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An entire section has been voted to Fan involvement, which claims (among other things) that "Red Sox fans, known as Red Sox Nation, tend to have a more intense dislike of the Yankees than Yankees fans have for the Red Sox" and "It was not uncommon to hear the "Yankees Suck" chant at Fenway Park even when the Yankees were not in town."
Where is this coming from? Where are the references? What is the source of this information? This is original reseacrh in its most blatant form. This needs to go.-- Pac 04:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I disagree wholeheartedly. I have viewed several Red Sox (and Celtics) games this season alone, and the "Yankees Suck" chant is hardly diminished from what I remember it in the past. The paragraph overall is pretty much spot on from what I can see - and I definitely can't comprehend changing it to the wording chosen. - RPIRED 06:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Just my two cents as a Yankee Fan; I've been to plenty Yankee games and heard "Boston Sucks" being chanted by the Bleacher Creatures plenty of times, even when they aren't play the Sox. 67.80.238.240 02:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
We've had more than one occassion of someone trying to add Melky Cabrera's catch which robbed Manny RamĂrez of a home run at Yankee Stadium in June. While it was a nice catch that ultimately decided the ball game, we're pretty much all in agreement that it's not notable in the context of a significant "rivalry" moment. If there aren't any objections, I'm going to add a small note on this at the bottom of that section that will be visible to anyone who tries to add it - and we can leave it in there until the end of the season or so. - RPIRED 05:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I doubt that we'll be able to shape this one around to being a featured article someday, but I think we could at least turn it into a good article. We're going to need to work on weasel words as noted by Schi and start sourcing, well, everything, and we're probably going to want to find a few more pictures, but does anyone else have any interest on breaking out the polish and working to make this article shine? - RPIRED 19:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The article is a pretty interesting read, but it is hampered by easily-fixed limitations, most notably the weasel words. aww 23:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Had two different (anonymous) users post last night's doubleheader, the second of which was the longest 9-inning game in MLB history? It might be significant enough to post but there was some dissent last night. I reverted it the second time so it could be discussed first. Anyone? - RPIRED 18:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it is well-placed now in the context of the August 5-game series. aww 23:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Is this really relevant to the scope of the article? This part is clearly attempting to show the supremacy of Boston by villifying New York. I don't even think it's notable with regards to the Yankees Red Sox rivalry. "Since before the start of the American Revolution, Boston and New York had shared a rivalry. When the Sons of Liberty stirred up the flames of revolution in Boston, Tories (loyalists) in New York argued that America should stay loyal to the crown. When Boston was liberated from the English the citizens of Boston celebrated wildly. When George Washington faced defeat in New York, the people there welcomed the British troops with open arms." Deputydog23 17:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
As a Yankee fan in New York I had the same reaction as RPIRED - concern at first, but then the thought that it is actually a useful background to explain the uncommonly intense rivalry between the cities. aww 23:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Its this type of stuff that makes me never want to read wikipedia again. The link between a rivalry between sports teams is not established by colonial events. The events listed do not even establish that a city rivalry took place. This should be deleted.
I have twice reverted the inclusion of the 1941 feats of Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams. They had outstanding individual feats, but in the context of the rivalry, these are not worthy of inclusion unless DiMaggio ended his streak against the Red Sox or unless Williams did something against the Yankees that guaranteed his hitting .400. I also mention that I was referred to as a "moron" by the individual who insists on adding it. Despite WP:NPA, I am choosing to adhere to WP:NEWBIES in this case, however, I ask tht the individual not attack again. However I did want to put something on this talk page to see if there was anyone that felt that I was misguided in removing this reference as it was A) not a reference to a direct and significant Red Sox/Yankees event and B) not an event which signified a "milestone," like mentioning World Series results despite the two teams never being able to meet in the World Series. DiMaggio and Williams had great seasons, but that's what they were - great seasons. It's not notable in the context of the rivalry. - RPIRED 11:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I've completed the merge from Yankees Suck to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry. Please review, and make sure it's up to standards. Thanks! Djdickmutt 19:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Albeit I am a yankees Fan, i do not like how much importance is placed on the catch in the article. Yes it was a great catch, but no one should say that one catch can put someone into the hall of fame. I believe that it does causes this article to no longer be neutral. ChrisArnold 02:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
This article is very bias towards the Red Sox. Please delete. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.177.27.90 ( talk âą contribs) 28:37, January 1, 2007 (UTC).
I concur, extremely biased.
Very nice job all involved! A very balanced article on a subject I expected to see some real flaming on! Well done from this Sox fan.-- Lepeu1999 21:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Noticing that the "key moments" section is getting very cluttered with stuff, some of it not as noteworthy as others. My recommendations are below.
Let me know what you think. RPIRED 21:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I restored the reference to twin victories in the "1918" and "Boston Sucks" chants section. One victory was over NY, the other was for the series so both relevant. IrishGuy talk 00:53, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
For the key moments section - is this weekend's sweep notable? As noted already, it is the first Red Sox sweep at Fenway against the Yankees since 1990, and in tonight's game, there was a historic element as Manny RamĂrez, J.D. Drew, Mike Lowell, and Jason Varitek hit back-to-back-to-back-to-back dingers. Wanted to open discussion to adding it so quickly - I suspect that at the very least, the 4 straight homers is notable as it is a historic event more unusual than a perfect game. So tonight's game at least should probably be mentioned. The sweep? I'm not as sure but I'm open to leaving it since it hasn't happened in so long, kinda similar to last September's "Boston Massacre." Thoughts? - RPIRED 03:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the sweep is NOT notable. The Boston Massacre was later in the season, when it had more significance, and also was 5 games, won by the away team, thereby making it a more notable feat. Also, 17 years isn't a huge amount of time for a sweep to not have occurred. HOWEVER, the four back-to-back-to-back-to-back homeruns definitely make it notable enough for mention.
Djdickmutt
06:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that while most of the prose of the article is written in the past tense, the Key moments timeline-esque section is written in the present. I would rather see it in the past tense. Is there any style guidance on this? Opinions? schi talk 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the hockey reference about the 2004 series. I fail to see the relevance to this article. IrishGuy talk 20:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I find the author's account of the Zimmer/Ramirez incident highly biased. Please describe ALL of the details.. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.190.152.194 ( talk) 05:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
Found out something relatively interesting today while working on the 1901 Baltimore Orioles season page. The first game in the history of both of these franchises came against each other, albeit with the Yankees in their original incarnation as the Baltimore Orioles. The game was played at Oriole Park on April 26, 1901, and the Orioles won, 10-6. The first game between the Highlanders and Americans is included in the history section, does this game matter enough to be added, considering that it was the first game ever for both teams? - RPIRED 19:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
"A 13-inning comeback win for the Yankees on July 1 was punctuated by a gaudy catch by Derek Jeter, who ran and dove into the stands at full speed and came out with facial lacerations." calling this catch "gaudy" is clearly an anti-yankee opinion and should be removed.
* June 3, 2007: The Yankees had entered the weekend series against Boston being 14.5 games back in the AL East, the most out of first place the Yankees have been during the Joe Torre era. They take 2 out of 3 games in the series. Boston set-up man Hideki Okajima blew his first save of the year when the Yankees tied it off a Robinson Cano triple. Alex Rodriguez hit the go-ahead homerun off of closer Jonathan Papelbon, propelling the Yankees to victory while handing Pappelbon his first loss of the season. Yankees closer Mariano Rivera, arguably the best in history, recorded his first save in nearly a month due to his struggles during the early part of the 2007 season. This propelled the Yankees to their biggest winning streak of the season up until that time.
It started a Yankee winning streak ? Okajima who is not a closer blew a save ? A closer gets his first loss of the season ? Rivera gets his first save in a month ? None of these things are rare events. What is the historical significance of this game ? Smacks of recentism and does not merit inclusion as a "key moment" in the rivalry.-- No Guru 17:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
An entire section has been voted to Fan involvement, which claims (among other things) that "Red Sox fans, known as Red Sox Nation, tend to have a more intense dislike of the Yankees than Yankees fans have for the Red Sox" and "It was not uncommon to hear the "Yankees Suck" chant at Fenway Park even when the Yankees were not in town."
Where is this coming from? Where are the references? What is the source of this information? This is original reseacrh in its most blatant form. This needs to go.-- Pac 04:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I disagree wholeheartedly. I have viewed several Red Sox (and Celtics) games this season alone, and the "Yankees Suck" chant is hardly diminished from what I remember it in the past. The paragraph overall is pretty much spot on from what I can see - and I definitely can't comprehend changing it to the wording chosen. - RPIRED 06:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Just my two cents as a Yankee Fan; I've been to plenty Yankee games and heard "Boston Sucks" being chanted by the Bleacher Creatures plenty of times, even when they aren't play the Sox. 67.80.238.240 02:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
We've had more than one occassion of someone trying to add Melky Cabrera's catch which robbed Manny RamĂrez of a home run at Yankee Stadium in June. While it was a nice catch that ultimately decided the ball game, we're pretty much all in agreement that it's not notable in the context of a significant "rivalry" moment. If there aren't any objections, I'm going to add a small note on this at the bottom of that section that will be visible to anyone who tries to add it - and we can leave it in there until the end of the season or so. - RPIRED 05:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I doubt that we'll be able to shape this one around to being a featured article someday, but I think we could at least turn it into a good article. We're going to need to work on weasel words as noted by Schi and start sourcing, well, everything, and we're probably going to want to find a few more pictures, but does anyone else have any interest on breaking out the polish and working to make this article shine? - RPIRED 19:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The article is a pretty interesting read, but it is hampered by easily-fixed limitations, most notably the weasel words. aww 23:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Had two different (anonymous) users post last night's doubleheader, the second of which was the longest 9-inning game in MLB history? It might be significant enough to post but there was some dissent last night. I reverted it the second time so it could be discussed first. Anyone? - RPIRED 18:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it is well-placed now in the context of the August 5-game series. aww 23:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Is this really relevant to the scope of the article? This part is clearly attempting to show the supremacy of Boston by villifying New York. I don't even think it's notable with regards to the Yankees Red Sox rivalry. "Since before the start of the American Revolution, Boston and New York had shared a rivalry. When the Sons of Liberty stirred up the flames of revolution in Boston, Tories (loyalists) in New York argued that America should stay loyal to the crown. When Boston was liberated from the English the citizens of Boston celebrated wildly. When George Washington faced defeat in New York, the people there welcomed the British troops with open arms." Deputydog23 17:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
As a Yankee fan in New York I had the same reaction as RPIRED - concern at first, but then the thought that it is actually a useful background to explain the uncommonly intense rivalry between the cities. aww 23:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Its this type of stuff that makes me never want to read wikipedia again. The link between a rivalry between sports teams is not established by colonial events. The events listed do not even establish that a city rivalry took place. This should be deleted.
I have twice reverted the inclusion of the 1941 feats of Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams. They had outstanding individual feats, but in the context of the rivalry, these are not worthy of inclusion unless DiMaggio ended his streak against the Red Sox or unless Williams did something against the Yankees that guaranteed his hitting .400. I also mention that I was referred to as a "moron" by the individual who insists on adding it. Despite WP:NPA, I am choosing to adhere to WP:NEWBIES in this case, however, I ask tht the individual not attack again. However I did want to put something on this talk page to see if there was anyone that felt that I was misguided in removing this reference as it was A) not a reference to a direct and significant Red Sox/Yankees event and B) not an event which signified a "milestone," like mentioning World Series results despite the two teams never being able to meet in the World Series. DiMaggio and Williams had great seasons, but that's what they were - great seasons. It's not notable in the context of the rivalry. - RPIRED 11:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I've completed the merge from Yankees Suck to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry. Please review, and make sure it's up to standards. Thanks! Djdickmutt 19:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Albeit I am a yankees Fan, i do not like how much importance is placed on the catch in the article. Yes it was a great catch, but no one should say that one catch can put someone into the hall of fame. I believe that it does causes this article to no longer be neutral. ChrisArnold 02:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
This article is very bias towards the Red Sox. Please delete. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.177.27.90 ( talk âą contribs) 28:37, January 1, 2007 (UTC).
I concur, extremely biased.
Very nice job all involved! A very balanced article on a subject I expected to see some real flaming on! Well done from this Sox fan.-- Lepeu1999 21:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Noticing that the "key moments" section is getting very cluttered with stuff, some of it not as noteworthy as others. My recommendations are below.
Let me know what you think. RPIRED 21:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I restored the reference to twin victories in the "1918" and "Boston Sucks" chants section. One victory was over NY, the other was for the series so both relevant. IrishGuy talk 00:53, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
For the key moments section - is this weekend's sweep notable? As noted already, it is the first Red Sox sweep at Fenway against the Yankees since 1990, and in tonight's game, there was a historic element as Manny RamĂrez, J.D. Drew, Mike Lowell, and Jason Varitek hit back-to-back-to-back-to-back dingers. Wanted to open discussion to adding it so quickly - I suspect that at the very least, the 4 straight homers is notable as it is a historic event more unusual than a perfect game. So tonight's game at least should probably be mentioned. The sweep? I'm not as sure but I'm open to leaving it since it hasn't happened in so long, kinda similar to last September's "Boston Massacre." Thoughts? - RPIRED 03:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the sweep is NOT notable. The Boston Massacre was later in the season, when it had more significance, and also was 5 games, won by the away team, thereby making it a more notable feat. Also, 17 years isn't a huge amount of time for a sweep to not have occurred. HOWEVER, the four back-to-back-to-back-to-back homeruns definitely make it notable enough for mention.
Djdickmutt
06:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that while most of the prose of the article is written in the past tense, the Key moments timeline-esque section is written in the present. I would rather see it in the past tense. Is there any style guidance on this? Opinions? schi talk 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the hockey reference about the 2004 series. I fail to see the relevance to this article. IrishGuy talk 20:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I find the author's account of the Zimmer/Ramirez incident highly biased. Please describe ALL of the details.. âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.190.152.194 ( talk) 05:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
Found out something relatively interesting today while working on the 1901 Baltimore Orioles season page. The first game in the history of both of these franchises came against each other, albeit with the Yankees in their original incarnation as the Baltimore Orioles. The game was played at Oriole Park on April 26, 1901, and the Orioles won, 10-6. The first game between the Highlanders and Americans is included in the history section, does this game matter enough to be added, considering that it was the first game ever for both teams? - RPIRED 19:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
"A 13-inning comeback win for the Yankees on July 1 was punctuated by a gaudy catch by Derek Jeter, who ran and dove into the stands at full speed and came out with facial lacerations." calling this catch "gaudy" is clearly an anti-yankee opinion and should be removed.
* June 3, 2007: The Yankees had entered the weekend series against Boston being 14.5 games back in the AL East, the most out of first place the Yankees have been during the Joe Torre era. They take 2 out of 3 games in the series. Boston set-up man Hideki Okajima blew his first save of the year when the Yankees tied it off a Robinson Cano triple. Alex Rodriguez hit the go-ahead homerun off of closer Jonathan Papelbon, propelling the Yankees to victory while handing Pappelbon his first loss of the season. Yankees closer Mariano Rivera, arguably the best in history, recorded his first save in nearly a month due to his struggles during the early part of the 2007 season. This propelled the Yankees to their biggest winning streak of the season up until that time.
It started a Yankee winning streak ? Okajima who is not a closer blew a save ? A closer gets his first loss of the season ? Rivera gets his first save in a month ? None of these things are rare events. What is the historical significance of this game ? Smacks of recentism and does not merit inclusion as a "key moment" in the rivalry.-- No Guru 17:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)