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I'm again removing this stuff:
"The fact that the Septuagint and Nehemiah call Joshua Iēsous or Yeshua indicates that the name was pronounced in this way at their time. The question we address now is whether this form was used at the time of Jesus. Was the Greek spelling Iēsous meant to reflect the actual pronunciation as Yeshua, or was his name really Yehoshua and those who composed the Greek of our New Testament changed it to Iēsous in order to conform to some convention?
Although the form Iēsous was the normal form for Joshua son of Nun, this would obviously not require Greek writers or translators to use it for someone else named Yehoshua`. (The normal transliteration of Yehoshua would have been Ιωσους or Ιωσουε (compare the Latin Iosue), as in other NT names like Ιωσαφατ for Yehoshaphat.) And yet all New Testament writers or translators (at least nine different persons) use the form Iēsous for the founder of Christianity."
This is indeed original research. The forms Ιωσους or Ιωσουε are unattested in any Greek text nor does any discussion of the name in published works present these speculative forms. All known cases of Greek transliteration of the name Joshua are Iēsous, no other form is known. Also its not the Septuagint that calls "Joshua" by the name "Yeshua" it is the original Hebrew texts of Ezra and Nehemiah that use "Yeshua", you seem to be equating Iēsous with "Yeshua" despite the fact that it is used for "Yehoshuah" as well and there is no indication that Yehoshua was pronounced Yeshua when written out in Hebrew in uncontracted form, you seem to think that the Greek form implies the contracted Hebrew pronunciation Yeshua, but that is fallacy, Greek does not have an "h", the fact that its not present in the Greek form says nothing about the pronunciation of the Hebrew, you can't make up alternative speculative Greek transliterations and use them to conclude that Iēsous implies a pronunciation Yeshua.
Kuratowski's Ghost (
talk)
22:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Can you please cite which Church Fathers said so and where? I agree with you, this "Yeshua" nonsense is one of the great lies ever wrought against our Lord, and the citation of the Septuagint and other Jewish writers as the basis to understand his original name is a misdirection. God said the Kingdom would be given to another people's, He gave that Kingdom to the Greeks, would it not make sense then that the Messiah would have a Greek name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.190.155 ( talk) 23:47, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure, but this story about a Rabbi blurting out the word Yeshua in Kabbalistic language is interesting, and might deserve a mention if its relevancy is correctly pointed out or demonstrated. [1] ADM ( talk) 20:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
See Talk:Yahshua#Merge regarding a proposal to merge the articles Yahshuah and Yahshua. -- AuthorityTam ( talk) 21:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd love to hear the variations here spoken. Any chance we can get some sound samples on this page? -- SpareSimian ( talk) 15:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
There is not one single Christian source that links this pejorative hebrew spelling of Yeshua/Jesus. It is complete crap that it is in this article and I suggest that it is removed. In the interm I posted reference from printed articles showing that it is infact pejorative and biased. -- Teacherbrock ( talk) 12:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
---So we can remove Yeshu from the article completely? I agree. -- Teacherbrock ( talk) 17:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Teacherbrock: the convention in WP is to have a single disambiguation sentence/paragraph at the top, not 2 separate paragraphs. Is that okay? -- Noleander ( talk) 17:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
sure--
Teacherbrock (
talk)
20:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I have I hope tweaked the lede in a good way; putting the Strong's ref into a ref box, and adding into lede Joshua the High Priest - which is the most notable sourced used of this spelling - then Joshua and Yeshu in Franz Delitzsch etc. What further WP:source can be added for the spelling in the lede? In ictu oculi ( talk) 01:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I propose my previous edit be reinstated, as it is factually accurate. Whereas Yahshua is abbreviated to Yeshua, Yeshua is also a separate name. Yahshua is a theophoric name, abbreivated to Yeshua; whereas Yeshua as a separate name is a verbal form of Shua.
The same goes for Yoseph and Yehoseph; Yoseph is a verbal form of Seph, and also (separately) an abbreviated form of the theophoric Yehoseph. Many other examples exist. I strongly challege the undoing of my contribution.
Ben Ammi ( talk) 01:34, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
"Yahshua" does not occur anywhere in the Bible or Hebrew/Aramaic literature. Rather, there's the name Yəhōšūʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūʕ (or Yəhōšūaʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūaʕ in the forms of the names as they're preserved by the Masoretes, though the "a" vowels were non-syllabic, and would not have been present in the pronunciation of the Biblical period itself). Yēšūʕ probably does contain a shortened form of the Tetragrammaton (etymologically at least), but formulas such as "Yehoshua is a theophoric name, combining Yeho and Shua"[sic] are extremely simplistic and not really accurate, and unhelpful in the context of this article. "Yoseph" is a finite inflected verb type of Semitic name, and not derived from "Seph"[sic]. If you don't know that Semitic-language etymologies generally proceed by way of triliteral roots, then you won't get too far in this area... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:43, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I believe this sentance should be added to the article; "Yeshua is spelled with a W in the Strong's Concordance as YESHUWA which has seven letters in it not just six."
Did you know the name Jesus is just the same name as Joshua? Joshua is a corruption of Yahshua and Yahshua is not the true spelling which is Yeshua. In the Hebrew there is a constinant letter there denoting the W which most people are dropping so therefore it should be YESHUWA. Note that the long form of YESHUWA is YEHOSHUWA. It is awe inspiring that the name YEHOVAH the name of the Father has the same letters as the name of the Son. YEHOSHUA just has the inset SHU and the H dropped off the end. As you know the Hebrew letter W and V are the same letter in Hebrew. In the Strong's Concordance the real root word of YEHOVAH is listed but no claims are made that it is the root of YEHOVAH. That root is HOVAH. For an explination of this see the take page of " Jehovah". 108.81.134.196 ( talk) 23:39, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Arguments in support of moving are stronger. SSTflyer 02:48, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
– "Yeshua" is most popularly refers to the name Yeshua. As you can see using the Pageview Analysis program from WMF Labs, the name of Yeshua receives c. 843 views per day, while the other variant spellings and subjects with the name of Yeshua get very low views per day, the highest being with the spelling Yeshu, with c. 84 views per day. The name Yeshua is the primary topic. Therefore, per policy, the name of Yeshua should be primary topic and there should be a disambiguation page named Yeshua (disambiguation) with the other spelling variants and subjects with the name. CookieMonster755 📞 ✉ ✓ 03:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC) -- Relisted Anarchyte ( work | talk) 01:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: WITHDRAWN by nominator. Ḉɱ̍ 2nd anniv. 19:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Yeshua →
Yeshua (name) – Proposed move:
|
Since our English-speaking audience knows Jesus as "Jesus," people typically aren't going to be looking for Jesus.Sorry, but that ain't the best argument. There are many foreign language redirects to their English counterpart, because people know the subject by both names, such as this for example. But I will leave that up to you, since you are an admin and I know you have good judgement, my friend :) I am just trying to help out with the Wikipedia community. Ḉɱ̍ 2nd anniv. 01:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
To set themselves off, Messianic Jews use 'Y'shua' instead of Jesus. This has the same pronunciation as 'Yeshua'. Using English Gematria with the key of A=1, B2 C3...Z26, Y'shua=74=Y25+S19+H8+U21+A1. G-d=7_4, Judeans=74, Jewish=74, Messiah=74, Joshua=74, Jesus=74, etc. 2601:589:4700:2390:C129:9F7B:16E0:CDCC ( talk) 15:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 ( talk) 03:25, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Yeshua → Yeshua (name) – The name Yeshua (Hebrew: ישוע, translit. Yēšū́aʿ) overwhelming refers to Jesus, and not simply the name itself. If you do a Google Book search here), the first 6+ page results refer specifically to Jesus, returning 45,000 results. Yeshua Ha Mashiach, Yeshua Messiah and other variations already redirect to Jesus. Messianic Jews, as well as Hebrew speaking people refer to Jesus as Yeshua. The current setup is inconvenient – Yeshua should redirect to Jesus per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT with the name at Yeshua (name). The very name Jesus originates from the name Yeshua. Academic works point to the usage of "Yeshua" as referring to Jesus, "This is likely an inference from the Talmud and other Jewish usage, where Jesus is called Yeshu, and other Jews with the same name are called by the fuller name Yehoshua, 'Joshua'" (Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus outside the New Testament, 2000, ISBN 978-0-8028-4368-5 p. 124). Other academic work also supports the usage of common usage of Yeshua to refer to Jesus. CookieMonster755 ✉ 01:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I added
Template:Lead too long because the lead is too long and contains a malplaced {{
Main article}}
. I am not able to do it myself because of insufficient knowledge of the subject.
Shhhnotsoloud (
talk)
05:54, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Since the 1960s, Messianic Judaism aka Jews for Jesus uses the spelling Y'shua to distinguish itself.<ref]citation needed</ref] 73.85.206.203 ( talk) 14:37, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
This page overlaps for the most part with Jesus (name). It would be better for readers if they were combined. Onceinawhile ( talk) 18:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
I added... Y'shua is the correct way to spell Jesus in trying to get as close as possible as to how the Messiah's name was pronounced in the Aramaic of his day. Some Messianic-Jews having been spelling it as Y'shua since the 1960s 99.169.79.198 ( talk) 15:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm again removing this stuff:
"The fact that the Septuagint and Nehemiah call Joshua Iēsous or Yeshua indicates that the name was pronounced in this way at their time. The question we address now is whether this form was used at the time of Jesus. Was the Greek spelling Iēsous meant to reflect the actual pronunciation as Yeshua, or was his name really Yehoshua and those who composed the Greek of our New Testament changed it to Iēsous in order to conform to some convention?
Although the form Iēsous was the normal form for Joshua son of Nun, this would obviously not require Greek writers or translators to use it for someone else named Yehoshua`. (The normal transliteration of Yehoshua would have been Ιωσους or Ιωσουε (compare the Latin Iosue), as in other NT names like Ιωσαφατ for Yehoshaphat.) And yet all New Testament writers or translators (at least nine different persons) use the form Iēsous for the founder of Christianity."
This is indeed original research. The forms Ιωσους or Ιωσουε are unattested in any Greek text nor does any discussion of the name in published works present these speculative forms. All known cases of Greek transliteration of the name Joshua are Iēsous, no other form is known. Also its not the Septuagint that calls "Joshua" by the name "Yeshua" it is the original Hebrew texts of Ezra and Nehemiah that use "Yeshua", you seem to be equating Iēsous with "Yeshua" despite the fact that it is used for "Yehoshuah" as well and there is no indication that Yehoshua was pronounced Yeshua when written out in Hebrew in uncontracted form, you seem to think that the Greek form implies the contracted Hebrew pronunciation Yeshua, but that is fallacy, Greek does not have an "h", the fact that its not present in the Greek form says nothing about the pronunciation of the Hebrew, you can't make up alternative speculative Greek transliterations and use them to conclude that Iēsous implies a pronunciation Yeshua.
Kuratowski's Ghost (
talk)
22:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Can you please cite which Church Fathers said so and where? I agree with you, this "Yeshua" nonsense is one of the great lies ever wrought against our Lord, and the citation of the Septuagint and other Jewish writers as the basis to understand his original name is a misdirection. God said the Kingdom would be given to another people's, He gave that Kingdom to the Greeks, would it not make sense then that the Messiah would have a Greek name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.190.155 ( talk) 23:47, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure, but this story about a Rabbi blurting out the word Yeshua in Kabbalistic language is interesting, and might deserve a mention if its relevancy is correctly pointed out or demonstrated. [1] ADM ( talk) 20:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
See Talk:Yahshua#Merge regarding a proposal to merge the articles Yahshuah and Yahshua. -- AuthorityTam ( talk) 21:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd love to hear the variations here spoken. Any chance we can get some sound samples on this page? -- SpareSimian ( talk) 15:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
There is not one single Christian source that links this pejorative hebrew spelling of Yeshua/Jesus. It is complete crap that it is in this article and I suggest that it is removed. In the interm I posted reference from printed articles showing that it is infact pejorative and biased. -- Teacherbrock ( talk) 12:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
---So we can remove Yeshu from the article completely? I agree. -- Teacherbrock ( talk) 17:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Teacherbrock: the convention in WP is to have a single disambiguation sentence/paragraph at the top, not 2 separate paragraphs. Is that okay? -- Noleander ( talk) 17:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
sure--
Teacherbrock (
talk)
20:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I have I hope tweaked the lede in a good way; putting the Strong's ref into a ref box, and adding into lede Joshua the High Priest - which is the most notable sourced used of this spelling - then Joshua and Yeshu in Franz Delitzsch etc. What further WP:source can be added for the spelling in the lede? In ictu oculi ( talk) 01:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I propose my previous edit be reinstated, as it is factually accurate. Whereas Yahshua is abbreviated to Yeshua, Yeshua is also a separate name. Yahshua is a theophoric name, abbreivated to Yeshua; whereas Yeshua as a separate name is a verbal form of Shua.
The same goes for Yoseph and Yehoseph; Yoseph is a verbal form of Seph, and also (separately) an abbreviated form of the theophoric Yehoseph. Many other examples exist. I strongly challege the undoing of my contribution.
Ben Ammi ( talk) 01:34, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
"Yahshua" does not occur anywhere in the Bible or Hebrew/Aramaic literature. Rather, there's the name Yəhōšūʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūʕ (or Yəhōšūaʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūaʕ in the forms of the names as they're preserved by the Masoretes, though the "a" vowels were non-syllabic, and would not have been present in the pronunciation of the Biblical period itself). Yēšūʕ probably does contain a shortened form of the Tetragrammaton (etymologically at least), but formulas such as "Yehoshua is a theophoric name, combining Yeho and Shua"[sic] are extremely simplistic and not really accurate, and unhelpful in the context of this article. "Yoseph" is a finite inflected verb type of Semitic name, and not derived from "Seph"[sic]. If you don't know that Semitic-language etymologies generally proceed by way of triliteral roots, then you won't get too far in this area... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:43, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I believe this sentance should be added to the article; "Yeshua is spelled with a W in the Strong's Concordance as YESHUWA which has seven letters in it not just six."
Did you know the name Jesus is just the same name as Joshua? Joshua is a corruption of Yahshua and Yahshua is not the true spelling which is Yeshua. In the Hebrew there is a constinant letter there denoting the W which most people are dropping so therefore it should be YESHUWA. Note that the long form of YESHUWA is YEHOSHUWA. It is awe inspiring that the name YEHOVAH the name of the Father has the same letters as the name of the Son. YEHOSHUA just has the inset SHU and the H dropped off the end. As you know the Hebrew letter W and V are the same letter in Hebrew. In the Strong's Concordance the real root word of YEHOVAH is listed but no claims are made that it is the root of YEHOVAH. That root is HOVAH. For an explination of this see the take page of " Jehovah". 108.81.134.196 ( talk) 23:39, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Arguments in support of moving are stronger. SSTflyer 02:48, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
– "Yeshua" is most popularly refers to the name Yeshua. As you can see using the Pageview Analysis program from WMF Labs, the name of Yeshua receives c. 843 views per day, while the other variant spellings and subjects with the name of Yeshua get very low views per day, the highest being with the spelling Yeshu, with c. 84 views per day. The name Yeshua is the primary topic. Therefore, per policy, the name of Yeshua should be primary topic and there should be a disambiguation page named Yeshua (disambiguation) with the other spelling variants and subjects with the name. CookieMonster755 📞 ✉ ✓ 03:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC) -- Relisted Anarchyte ( work | talk) 01:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: WITHDRAWN by nominator. Ḉɱ̍ 2nd anniv. 19:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Yeshua →
Yeshua (name) – Proposed move:
|
Since our English-speaking audience knows Jesus as "Jesus," people typically aren't going to be looking for Jesus.Sorry, but that ain't the best argument. There are many foreign language redirects to their English counterpart, because people know the subject by both names, such as this for example. But I will leave that up to you, since you are an admin and I know you have good judgement, my friend :) I am just trying to help out with the Wikipedia community. Ḉɱ̍ 2nd anniv. 01:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
To set themselves off, Messianic Jews use 'Y'shua' instead of Jesus. This has the same pronunciation as 'Yeshua'. Using English Gematria with the key of A=1, B2 C3...Z26, Y'shua=74=Y25+S19+H8+U21+A1. G-d=7_4, Judeans=74, Jewish=74, Messiah=74, Joshua=74, Jesus=74, etc. 2601:589:4700:2390:C129:9F7B:16E0:CDCC ( talk) 15:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 ( talk) 03:25, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Yeshua → Yeshua (name) – The name Yeshua (Hebrew: ישוע, translit. Yēšū́aʿ) overwhelming refers to Jesus, and not simply the name itself. If you do a Google Book search here), the first 6+ page results refer specifically to Jesus, returning 45,000 results. Yeshua Ha Mashiach, Yeshua Messiah and other variations already redirect to Jesus. Messianic Jews, as well as Hebrew speaking people refer to Jesus as Yeshua. The current setup is inconvenient – Yeshua should redirect to Jesus per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT with the name at Yeshua (name). The very name Jesus originates from the name Yeshua. Academic works point to the usage of "Yeshua" as referring to Jesus, "This is likely an inference from the Talmud and other Jewish usage, where Jesus is called Yeshu, and other Jews with the same name are called by the fuller name Yehoshua, 'Joshua'" (Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus outside the New Testament, 2000, ISBN 978-0-8028-4368-5 p. 124). Other academic work also supports the usage of common usage of Yeshua to refer to Jesus. CookieMonster755 ✉ 01:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I added
Template:Lead too long because the lead is too long and contains a malplaced {{
Main article}}
. I am not able to do it myself because of insufficient knowledge of the subject.
Shhhnotsoloud (
talk)
05:54, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Since the 1960s, Messianic Judaism aka Jews for Jesus uses the spelling Y'shua to distinguish itself.<ref]citation needed</ref] 73.85.206.203 ( talk) 14:37, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
This page overlaps for the most part with Jesus (name). It would be better for readers if they were combined. Onceinawhile ( talk) 18:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
I added... Y'shua is the correct way to spell Jesus in trying to get as close as possible as to how the Messiah's name was pronounced in the Aramaic of his day. Some Messianic-Jews having been spelling it as Y'shua since the 1960s 99.169.79.198 ( talk) 15:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)