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Archive 1 |
The last sentence says "More Americans would die in this conflict than in any other conflict before or since". I wonder whether it means "white Americans"? The Spanish conquest of Latin America certainly killed more Americans than the US Civil war; I'm not sure about the numbers for the genocide against the Native Americans in North America, but I would expect that these were also higher. Fpahl 14:27, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it refers to U.S. citizens. As for the Native Americans (the ones on U.S. soil, anyway), population loss came more from disease than warfare. Military campaigns against them generally aimed not to wipe them out completely, but to herd them onto reservations. Funnyhat 22:18, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This is another one that needs changing to the better format of the the other election pages. -- (unsigned contribution by 207.228.220.93 14:57, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC))
Should the link called "Southern Democratic" in the tables point to the "Southern Democrats" page rather than the "US Democratic Party" page? Seems to be much more related information on the Southern Democrats page. Testudo aubreii 19:49, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
As long as changes are in order, what abt the American Party results? I am reading John Sherman's memoirs where in 1859 there were 27 American Party members serving in Congress--hardly a 3rd party to ignore! Imagine 27 Libertarians in Congress today if you can... Yet nowhere on this page do I find them mentioned, and I navigated here to see what they were claiming in their platform. The search for American Party 1859 also found no platform. One of the big draws of the Wikipedia is being able to look this stuff up. What gives? Why the omission? translator ( talk) 18:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I just modified or reverted some of Funnyhat's changes to this article, and I should explain them.
I should add that many of the changes that Funnyhat made were quite good — just not all of them.nfdghnbjfhfdkcxjkghsfdjkhgfjkfsadhdsfaghdshjgehdsfhgdsjnhgsjdhbdhjdsagdfshbsnjgsduysdhfkseghsfdajksdfhksdfdfsj
I also made some changes that affected pre-Funnyhat text:
— DLJessup 00:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The section on the Democratic convention seems odd to me. I seem to recall that the fire-eaters walked out in Charleston before they walked out in Baltimore. Our current article gives no sense of this. john k 23:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
shhh dont ell
Why is the graphic depiction of electoral votes skewed? Rarely nowadays does one see democratic votes colored red and and republican votes blue. -- maru (talk) Contribs 20:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Question What is the story on the first named Democrat placed in nomination? This person, whose name raises red flags by itself, is not mentioned in Convention Decisions and Voting Records, p. 66, where the 1860 Democratic National Convention is chronicled. Chronicler3 10:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
"... with Lincoln not even on the ballot in nine Southern states...." I don't really know how voting took place at this time. I didn't think there were printed ballots; I thought party officers distributed tickets with the appopriate candidate names on them to voters. Should this sentence read "with no Republicans in nine Southern states to distribute Lincoln-Hamlin tickets to people at the polls"? Boris B 11:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The Fusion ticket of non-Republicans drew 595,846 votes.
Exactly how did a Fusion ticket work? Was it a mixed slate of electors or an agreement to throw the entire slate behind whichever candidate was dominant? Timrollpickering 14:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
For someone who carried 3 states, there is very little discussion in this article of John Bell, such as what his platform was, what his differences were with the other candidates, why he was able to win 3 states, etc. Nightkey 15:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Bell represented old school conservative Whigs, whose strength was largely in the upper south (in addition to the states he won, Bell came very close in North Carolina and Maryland). john k ( talk) 19:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Bell stands for Union without coercion, sort of like Buchanan, who left the Presidency declaring secession as illegal, but making no overt action to deny extra legal military forces, even before secession resolves in come cases, forts, armories, federal court houses, customs houses or Treasury mints.
http://www.slavenorth.com/newjersey.htm
It would seem to have been "permitted" in some form until 13th amendment -- JimWae ( talk) 19:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Also see Slavery_in_the_United_States#Distribution_of_Slaves -- JimWae ( talk) 19:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
New Jersey is hard to get a handle on. The revolutionaries of 1776 allowed women to vote -- one of the variables the Electoral College had to be open-ended about in the Constitution ... but lots of anit-Lincoln, anti-war sentiment of all kinds of political stripes, not only anti-war (copperhead?) Democrats ... TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 22:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Anyone know why four of New Jersey's electors voted for Lincoln, despite Douglas winning the state? john k ( talk) 19:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
The article says the election occurred November 6. I've just finished reading Fite's The presidential campaign of 1860, which may have said that different states voted in different months in arguing for how apparent the final result of the election was as early as August. I just turned in the book, unfortunately, so I can't check until it's back on the shelf of my library in a few days. Anyone know about this? Albortron ( talk) 00:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
It's quite confusing the way the candidate photos are underlined by colors that don't match the map just below. Can someone either change the map to match the lines, or change the lines to match the map? I don't know if either one is the "official" colors or anything, but they ought to match. Nerrolken ( talk) 17:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Someone needs to figure out how to fix this, John Bell is listed as getting the most electoral votes at the same time as Abraham Lincoln. J'onn J'onzz ( talk) 22:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
young moolock thiz girl look like a man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.159.146.3 ( talk) 15:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
It has been my understanding that Abraham Lincoln did not run as a Republican until 1864, and that in 1860, he ran under the Union (not to be confused with Constitutional Union) Party. Mk5384 ( talk) 21:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Where the article observes that Lincoln won 40% of the popular vote (Results-second paragraph), it should be observed that candidates who declared they would fight to sustain the Union won 70%, and Unionists altogether won 82%.
The 1860 Election was not a contest over organizing caucuses in the House of Representatives. It was about Union, with more or less slavery, whether it would be fought over, and the subsequent numbers that could be sustained in the field during Civil War. The ballots may not have related to bullets 4:1 in literally the same ratios, but over time, numbers mattered. TheVirginiaHistorian 17:17, 17 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk • contribs)
I mean to put 'Lincoln won' at the lead of the 1860 Election 'results' section.
I moved the wonderful Capitol image up by the Electoral College/Congressional/Inauguration lead-in description.
The amazingly good map by counties of election returns is now aligned with the discussion about the NOT monolithic South. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 21:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Here I'm trying to let the narrative show through convention vote charts, so I've added the collapsed chart title as a default. I like the idea of embedding them in the applicable sections, rather than making a footnote link. And I added some descriptive language to the chart titles. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 00:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
The descriptive language for the campaign button is abreviated for space and balance. Lots of innovative things going on in the 1860 Election...
The paragraph on Yancey's tour is added and tied to Douglas' to explain some of the give and take. These speeches were recorded by reporters in the New York-based Associated Press, who then telegraphed them across the country to other papers. The political contest was reported in real time in major cities. in some way, I think his main audience were the readers back home, fair warning and all that...but I don't have an authority yet.
More should be developed...the state elections for state offices and for Representative and Senator could also be held on other dates before the Presidential election...these were seen as bell weathers...these were very much a part of the 'campaign'.
'Storming the Castle' is one of the choicest political cartoons of the period for the presidential race. I was never able to see before what the issues that were supposed to be Douglas' keys to the White House. Wiki Commons gives us the Library of Congress document code to pull it up and read the LOC transcript description. They bear directly on the relationships among the campaigns...
On the "needs citation" on Southern big city/port city Irish support for Douglas...I'm sure we can find a reference...
This is a short section linking the presidential and congressional elections of 1860 to answer the critique of the Wiki project, and to place the strengthening unionist sentiment in context of the six years leading up to the crisis. The analysis is based on Kenneth Martis' monumental work...the historical essay addressing the entire political history of the United States in Congress in the Introduction is superlative...out of print, last time I looked, but available in the reference 'Atlas' section of many libraries. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 17:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
This does not belong in the article, as the topic of this article is the presidential election of 1860. There are articles for the House and Senate elections of 1860 that this information should go into. Section deleted. Vidor ( talk) 02:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Further consolidated that section into the "results" section and tightened up the prose. Also, the article has links to the House and Senate articles in the "see also" section at bottom. Vidor ( talk) 21:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
-Candidate descriptions below each picture in Candidates Galleries are standardized.
The two sections for each nomination can now be consolidated, since the narrative of the nominations are written in the 'galleries' sections, without objection. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 23:22, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Adding buildings where the conventions were held. I've got two wiki commons, one maybe, and one government source.
Charleston Military Hall is still unfound...
In a couple of items I mis-called Douglas, a pro-union man, as a unionist. They have been removed without attribution. I have tried twice to correct the same mislabelled attribution in the adjacent electoral college map which the wiley expunger missed. I checked My talk, but find no notice of suspended editorial privileges. The two sets of errors occured after Aug 6. How can I accommodate the other editor's correct assessment that I messed up after midnight?
Any help? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 23:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
On the edit by Ben76266 of 16 Jun 2011, I am reluctant to change what is in the primary documents. By New Jersey law, on December 7, 1860, Lincoln won 4 electoral votes, Douglas won 3, as found in New Jersey archives, | “Electoral College Minutes”. The U.S. Congress certified the count on February 11, 1861 as found on |“Map: 1860 Election Results”.
I thought editor 96.25.248.210 rendering ½ to ½ was generous since Lincoln won 3/5 of NJ electors. But If we must round one way or the other (per POV?) for editorial economy of style in a chart, can there be some sort of asterisk-note to explain the historical detail?
Please discuss how there were 'Faithless' electors in this 1860 New Jersey elector count, along with references that dispute the findings of the U.S. Congress. There were federal court challenges in Illinois and Texas for the 1960 election, but I have not run across any for 1860. Were there charges of 'faithlessness' in the contemporary newspapers? What can be found in the record?
Apart from the article discussion, California’s 2008 winner-take-all count effectively disenfranchised five millions who would have been more nearly represented with a district plan. Rats, that is SOAPBOX. But I do apologize that New Jersey’s 1860 experiment in Electoral College fairness does somehow disappoint. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 12:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Without discussion, Jayron32 deleted the elections map illustrating the “results” section alongside a discussion of the sectional nature of Lincoln’s electoral victory. The rationale was that the map was badly hand drawn, a finely software-generated map being available to readers elsewhere on the page. Here is a discussion for restoring it.
At the cusp of Civil War over secession by slave states, the range of political positions in the 1860 Presidential Election was (a) Breckinridge: pro-slavery, pro-secession at Lincoln's election, (b) Bell: pro-slavery, pro-secession at federal coercion of the states, (c) Douglas: pro-slavery, war for union, and (d) Lincoln: restrict-slavery, war for union. This is not visually conveyed by green, blue, orange and peach, respectively.
How about (a) red, (b) orange, (c) green and (d) blue? For Civil War buffs, Republican blue aligns with the Union soldier "bluebellies" where uniform dyes stained their stomachs (no offense intended). For academics, the premier scholar of political parties and elections is Kenneth C. Martis whose "Historical Atlas of Political Parties" uses blue for Republicans and red for Democrats, 1789-1989.
In the spirit of collegiality, the Jayron32 editor should provide a well crafted, software-generated election results map reflecting the clear presentation of the “badly hand drawn” placeholder, aligned at the text as it is now. As I understand it from reliable authority, such a contribution would be effortless, not to say trivial for anyone under 30. And, also, it would be greatly appreciated by all us babyboomer geezers. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:59, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
"Among the states which would become the Confederacy, the three big turnout states voted extremes. Texas at 5% Confederate population voted only 20% pro-Union candidates. Kentucky and Missouri with one-fourth the Confederate population claimed, voted a combined 68% for pro-Union candidates. The first six signatory states establishing the Confederacy counted about one-fourth its population. They voted 43% for pro-Union candidates, excluding South Carolina which did not allow a popular vote for President." This is written very awkwardly. I don't really get what it's trying to say; whoever knows for sure what it's getting at, could you please clarify it? 147.226.196.162 ( talk) 03:56, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
There's a disparity between the graphic and the text. The text says Douglas got Missouri's TWELVE EC votes, but the graphic shows Missouri with only NINE EC votes. I don't know enough to be sure which is correct, but someone ought to doublecheck this one. -- (unsigned contribution by 216.184.2.22 19:18, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC))
While we are asking about disparity between graphic and the text, The table in the text shows different vote counts than the graphic at the beginning of the article. Which one is correct? Did Douglas gain as much of the popular vote as the table says and still only walk away with 12 EC votes? And did Breckinridge gain ~500,000 or ~800,000 votes?
99.83.4.255 (
talk) 08:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)PhyreSpirit — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
99.83.4.255 (
talk) 08:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
The Constitutional (Southern) Democrat section is expanded with reliable source, names of the Democratic Party split (a) National (Northern) (regular nomination) Democrats and (b) Constitutional (Southern) (bolter nomination) Democrats. Hope the combination term meets all requirements. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 09:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Should the order in the graphic be according to the popular vote or the electoral college? Jay72091 ( talk) 14:08, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Rather than noting "no objection" for five days, in the sprit of collegiality, I thought to render an excerpt of the infobox as proposed, as sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Hopefully, your browser does not bleed the box into the next section.
The proposal pictured now accepts the undiscussed GoodDay edit, and shows on line five below the portrait "states carried", [state number] greater than 10,000 [votes], [regions where votes found]. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 17:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I've just seen the changes you've made to the infobox, and as things stand I disagree with them. The reason being that the lay reader will have no clue as to what those figures mean. To be frank, and at the risk of sounding rude, I've read the comments you've made here on this talk page about three times, and even I after that still don't have a clue what you're getting at. On top of that, the changes you've made fly against the format established in other presidential election articles. I ask you please try to reword your rationale here as to why you made your changes. Thanks. Redverton ( talk) 17:40, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for the reply. Let me break it up into a few things and respond in turn. 1) You're arguing that candidates should be ordered by popular vote, not by the electoral vote. I'm going to be dismissive and say that's never going to happen. That debate has been done to death on other presidential election articles, and the consensus has always been that since it is the electoral college that wins elections, not the popular vote, candidates should be ordered by their electoral vote. If you want to change that consensus, one presidential election article is not the place, but instead somewhere like the relevant WikiProject, although I would recommend you don't even try as, as stated, this debate has been done to death with exactly the arguments you have used. 2) Yes, most people know what > means. I know what it means. However, the 17: 18>10,000 votes as a whole would have made no sense to me had I not asked you now. And I utterly guarantee if we were to bring in other editors, they would agree it looks confusing. In addition, why 10,000 votes? Why not 5,000? Or 15,000? It seems such an arbitrary number that its inclusion has no worth. In addition, the infobox is meant to be simple - it is a glorified summary - and really if you want to illustrate the spread of the vote for someone like Douglas, that should be included elsewhere in the article: might even be worth a brief note in the intro. But it's not for the infobox. Redverton ( talk) 07:11, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to open this for discussion and input before making any changes, but (IMHO) the editor's use terminology to describe the sub-regions of the South, and the groupings/inclusions of the states within, have some noteable historical issues. Specifically, every previous source I have ever read on this topic -- not tooting my own horn, there have been quite a few -- divide the South of that era -- when considering ecomonics, culture, and politics, into three: Border (Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware), Upper(Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia), and Lower[or "Deep", in some modern day history sources](South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas).
On the contrary, this editor groups them as Upper(Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware}, MIDDLE(Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia and Texas), and Deep(South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana)
Now, the editor does note that what s/he refers to as the Upper South were also known as Border States. And too be fair, what he calls the Deep South, is also sometime used in history books to refer to the 7 states that initially seceded and formed the Confederacy (South Carolina thru Texas). However, the term Deep South was not actually coined until well into the 20th Century. The term used for those states during the election period being discussed was actually "Lower South".
In any event, my main point of contention is the used of the term "Middle States" rather than the proper-era term of "Upper South", and even more, the inclusion of Texas within it. This is baffling, as in historical source or the era and later, agreed that -- at least during that period -- Texas was a Lower South state by every measure the writer uses as well (economic, political, and culturally). If nothing else the percentage by which Texas went for Breckenridge would confirm it at least in the political realm, which is the main theme of the whole article (presidential elections). It was clearly a cotton state, settlers from other states of the Lower South made up a majority of its new settlers, and it was one of the original members of the Confederacy, with its vote for withdrawing being higher percentage wise than any other Lower South state except South Carolina (where the vote was unanimous). It was also the second to last state to be re-admitted. Now, some of the bonds to the Lower South would begin to change after Reconstruction, but the era being discussed is in 1860.
I certainly don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's motives for doing so, but I can't help think -- with all due respect to the original writer -- that at least part of the reason was to inflate the percentages of voters in the Lower South going for candidates other than Brekenridge in the analysis.
Also, I am unsure why Texas is grouped with Kentucky and Missouri as being the "Big Three" in voter turnout in the South. Texas was not nearly top in that regard. Along with Missouri and Kentucky, the other would have been Virginia.
Anyway, again, would welcome comments and inputs before doing any changes! Thanks! TexasReb ( talk) 18:50, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
lack of support within the state. Rather, it was because of the delaying tactics taken by Gov. Houston; alone among other governors of the sub-region, he strongly favored remaining in the Union (at least for the moment, as you say a "wait and see"). Thus, he refused to call the Texas legislature into special session to consider the question (as he knew what the outcome would be). He relented when Texas voters elected representatives to a special "convention" (legal under the Texas Constitution) to meet in Austin. At that point, Houston called the legislature into secession, gambling that he might persuade them to block any separatist action by the secession convention (or whatever their official name was). Well, it was sorta like -- in poker parlance -- a man trying to bluff with a pair of deuces! The legislature not only upheld their decision (to secede), but voted them travel and expense money. All in all, it was probably only because of Houston's delaying tactics that Texas was not the 3rd, perhaps even 2nd, state to secede as, as early as late 1860 (right after South Carolina's secession), many in the Texas legislature and other powers within the state, began to advance the position that Texas should follow immediately. BTW -- if you are interested, you can read more about it in the "Texas in the Civil War" article, under the section "Secession Convention and the Confederacy". I modestly admit to having written quite a bit of it! LOL
I had to go to James Buchanan to find out why he didn't run... seems to me an important issue in the context of this article but he isn't even mentioned here. Rcbutcher ( talk) 11:03, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
I added 'Trigger for the Civil War' section, noting "The election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 was the immediate cause of southern resolutions of secession." The source is Vol. 6 of LSUs History of the South, "The growth of Southern nationalism, 1848-1861", by Avery O. Craven, using pages 391, 394, 396.
This replaces a section written by another editor using the Miller Institute online at the University of Virginia which had been challenged as original research, etc. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 14:17, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
The count should be eleven states disrupted in the Civil War in the 1864 election, not thirteen. Kentucky and Missouri, with full delegations of U.S. members of Congress elected in 1860, 1862 and 1864, had electoral votes counted in 1864. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 15:15, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
This entire paragraph is incredibly POV and definitely written from a white, antebellum perspective. I doubt very much the 2.5 million slaves held during that period would agree with the sentiment of this paragraph, in addition, the resource is from a self proclaimed "Student of Southern History." It is incredibly ethnocentric and inappropriate for an objective article.
"The election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 was the immediate cause of southern resolutions of secession. He was the nominee of the Republican party with an anti-slavery expansion platform, he refused to acknowledge the right to secession, and he would not yield federal property within Southern states. Southerners desired the break up of the Union or came to accept it as necessary for their self-respect and the regard of their neighbors. The alternatives in a time of action brought on by the fire-eaters were submission or secession. The South was supposed to be turned pitiable. Added to economic and political inferiority were the accusations of immorality and social backwardness. Lincoln's election meant the South would suffer a reduced status of permanent minority, subject to the will of a majority, they thought, "whose purpose was the alternation of their social structure." This reduction of political contest which had before met with compromise came to the value-laden, simple terms of "right" of northern anti-slavery versus "rights" of southern slavery extension. These terms placed issues beyond the democratic process, and they placed "the great masses of men, North and South, helpless before the drift into war."
24.86.234.175 ( talk) 00:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)parkertherepal28
The unexplained deletion of informative captions identifying candidates is not justified by an assertion that the vandalism will be widespread throughout the presidential election series without discussion. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 15:22, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:1860 United States presidential election/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
This has incorrect and incomplete information. It does not list election results of the 1860 Congressional election. |
Last edited at 21:17, 8 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 16:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
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I removed Fitzpatrick from the infobox, because (unlike Eagleton in 1972) he never accepted his party's vice presidential nomination. GoodDay ( talk) 16:02, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
According to the article, it mentions that three states ( New York, New Jersey and Rhode Island) all had anti-Lincoln votes combined into fusion tickets. However, both the 1860 election in Pennsylvania article and the results by county map show that Pennsylvania also had an anti-Lincoln fusion ticket. With that, the were four states with fusion tickets and not just three. However, Lincoln ended up winning both Pennsylvania and Rhode Island by decent margins while also narrowly winning New York and winning four of the seven electoral votes from New Jersey despite losing the popular vote to the Democrats.
I was the one who created the 1860 election in New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island articles by the way. I just wanted to clear up some confusion. -- JCC the Alternate Historian ( talk) 15:50, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I can understand the desire to have them ordered by the results but the result is the Democrat split is badly explained with the breakaway faction appearing before the actual split. I'm reordering the article to put the split before Breckenridge. Timrollpickering ( talk) 20:01, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
This article has the title "1860 United States Presidential Election", 1860 United States Presidential Election links here, and has the 1860 presidential candidates. However, the rest of it appears to be on the 1840 election. Could this please be sorted out at some point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by EPicmAx4 ( talk • contribs) 02:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SSkamai.
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I added liberals to the opening paragraph. 2601:582:C480:BCD0:71EF:1EAD:6DBA:73B7 ( talk) 12:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
In the introduction, this article states that Lincoln was "absent from the ballot in ten slave states." This is a very misleading statement, as it implies that he was actively excluded from the ballot, but this is not how ballots worked in 1860. Before 1888, ballots did not have a list of candidates; the political party of each candidate would distribute ballots within that candidates name, and voters would put that ballot, or a paper with a candidates name written in by that voter, in the ballot box.
I use a VPN, so I am not allowed to edit articles. I propose an edit be made to the introduction, either removing this statement or substituting it with something along the lines of "without recieving any known votes in ten slave states," which would be true. 2601:805:8100:E2C0:2185:42DE:60E5:B578 ( talk) 18:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
The last sentence says "More Americans would die in this conflict than in any other conflict before or since". I wonder whether it means "white Americans"? The Spanish conquest of Latin America certainly killed more Americans than the US Civil war; I'm not sure about the numbers for the genocide against the Native Americans in North America, but I would expect that these were also higher. Fpahl 14:27, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it refers to U.S. citizens. As for the Native Americans (the ones on U.S. soil, anyway), population loss came more from disease than warfare. Military campaigns against them generally aimed not to wipe them out completely, but to herd them onto reservations. Funnyhat 22:18, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This is another one that needs changing to the better format of the the other election pages. -- (unsigned contribution by 207.228.220.93 14:57, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC))
Should the link called "Southern Democratic" in the tables point to the "Southern Democrats" page rather than the "US Democratic Party" page? Seems to be much more related information on the Southern Democrats page. Testudo aubreii 19:49, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
As long as changes are in order, what abt the American Party results? I am reading John Sherman's memoirs where in 1859 there were 27 American Party members serving in Congress--hardly a 3rd party to ignore! Imagine 27 Libertarians in Congress today if you can... Yet nowhere on this page do I find them mentioned, and I navigated here to see what they were claiming in their platform. The search for American Party 1859 also found no platform. One of the big draws of the Wikipedia is being able to look this stuff up. What gives? Why the omission? translator ( talk) 18:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I just modified or reverted some of Funnyhat's changes to this article, and I should explain them.
I should add that many of the changes that Funnyhat made were quite good — just not all of them.nfdghnbjfhfdkcxjkghsfdjkhgfjkfsadhdsfaghdshjgehdsfhgdsjnhgsjdhbdhjdsagdfshbsnjgsduysdhfkseghsfdajksdfhksdfdfsj
I also made some changes that affected pre-Funnyhat text:
— DLJessup 00:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The section on the Democratic convention seems odd to me. I seem to recall that the fire-eaters walked out in Charleston before they walked out in Baltimore. Our current article gives no sense of this. john k 23:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
shhh dont ell
Why is the graphic depiction of electoral votes skewed? Rarely nowadays does one see democratic votes colored red and and republican votes blue. -- maru (talk) Contribs 20:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Question What is the story on the first named Democrat placed in nomination? This person, whose name raises red flags by itself, is not mentioned in Convention Decisions and Voting Records, p. 66, where the 1860 Democratic National Convention is chronicled. Chronicler3 10:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
"... with Lincoln not even on the ballot in nine Southern states...." I don't really know how voting took place at this time. I didn't think there were printed ballots; I thought party officers distributed tickets with the appopriate candidate names on them to voters. Should this sentence read "with no Republicans in nine Southern states to distribute Lincoln-Hamlin tickets to people at the polls"? Boris B 11:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The Fusion ticket of non-Republicans drew 595,846 votes.
Exactly how did a Fusion ticket work? Was it a mixed slate of electors or an agreement to throw the entire slate behind whichever candidate was dominant? Timrollpickering 14:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
For someone who carried 3 states, there is very little discussion in this article of John Bell, such as what his platform was, what his differences were with the other candidates, why he was able to win 3 states, etc. Nightkey 15:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Bell represented old school conservative Whigs, whose strength was largely in the upper south (in addition to the states he won, Bell came very close in North Carolina and Maryland). john k ( talk) 19:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Bell stands for Union without coercion, sort of like Buchanan, who left the Presidency declaring secession as illegal, but making no overt action to deny extra legal military forces, even before secession resolves in come cases, forts, armories, federal court houses, customs houses or Treasury mints.
http://www.slavenorth.com/newjersey.htm
It would seem to have been "permitted" in some form until 13th amendment -- JimWae ( talk) 19:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Also see Slavery_in_the_United_States#Distribution_of_Slaves -- JimWae ( talk) 19:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
New Jersey is hard to get a handle on. The revolutionaries of 1776 allowed women to vote -- one of the variables the Electoral College had to be open-ended about in the Constitution ... but lots of anit-Lincoln, anti-war sentiment of all kinds of political stripes, not only anti-war (copperhead?) Democrats ... TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 22:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Anyone know why four of New Jersey's electors voted for Lincoln, despite Douglas winning the state? john k ( talk) 19:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
The article says the election occurred November 6. I've just finished reading Fite's The presidential campaign of 1860, which may have said that different states voted in different months in arguing for how apparent the final result of the election was as early as August. I just turned in the book, unfortunately, so I can't check until it's back on the shelf of my library in a few days. Anyone know about this? Albortron ( talk) 00:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
It's quite confusing the way the candidate photos are underlined by colors that don't match the map just below. Can someone either change the map to match the lines, or change the lines to match the map? I don't know if either one is the "official" colors or anything, but they ought to match. Nerrolken ( talk) 17:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Someone needs to figure out how to fix this, John Bell is listed as getting the most electoral votes at the same time as Abraham Lincoln. J'onn J'onzz ( talk) 22:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
young moolock thiz girl look like a man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.159.146.3 ( talk) 15:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
It has been my understanding that Abraham Lincoln did not run as a Republican until 1864, and that in 1860, he ran under the Union (not to be confused with Constitutional Union) Party. Mk5384 ( talk) 21:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Where the article observes that Lincoln won 40% of the popular vote (Results-second paragraph), it should be observed that candidates who declared they would fight to sustain the Union won 70%, and Unionists altogether won 82%.
The 1860 Election was not a contest over organizing caucuses in the House of Representatives. It was about Union, with more or less slavery, whether it would be fought over, and the subsequent numbers that could be sustained in the field during Civil War. The ballots may not have related to bullets 4:1 in literally the same ratios, but over time, numbers mattered. TheVirginiaHistorian 17:17, 17 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk • contribs)
I mean to put 'Lincoln won' at the lead of the 1860 Election 'results' section.
I moved the wonderful Capitol image up by the Electoral College/Congressional/Inauguration lead-in description.
The amazingly good map by counties of election returns is now aligned with the discussion about the NOT monolithic South. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 21:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Here I'm trying to let the narrative show through convention vote charts, so I've added the collapsed chart title as a default. I like the idea of embedding them in the applicable sections, rather than making a footnote link. And I added some descriptive language to the chart titles. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 00:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
The descriptive language for the campaign button is abreviated for space and balance. Lots of innovative things going on in the 1860 Election...
The paragraph on Yancey's tour is added and tied to Douglas' to explain some of the give and take. These speeches were recorded by reporters in the New York-based Associated Press, who then telegraphed them across the country to other papers. The political contest was reported in real time in major cities. in some way, I think his main audience were the readers back home, fair warning and all that...but I don't have an authority yet.
More should be developed...the state elections for state offices and for Representative and Senator could also be held on other dates before the Presidential election...these were seen as bell weathers...these were very much a part of the 'campaign'.
'Storming the Castle' is one of the choicest political cartoons of the period for the presidential race. I was never able to see before what the issues that were supposed to be Douglas' keys to the White House. Wiki Commons gives us the Library of Congress document code to pull it up and read the LOC transcript description. They bear directly on the relationships among the campaigns...
On the "needs citation" on Southern big city/port city Irish support for Douglas...I'm sure we can find a reference...
This is a short section linking the presidential and congressional elections of 1860 to answer the critique of the Wiki project, and to place the strengthening unionist sentiment in context of the six years leading up to the crisis. The analysis is based on Kenneth Martis' monumental work...the historical essay addressing the entire political history of the United States in Congress in the Introduction is superlative...out of print, last time I looked, but available in the reference 'Atlas' section of many libraries. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 17:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
This does not belong in the article, as the topic of this article is the presidential election of 1860. There are articles for the House and Senate elections of 1860 that this information should go into. Section deleted. Vidor ( talk) 02:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Further consolidated that section into the "results" section and tightened up the prose. Also, the article has links to the House and Senate articles in the "see also" section at bottom. Vidor ( talk) 21:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
-Candidate descriptions below each picture in Candidates Galleries are standardized.
The two sections for each nomination can now be consolidated, since the narrative of the nominations are written in the 'galleries' sections, without objection. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 23:22, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Adding buildings where the conventions were held. I've got two wiki commons, one maybe, and one government source.
Charleston Military Hall is still unfound...
In a couple of items I mis-called Douglas, a pro-union man, as a unionist. They have been removed without attribution. I have tried twice to correct the same mislabelled attribution in the adjacent electoral college map which the wiley expunger missed. I checked My talk, but find no notice of suspended editorial privileges. The two sets of errors occured after Aug 6. How can I accommodate the other editor's correct assessment that I messed up after midnight?
Any help? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 23:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
On the edit by Ben76266 of 16 Jun 2011, I am reluctant to change what is in the primary documents. By New Jersey law, on December 7, 1860, Lincoln won 4 electoral votes, Douglas won 3, as found in New Jersey archives, | “Electoral College Minutes”. The U.S. Congress certified the count on February 11, 1861 as found on |“Map: 1860 Election Results”.
I thought editor 96.25.248.210 rendering ½ to ½ was generous since Lincoln won 3/5 of NJ electors. But If we must round one way or the other (per POV?) for editorial economy of style in a chart, can there be some sort of asterisk-note to explain the historical detail?
Please discuss how there were 'Faithless' electors in this 1860 New Jersey elector count, along with references that dispute the findings of the U.S. Congress. There were federal court challenges in Illinois and Texas for the 1960 election, but I have not run across any for 1860. Were there charges of 'faithlessness' in the contemporary newspapers? What can be found in the record?
Apart from the article discussion, California’s 2008 winner-take-all count effectively disenfranchised five millions who would have been more nearly represented with a district plan. Rats, that is SOAPBOX. But I do apologize that New Jersey’s 1860 experiment in Electoral College fairness does somehow disappoint. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 12:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Without discussion, Jayron32 deleted the elections map illustrating the “results” section alongside a discussion of the sectional nature of Lincoln’s electoral victory. The rationale was that the map was badly hand drawn, a finely software-generated map being available to readers elsewhere on the page. Here is a discussion for restoring it.
At the cusp of Civil War over secession by slave states, the range of political positions in the 1860 Presidential Election was (a) Breckinridge: pro-slavery, pro-secession at Lincoln's election, (b) Bell: pro-slavery, pro-secession at federal coercion of the states, (c) Douglas: pro-slavery, war for union, and (d) Lincoln: restrict-slavery, war for union. This is not visually conveyed by green, blue, orange and peach, respectively.
How about (a) red, (b) orange, (c) green and (d) blue? For Civil War buffs, Republican blue aligns with the Union soldier "bluebellies" where uniform dyes stained their stomachs (no offense intended). For academics, the premier scholar of political parties and elections is Kenneth C. Martis whose "Historical Atlas of Political Parties" uses blue for Republicans and red for Democrats, 1789-1989.
In the spirit of collegiality, the Jayron32 editor should provide a well crafted, software-generated election results map reflecting the clear presentation of the “badly hand drawn” placeholder, aligned at the text as it is now. As I understand it from reliable authority, such a contribution would be effortless, not to say trivial for anyone under 30. And, also, it would be greatly appreciated by all us babyboomer geezers. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:59, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
"Among the states which would become the Confederacy, the three big turnout states voted extremes. Texas at 5% Confederate population voted only 20% pro-Union candidates. Kentucky and Missouri with one-fourth the Confederate population claimed, voted a combined 68% for pro-Union candidates. The first six signatory states establishing the Confederacy counted about one-fourth its population. They voted 43% for pro-Union candidates, excluding South Carolina which did not allow a popular vote for President." This is written very awkwardly. I don't really get what it's trying to say; whoever knows for sure what it's getting at, could you please clarify it? 147.226.196.162 ( talk) 03:56, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
There's a disparity between the graphic and the text. The text says Douglas got Missouri's TWELVE EC votes, but the graphic shows Missouri with only NINE EC votes. I don't know enough to be sure which is correct, but someone ought to doublecheck this one. -- (unsigned contribution by 216.184.2.22 19:18, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC))
While we are asking about disparity between graphic and the text, The table in the text shows different vote counts than the graphic at the beginning of the article. Which one is correct? Did Douglas gain as much of the popular vote as the table says and still only walk away with 12 EC votes? And did Breckinridge gain ~500,000 or ~800,000 votes?
99.83.4.255 (
talk) 08:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)PhyreSpirit — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
99.83.4.255 (
talk) 08:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
The Constitutional (Southern) Democrat section is expanded with reliable source, names of the Democratic Party split (a) National (Northern) (regular nomination) Democrats and (b) Constitutional (Southern) (bolter nomination) Democrats. Hope the combination term meets all requirements. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 09:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Should the order in the graphic be according to the popular vote or the electoral college? Jay72091 ( talk) 14:08, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Rather than noting "no objection" for five days, in the sprit of collegiality, I thought to render an excerpt of the infobox as proposed, as sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Hopefully, your browser does not bleed the box into the next section.
The proposal pictured now accepts the undiscussed GoodDay edit, and shows on line five below the portrait "states carried", [state number] greater than 10,000 [votes], [regions where votes found]. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 17:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I've just seen the changes you've made to the infobox, and as things stand I disagree with them. The reason being that the lay reader will have no clue as to what those figures mean. To be frank, and at the risk of sounding rude, I've read the comments you've made here on this talk page about three times, and even I after that still don't have a clue what you're getting at. On top of that, the changes you've made fly against the format established in other presidential election articles. I ask you please try to reword your rationale here as to why you made your changes. Thanks. Redverton ( talk) 17:40, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for the reply. Let me break it up into a few things and respond in turn. 1) You're arguing that candidates should be ordered by popular vote, not by the electoral vote. I'm going to be dismissive and say that's never going to happen. That debate has been done to death on other presidential election articles, and the consensus has always been that since it is the electoral college that wins elections, not the popular vote, candidates should be ordered by their electoral vote. If you want to change that consensus, one presidential election article is not the place, but instead somewhere like the relevant WikiProject, although I would recommend you don't even try as, as stated, this debate has been done to death with exactly the arguments you have used. 2) Yes, most people know what > means. I know what it means. However, the 17: 18>10,000 votes as a whole would have made no sense to me had I not asked you now. And I utterly guarantee if we were to bring in other editors, they would agree it looks confusing. In addition, why 10,000 votes? Why not 5,000? Or 15,000? It seems such an arbitrary number that its inclusion has no worth. In addition, the infobox is meant to be simple - it is a glorified summary - and really if you want to illustrate the spread of the vote for someone like Douglas, that should be included elsewhere in the article: might even be worth a brief note in the intro. But it's not for the infobox. Redverton ( talk) 07:11, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to open this for discussion and input before making any changes, but (IMHO) the editor's use terminology to describe the sub-regions of the South, and the groupings/inclusions of the states within, have some noteable historical issues. Specifically, every previous source I have ever read on this topic -- not tooting my own horn, there have been quite a few -- divide the South of that era -- when considering ecomonics, culture, and politics, into three: Border (Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware), Upper(Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia), and Lower[or "Deep", in some modern day history sources](South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas).
On the contrary, this editor groups them as Upper(Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware}, MIDDLE(Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia and Texas), and Deep(South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana)
Now, the editor does note that what s/he refers to as the Upper South were also known as Border States. And too be fair, what he calls the Deep South, is also sometime used in history books to refer to the 7 states that initially seceded and formed the Confederacy (South Carolina thru Texas). However, the term Deep South was not actually coined until well into the 20th Century. The term used for those states during the election period being discussed was actually "Lower South".
In any event, my main point of contention is the used of the term "Middle States" rather than the proper-era term of "Upper South", and even more, the inclusion of Texas within it. This is baffling, as in historical source or the era and later, agreed that -- at least during that period -- Texas was a Lower South state by every measure the writer uses as well (economic, political, and culturally). If nothing else the percentage by which Texas went for Breckenridge would confirm it at least in the political realm, which is the main theme of the whole article (presidential elections). It was clearly a cotton state, settlers from other states of the Lower South made up a majority of its new settlers, and it was one of the original members of the Confederacy, with its vote for withdrawing being higher percentage wise than any other Lower South state except South Carolina (where the vote was unanimous). It was also the second to last state to be re-admitted. Now, some of the bonds to the Lower South would begin to change after Reconstruction, but the era being discussed is in 1860.
I certainly don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's motives for doing so, but I can't help think -- with all due respect to the original writer -- that at least part of the reason was to inflate the percentages of voters in the Lower South going for candidates other than Brekenridge in the analysis.
Also, I am unsure why Texas is grouped with Kentucky and Missouri as being the "Big Three" in voter turnout in the South. Texas was not nearly top in that regard. Along with Missouri and Kentucky, the other would have been Virginia.
Anyway, again, would welcome comments and inputs before doing any changes! Thanks! TexasReb ( talk) 18:50, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
lack of support within the state. Rather, it was because of the delaying tactics taken by Gov. Houston; alone among other governors of the sub-region, he strongly favored remaining in the Union (at least for the moment, as you say a "wait and see"). Thus, he refused to call the Texas legislature into special session to consider the question (as he knew what the outcome would be). He relented when Texas voters elected representatives to a special "convention" (legal under the Texas Constitution) to meet in Austin. At that point, Houston called the legislature into secession, gambling that he might persuade them to block any separatist action by the secession convention (or whatever their official name was). Well, it was sorta like -- in poker parlance -- a man trying to bluff with a pair of deuces! The legislature not only upheld their decision (to secede), but voted them travel and expense money. All in all, it was probably only because of Houston's delaying tactics that Texas was not the 3rd, perhaps even 2nd, state to secede as, as early as late 1860 (right after South Carolina's secession), many in the Texas legislature and other powers within the state, began to advance the position that Texas should follow immediately. BTW -- if you are interested, you can read more about it in the "Texas in the Civil War" article, under the section "Secession Convention and the Confederacy". I modestly admit to having written quite a bit of it! LOL
I had to go to James Buchanan to find out why he didn't run... seems to me an important issue in the context of this article but he isn't even mentioned here. Rcbutcher ( talk) 11:03, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
I added 'Trigger for the Civil War' section, noting "The election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 was the immediate cause of southern resolutions of secession." The source is Vol. 6 of LSUs History of the South, "The growth of Southern nationalism, 1848-1861", by Avery O. Craven, using pages 391, 394, 396.
This replaces a section written by another editor using the Miller Institute online at the University of Virginia which had been challenged as original research, etc. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 14:17, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
The count should be eleven states disrupted in the Civil War in the 1864 election, not thirteen. Kentucky and Missouri, with full delegations of U.S. members of Congress elected in 1860, 1862 and 1864, had electoral votes counted in 1864. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 15:15, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
This entire paragraph is incredibly POV and definitely written from a white, antebellum perspective. I doubt very much the 2.5 million slaves held during that period would agree with the sentiment of this paragraph, in addition, the resource is from a self proclaimed "Student of Southern History." It is incredibly ethnocentric and inappropriate for an objective article.
"The election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 was the immediate cause of southern resolutions of secession. He was the nominee of the Republican party with an anti-slavery expansion platform, he refused to acknowledge the right to secession, and he would not yield federal property within Southern states. Southerners desired the break up of the Union or came to accept it as necessary for their self-respect and the regard of their neighbors. The alternatives in a time of action brought on by the fire-eaters were submission or secession. The South was supposed to be turned pitiable. Added to economic and political inferiority were the accusations of immorality and social backwardness. Lincoln's election meant the South would suffer a reduced status of permanent minority, subject to the will of a majority, they thought, "whose purpose was the alternation of their social structure." This reduction of political contest which had before met with compromise came to the value-laden, simple terms of "right" of northern anti-slavery versus "rights" of southern slavery extension. These terms placed issues beyond the democratic process, and they placed "the great masses of men, North and South, helpless before the drift into war."
24.86.234.175 ( talk) 00:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)parkertherepal28
The unexplained deletion of informative captions identifying candidates is not justified by an assertion that the vandalism will be widespread throughout the presidential election series without discussion. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 15:22, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:1860 United States presidential election/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
This has incorrect and incomplete information. It does not list election results of the 1860 Congressional election. |
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I removed Fitzpatrick from the infobox, because (unlike Eagleton in 1972) he never accepted his party's vice presidential nomination. GoodDay ( talk) 16:02, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
According to the article, it mentions that three states ( New York, New Jersey and Rhode Island) all had anti-Lincoln votes combined into fusion tickets. However, both the 1860 election in Pennsylvania article and the results by county map show that Pennsylvania also had an anti-Lincoln fusion ticket. With that, the were four states with fusion tickets and not just three. However, Lincoln ended up winning both Pennsylvania and Rhode Island by decent margins while also narrowly winning New York and winning four of the seven electoral votes from New Jersey despite losing the popular vote to the Democrats.
I was the one who created the 1860 election in New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island articles by the way. I just wanted to clear up some confusion. -- JCC the Alternate Historian ( talk) 15:50, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I can understand the desire to have them ordered by the results but the result is the Democrat split is badly explained with the breakaway faction appearing before the actual split. I'm reordering the article to put the split before Breckenridge. Timrollpickering ( talk) 20:01, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
This article has the title "1860 United States Presidential Election", 1860 United States Presidential Election links here, and has the 1860 presidential candidates. However, the rest of it appears to be on the 1840 election. Could this please be sorted out at some point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by EPicmAx4 ( talk • contribs) 02:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SSkamai.
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I added liberals to the opening paragraph. 2601:582:C480:BCD0:71EF:1EAD:6DBA:73B7 ( talk) 12:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
In the introduction, this article states that Lincoln was "absent from the ballot in ten slave states." This is a very misleading statement, as it implies that he was actively excluded from the ballot, but this is not how ballots worked in 1860. Before 1888, ballots did not have a list of candidates; the political party of each candidate would distribute ballots within that candidates name, and voters would put that ballot, or a paper with a candidates name written in by that voter, in the ballot box.
I use a VPN, so I am not allowed to edit articles. I propose an edit be made to the introduction, either removing this statement or substituting it with something along the lines of "without recieving any known votes in ten slave states," which would be true. 2601:805:8100:E2C0:2185:42DE:60E5:B578 ( talk) 18:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)