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I think most of the "Mazaher" section should be split to its own article. It appears that most or all of this information was taken from the egyptmusic.org website [1]. I think it was sufficiently rewritten so that it isn't a copyvio, but I think it needs further work in terms of tone, style, verification etc. Also, there is a whole lot of confusion resulting from the seeming interchangeability of the terms tanbura, tamboura, tanbur etc. The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians identifies the instrument as a tanbura so I've gone with that. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
It isn't clear to me whether Zar is a religion, a ritual, or the term for possessive spirits. Based on the little I've been able to find it might mean any of the three. In any case I'd suggest changing the article's name so it has a shorter and/or clearer disambiguation than "(religious custom)". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
A new citation in the article supports the idea that Zaar spread to Southwest Asia (i.e. Arabia, Iran) via Ethiopian slaves. I'm wondering if they brought the krar with them: judging from photos, the Zaar tanbūra and the krar are very similar. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The source that this is cited from is not, in anyway, a conclusive authority on the Zan cult, especially since it is a source that is more than twenty years old. For more accurate, up-to-date information in this area I would refer to both Janice Boddy and (especially) Linda Giles. In fact, given their research, it would appear that this: "The Zaar cult served as a refuge for women and effeminate men in conservative, Muslim-dominated Sudan." is completely false. The cult came to be as a result of Islam, but not because of it's domination. Furthermore, men and women did participate, but it was not as connected to gender ideals as this author makes it sound. It had more to do with class than anything, as many of the participants were upper-class, highly-educated men and women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.239.83 ( talk • contribs) 05:00, 12 February 2009
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7926995. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Gyrofrog (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
The section on possession in Ṭumbura does not mention Zar. Does the Ṭumbura section belong in this article? Or should it be rewritten to mention how it is part of the Zar system? Pete unseth ( talk) 17:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
The article was extremely confused, because it apparently conflated at least three, related but different, phenomena. First of all, Zār is the term for "malevolent spirit" or "demon", it is not the "name of a ritual". The ritual has to be termed "Zār ritual" or similar. The topic includes
It would probably be misguided to discuss various musical instruments in the context of 19th-century Ethiopian demonology, and just as misguided to detail the various animal sacrifices used in 19th-century Ethiopia in the context of women's parties in contemporary Cairo.
There is a proper article waiting to be written here, which would obviously break out such sub-topics into sections. -- dab (𒁳) 18:05, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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I think most of the "Mazaher" section should be split to its own article. It appears that most or all of this information was taken from the egyptmusic.org website [1]. I think it was sufficiently rewritten so that it isn't a copyvio, but I think it needs further work in terms of tone, style, verification etc. Also, there is a whole lot of confusion resulting from the seeming interchangeability of the terms tanbura, tamboura, tanbur etc. The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians identifies the instrument as a tanbura so I've gone with that. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
It isn't clear to me whether Zar is a religion, a ritual, or the term for possessive spirits. Based on the little I've been able to find it might mean any of the three. In any case I'd suggest changing the article's name so it has a shorter and/or clearer disambiguation than "(religious custom)". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
A new citation in the article supports the idea that Zaar spread to Southwest Asia (i.e. Arabia, Iran) via Ethiopian slaves. I'm wondering if they brought the krar with them: judging from photos, the Zaar tanbūra and the krar are very similar. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The source that this is cited from is not, in anyway, a conclusive authority on the Zan cult, especially since it is a source that is more than twenty years old. For more accurate, up-to-date information in this area I would refer to both Janice Boddy and (especially) Linda Giles. In fact, given their research, it would appear that this: "The Zaar cult served as a refuge for women and effeminate men in conservative, Muslim-dominated Sudan." is completely false. The cult came to be as a result of Islam, but not because of it's domination. Furthermore, men and women did participate, but it was not as connected to gender ideals as this author makes it sound. It had more to do with class than anything, as many of the participants were upper-class, highly-educated men and women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.239.83 ( talk • contribs) 05:00, 12 February 2009
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7926995. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Gyrofrog (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
The section on possession in Ṭumbura does not mention Zar. Does the Ṭumbura section belong in this article? Or should it be rewritten to mention how it is part of the Zar system? Pete unseth ( talk) 17:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
The article was extremely confused, because it apparently conflated at least three, related but different, phenomena. First of all, Zār is the term for "malevolent spirit" or "demon", it is not the "name of a ritual". The ritual has to be termed "Zār ritual" or similar. The topic includes
It would probably be misguided to discuss various musical instruments in the context of 19th-century Ethiopian demonology, and just as misguided to detail the various animal sacrifices used in 19th-century Ethiopia in the context of women's parties in contemporary Cairo.
There is a proper article waiting to be written here, which would obviously break out such sub-topics into sections. -- dab (𒁳) 18:05, 7 May 2016 (UTC)