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Skhug sure looks the same as Zhug
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 September 2020 and 10 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Thepassedbytrain.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 28 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rosey9921.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
They are the same. Different ways of transliterating the same thing. The two pages should be merged.
So...what would you say is the better transliteration? DonIncognito 01:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they are the same, there are compaies that make and sell both Schug and Zhuk זחוק , I cant firgure out what the exact difference is but it doesn't make sense that they would sell the same product with 2 differet spellings.. this should be merged with the Schug article that I just created.. can some one explain to me why kh is used for a ח on wikipedia ? -- yisraeldov 15:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I have merged everything in this article, as I believe it conforms to the naming convension the best. Jon513 15:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
If anyone thinks that there is a problem the way the articles are currently constructed are welcome to correct it. Jon513 13:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Why did you remove cumin and cardamom from Skhug? The sauce contains these spices; maybe the recipe you used did not include the whole ingredient list. Like I said, the difference between the Skhug and Zhug is not big enough to warrant separate articles. Like all traditional sauces, exact spice mixtures may vary from place to place or even family to family. Taking your logic to its conclusion, we should now have separate articles for Skhug adom, yarok, and chum.. But that would be silly, just as having two articles for these sauces.
All of the above leads me to conclude that in essence, these are the same sauces. On the other hand, by your logic, Heinz ketchup and Hunt's ketchup are not variations on a recipe for the same sauce, ketchup, but rather two different sauces altogether. The articles need to be re-merged, in order to avoid redundancy and confusion on Wikipedia. DonIncognito 16:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this should be merged with Adjika, it's the same spice with different names from different countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.199.9.67 ( talk) 09:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The article should be renamed to Sahawiq and the correct Arabic spelling is سحاوق. It is clear that the current title of this Yemeni condiment reflects the Israeli mispronunciation.-- 158.222.143.146 ( talk) 14:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Zhug. The consensus is that this is the most common name. Other variants created as redirects. Old page history at Zhug moved to Zhoug to preserve attribution. Jenks24 ( talk) 06:58, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Skhug →
Sahawiq – Sahawiq is a Yemeni condiment and this is the correct spelling of the Arabic name. The article is heavily influenced by an Israeli point of view, as this condiment was popularized in Israel by its Yemeni minority, and this gave rise to the Israeli mispronunciation "s'hug", probably due to the fact that Hebrew is usually written without vowels. Either way, the origin is Yemeni and there's no reason to give undue weight to a borrowed version of this name. Google confirms that Sahawiq is more common than "skhug", despite the difference in between Israel and Yemen in terms of presence across the web (
[2] vs
[3]).
158.222.143.13 (
talk) 03:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk) 17:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
It's hard to understand Google hit counts. Despite hundreds of thousands of hits I can't go beyond the sixth page of search results. I have a feeling that the four letter combination zhug doesn't always refer to the subject of this article. Anyway, after doing a variety of searches with different combinations it seems that there are two schools -- those that refer to it as an Israeli condiment and spell it something like skhug, shug, zhug etc, and those that refer to it as a Yemeni condiment and spell it sahawiq, sahawig, etc. It is clear that the differences between the different spellings within each group are a matter of transliteration, so the first thing that needs to be determined is which pronunciation ought to be preferred -- Israeli or Yemeni.-- 158.222.143.13 ( talk) 00:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
The proper name is the original name, which is Sahawiq, and not some name that comes according to google hit count. Is this a common sense to call a food item according to google hit count? If so, I might as well start a wiki entry about an Ugandan food item, give it a name in my local dialect, and stamp it with my nationality, and get many google hit counts (just to be discovered years later, and infuriates people up, and start the move/google hit count illogical discussion). This does not make sense, and obviously google hit counts is not a meter. The original name is Sahawiq, and not some broken name ChuChu ( talk) 22:39, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Which species of "black cumin"? Please be specific. Bunium bulbocastanum and Nigella sativa are nothing like one another. 173.88.243.210 ( talk) 07:27, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
Could someone who knows how the name of this food is pronounced in Hebrew and Arabic provide the IPA for the pronunciation in each language? The various transliterations are rather confusing. The Hebrew spelling suggests a pronunciation of [sxug], though without nikkud it's potentially ambiguous. And unfortunately I don't read Arabic, so I can't help there. Also, does Wikipedia have a standard transliteration system for Hebrew and Arabic? I don't know of one, but if someone does know of such a standard, it would be good to use it here. JonathanHopeThisIsUnique ( talk) 19:05, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, In rural areas of Yemen, they add some ingredients that make the sahawaq really good. I am from Yemen and I lived most of my life in rural areas. I have done some research for the scientific names of these ingredients,
"Zhug (Hebrew: סְחוּג, romanized: s'ḥug), sahawiq (Yemeni Arabic: سَحاوِق) or bisbas (بسباس) is a hot sauce originating in Yemeni cuisine.[1] In other countries of the Arabian Peninsula"
It just... ends there. Did someone remove the other half of the trailing sentence? Should the half-sentence be removed? I'm just a random guy who was Googling a food dish out of curiosity, so IDK what the solution here is... Blysse ( talk) 05:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
doesn't it seem strange to anybody that it is "a hot sauce originating in Yemeni cuisine", yet the first name that appears in this article, and indeed the name of the article, are the israeli pronunciation? i don't think you can say that there is a common name for this condiment, considering that it doesn't appear in any english language dictionary and the editors of this article weren't even sure about how to spell it (see past discussions). google counts by themselves cannot establish that something is a "common name" in english, only that one spelling is more common on the web than another. i'm quite confident that the vast majority of english speakers have never heard of it. in the absence of an established common name, one should consider the origins of the word. even if for some reason we were to prefer the israeli word over the yemeni arabic word for this yemeni condiment, consider that it's not a hebrew word but rather a loan word, and there's no clear explanation how the original sahawiq (or sahawig in some dialects) became zhug, apart from a mispronunciation of the written word due to the absence of niqqud (vowel diacreticals that are usually omitted in modern hebrew). considering the economical differences between the two countries, it's not surprising that the israeli (mis)spelling is more common online than the yemeni one. sadly, wikipedia is amplifying this by choosing this spelling over one that is based in its country of origin. the word "cultural appropriation" is thrown around a lot nowadays, usually without good reason, but it's hard not to consider this a case of cultural appropriation, where the nation that invented this condiment can't even have a say about how it is called.-- Exjerusalemite ( talk) 00:12, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Zhoug was copied or moved into Zhug with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Skhug sure looks the same as Zhug
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 September 2020 and 10 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Thepassedbytrain.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 28 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rosey9921.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
They are the same. Different ways of transliterating the same thing. The two pages should be merged.
So...what would you say is the better transliteration? DonIncognito 01:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they are the same, there are compaies that make and sell both Schug and Zhuk זחוק , I cant firgure out what the exact difference is but it doesn't make sense that they would sell the same product with 2 differet spellings.. this should be merged with the Schug article that I just created.. can some one explain to me why kh is used for a ח on wikipedia ? -- yisraeldov 15:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I have merged everything in this article, as I believe it conforms to the naming convension the best. Jon513 15:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
If anyone thinks that there is a problem the way the articles are currently constructed are welcome to correct it. Jon513 13:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Why did you remove cumin and cardamom from Skhug? The sauce contains these spices; maybe the recipe you used did not include the whole ingredient list. Like I said, the difference between the Skhug and Zhug is not big enough to warrant separate articles. Like all traditional sauces, exact spice mixtures may vary from place to place or even family to family. Taking your logic to its conclusion, we should now have separate articles for Skhug adom, yarok, and chum.. But that would be silly, just as having two articles for these sauces.
All of the above leads me to conclude that in essence, these are the same sauces. On the other hand, by your logic, Heinz ketchup and Hunt's ketchup are not variations on a recipe for the same sauce, ketchup, but rather two different sauces altogether. The articles need to be re-merged, in order to avoid redundancy and confusion on Wikipedia. DonIncognito 16:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this should be merged with Adjika, it's the same spice with different names from different countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.199.9.67 ( talk) 09:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The article should be renamed to Sahawiq and the correct Arabic spelling is سحاوق. It is clear that the current title of this Yemeni condiment reflects the Israeli mispronunciation.-- 158.222.143.146 ( talk) 14:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Zhug. The consensus is that this is the most common name. Other variants created as redirects. Old page history at Zhug moved to Zhoug to preserve attribution. Jenks24 ( talk) 06:58, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Skhug →
Sahawiq – Sahawiq is a Yemeni condiment and this is the correct spelling of the Arabic name. The article is heavily influenced by an Israeli point of view, as this condiment was popularized in Israel by its Yemeni minority, and this gave rise to the Israeli mispronunciation "s'hug", probably due to the fact that Hebrew is usually written without vowels. Either way, the origin is Yemeni and there's no reason to give undue weight to a borrowed version of this name. Google confirms that Sahawiq is more common than "skhug", despite the difference in between Israel and Yemen in terms of presence across the web (
[2] vs
[3]).
158.222.143.13 (
talk) 03:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk) 17:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
It's hard to understand Google hit counts. Despite hundreds of thousands of hits I can't go beyond the sixth page of search results. I have a feeling that the four letter combination zhug doesn't always refer to the subject of this article. Anyway, after doing a variety of searches with different combinations it seems that there are two schools -- those that refer to it as an Israeli condiment and spell it something like skhug, shug, zhug etc, and those that refer to it as a Yemeni condiment and spell it sahawiq, sahawig, etc. It is clear that the differences between the different spellings within each group are a matter of transliteration, so the first thing that needs to be determined is which pronunciation ought to be preferred -- Israeli or Yemeni.-- 158.222.143.13 ( talk) 00:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
The proper name is the original name, which is Sahawiq, and not some name that comes according to google hit count. Is this a common sense to call a food item according to google hit count? If so, I might as well start a wiki entry about an Ugandan food item, give it a name in my local dialect, and stamp it with my nationality, and get many google hit counts (just to be discovered years later, and infuriates people up, and start the move/google hit count illogical discussion). This does not make sense, and obviously google hit counts is not a meter. The original name is Sahawiq, and not some broken name ChuChu ( talk) 22:39, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Which species of "black cumin"? Please be specific. Bunium bulbocastanum and Nigella sativa are nothing like one another. 173.88.243.210 ( talk) 07:27, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
Could someone who knows how the name of this food is pronounced in Hebrew and Arabic provide the IPA for the pronunciation in each language? The various transliterations are rather confusing. The Hebrew spelling suggests a pronunciation of [sxug], though without nikkud it's potentially ambiguous. And unfortunately I don't read Arabic, so I can't help there. Also, does Wikipedia have a standard transliteration system for Hebrew and Arabic? I don't know of one, but if someone does know of such a standard, it would be good to use it here. JonathanHopeThisIsUnique ( talk) 19:05, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, In rural areas of Yemen, they add some ingredients that make the sahawaq really good. I am from Yemen and I lived most of my life in rural areas. I have done some research for the scientific names of these ingredients,
"Zhug (Hebrew: סְחוּג, romanized: s'ḥug), sahawiq (Yemeni Arabic: سَحاوِق) or bisbas (بسباس) is a hot sauce originating in Yemeni cuisine.[1] In other countries of the Arabian Peninsula"
It just... ends there. Did someone remove the other half of the trailing sentence? Should the half-sentence be removed? I'm just a random guy who was Googling a food dish out of curiosity, so IDK what the solution here is... Blysse ( talk) 05:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
doesn't it seem strange to anybody that it is "a hot sauce originating in Yemeni cuisine", yet the first name that appears in this article, and indeed the name of the article, are the israeli pronunciation? i don't think you can say that there is a common name for this condiment, considering that it doesn't appear in any english language dictionary and the editors of this article weren't even sure about how to spell it (see past discussions). google counts by themselves cannot establish that something is a "common name" in english, only that one spelling is more common on the web than another. i'm quite confident that the vast majority of english speakers have never heard of it. in the absence of an established common name, one should consider the origins of the word. even if for some reason we were to prefer the israeli word over the yemeni arabic word for this yemeni condiment, consider that it's not a hebrew word but rather a loan word, and there's no clear explanation how the original sahawiq (or sahawig in some dialects) became zhug, apart from a mispronunciation of the written word due to the absence of niqqud (vowel diacreticals that are usually omitted in modern hebrew). considering the economical differences between the two countries, it's not surprising that the israeli (mis)spelling is more common online than the yemeni one. sadly, wikipedia is amplifying this by choosing this spelling over one that is based in its country of origin. the word "cultural appropriation" is thrown around a lot nowadays, usually without good reason, but it's hard not to consider this a case of cultural appropriation, where the nation that invented this condiment can't even have a say about how it is called.-- Exjerusalemite ( talk) 00:12, 27 December 2022 (UTC)