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2005 Cronulla riots article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
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2005 Cronulla riots was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on December 11, 2011, December 11, 2015, and December 11, 2020. |
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"The violence then spread to Ashfield in Sydney's Inner West, as well as suburbs in Greater Western Sydney, with outbreaks in Bankstown and Punchbowl."[15] The footnote that this sentence points to mentions the suburb of Maroubra. Why are these other suburbs mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.4.26 ( talk) 11:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
When reading this article I checked the references cited and I noticed a distrubing trend. When the references, majority of them from Media websites, stated "people/men of Mediterranean or Middle Eastern appearance" the author of the Cronulla Riots Wiki article had changed it to "Arab or Lebanese people/men". I asked all editors of Wiki that they stay true to their references or not add the references at all. RenziAu ( talk) 02:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Referencing correctly for this subject is something of an oxymoron. What might help this article is the underlying causes of the riots, and that does not seem to be mentioned anywhere. The reigning ALP had instructed the NSW police to go easy on ethnic offenders as they were overly represented in gaols. Essentially the ALP became apologists for Arab criminal gangs. Increasing street violence led white militant groups to retaliate directly. We can see the same type of apologetic correctness emerging now in Europe, where the last series of terrorist attacks have been attributed to mental illness. 203.221.157.17 ( talk) 10:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
The article implies that the problems began with the bashing of the lifesavers. Not so. For many years, large numbers of "young men of Middle Eastern appearance" had been coming to Cronulla intent on causing trouble. This ranged from verbally harassing sunbaking women ("sluts") because they were not modestly dressed, taking over areas in numbers and roughing up any none-ME appearanced person who entered (turf war style), to just picking fights and solving them ME style - bringing in 10 mates to beat up one white Australian. This had been going on for several years. Most of it was unreported in the press because the State Govt was seeking racial harmony at any cost, and the police were asked to "play it down". I worked in the area in those years, and I also attended a gym frequented by local police. They knew what was going on. The locals knew what was going on. It had been going on for *years*. This didn't just come out of nowhere. -- 60.240.68.54 ( talk) 13:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I decided that The article was in to much of a mess to clean properly, so I decided to start again from scratch. I have now copy–pasted my version over the older version. The new version is a bit smaller (3,020 words/42,947 bytes) compared to the older version (5,455 words/57,952 bytes) but is CITEd a lot better, much more NPOV. Lets try and improve the article instead of getting into flame and edit wars. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 08:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for all the great work on a complex article.I'm curious as to the reports of people being forced to kiss the Australian flag, under threats of violence for not doing it.Such a warped patriotism needs study and reporting.Thanks to Sanquis Sanies & all for good work. Should article be frozen by locking to save all the references etc?It's such a hotbed of controversy. Ern Malleyscrub ( talk) 04:12, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Just noticed [1][2] how many references [3] punctuate every sentence [4][5][6][7][8] in this article [9]. Is there not a better way [10][11][12] to present [13] these [14] citations [16][17]? Tim Bennett ( talk) 05:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Should be cleaned-up a bit better. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 15:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
References
It seems odd to me that in the section describing the initial riot that spawned from Cronulla, it offhandedly mentions 26 people being treated for injuries, including 2 who required hospitalisation, while in the section describing the "retalliation" the perpetrators are vigorously described and the victims noted individually. Often this can occur when media reports are limited on an event like attacks in Iraq. However I remember clearly hearing numerous articles quoting victims of the original white rioters, such as an Italian and a South American man confused for Lebanese and assaulted. The fact that these articles are not cited and that the articles describing the small number of assaults later that have been labelled "retalliations" seems to me to be deliberate soap boxing and bias intended to give people a certain emotive response to this article.-- Senor Freebie ( talk) 05:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
You state that a Lebanese immigrant stole the flag from the RSL at Brighton and spent three months in jail as his sentence. He was under 18 so couldn't be indetified in the media (althought he was, repeatedly),Austrlain-born and his sentence was a Youth Justice Conference after he spent 3 months on remand waiting for his trial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.1.92 ( talk) 09:42, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: hamiltonstone ( talk) 01:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC) I will review this. It may take some time, but I thought I would identify one significant issue up front: with the exception of the Strike Force Neil material, the article relies completely on news media reports. It is now over four years since the riots took place, and there are scholarly articles that either directly or indirectly discuss the riots, their media portrayal, the causes etc. I don't think an article about the riots can really be adequate unless it draws on this literature. One example of such an article appears to be listed in the (overly long and cluttered) external links section, but it should be being used as a source. There should not be any media articles listed under external links, nor unreliable sources or minor relevance. A link to a photo gallery is appropriate. hamiltonstone ( talk) 01:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Again, profuse apologies to all for the continued delay. I think that the article as it stands meets GA Standards, particularly the concern over 2b, if this was an FA article I would agree, but since it's "only" GA I'm not overly concerned. I've read and gone through the above sources and they add either; nothing new, or nothing that can be kept within NPOV. An "over-reliance" on media reports is not bad as they contain many of the raw facts that wikipedia strives for. I think that the article as it stands is GA compliant. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 22:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I think I'm done with this article. I'm not overly concerned about the "evolution of Australian socio-cultural life at that time." I tried to add info about what government legislation was passed, but the only ones I could find were not RS. I can't add anything more too this article, if others want too by all means, but my work here is done. Hamilstone can pass or fail this as is.
Sanguis Sanies (
talk) 08:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
No progress is being made, no edits since 12 April. I recommend failing this nomination now. The nominator can ask for community re-assessment at WP:GAR or sort out the outstanding issues and renominate at WP:GAN, where the queue is down to less than 20. –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 00:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually, there are other problems.
Regards, hamiltonstone ( talk) 04:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
At present I think the article is not quite GA standard:
No progress is being made, there have been no edits in 8 days. I recommend that this nomination be failed now. The nominator can take this to WP:GAR for community re-assessment or sort out the outstanding issues and re-nominate at WP:GAN. –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 00:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Note on this -
Australian Prime Minister John Howard condemned the violence describing it as “sickening and deplorable”[44] but denied any racial undertones saying the events were primarily an issue of law and order:[44][46] “The Sydney riots were an example of hoodlums who got out of control.”[45]
If you go to the article cited in #45, it appears that the quote about "hoodlums" actually came from Peter Costello. The way it's written is unclear and could be read as attributing the quote to John Howard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FlyingSquirrel42 ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm new to wikipedia, but I thought it was worth noting the very strange sentences handed down to multiple people involved in the riot. As stated in the article
Yahya Jamal Serhan was arrested over the stabbing of “Dan” on December 12 and charged with affray and maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm and was sentenced to 13 months jail but was immediately released after having already spent nine months in custody awaiting trial.[22][34] Dan was angered and disappointed by the sentence “I’ve got no feeling on the left hand side of my back where the knife broke off.”[34] A second person, a 17-year–old, was also questioned by police.[35]
Marcus Kapitza,[36] 28, was jailed for 12 months after pleading guilty to one charge of riot.[36] On the day of the riot Kapitza wore a singlet with the words “Mohammed was a camel-raping faggot.”[36] He was also involved in the attack at the train station shouting “Fuck off! Fuck off the Lebs.”[36] Brent Lohman,[37] 19, was also charged over the train station assault was sentenced to 11 months in jail.[37]
I'm sure it's worth noting in an encyclopedia that words and writing are considered worse crimes than stabbing someone. Like I said I'm new to this so please go easy but I thought this should be included thanks =) 124.176.145.205 ( talk) 13:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 00:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC) fixed, replaced with current link on NSW Ombudsman's site WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 09:47, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Based on he above comments, I have tidied many of the citations- but it still has a long way to go. Mostly, to improve readibilty, i shifted the citations ot the end of sentences or paragraphs,but have actually removed only one- an opinion piece by Paul Shehan, which only repeated and editorialised coments provieded in other places. There are still around 19 citation of the sixty minutes article- not sure if we actually need any of them... WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 04:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Why is this not in the category "racism in Australia"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.224.17.99 ( talk) 00:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
This largely relates to the guy who was stabbed near Woolooware Golf Club. [1]. dailymail.co.uk, but may also have other details not currently covered in the article. 220 of Borg 11:47, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to compare this article to the 2005 Paris riots article in order to show its many shortfalls. In particular, I came here looking for background and aftermath of this incident, but the wiki article is basically useless in both regards. There's no mention of Lebanese gangs being a growing source of concern of the previous decade, but for some bizarre reason there is a mention that 'westies' often get in to fights at the beach. For those unaware, that's the equivalent of an American saying "rednecks sometimes get in to fights at the beach". It is a very strange thing to put in an encyclopaedia. There is also a lot of use of language such as "a media report states" and "the claim was made" when speaking of things that might damage the image of one ethnicity, but anything in their favour, or damaging to the other ethnicity involved, is merely stated as fact. The talk page talks at length about using good sources - but the article quotes Alan Jones at length. This is a man that made a living from saying stupid things for the purpose of creating controversy.
The background needs to mention the previous growing concerns, particularly in light of resistance from police to admit that gangs were related to ethnicity, suppressing reports to the contrary, leading to policing failures such as the gang rapes that terrorised Sydney for so long, a refusal to work with Police Commissioner Ryan who warned of Lebanese gangs, and the belief that police would not help people if the perpetrators were of a particular ethnicity. Sydney from the late nineties up to this point were terrorised by gangs such as the DK boys; the drive by shooting of a police station; the gang rapists that used taunts such as "you're not human, just an Aussie" and "we wouldn't do this to a real muslim girl, just white sluts"; attempted terrorist attack on the nuclear plant shortly before; actual terrorist attacks by muslims in Bali; and other worldwide events showing the radicalisation of those from the middle east. The aftermath needs to mention the formation of the Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad, and its current focus on Australians fighting for ISIS and other terrorist organisations. I mention their current focus because of the ignorant statements elsewhere on this talk page that 'bogans' are just as bad as the Sydney gang rapists, and that macho surfies are as bad as middle eastern gangs:
"a suicide bomber who killed three people in Baghdad in July. The Islamic State named the bomber as Abu Bakr al-Australi on its Twitter feed. It also includes two men from Sydney, Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar, who have posted images from Syria on Twitter, showing them posing with the heads of executed fighters, holding guns and standing over bloodied bodies."
Frankly, all I got from the wiki article as it stands is "there was a fight, then a riot, because Australia is racist." It's exactly the sort of response that allowed the fear to fester to begin with, and directly led to people believing a violent protest was the only way they could respond. I write this here, and not in the article, because I know it will be deleted. That's Wikipedia - more biased, more irrelevant every year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.26.167 ( talk) 15:08, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
I:If you can be specific about the sections that are biased towards/ against specific races, though, I'll happily change them for you. WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 14:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
"The riots stemmed from tensions between youths from Sydney's Lebanese and white populations. A crowd gathered at Cronulla on the morning of Sunday, 11 December, and, by midday, approximately 5,000 people had gathered near the beach. The gathering began peacefully, but later in the afternoon a man of Middle Eastern appearance was surrounded outside a local hotel and attacked by members of the crowd"
While a later section does mention the bashing of volunteer lifeguards and the 40 year old anglo male by Lebanese gangs, it's completely absent from the introduction, while the attack on a middle eastern appearing man is highlighted. Anyone reading just the introduction would certainly interpret this as meaning that locals or Anglos threw the first punches, which wasn't the case. There was more than "tensions between youths", assaults against lifeguards and other locals had already started immediately prior to the riot. 14.200.91.233 ( talk) 04:03, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
If this is a valid source, it explains and justifies the riots. The events also followed the,
This is the context for the violence. No wonder the crowd was so angry. Harassment of women is completely unacceptable. It explains the violence. What I understand is that Muslim men had been harassing western women, almost irrespective of what they wore for years, calling them sluts and whores. I am sorry. In my brief search, I have not been able to find good references for this in Australia, although I have read and heard this is what led to the riots. Overseas, there are clear references to unrelenting harassment of non-Muslim women, along with rape "on an Industrial scale".
Other related incidents
The article, as written, seems narrow. It does not describe the actions that led up to the Cronula riots.
Thepigdog ( talk) 13:10, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I've removed the text:
References
I think that there might be something in it - the Sydney gang rapes were a possible influence on the riots, and we may have sources that connect the two. My problem is that they haven't been presented yet. The nearest is the Patrick Wood article but the connection it draws is the concept of lebs, rather than saying that the Cronulla riots were more directly connected to the 2000 gang rapes. Do we have any sources available which will connect the two more directly? - Bilby ( talk) 11:11, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2005 Cronulla riots article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
2005 Cronulla riots was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on December 11, 2011, December 11, 2015, and December 11, 2020. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"The violence then spread to Ashfield in Sydney's Inner West, as well as suburbs in Greater Western Sydney, with outbreaks in Bankstown and Punchbowl."[15] The footnote that this sentence points to mentions the suburb of Maroubra. Why are these other suburbs mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.4.26 ( talk) 11:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
When reading this article I checked the references cited and I noticed a distrubing trend. When the references, majority of them from Media websites, stated "people/men of Mediterranean or Middle Eastern appearance" the author of the Cronulla Riots Wiki article had changed it to "Arab or Lebanese people/men". I asked all editors of Wiki that they stay true to their references or not add the references at all. RenziAu ( talk) 02:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Referencing correctly for this subject is something of an oxymoron. What might help this article is the underlying causes of the riots, and that does not seem to be mentioned anywhere. The reigning ALP had instructed the NSW police to go easy on ethnic offenders as they were overly represented in gaols. Essentially the ALP became apologists for Arab criminal gangs. Increasing street violence led white militant groups to retaliate directly. We can see the same type of apologetic correctness emerging now in Europe, where the last series of terrorist attacks have been attributed to mental illness. 203.221.157.17 ( talk) 10:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
The article implies that the problems began with the bashing of the lifesavers. Not so. For many years, large numbers of "young men of Middle Eastern appearance" had been coming to Cronulla intent on causing trouble. This ranged from verbally harassing sunbaking women ("sluts") because they were not modestly dressed, taking over areas in numbers and roughing up any none-ME appearanced person who entered (turf war style), to just picking fights and solving them ME style - bringing in 10 mates to beat up one white Australian. This had been going on for several years. Most of it was unreported in the press because the State Govt was seeking racial harmony at any cost, and the police were asked to "play it down". I worked in the area in those years, and I also attended a gym frequented by local police. They knew what was going on. The locals knew what was going on. It had been going on for *years*. This didn't just come out of nowhere. -- 60.240.68.54 ( talk) 13:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I decided that The article was in to much of a mess to clean properly, so I decided to start again from scratch. I have now copy–pasted my version over the older version. The new version is a bit smaller (3,020 words/42,947 bytes) compared to the older version (5,455 words/57,952 bytes) but is CITEd a lot better, much more NPOV. Lets try and improve the article instead of getting into flame and edit wars. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 08:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for all the great work on a complex article.I'm curious as to the reports of people being forced to kiss the Australian flag, under threats of violence for not doing it.Such a warped patriotism needs study and reporting.Thanks to Sanquis Sanies & all for good work. Should article be frozen by locking to save all the references etc?It's such a hotbed of controversy. Ern Malleyscrub ( talk) 04:12, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Just noticed [1][2] how many references [3] punctuate every sentence [4][5][6][7][8] in this article [9]. Is there not a better way [10][11][12] to present [13] these [14] citations [16][17]? Tim Bennett ( talk) 05:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Should be cleaned-up a bit better. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 15:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
References
It seems odd to me that in the section describing the initial riot that spawned from Cronulla, it offhandedly mentions 26 people being treated for injuries, including 2 who required hospitalisation, while in the section describing the "retalliation" the perpetrators are vigorously described and the victims noted individually. Often this can occur when media reports are limited on an event like attacks in Iraq. However I remember clearly hearing numerous articles quoting victims of the original white rioters, such as an Italian and a South American man confused for Lebanese and assaulted. The fact that these articles are not cited and that the articles describing the small number of assaults later that have been labelled "retalliations" seems to me to be deliberate soap boxing and bias intended to give people a certain emotive response to this article.-- Senor Freebie ( talk) 05:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
You state that a Lebanese immigrant stole the flag from the RSL at Brighton and spent three months in jail as his sentence. He was under 18 so couldn't be indetified in the media (althought he was, repeatedly),Austrlain-born and his sentence was a Youth Justice Conference after he spent 3 months on remand waiting for his trial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.1.92 ( talk) 09:42, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: hamiltonstone ( talk) 01:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC) I will review this. It may take some time, but I thought I would identify one significant issue up front: with the exception of the Strike Force Neil material, the article relies completely on news media reports. It is now over four years since the riots took place, and there are scholarly articles that either directly or indirectly discuss the riots, their media portrayal, the causes etc. I don't think an article about the riots can really be adequate unless it draws on this literature. One example of such an article appears to be listed in the (overly long and cluttered) external links section, but it should be being used as a source. There should not be any media articles listed under external links, nor unreliable sources or minor relevance. A link to a photo gallery is appropriate. hamiltonstone ( talk) 01:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Again, profuse apologies to all for the continued delay. I think that the article as it stands meets GA Standards, particularly the concern over 2b, if this was an FA article I would agree, but since it's "only" GA I'm not overly concerned. I've read and gone through the above sources and they add either; nothing new, or nothing that can be kept within NPOV. An "over-reliance" on media reports is not bad as they contain many of the raw facts that wikipedia strives for. I think that the article as it stands is GA compliant. Sanguis Sanies ( talk) 22:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I think I'm done with this article. I'm not overly concerned about the "evolution of Australian socio-cultural life at that time." I tried to add info about what government legislation was passed, but the only ones I could find were not RS. I can't add anything more too this article, if others want too by all means, but my work here is done. Hamilstone can pass or fail this as is.
Sanguis Sanies (
talk) 08:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
No progress is being made, no edits since 12 April. I recommend failing this nomination now. The nominator can ask for community re-assessment at WP:GAR or sort out the outstanding issues and renominate at WP:GAN, where the queue is down to less than 20. –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 00:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually, there are other problems.
Regards, hamiltonstone ( talk) 04:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
At present I think the article is not quite GA standard:
No progress is being made, there have been no edits in 8 days. I recommend that this nomination be failed now. The nominator can take this to WP:GAR for community re-assessment or sort out the outstanding issues and re-nominate at WP:GAN. –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 00:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Note on this -
Australian Prime Minister John Howard condemned the violence describing it as “sickening and deplorable”[44] but denied any racial undertones saying the events were primarily an issue of law and order:[44][46] “The Sydney riots were an example of hoodlums who got out of control.”[45]
If you go to the article cited in #45, it appears that the quote about "hoodlums" actually came from Peter Costello. The way it's written is unclear and could be read as attributing the quote to John Howard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FlyingSquirrel42 ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm new to wikipedia, but I thought it was worth noting the very strange sentences handed down to multiple people involved in the riot. As stated in the article
Yahya Jamal Serhan was arrested over the stabbing of “Dan” on December 12 and charged with affray and maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm and was sentenced to 13 months jail but was immediately released after having already spent nine months in custody awaiting trial.[22][34] Dan was angered and disappointed by the sentence “I’ve got no feeling on the left hand side of my back where the knife broke off.”[34] A second person, a 17-year–old, was also questioned by police.[35]
Marcus Kapitza,[36] 28, was jailed for 12 months after pleading guilty to one charge of riot.[36] On the day of the riot Kapitza wore a singlet with the words “Mohammed was a camel-raping faggot.”[36] He was also involved in the attack at the train station shouting “Fuck off! Fuck off the Lebs.”[36] Brent Lohman,[37] 19, was also charged over the train station assault was sentenced to 11 months in jail.[37]
I'm sure it's worth noting in an encyclopedia that words and writing are considered worse crimes than stabbing someone. Like I said I'm new to this so please go easy but I thought this should be included thanks =) 124.176.145.205 ( talk) 13:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 00:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC) fixed, replaced with current link on NSW Ombudsman's site WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 09:47, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Based on he above comments, I have tidied many of the citations- but it still has a long way to go. Mostly, to improve readibilty, i shifted the citations ot the end of sentences or paragraphs,but have actually removed only one- an opinion piece by Paul Shehan, which only repeated and editorialised coments provieded in other places. There are still around 19 citation of the sixty minutes article- not sure if we actually need any of them... WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 04:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Why is this not in the category "racism in Australia"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.224.17.99 ( talk) 00:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
This largely relates to the guy who was stabbed near Woolooware Golf Club. [1]. dailymail.co.uk, but may also have other details not currently covered in the article. 220 of Borg 11:47, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to compare this article to the 2005 Paris riots article in order to show its many shortfalls. In particular, I came here looking for background and aftermath of this incident, but the wiki article is basically useless in both regards. There's no mention of Lebanese gangs being a growing source of concern of the previous decade, but for some bizarre reason there is a mention that 'westies' often get in to fights at the beach. For those unaware, that's the equivalent of an American saying "rednecks sometimes get in to fights at the beach". It is a very strange thing to put in an encyclopaedia. There is also a lot of use of language such as "a media report states" and "the claim was made" when speaking of things that might damage the image of one ethnicity, but anything in their favour, or damaging to the other ethnicity involved, is merely stated as fact. The talk page talks at length about using good sources - but the article quotes Alan Jones at length. This is a man that made a living from saying stupid things for the purpose of creating controversy.
The background needs to mention the previous growing concerns, particularly in light of resistance from police to admit that gangs were related to ethnicity, suppressing reports to the contrary, leading to policing failures such as the gang rapes that terrorised Sydney for so long, a refusal to work with Police Commissioner Ryan who warned of Lebanese gangs, and the belief that police would not help people if the perpetrators were of a particular ethnicity. Sydney from the late nineties up to this point were terrorised by gangs such as the DK boys; the drive by shooting of a police station; the gang rapists that used taunts such as "you're not human, just an Aussie" and "we wouldn't do this to a real muslim girl, just white sluts"; attempted terrorist attack on the nuclear plant shortly before; actual terrorist attacks by muslims in Bali; and other worldwide events showing the radicalisation of those from the middle east. The aftermath needs to mention the formation of the Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad, and its current focus on Australians fighting for ISIS and other terrorist organisations. I mention their current focus because of the ignorant statements elsewhere on this talk page that 'bogans' are just as bad as the Sydney gang rapists, and that macho surfies are as bad as middle eastern gangs:
"a suicide bomber who killed three people in Baghdad in July. The Islamic State named the bomber as Abu Bakr al-Australi on its Twitter feed. It also includes two men from Sydney, Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar, who have posted images from Syria on Twitter, showing them posing with the heads of executed fighters, holding guns and standing over bloodied bodies."
Frankly, all I got from the wiki article as it stands is "there was a fight, then a riot, because Australia is racist." It's exactly the sort of response that allowed the fear to fester to begin with, and directly led to people believing a violent protest was the only way they could respond. I write this here, and not in the article, because I know it will be deleted. That's Wikipedia - more biased, more irrelevant every year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.26.167 ( talk) 15:08, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
I:If you can be specific about the sections that are biased towards/ against specific races, though, I'll happily change them for you. WotherspoonSmith ( talk) 14:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
"The riots stemmed from tensions between youths from Sydney's Lebanese and white populations. A crowd gathered at Cronulla on the morning of Sunday, 11 December, and, by midday, approximately 5,000 people had gathered near the beach. The gathering began peacefully, but later in the afternoon a man of Middle Eastern appearance was surrounded outside a local hotel and attacked by members of the crowd"
While a later section does mention the bashing of volunteer lifeguards and the 40 year old anglo male by Lebanese gangs, it's completely absent from the introduction, while the attack on a middle eastern appearing man is highlighted. Anyone reading just the introduction would certainly interpret this as meaning that locals or Anglos threw the first punches, which wasn't the case. There was more than "tensions between youths", assaults against lifeguards and other locals had already started immediately prior to the riot. 14.200.91.233 ( talk) 04:03, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
If this is a valid source, it explains and justifies the riots. The events also followed the,
This is the context for the violence. No wonder the crowd was so angry. Harassment of women is completely unacceptable. It explains the violence. What I understand is that Muslim men had been harassing western women, almost irrespective of what they wore for years, calling them sluts and whores. I am sorry. In my brief search, I have not been able to find good references for this in Australia, although I have read and heard this is what led to the riots. Overseas, there are clear references to unrelenting harassment of non-Muslim women, along with rape "on an Industrial scale".
Other related incidents
The article, as written, seems narrow. It does not describe the actions that led up to the Cronula riots.
Thepigdog ( talk) 13:10, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I've removed the text:
References
I think that there might be something in it - the Sydney gang rapes were a possible influence on the riots, and we may have sources that connect the two. My problem is that they haven't been presented yet. The nearest is the Patrick Wood article but the connection it draws is the concept of lebs, rather than saying that the Cronulla riots were more directly connected to the 2000 gang rapes. Do we have any sources available which will connect the two more directly? - Bilby ( talk) 11:11, 26 June 2018 (UTC)