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This article appears to be based on Jung's very imperfect understanding of Zosimus: imperfect both becuase of the bais of Jung's interpretation and because of its ignorance of the extant corups of Zosimus' works. In fact there survives in the original Greek a complete treatise by Zosimus, On the Letter Omega, which is not mentioned in the article. To describe Zosimus as a 'Gnsoic mystic' after the precision of understanding of what Gnosticism is and is not in the light of the last half century of scholarship is laughable. The whole article needs to be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.49.132 ( talk • contribs)
I think that the vision section could be shortened up. J8079s ( talk) 22:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
He is referenced in Picatrix, the most influential book for western magic. Perhaps this could be included somewhere in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.244.136 ( talk) 05:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I read this article and found myself wondering whether we have two people confused together here. The first is the alchemical writer; the second is the author of the Nag Hammadi gnostic text?
I've never researched it, but I ask the question. Box2112 ( talk) 14:14, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
This is what the sources say:
Zosimos of Panopolis was perhaps the most important of the Graeco-Egyptian alchemists.( Sherwood Taylor, F. (1937). "The Visions Of Zosimos". Ambix. 1 (1): 88–92. doi: 10.1179/amb.1937.1.1.88. p. 88)
The Egyptian alchemist Zosimos of Panopolis was a pivotal figure in the history of Greek alchemy.(Stolzenberg, Daniel (1999). "Unpropitious Tinctures: Alchemy, Astrology & Gnosis According to Zosimos of Panopolis". Archives Internationales d'histoire des sciences. 49 (142): 3–31. p. 3)
These writings come from a Greco-Egyptian alchemist [...]: Zosimos of Panopolis.( Principe, Lawrence M. (2013). The Secrets of Alchemy. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0226103792. p. 14)
[...] in a Zosimos text just recently identified, the Egyptian admits freely that [...]( Principe 2013, p. 17)
Now the sources also standardly speak of Greek alchemy
(e.g., the same
Principe 2013, p. 15 as quoted above), but Bink Hallum describes scholarly practice well when he notes:
When I use the terms Greek, Syriac and Arabic to describe authors and traditions, I mean to describe only the language in which the author so described predominately wrote, or the language in which the texts that make up a tradition are written. I do not mean to imply that the authors who contributed to or those who worked within a certain tradition were ethnically Greeks, Syrians or Arabs; the so-called Greek alchemists were mostly natives of Egypt of Hellenic, Egyptian and Jewish descent and one of the foremost so-called Arab alchemists, al-Rāzī, was of Persian origins. (Hallum, Benjamin C. (2008). Zosimus Arabus: The Reception of Zosimos of Panopolis in the Arabic/Islamic World (PhD diss.). Warburg Institute. p. 17)
In this sense, you will find also Zosimos sometimes described as a Greek alchemist, but this only refers to the language of his writings. As
Principe 2013, p. 23 mentions, Greek was the language both of the earliest alchemical texts and of literate Greco-Roman Egypt.
When it comes to Zosimos actual background, Garth Fowden notes that almost no information has survived about the external incidents of his life.
(
Fowden, Garth (1986).
The Egyptian Hermes: a Historical Approach to the Late Pagan Mind.
Cambridge University Press.
ISBN
0-521-32583-8.
OCLC
13333446. p. 120). In other words, his ethnicity, like most things relating to his life, is unknown. All sources cited agree, however, that he was born in
Panopolis (Akhmim) and that he wrote in Greek, hence why they call him "Egyptian" or "Greco-Egyptian".
Given all of the above, I see no reason to call Zosimos a "Greek" or "Egyptian-born Greek" alchemist in the lead. I prefer the term "Greco-Egyptian", which is used most often by the sources and which expresses the uncertainty well. Tonycrisos, what do you think? ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 00:21, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Below you can find the citation as promised. So consider revising Zosimos' identity from "Greco-Egyption" to Greek. Thank you in advance.
Zosimus from Hermetic Fragments from Various Authors (FH 1–45) Published online by Cambridge University Press: 26 July 2018
Zosimus. (n.d.). Cambridge Core. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/hermetica-ii/zosimus/1F7FD482A6B309BEC6C03EC2121A3AC7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonycrisos ( talk • contribs) 05:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
Some wikis say he lived between 350 and 420 AD, that's 4th and 5th century. This article says 2nd and 3rd century. Ponor ( talk) 05:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article appears to be based on Jung's very imperfect understanding of Zosimus: imperfect both becuase of the bais of Jung's interpretation and because of its ignorance of the extant corups of Zosimus' works. In fact there survives in the original Greek a complete treatise by Zosimus, On the Letter Omega, which is not mentioned in the article. To describe Zosimus as a 'Gnsoic mystic' after the precision of understanding of what Gnosticism is and is not in the light of the last half century of scholarship is laughable. The whole article needs to be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.49.132 ( talk • contribs)
I think that the vision section could be shortened up. J8079s ( talk) 22:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
He is referenced in Picatrix, the most influential book for western magic. Perhaps this could be included somewhere in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.244.136 ( talk) 05:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I read this article and found myself wondering whether we have two people confused together here. The first is the alchemical writer; the second is the author of the Nag Hammadi gnostic text?
I've never researched it, but I ask the question. Box2112 ( talk) 14:14, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
This is what the sources say:
Zosimos of Panopolis was perhaps the most important of the Graeco-Egyptian alchemists.( Sherwood Taylor, F. (1937). "The Visions Of Zosimos". Ambix. 1 (1): 88–92. doi: 10.1179/amb.1937.1.1.88. p. 88)
The Egyptian alchemist Zosimos of Panopolis was a pivotal figure in the history of Greek alchemy.(Stolzenberg, Daniel (1999). "Unpropitious Tinctures: Alchemy, Astrology & Gnosis According to Zosimos of Panopolis". Archives Internationales d'histoire des sciences. 49 (142): 3–31. p. 3)
These writings come from a Greco-Egyptian alchemist [...]: Zosimos of Panopolis.( Principe, Lawrence M. (2013). The Secrets of Alchemy. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0226103792. p. 14)
[...] in a Zosimos text just recently identified, the Egyptian admits freely that [...]( Principe 2013, p. 17)
Now the sources also standardly speak of Greek alchemy
(e.g., the same
Principe 2013, p. 15 as quoted above), but Bink Hallum describes scholarly practice well when he notes:
When I use the terms Greek, Syriac and Arabic to describe authors and traditions, I mean to describe only the language in which the author so described predominately wrote, or the language in which the texts that make up a tradition are written. I do not mean to imply that the authors who contributed to or those who worked within a certain tradition were ethnically Greeks, Syrians or Arabs; the so-called Greek alchemists were mostly natives of Egypt of Hellenic, Egyptian and Jewish descent and one of the foremost so-called Arab alchemists, al-Rāzī, was of Persian origins. (Hallum, Benjamin C. (2008). Zosimus Arabus: The Reception of Zosimos of Panopolis in the Arabic/Islamic World (PhD diss.). Warburg Institute. p. 17)
In this sense, you will find also Zosimos sometimes described as a Greek alchemist, but this only refers to the language of his writings. As
Principe 2013, p. 23 mentions, Greek was the language both of the earliest alchemical texts and of literate Greco-Roman Egypt.
When it comes to Zosimos actual background, Garth Fowden notes that almost no information has survived about the external incidents of his life.
(
Fowden, Garth (1986).
The Egyptian Hermes: a Historical Approach to the Late Pagan Mind.
Cambridge University Press.
ISBN
0-521-32583-8.
OCLC
13333446. p. 120). In other words, his ethnicity, like most things relating to his life, is unknown. All sources cited agree, however, that he was born in
Panopolis (Akhmim) and that he wrote in Greek, hence why they call him "Egyptian" or "Greco-Egyptian".
Given all of the above, I see no reason to call Zosimos a "Greek" or "Egyptian-born Greek" alchemist in the lead. I prefer the term "Greco-Egyptian", which is used most often by the sources and which expresses the uncertainty well. Tonycrisos, what do you think? ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 00:21, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Below you can find the citation as promised. So consider revising Zosimos' identity from "Greco-Egyption" to Greek. Thank you in advance.
Zosimus from Hermetic Fragments from Various Authors (FH 1–45) Published online by Cambridge University Press: 26 July 2018
Zosimus. (n.d.). Cambridge Core. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/hermetica-ii/zosimus/1F7FD482A6B309BEC6C03EC2121A3AC7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonycrisos ( talk • contribs) 05:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
Some wikis say he lived between 350 and 420 AD, that's 4th and 5th century. This article says 2nd and 3rd century. Ponor ( talk) 05:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)