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@ Zero0000: While I agree that NOVA itself is not WP:RS, mainstream Bible professors speaking at NOVA are. The difference is subtle. tgeorgescu ( talk) 06:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
I am deleting this paragraph from the lead of the article and putting it here for discussion:
By the 5th century BCE, Yahweh had absorbed or subsumed the functions of the other deities within the Israelite pantheon, and monolatrism had developed in a minority of the Israelite population. Upon the Babylonian exile, monotheistic thought gained ascendancy, and Yahweh was declared the sole deity in all of existence,(sourced Albertz|1994|p=64) giving birth to Judaism.
I'm not opposed to covering the transition from Yahwism to whatever came after (personally I'd call it Second Temple Judaism rather than simply Judaism), but there are problems:
I assume that the section sourced to Albertz is correct, but the three other matters need to be dealt with first. Achar Sva ( talk) 10:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
As is being discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yahwism, the article is rather unbalanced in content and tone. It accepts a kind of mainstream "liberal" (I use the word descriptively, not pejoratively) biblical scholarship as the only word on the topic and ignores "orthodox" perspectives, which still exist rather robustly in the scholarly community. Jahaza ( talk) 21:38, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
Ref the removal of this 'Following the split from other Israelites, Yahwism also influenced Samaritanism via their continued belief in Yahweh as the one true God. [1]' The source is the Jewish Encyclopedia and is in the references list. In this article Yahwism is desrcibed as the religion of the Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Whilst on the Samaritans page we say that they are an ethnoreligious group who originate from the ancient Israelites. The Jewish claim is that the Samaritans veered from the path of Yahwism, the Samaritan claim is that they were its true inheritors. Both deserve equal mention. Here are some more sources https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/12/9/769/htm = Exploring Samaritanism—New Insights and Fresh Approaches Department of Classics and Religious Studies, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N5, Canada Religions 2021, 12(9), 769; https://doi.org/10.3390/rel12090769 Received: 19 August 2021 / Accepted: 23 August 2021 / Published: 15 September 2021
Also Authors: Anne Katrine de Hemmer Gudme Source: Religions ; Volume 11 ; Issue 2 Publisher Information: Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute Publication Year: 2020 Collection: MDPI Open Access Publishing See the reference to Southern and Northern Yahwism here.
Also https://eds.p.ebscohost.com/eds/detail/detail?vid=2&sid=9f6c867c-a2c8-493f-a60e-51c1ee2c15a3%40redis&bdata=Jmxhbmc9ZW4tZ2Imc2l0ZT1lZHMtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#AN=138634291&db=edb Authors: Hensel, Benedikt Source: Journal for the Study of the Old Testament; Sep2019, Vol. 44 Issue 1, p19-42, 24p Publication Year: 2019
Which states that 'The relationship of Judah and Samaria in the period from the 6th to the 2nd century B.C.E is currently still being described as an uninterrupted period of ongoing conflicts between Samarian and Judean YHWH-worshippers. This article examines evidence which offers an entirely different picture of Samarian–Judean relations in the post-exilic period: in the Levant in post-exilic times, there were two homologous Yahwisms in Judah and Samaria which existed side by side. It is for this reason that, when studying this formative period, scholars should give due consideration not only to Judah, but also to the North as well.'
I don't mind if we restore the removed wording, or add something to state that there are other views that Samaritanism can be regarded as emerging from a separate branch of Yahwism. However we do have to include the Samaritan view in some way. Regards Pngeditor ( talk) 09:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC) Pngeditor ( talk) 09:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Another Samaritan tradition claims Samaritan origins lie in the pre-exilic period, at the very beginnings of Israelite history, and that the split between Samaritanism and Judaism only arose when the heretical priest Eli stole the Ark of the Covenant and established a rival cult. Until that time, the Ark of the Covenant had been kept at the sanctuary of YHWH on Mt. Gerizim. According to this tradition, the priest Eli was prevented from rising to the high priesthood because he was of the family of Itamar, not the high priestly family of Eleazar. Nevertheless, he took the Ark of the Covenant from Mt. Gerizim to Shiloh and established a rival cult there. As a result of this, two centers of the priesthood arose. One center was on Mt. Gerizim, at whose head stood the legitimate high priest, Uzzi (a descendant of Phineas and of the family Eleazar). The second (heretical) priesthood was at Shiloh, and the priest Eli, a descendant of Itamar, was at its head. Thus, according to Samaritan tradition, Samaritanism is a perpetuation of the true Israelite faith, and Judaism only the continuation of Eli’s heresy. This is the case, the Samaritan tradition claims, all the way through Samuel, Saul, David, and the Judaean monarchy, with the rival cult of Eli eventually shifting from Shiloh to Jerusalem and continuing up to this day.
I.e., Samaritanism isn't a useful term BEFORE the split with Judaism for Samaritan claims, as they state that their beliefs did not change. That is why I tried to reflect their view. How about I add this as 'Following the split from Judaism, Yahwism also influenced Samaritanism via their continued belief in Yahweh as the one true God. [2]' Or shall I can simply add the word Samaritanism after Second Temple Judaism? Wouldn't it be more helpful to direct me to where I can see how to use this method of sourcing, rather than a general explanation? There are so many methods used, I can't find the exact one used here.Regards Pngeditor ( talk) 11:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
References
I don't know much but even I can tell this article is a bunch of nonsense. I wish I could do something about it, but like I said, I don't know much. I barely found this place to comment. 2600:1700:6B1:5EE0:F043:99CE:8DE6:42BD ( talk) 02:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
This thread is about sourcing for the following sentence: " Yahweh, however, was not the 'original' god of Israel; it is El, the head of the Canaanite pantheon, whose name forms the basis of the name "Israel"..." The source is Smith, "The Early History of God" (2002), page 32. That page begins: "The original god of Israel was El." (Note the absence of a capital for god). If El was the original god of Israel then it follows that Yahweh was not. Skipping the next sentence, then third says: "[...]the name of Israel is not a Yahwistic name [meaning not a name formed on the divine name Yahweh], but an El name [one formed on the name El], with the element 'el". So far as I can see, that supports our sentence. Achar Sva ( talk) 23:38, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
"Yahwism" is not the appropriate term for the polytheistic religion practiced in the area for most of the kingdoms' history. Yahwism should be used to refer to the henotheistic/monolatristic religious ideology centered on Yahweh alone, expressed by prophets and culminating in the reformed religion established during Josiah's reign. Mnd5trm ( talk) 20:20, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Szirtyu: this has been discussed numerous times. Most recently "Article balance" and several other places on current on this talk page and in the archive. Why should your attempt to redefine the article be treated differently?-- Ermenrich ( talk) 16:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello,
I have attempted to make the following edit to the lead. It has been reverted as it is described as a “fringe view”, however I disagree with this assertion. Yahwism is understood to have been polytheistic in its earlier form, and monotheistic in its later form. However, the lead currently begins by defining Yahwism as ‘essentially polytheistic’, which I find misleading. My suggestion for the lead reads as follows:
Yahwism is the name given by modern scholars to the religion of ancient Israel and Judah. According to one definition, Yahwism was essentially polytheistic, with a pantheon of gods and goddesses. Heading the pantheon was Yahweh, the national god of the Israelite kingdoms of Israeland Judah, with his consort, the goddess Asherah, and second-tier gods and goddesses such as Baal, Shamash, Yarikh, Mot, and Astarte, each of whom had their own priests and prophets and numbered royalty among their devotees. According to another definition, Yahwism is monotheistic and corresponds to the religion of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible, involving the worship of Yahweh as the God of Abraham.
The practices of Yahwism in its polytheistic state included festivals, sacrifices, vow-making, private rituals, and the adjudication of legal disputes. Contrary to the depiction of Yahwism in the Hebrew Bible, polytheistic Yahwism held that the Temple in Jerusalem was not the sole, or even central, temple of Yahweh, but the king was the head of the national religion and thus the viceroy on Earth of the national god, a role reflected each year when he presided over a ceremony enthroning Yahweh in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
References provided in the 21 December 2023 16:51 version:
1. https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1272&context=wes_theses
2. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/030908929201705415
3. https://uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/4290/Spangenberg.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
5. https://www.gotquestions.org/Yahwism-Yahwist.html
6. https://muse.jhu.edu/article/717990
7. https://helda.helsinki.fi/server/api/core/bitstreams/a58a069e-60fc-42f0-b778-ce934c4cb241/content Szirtyu ( talk) 17:04, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
The Deuteronomists and nomists did not represent the entire society. We are mainly dealing with a small group of people, whose ideas were adopted by all Jewish communities only slowly, perhaps only after centuries. It is thus probable that the worship of other divinities continued in many Yahwistic contexts much after these texts were written. For example, it is unlikely that Asherah would have been abandoned in all contexts immediately after 587 bce. For everyone her cult was not dependent on the temple in Jerusalem.
I checked a few of the sources given, and wow, context is important people. You can’t just make a source say what you want it to say, if it in fact DOES NOT SAY THAT. This whole thing clearly has a motive to disprove the Hebrew religion and i would say even could be called anti-semitic. it takes things vastly out of context and pushes a narrative that IS included in the bible, but misrepresents it. all the god’s of this so called “hierarchy” are commonly mentioned as worshipped by the people, and incorporated into a false religion, but that was just it, it was a false bastardized version of the Hebrew religion. This bastardized religion was not the true form of the religion that worshipped Yahweh. Most of the sources cited are used out of context to suggest this is the case. There are also articles of “Yahwism vs Baalism” which, if Baal is a 2nd tier God of Yahwism, doesn’t even make sense.
this article is a pathetic attempt to slander and discredit the Hebrew religion (Judaism) and Christianity. This is dangerous and needs to be fixed. 71.201.50.216 ( talk) 21:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
this article, which seeks to explain the precursor religion of Judaism and Christianity
While I appreciate that Wikipedia tends to take a fairly skeptical, post-enlightenment view of religion, I would suggest that this article should at least acknowledge the fact that major contingents of the various Abrahamic faiths disagree with much of what is written in this article. While I don't expect for Wikipedia to endorse their disagreement, I would argue that their disagreement is noteworthy and should at least be prominently mentioned in passing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.67.36 ( talk) 18:49, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
While I appreciate that Wikipedia tends to take a fairly skeptical, post-enlightenment view of religion
I would suggest that significant cultural responses to the findings of academics are inherently noteworthy, and should be mentioned at least in passing.
To editor Félix137792: The statement uses WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. You might not like it, but that does not mean it's not compliant with WP:NPOV. tgeorgescu ( talk) 11:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Minority views are not banned. WP:FRINGE views are. While Wikipedia sticks to WP:RS/AC, that does not mean Wikipedia is opposed to shifts in the academic consensus (which happen outside of Wikipedia, anyway). tgeorgescu ( talk) 11:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Félix137792, while I am prepared to take your word for Frevel being in minority, I don't take your word for him being WP:FRINGE. Did his book get bad reviews overall (not just some)? tgeorgescu ( talk) 12:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
The name “God,” “El” in Hebrew, also belongs to this Northwest Semitic literary tradition.2 In Ugaritic texts, the god El is creator, king, and father.3 In the Deir Allah literary text, El behaves in ways similar to the Old Testament’s portrait of God. El is ubiquitous in West Asia, showing up in personal names found in Tell Amarna letters, in Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions, and in Egyptian topographic lists.4 “El” is one of the ways Israel addressed and understood God from an early period (Deut 33:26; Ps 68:36). Even the name “Israel,” found first in the 13th-century Merneptah Stele, displays the divine name El.5 Israel’s God has another name, however, “Yahweh.” Daniel Sibony calls this name “La plus grande création de la Bible hébraïque.”6 Yet, as Meindert Dijkstra writes, “The name and character of YHWH appeared out of the blue in the Ancient Near East.”7 No Yahweh appears in Ugaritic texts.8 Unlike Baal and El, ancient Palestine knows no Yahweh theophoric place-names.9
— Robert D. Miller II, nihil obstat, imprimatur
Source: Miller, Robert D.; Irwin, Christopher (2021). Yahweh: Origin of a Desert God. Forschungen zur Religion und Literatur des Alten und Neuen Testaments. Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. pp. 13–14. ISBN 978-3-647-54086-3. Retrieved 25 May 2024. Morals: even if we assume that it is true what Dever and Smith say, evidence is rather hard to come by. tgeorgescu ( talk) 14:07, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Yahwism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 3 July 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
@ Zero0000: While I agree that NOVA itself is not WP:RS, mainstream Bible professors speaking at NOVA are. The difference is subtle. tgeorgescu ( talk) 06:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
I am deleting this paragraph from the lead of the article and putting it here for discussion:
By the 5th century BCE, Yahweh had absorbed or subsumed the functions of the other deities within the Israelite pantheon, and monolatrism had developed in a minority of the Israelite population. Upon the Babylonian exile, monotheistic thought gained ascendancy, and Yahweh was declared the sole deity in all of existence,(sourced Albertz|1994|p=64) giving birth to Judaism.
I'm not opposed to covering the transition from Yahwism to whatever came after (personally I'd call it Second Temple Judaism rather than simply Judaism), but there are problems:
I assume that the section sourced to Albertz is correct, but the three other matters need to be dealt with first. Achar Sva ( talk) 10:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
As is being discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yahwism, the article is rather unbalanced in content and tone. It accepts a kind of mainstream "liberal" (I use the word descriptively, not pejoratively) biblical scholarship as the only word on the topic and ignores "orthodox" perspectives, which still exist rather robustly in the scholarly community. Jahaza ( talk) 21:38, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
Ref the removal of this 'Following the split from other Israelites, Yahwism also influenced Samaritanism via their continued belief in Yahweh as the one true God. [1]' The source is the Jewish Encyclopedia and is in the references list. In this article Yahwism is desrcibed as the religion of the Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Whilst on the Samaritans page we say that they are an ethnoreligious group who originate from the ancient Israelites. The Jewish claim is that the Samaritans veered from the path of Yahwism, the Samaritan claim is that they were its true inheritors. Both deserve equal mention. Here are some more sources https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/12/9/769/htm = Exploring Samaritanism—New Insights and Fresh Approaches Department of Classics and Religious Studies, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N5, Canada Religions 2021, 12(9), 769; https://doi.org/10.3390/rel12090769 Received: 19 August 2021 / Accepted: 23 August 2021 / Published: 15 September 2021
Also Authors: Anne Katrine de Hemmer Gudme Source: Religions ; Volume 11 ; Issue 2 Publisher Information: Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute Publication Year: 2020 Collection: MDPI Open Access Publishing See the reference to Southern and Northern Yahwism here.
Also https://eds.p.ebscohost.com/eds/detail/detail?vid=2&sid=9f6c867c-a2c8-493f-a60e-51c1ee2c15a3%40redis&bdata=Jmxhbmc9ZW4tZ2Imc2l0ZT1lZHMtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#AN=138634291&db=edb Authors: Hensel, Benedikt Source: Journal for the Study of the Old Testament; Sep2019, Vol. 44 Issue 1, p19-42, 24p Publication Year: 2019
Which states that 'The relationship of Judah and Samaria in the period from the 6th to the 2nd century B.C.E is currently still being described as an uninterrupted period of ongoing conflicts between Samarian and Judean YHWH-worshippers. This article examines evidence which offers an entirely different picture of Samarian–Judean relations in the post-exilic period: in the Levant in post-exilic times, there were two homologous Yahwisms in Judah and Samaria which existed side by side. It is for this reason that, when studying this formative period, scholars should give due consideration not only to Judah, but also to the North as well.'
I don't mind if we restore the removed wording, or add something to state that there are other views that Samaritanism can be regarded as emerging from a separate branch of Yahwism. However we do have to include the Samaritan view in some way. Regards Pngeditor ( talk) 09:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC) Pngeditor ( talk) 09:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Another Samaritan tradition claims Samaritan origins lie in the pre-exilic period, at the very beginnings of Israelite history, and that the split between Samaritanism and Judaism only arose when the heretical priest Eli stole the Ark of the Covenant and established a rival cult. Until that time, the Ark of the Covenant had been kept at the sanctuary of YHWH on Mt. Gerizim. According to this tradition, the priest Eli was prevented from rising to the high priesthood because he was of the family of Itamar, not the high priestly family of Eleazar. Nevertheless, he took the Ark of the Covenant from Mt. Gerizim to Shiloh and established a rival cult there. As a result of this, two centers of the priesthood arose. One center was on Mt. Gerizim, at whose head stood the legitimate high priest, Uzzi (a descendant of Phineas and of the family Eleazar). The second (heretical) priesthood was at Shiloh, and the priest Eli, a descendant of Itamar, was at its head. Thus, according to Samaritan tradition, Samaritanism is a perpetuation of the true Israelite faith, and Judaism only the continuation of Eli’s heresy. This is the case, the Samaritan tradition claims, all the way through Samuel, Saul, David, and the Judaean monarchy, with the rival cult of Eli eventually shifting from Shiloh to Jerusalem and continuing up to this day.
I.e., Samaritanism isn't a useful term BEFORE the split with Judaism for Samaritan claims, as they state that their beliefs did not change. That is why I tried to reflect their view. How about I add this as 'Following the split from Judaism, Yahwism also influenced Samaritanism via their continued belief in Yahweh as the one true God. [2]' Or shall I can simply add the word Samaritanism after Second Temple Judaism? Wouldn't it be more helpful to direct me to where I can see how to use this method of sourcing, rather than a general explanation? There are so many methods used, I can't find the exact one used here.Regards Pngeditor ( talk) 11:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
References
I don't know much but even I can tell this article is a bunch of nonsense. I wish I could do something about it, but like I said, I don't know much. I barely found this place to comment. 2600:1700:6B1:5EE0:F043:99CE:8DE6:42BD ( talk) 02:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
This thread is about sourcing for the following sentence: " Yahweh, however, was not the 'original' god of Israel; it is El, the head of the Canaanite pantheon, whose name forms the basis of the name "Israel"..." The source is Smith, "The Early History of God" (2002), page 32. That page begins: "The original god of Israel was El." (Note the absence of a capital for god). If El was the original god of Israel then it follows that Yahweh was not. Skipping the next sentence, then third says: "[...]the name of Israel is not a Yahwistic name [meaning not a name formed on the divine name Yahweh], but an El name [one formed on the name El], with the element 'el". So far as I can see, that supports our sentence. Achar Sva ( talk) 23:38, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
"Yahwism" is not the appropriate term for the polytheistic religion practiced in the area for most of the kingdoms' history. Yahwism should be used to refer to the henotheistic/monolatristic religious ideology centered on Yahweh alone, expressed by prophets and culminating in the reformed religion established during Josiah's reign. Mnd5trm ( talk) 20:20, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Szirtyu: this has been discussed numerous times. Most recently "Article balance" and several other places on current on this talk page and in the archive. Why should your attempt to redefine the article be treated differently?-- Ermenrich ( talk) 16:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello,
I have attempted to make the following edit to the lead. It has been reverted as it is described as a “fringe view”, however I disagree with this assertion. Yahwism is understood to have been polytheistic in its earlier form, and monotheistic in its later form. However, the lead currently begins by defining Yahwism as ‘essentially polytheistic’, which I find misleading. My suggestion for the lead reads as follows:
Yahwism is the name given by modern scholars to the religion of ancient Israel and Judah. According to one definition, Yahwism was essentially polytheistic, with a pantheon of gods and goddesses. Heading the pantheon was Yahweh, the national god of the Israelite kingdoms of Israeland Judah, with his consort, the goddess Asherah, and second-tier gods and goddesses such as Baal, Shamash, Yarikh, Mot, and Astarte, each of whom had their own priests and prophets and numbered royalty among their devotees. According to another definition, Yahwism is monotheistic and corresponds to the religion of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible, involving the worship of Yahweh as the God of Abraham.
The practices of Yahwism in its polytheistic state included festivals, sacrifices, vow-making, private rituals, and the adjudication of legal disputes. Contrary to the depiction of Yahwism in the Hebrew Bible, polytheistic Yahwism held that the Temple in Jerusalem was not the sole, or even central, temple of Yahweh, but the king was the head of the national religion and thus the viceroy on Earth of the national god, a role reflected each year when he presided over a ceremony enthroning Yahweh in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
References provided in the 21 December 2023 16:51 version:
1. https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1272&context=wes_theses
2. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/030908929201705415
3. https://uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/4290/Spangenberg.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
5. https://www.gotquestions.org/Yahwism-Yahwist.html
6. https://muse.jhu.edu/article/717990
7. https://helda.helsinki.fi/server/api/core/bitstreams/a58a069e-60fc-42f0-b778-ce934c4cb241/content Szirtyu ( talk) 17:04, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
The Deuteronomists and nomists did not represent the entire society. We are mainly dealing with a small group of people, whose ideas were adopted by all Jewish communities only slowly, perhaps only after centuries. It is thus probable that the worship of other divinities continued in many Yahwistic contexts much after these texts were written. For example, it is unlikely that Asherah would have been abandoned in all contexts immediately after 587 bce. For everyone her cult was not dependent on the temple in Jerusalem.
I checked a few of the sources given, and wow, context is important people. You can’t just make a source say what you want it to say, if it in fact DOES NOT SAY THAT. This whole thing clearly has a motive to disprove the Hebrew religion and i would say even could be called anti-semitic. it takes things vastly out of context and pushes a narrative that IS included in the bible, but misrepresents it. all the god’s of this so called “hierarchy” are commonly mentioned as worshipped by the people, and incorporated into a false religion, but that was just it, it was a false bastardized version of the Hebrew religion. This bastardized religion was not the true form of the religion that worshipped Yahweh. Most of the sources cited are used out of context to suggest this is the case. There are also articles of “Yahwism vs Baalism” which, if Baal is a 2nd tier God of Yahwism, doesn’t even make sense.
this article is a pathetic attempt to slander and discredit the Hebrew religion (Judaism) and Christianity. This is dangerous and needs to be fixed. 71.201.50.216 ( talk) 21:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
this article, which seeks to explain the precursor religion of Judaism and Christianity
While I appreciate that Wikipedia tends to take a fairly skeptical, post-enlightenment view of religion, I would suggest that this article should at least acknowledge the fact that major contingents of the various Abrahamic faiths disagree with much of what is written in this article. While I don't expect for Wikipedia to endorse their disagreement, I would argue that their disagreement is noteworthy and should at least be prominently mentioned in passing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.67.36 ( talk) 18:49, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
While I appreciate that Wikipedia tends to take a fairly skeptical, post-enlightenment view of religion
I would suggest that significant cultural responses to the findings of academics are inherently noteworthy, and should be mentioned at least in passing.
To editor Félix137792: The statement uses WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. You might not like it, but that does not mean it's not compliant with WP:NPOV. tgeorgescu ( talk) 11:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Minority views are not banned. WP:FRINGE views are. While Wikipedia sticks to WP:RS/AC, that does not mean Wikipedia is opposed to shifts in the academic consensus (which happen outside of Wikipedia, anyway). tgeorgescu ( talk) 11:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Félix137792, while I am prepared to take your word for Frevel being in minority, I don't take your word for him being WP:FRINGE. Did his book get bad reviews overall (not just some)? tgeorgescu ( talk) 12:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
The name “God,” “El” in Hebrew, also belongs to this Northwest Semitic literary tradition.2 In Ugaritic texts, the god El is creator, king, and father.3 In the Deir Allah literary text, El behaves in ways similar to the Old Testament’s portrait of God. El is ubiquitous in West Asia, showing up in personal names found in Tell Amarna letters, in Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions, and in Egyptian topographic lists.4 “El” is one of the ways Israel addressed and understood God from an early period (Deut 33:26; Ps 68:36). Even the name “Israel,” found first in the 13th-century Merneptah Stele, displays the divine name El.5 Israel’s God has another name, however, “Yahweh.” Daniel Sibony calls this name “La plus grande création de la Bible hébraïque.”6 Yet, as Meindert Dijkstra writes, “The name and character of YHWH appeared out of the blue in the Ancient Near East.”7 No Yahweh appears in Ugaritic texts.8 Unlike Baal and El, ancient Palestine knows no Yahweh theophoric place-names.9
— Robert D. Miller II, nihil obstat, imprimatur
Source: Miller, Robert D.; Irwin, Christopher (2021). Yahweh: Origin of a Desert God. Forschungen zur Religion und Literatur des Alten und Neuen Testaments. Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. pp. 13–14. ISBN 978-3-647-54086-3. Retrieved 25 May 2024. Morals: even if we assume that it is true what Dever and Smith say, evidence is rather hard to come by. tgeorgescu ( talk) 14:07, 25 May 2024 (UTC)