer error on the part of the commuter train; the engineer failed to stop at a red signal. -- 24.11.104.84 ( talk) 21:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Currently the article states "the railway signal system is designed to ensure that trains wait on the double track section while a train is proceeding in the other direction on the single track." This may in fact be accurate, which is why I didn't just go ahead and change it, but I'm wondering if it might be clearer to say "...ensure that trains wait on the secondary track while a train is proceeding in the other direction on the main track." My thought here is that "the double track section" refers to both tracks, not just to the secondary track. - Mark Dixon ( talk) 23:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
What was wrong with 2008 Chatsworth train collision? The current name makes it sound like only one train crashed. – Zntrip 03:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I would like to return to 2008 Chatsworth train collision too, but only an admin can do so. – Zntrip 05:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Change it to Chatsworth train crash so it's like Glendale train crash, fools. Nutmegger ( talk) 19:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
(deindent) The following discussion took place on my talk page, but it is more properly put here, so I'm moving the relevent parts. AKRadecki Speaketh 16:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC) You moved Chatsworth train crash to 2008 Chatsworth train collision with the edit summary "This is the preferred method of naming per the Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management". Am I missing something? I can't find any mention of using "collision" at that project. -- NE2 00:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone explain how the engineer of the passenger train could "run a red light" unless the switch connecting the siding to the main track was thrown in the direction to allow such passage. Who threw the switch? Roesser ( talk) 03:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
I know it is a controversial subject with many feeling that the rescuers should have waited (and probably more liking the moment of silence mid-rescue) to have their moment of silence and bringing out the white sheet until after the rescue was finished, but I think it is pertinent to get recognized in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.192.141 ( talk) 19:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
What are you talking about? – Zntrip 22:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
The article mentions that one victim was a cop, that seems adequate. It's not like the cop died saving people, she was on her way home and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, like the other 23 who died. The firefighters making a 9/11 moment out of it just because she happened to be a cop really didn't make much sense, and the article doesn't need to dwell on it any further. - Mark Dixon ( talk) 20:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Death toll rose to 26 today from CNN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.93.31 ( talk) 20:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
There has not been so far any mention of safety devices that would have enforced a stop at the red signal, such as:
While it may be a violation of the rules to conduct a distracting text message with an enthusiast, the driver might have legitimately been responding to a message from the Train Controller to say look out for stone-throwers and been distracted that way, as happened in the Seven Hills railway incident. Tabletop ( talk) 00:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I know this is a sad thought, but hasn't the number of injuries decreased since some of the injured have died (I believe it is two)? – Zntrip 03:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Metrolink left fliers scattered on the seats of its trains this morning for passengers (a common occurrence). This particular one addresses the 9/12 collision. I have scanned and uploaded a copy into PDF here:[ [4]]. This document could be used in the main article or referenced from it if anyone feels it is worth mentioning. Before we do that, however, I need a little help figuring out how to address the copyright issue. Essentially, this is akin to a press release but technically I'm the author as the one who scanned it. My interest is making sure that the usage is correctly described/attributed to Metrolink and that their rights are respected. Any help on this is appreciated.-- CheMechanical ( talk) 19:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Times [5] is also mentioning that he may have been distraught over the February loss of his HIV positive lover/housemate from last February. Although not even close to appropriate for a wiki article, if the story develops with evidence it could be worth mention/reference. B4Ctom1 ( talk) 23:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Sounds to me like the conspiracy theorists are already hard at work.
--
Root Beers (
talk) 20:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
The engineers name was Robert M. Sanchez. He was 46 at the time of his death.
-- Root Beers ( talk) 13:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Changing article from a generic Robert Sanchez to either Robert M. Sanchez or Robert Martin Sanchez. This is for two reasons, all reports from major news organizations Refer to him with the M or Martin in his name. Two, Robert Sanchez with out the middle name or initial is generic and can point to a large group of people, both dead and alive; keeping the M keeps the article specific and detail oriented.
--
Root Beers (
talk) 04:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
I think this should be incorporated somehow, " Freight brakeman in deadly LA train collision sues". – Zntrip 05:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I think there be a new section to describe the safety reforms that have been implemented because of the accident. The California Public Utilities Commission emergency order to temporarily ban the use of cell phones and the Senate bill ( [6]) can be added. – Zntrip 22:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Just spotted this off Wikinews: Witnesses: Doomed train had green light. Sources listed include LA Times, KCBS and IronWood Tech. I had heard rumors to this effect, but haven't had a chance to research them yet. Slambo (Speak) 18:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
A map of the turnout/switch/points is Here. The box outlining the switch is a bit low - the small white rectangle on the left hand side of the track would be the switch-machine/points-motor which changes the switch from normal (straight) to reverse (curved). The cross-hair is on the opposite side of the track to the switch-machine. Tabletop ( talk) 05:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have a picture (or description) of the two signal(s) at the end of the double track?
Were these signals LED or incandescent?
Similarly with the previous signals on the double track be? Tabletop ( talk) 04:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a garbled report from one of the lawyers participating the the case that the signal that the passenger train passed was displaying a "flashing red". This sounds strange. What is going on? By and large, railroad signals do not flash red, except for level crossings which are another matter. [7] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabletop ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I will be preforming the review of this article to see if it meets the good article criteria. This process may take up to seven days. if you have any questions during the review process, for example about any edits I may make, please feel free to contact me on my talk page. Million_Moments ( talk) 15:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
This article has been placed on hold, as a few changes and clarifications need to be made before it can pass GA: -
This article will be watched for seven days, and if no improvement is made in that time maybe failed without warning. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to leave messages and comments here which I will respond to as quickly as possible. Good luck! Million_Moments ( talk) 16:30, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how I missed the changes that had been made to this article, they did not appear in my watchlist. I will go over the article very soon and re-assess it. Million_Moments ( talk) 16:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunatly this article has failed GA due to lack of responce whilst the article has been on hold. Comments above still stand and when have been addressed the article can be renominated. If you feel this review is in error the article can be listed at WP:GAR. Thanks for all your work so far and good luck! Million_Moments ( talk) 16:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Is Chatsworth station on a crossing loop, in which case there is single line on both sides?
Or is Chatsworth station at the end of the double line? Tabletop ( talk) 00:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we include this accident in crossing loop#Accidents at crossing loops? Tabletop ( talk) 00:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Trains magazine of December 2008 has a diagram showing the site of the accident. It is not very helpful as it shows just one red light, and not the arrangement of the several signals that would be involved. The question mentioned above of whether the starting signal has one, two or three lenses is totally unclear. Pictures in that issue of other what appear to be starting signals do seem to show signals with two and three lenses. Tabletop ( talk) 11:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Trains magazine on p13 says that the red signal at the end of the double line may have been dimmer than normal.
It repeats the point that the conductor and three witnesses on the depot platform said that the signal was in fact green, a wrong side failure of some kind. The NTSB disputes this.
Tabletop ( talk) 22:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I have reinstated my edit. Will reference the map on the article talk page, but the truth of my statement was self evident. If interlocking trap points had been in place no collision would have occurred. We would be talking of a derailment.-- Wickifrank ( talk) 13:49, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone else noted this LA Times article: Experts say sequence of signals may have contributed to Metrolink crash, by Robert Lopez and Rich Connell, Los Angeles Times? Summary extracts as follows:
“Several hundred yards and a few seconds before arriving at the Chatsworth station, Metrolink engineer Robert M. Sanchez passed a critical solid yellow signal that should have warned him to stop at the next light about a mile after the depot, according to federal safety investigators.
Placing the yellow light before a station, experts say, creates an opportunity for distractions for engineers -- who must bring the train to a halt, communicate with conductors and focus on passengers getting on or off. This is especially critical in places like the Chatsworth station, where the signal after the depot is near a point where the main line merges with another track.
Signal locations have been determined largely by factors such as curves, double track switches and the stopping and movement requirements of longer, heavier freight carriers that share track with Metrolink trains, according to the commuter service.
But ideally, key warning signals -- or, at the very least, reminder signs -- should be positioned right after the depot at stations such as Chatsworth, according to the experts.
So-called approach lights -- yellow warnings of a stop signal ahead -- should never be placed before stations such as Chatsworth, said Ron Kaminkow, a veteran engineer and official with Railroad Workers United, a coalition of eight rail employee unions. A 1996 head-on collision in Maryland was blamed largely on distractions caused by a station stop that a commuter train made after it passed an approach signal, records show. Federal investigators concluded that the engineer forgot about the warning, sped away from the station and then was unable to stop at a junction where an approaching Amtrak train had the right of way.
"The physical and mental tasks associated with stopping the train at [the] station provided the primary source of interference," the NTSB concluded in its investigation of the crash. These "attention-demanding tasks" included reducing the throttle, applying the brakes and positioning the train properly in the station, investigators found.
After that accident, the rail company that operated the commuter train and signal system, CSX Transportation, added reminder signs before and at the station where the crash occurred. Safety experts note that research shows human error is reduced when an uninterrupted sequence of warnings or events precedes a crucial task -- such as stopping a train at a red light to let another train pass. The normal sequence of railroad signal lights is intended to alert and remind the engineer and crew of the potential danger ahead, said USC professor Najmedin Meshkati, who studies human behavior related to safety. A station stop between signals increases chances of mistakes, he said."
Should any of this be added (yet) to the article?
Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Should provide link to article to the far more famous 1887 Chatsworth, IL train wreck that killed 85. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887_Great_Chatsworth_train_wreck
bobroberts248 ( talk) 08:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I added this to the article, but someone else took it out. I won't edit war. But I would like to hear other people's opinions on it being in the article or not. How does someone with a prison record get hired for such an important government job?
Sanchez had a prison record - six years prior to the crash, he had spent 90 days in jail for shoplifting. See: Feds to interview railroad brakeman and conductor in Metrolink crash, Los Angeles Daily News, September 30, 2008. Metrolink 111 engineer led solitary life marred by tragedy, Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2008</ref>
Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
OK. Thanks for explaining that. You people have convinced me that it's not relevant. Thanks. Grundle2600 ( talk) 01:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
In 2003, a US federal agency gathered hundreds of pages or research and warnings about the hazards of drivers using mobile phones, but withheld the in part because of fear of angering congress, reports said yesterday. (22 July 2009).
The former head of the National Highway Traffic Safety to the New York Times he was urged not to publish the findings to avoid antagonising members of congress, who warned the agency against lobbying states. He said transit officials had told him he could lose billions in funding if congress thought that the agency had crossed the line into lobbying.
Critics said the failure of the Transportation Department to pursue the role of driving distractions in car crashes has resulted in traffic deaths and allowed the habit of multitasking while driving to grow.
The research findings were obtained by the Centre for Auto Safety and Public Citizen through Freedom of Information. They showed that mobile phone usage by drivers in the US increased from 4 percent in 2000 to 6 percent in 2002. The research said that driver distraction contributed to 25 percent of police-reported traffic crashes.
Presumably what applies to car drivers also applies to train drivers. See The Australian newspaper, 22 July 2009, p9.
Tabletop ( talk) 03:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This might be made into a list.
I've just nominated two of the article's three images - File:Chatsworth train collision 20080913-022716.jpg and File:Chatsworth Train Collision 20080913-022324.jpg - for deletion on Commons as copyright violations. Several images from the NTSB report may be useful as replacements. As a report by an office of the US federal government, the images inside are in the public domain. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 22:29, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
I took the images you removed because of a supposed copyright violation. When I upgraded my gallery software, the CC-BY-SA license link at the bottom of the pages was inadvertently removed. I've restored the license link. You can feel free to continue using the images if you want. Note that the URL of the gallery has changed: https://www.wiggenhorn.org/gallery/v/craig/lapasadena/traincollision/. Thanks! dcraig ( talk) 22:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
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Should the reference to "lawyers" in the lede be changed to ambulance chasers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.137.184.131 ( talk) 06:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
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I believe that this page should instead redirect to Chatsworth train accident, which disambiguates two similarly named train accidents. That would make this redirect consist with the redirect for Chatsworth train collision. Also, it's probably worth considering removing protection here since it's been about 13 years since this was protected, and this doesn't seem to be particularly contentious, looking at this now. Upjav ( talk) 20:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)