This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • 1947 Jammu massacres Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:1947 Jammu massacres |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the 1947 Mirpur massacre page were merged into 1947 Jammu massacres on 20 August 2022 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I propose that 1947 Mirpur Massacre be merged into 1947 Jammu massacres. There's not point of having two articles. Or remove the Mirpur massacres from the Jammu massacres. One or the other. PAKHIGHWAY ( talk) 23:06, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I agree. It doesn't make sense to categorically remove any mentions of the Jammu massacre in this article despite the strong connection between the two and then shoehorn a detailed synopsis of the Mirpur massacre in the other article. Von oberstein ( talk) 01:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
I disagree. Certainly until the Jammu massacres stops being a cover up for genocide. The 1947 Jammu Massacres are factually highly inaccurate with unverified sources and relying on the accounts of biased people. They try to cover up the obvious genocide conducted by pakistan army and islamists where the factual outcome is clearly seen with the demographic changes - Indian Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh with practically the same demographics inc muslim population, whilst pakistan/islamists murdered 99% of non-muslim population - especially in pakistan occupied jammu, kashmir, gilgit and baltistan where they number <1% — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:570D:7C01:18FA:DBC4:75C8:1037 ( talk) 17:16, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
The article relies heavily on Snedden's sources, but do not accurately represent what he has to say. For instance, the killing of 20,000 Hindus and Sikhs is something Snedden describes as unconfirmed (in both his cited volumes), whereas we present it as fact. It's patently obvious that in this case at least there was religiously targeted violence (of all sorts, but in Mirpur in this time-frame, of Hindus and Sikhs); but the scope and perpetrators are not something we have consensus on, and a more careful discussion is necessary. I will attempt to fix this soon, but I have real life commitments, and therefore tagging in the hope someone else will address these. Vanamonde ( Talk) 17:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
unreliable sources cannot be used simply because they support content we believe to be accurate.We need better sources - academics who have actually bothered to dig into archives and investigate the ghastly event for what it is, than parrot others. TrangaBellam ( talk) 23:16, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Khalid Hassan has also cited Yusuf Saraf saying there were 20,000 people. We know how many people made it to India. So you can do the math. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:05, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
When Tyler Durden created the 1947 Jammu massacres page, with my moderation, we also included two small sections on Mirpur and Rajouri. Later on, these two pages got created by other parties. All three pages are 'attack pages' as far as I am concerned. None of them describes the context in which the violence occured and the complexities of the violence. Nobody has strong enough a heart to look into these details. The Jammu violence was propagandised by Pakistan and now the Kashmiris. So we hear about it. India didn't propagandise (or even publicise) the Mirpur and Rajouri violence. But the same kind of issues are present in all of them. The Jammu massaares page contains the same kind of 'misrepresentation' of Snedden that you complain about here. In a way, we are representing the popular memory, moderated by scholarly literature.
The Rajouri page can stay, because I have enough sources and I can expand it. But for this page, I don't have any sources. So it is best to delete it, and it can be recreated if and when decent sources become available. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:58, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
When Tyler Durden created the 1947 Jammu massacres page, with my moderation, we also included two small sections on Mirpur and Rajouriand I support restoring the status quo ante. TrangaBellam ( talk) 07:36, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • 1947 Jammu massacres Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:1947 Jammu massacres |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the 1947 Mirpur massacre page were merged into 1947 Jammu massacres on 20 August 2022 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I propose that 1947 Mirpur Massacre be merged into 1947 Jammu massacres. There's not point of having two articles. Or remove the Mirpur massacres from the Jammu massacres. One or the other. PAKHIGHWAY ( talk) 23:06, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I agree. It doesn't make sense to categorically remove any mentions of the Jammu massacre in this article despite the strong connection between the two and then shoehorn a detailed synopsis of the Mirpur massacre in the other article. Von oberstein ( talk) 01:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
I disagree. Certainly until the Jammu massacres stops being a cover up for genocide. The 1947 Jammu Massacres are factually highly inaccurate with unverified sources and relying on the accounts of biased people. They try to cover up the obvious genocide conducted by pakistan army and islamists where the factual outcome is clearly seen with the demographic changes - Indian Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh with practically the same demographics inc muslim population, whilst pakistan/islamists murdered 99% of non-muslim population - especially in pakistan occupied jammu, kashmir, gilgit and baltistan where they number <1% — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:570D:7C01:18FA:DBC4:75C8:1037 ( talk) 17:16, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
The article relies heavily on Snedden's sources, but do not accurately represent what he has to say. For instance, the killing of 20,000 Hindus and Sikhs is something Snedden describes as unconfirmed (in both his cited volumes), whereas we present it as fact. It's patently obvious that in this case at least there was religiously targeted violence (of all sorts, but in Mirpur in this time-frame, of Hindus and Sikhs); but the scope and perpetrators are not something we have consensus on, and a more careful discussion is necessary. I will attempt to fix this soon, but I have real life commitments, and therefore tagging in the hope someone else will address these. Vanamonde ( Talk) 17:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
unreliable sources cannot be used simply because they support content we believe to be accurate.We need better sources - academics who have actually bothered to dig into archives and investigate the ghastly event for what it is, than parrot others. TrangaBellam ( talk) 23:16, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Khalid Hassan has also cited Yusuf Saraf saying there were 20,000 people. We know how many people made it to India. So you can do the math. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 00:05, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
When Tyler Durden created the 1947 Jammu massacres page, with my moderation, we also included two small sections on Mirpur and Rajouri. Later on, these two pages got created by other parties. All three pages are 'attack pages' as far as I am concerned. None of them describes the context in which the violence occured and the complexities of the violence. Nobody has strong enough a heart to look into these details. The Jammu violence was propagandised by Pakistan and now the Kashmiris. So we hear about it. India didn't propagandise (or even publicise) the Mirpur and Rajouri violence. But the same kind of issues are present in all of them. The Jammu massaares page contains the same kind of 'misrepresentation' of Snedden that you complain about here. In a way, we are representing the popular memory, moderated by scholarly literature.
The Rajouri page can stay, because I have enough sources and I can expand it. But for this page, I don't have any sources. So it is best to delete it, and it can be recreated if and when decent sources become available. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:58, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
When Tyler Durden created the 1947 Jammu massacres page, with my moderation, we also included two small sections on Mirpur and Rajouriand I support restoring the status quo ante. TrangaBellam ( talk) 07:36, 29 March 2022 (UTC)