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A fact from Wukan protests appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 26 October 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This is no longer a single "riot", it's a village rather than a city, and evicting the Communist Party of China officials from a village is a bigger event than "just rioting". IMHO we should give this a few days before thinking of a new name for the article. See WP:NAME for hints. Boud ( talk) 19:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
i'm starting a restructure. First the lead:
Here are some random bits that people might want to restore somewhere, but didn't seem right in the lead:
Other bits that i have removed and people may wish to restore in some useful place:
Boud ( talk) 13:35, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
It is true that this topic is related to a current event, but please have a look at the recommendations in WP:NEWS. This should read as an encyclopedia article. The chronologically latest "developments", if they are judged by reliable sources to be relevant, can be included in an appropriate part of the text - chronological sections normally start at the beginning and end at the end (most recent significant event), but the article as a whole is not just a chronological list of events.
I shifted the "latest development" section into what seemed to be the right place, essentially without modifying it much. Other Wikipedians might judge it to be either less or more important - but that will be easiest with the text in the right place. Boud ( talk) 19:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I was initially indifferent about the move from Siege of Wukan to Wukan protests, but I tend to agree with Quigley's argument that the former name is rather narrow in that it accurately describes the 'second phase' of the protests, while the latter name more broadly encapsulates the overall dispute that started in September. I am noting that the zh.wp article is entitled '2011年陸豐烏坎事件' or '2011 Lufeng Wukan incident' – that name (use of the word "incident") is quite typical of similar articles in the Chinese language press. Before there is an edit war over the name, can we have some further discussion as to the merits of one over the other, please? -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 11:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
In this edit with the comment Hindu's redundant & historically ignorant assessment not worth note, the judgment of a mainstream newspaper of the world's largest democracy was removed. The international media section is WP:NPOV - the newspapers make the claims - en.Wikipedia does not claim that the newspapers are right. So i'm restoring the quote.
If there are RS's analysing Western and South Asian mainstream media's reactions to the events, then that could be used as another subsection. The role of at least US media in promoting US foreign policy interests is thoroughly documented as a general statistical property of the US media, and expected to be somewhat similar for other Western mainstream media - and presumably South Asian media too. But in the en.Wikipedia we don't have much alternative to using them - if external studies of their biases in particular cases have been made, then those studies can be used in individual articles as another part of the encyclopedic knowledge about the event. Boud ( talk) 21:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
The Longtou 1000-person tearing down of fences around a land-grab was announced by New Tang Dynasty Television, as reported online by Phayul.com. Another report is by Radio Free Asia. All three have obvious biases, though only the third is a direct governmental mouthpiece AFAIK. That's why we have to be careful to NPOV this. Maybe they are exaggerating or deliberately confusing Longtou (or Longtoucun?) in Shanwei with one of the many, many other Longtou villages/towns in the PRC. However (weasel word, but this a discussion, not article content), Google maps put the three Longtoucun roads (south, middle, north) as being about 9 km to the east of Wukan. This is credible as being a "neighbouring" village.
If anyone has better or conflicting sources, please add them. For example, if someone has evidence (RS) that the claim is an outright lie - e.g. a long online Longtou newspaper that is independent of national and local governmental authorities, etc., then please add that too - that would help NPOV the section. There should be enough zh-readers around to check zh-language sources. Boud ( talk) 21:29, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The RFA source - just half a sentence - http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/protester-12162011095739.html Boud ( talk) 21:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
If someone knows enough about precisely where Wukan and Longtou are, then editing the locations on WikiMapia (CC-BY-NC-SA) or OpenStreetMap (CC-BY-SA) could help sort out confusion on the issue: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=22.92302&mlon=115.64048&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF or http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=22.9160256&lon=115.6012344&z=12&l=0&m=b, respectively. OpenStreetMap is less developed, but CC-BY-SA is likely to develop more in the long term. This article (and talk page) are CC-BY-SA. Boud ( talk) 21:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
There is a list of image to import to the English wikipedia as soon as possible : zh:media:The_Wukan_Event_people_1.jpg, zh:media:Wukan_2011.jpg, zh:media:The_Wukan_News_reports.jpg, zh:media:Wukan_girl_2011.jpg Yug (talk) 13:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Is the word Siege really need, I don't think so. Yug (talk) 14:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
In the international media section, someone for the second time didn't like referring to a mainstream newspaper quote when the newspaper is not from the USA or the UK. This is not the UK_US.wikipedia.org, it is an English-language encyclopedia about the world. So a quote by a major South Asian mainstream newspaper is perfectly acceptable, along as it's NPOV-ed in the same way as for other mainstream English-language newspapers.
For people who have difficult clicking on The Hindu to learn more about the newspaper, here is a quote (without wiki markup) of the first paragraph in the lead:
Click on the Wikipedia article The Hindu to learn more and see the references. Boud ( talk) 15:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
The apparently peaceful resolution of the "land grab" crisis in the Guangdong village of Wukan has been hailed as Beijing's new model for tackling dissent. Last September, 15,000 peasants in Wukan in southeastern Guangdong province, began staging protests against cadres who had illegally sold their land to a real estate developer. No compensation was paid to the residents. After Xue Jinbo, a respected village representative, died in police custody on December 11, Wukan residents booted out the local party and police officials and set up barricades on roads leading to the fishing village. Guangdong authorities responded by surrounding Wukan with a few thousand public security and People's Armed Police (PAP) officers. Food, water and electricity supplies were cut off. ...
In the Chinese world, blaming the West is an old standby. Mao’s censure of “imperialism and its running dogs,” crusades in the ’80s to eradicate “spiritual pollution” and “bourgeois liberalism,” and a cadre’s 2011 denunciation of the meddling foreign press during a prolonged “mass incident” in the village of Wukan are modern-day expressions of the millennia-old notion that China represents the pinnacle of civilization and is surrounded by marauding barbarians.
See Land grabbing 99.19.45.64 ( talk) 04:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Would there be any opposition to renaming this article "Wukan protests"? "Protests of Wukan" sounds as though the villagers might be protesting against Wukan. Homunculus ( duihua) 18:00, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I think that the information cited from this article is problematic and I would like to delete it, but I think that some editors might disagree. This source is confusing (and possibly misleading) for two reasons.
If any editor disagrees with the deletion of this article and its information, and can interpret the article better than I am able to, please let me know and tell me why it should be retained. Ferox Seneca ( talk) 06:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
"Wukan villagers' experiment with democracy has been hard going" published today in the South China Morning Post. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 14:43, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-wukan-idUSKCN0Z405O?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
"directly elected and popular village chief Lin Zuluan had been arrested for abusing his position to take bribes."
"A villager who declined to be identified said that outraged villagers tried to surround the local police station in protest.Hundreds of riot police and other security personnel swarmed into the village, however, and several arrests were made." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 ( talk) 05:34, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
The word "democracy" appears twice in the article, and not at all in the lead section. Democracy is why this event is so notable, yet you wouldn't know it. Just reads like another confusing backwater unrest over corruption. -- Green C 19:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
The lead says 12,000. The body says 20,000. The Wukan article says 13,000. cshirky ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:47, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Wukan protests appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 26 October 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This is no longer a single "riot", it's a village rather than a city, and evicting the Communist Party of China officials from a village is a bigger event than "just rioting". IMHO we should give this a few days before thinking of a new name for the article. See WP:NAME for hints. Boud ( talk) 19:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
i'm starting a restructure. First the lead:
Here are some random bits that people might want to restore somewhere, but didn't seem right in the lead:
Other bits that i have removed and people may wish to restore in some useful place:
Boud ( talk) 13:35, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
It is true that this topic is related to a current event, but please have a look at the recommendations in WP:NEWS. This should read as an encyclopedia article. The chronologically latest "developments", if they are judged by reliable sources to be relevant, can be included in an appropriate part of the text - chronological sections normally start at the beginning and end at the end (most recent significant event), but the article as a whole is not just a chronological list of events.
I shifted the "latest development" section into what seemed to be the right place, essentially without modifying it much. Other Wikipedians might judge it to be either less or more important - but that will be easiest with the text in the right place. Boud ( talk) 19:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I was initially indifferent about the move from Siege of Wukan to Wukan protests, but I tend to agree with Quigley's argument that the former name is rather narrow in that it accurately describes the 'second phase' of the protests, while the latter name more broadly encapsulates the overall dispute that started in September. I am noting that the zh.wp article is entitled '2011年陸豐烏坎事件' or '2011 Lufeng Wukan incident' – that name (use of the word "incident") is quite typical of similar articles in the Chinese language press. Before there is an edit war over the name, can we have some further discussion as to the merits of one over the other, please? -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 11:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
In this edit with the comment Hindu's redundant & historically ignorant assessment not worth note, the judgment of a mainstream newspaper of the world's largest democracy was removed. The international media section is WP:NPOV - the newspapers make the claims - en.Wikipedia does not claim that the newspapers are right. So i'm restoring the quote.
If there are RS's analysing Western and South Asian mainstream media's reactions to the events, then that could be used as another subsection. The role of at least US media in promoting US foreign policy interests is thoroughly documented as a general statistical property of the US media, and expected to be somewhat similar for other Western mainstream media - and presumably South Asian media too. But in the en.Wikipedia we don't have much alternative to using them - if external studies of their biases in particular cases have been made, then those studies can be used in individual articles as another part of the encyclopedic knowledge about the event. Boud ( talk) 21:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
The Longtou 1000-person tearing down of fences around a land-grab was announced by New Tang Dynasty Television, as reported online by Phayul.com. Another report is by Radio Free Asia. All three have obvious biases, though only the third is a direct governmental mouthpiece AFAIK. That's why we have to be careful to NPOV this. Maybe they are exaggerating or deliberately confusing Longtou (or Longtoucun?) in Shanwei with one of the many, many other Longtou villages/towns in the PRC. However (weasel word, but this a discussion, not article content), Google maps put the three Longtoucun roads (south, middle, north) as being about 9 km to the east of Wukan. This is credible as being a "neighbouring" village.
If anyone has better or conflicting sources, please add them. For example, if someone has evidence (RS) that the claim is an outright lie - e.g. a long online Longtou newspaper that is independent of national and local governmental authorities, etc., then please add that too - that would help NPOV the section. There should be enough zh-readers around to check zh-language sources. Boud ( talk) 21:29, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The RFA source - just half a sentence - http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/protester-12162011095739.html Boud ( talk) 21:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
If someone knows enough about precisely where Wukan and Longtou are, then editing the locations on WikiMapia (CC-BY-NC-SA) or OpenStreetMap (CC-BY-SA) could help sort out confusion on the issue: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=22.92302&mlon=115.64048&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF or http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=22.9160256&lon=115.6012344&z=12&l=0&m=b, respectively. OpenStreetMap is less developed, but CC-BY-SA is likely to develop more in the long term. This article (and talk page) are CC-BY-SA. Boud ( talk) 21:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
There is a list of image to import to the English wikipedia as soon as possible : zh:media:The_Wukan_Event_people_1.jpg, zh:media:Wukan_2011.jpg, zh:media:The_Wukan_News_reports.jpg, zh:media:Wukan_girl_2011.jpg Yug (talk) 13:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Is the word Siege really need, I don't think so. Yug (talk) 14:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
In the international media section, someone for the second time didn't like referring to a mainstream newspaper quote when the newspaper is not from the USA or the UK. This is not the UK_US.wikipedia.org, it is an English-language encyclopedia about the world. So a quote by a major South Asian mainstream newspaper is perfectly acceptable, along as it's NPOV-ed in the same way as for other mainstream English-language newspapers.
For people who have difficult clicking on The Hindu to learn more about the newspaper, here is a quote (without wiki markup) of the first paragraph in the lead:
Click on the Wikipedia article The Hindu to learn more and see the references. Boud ( talk) 15:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
The apparently peaceful resolution of the "land grab" crisis in the Guangdong village of Wukan has been hailed as Beijing's new model for tackling dissent. Last September, 15,000 peasants in Wukan in southeastern Guangdong province, began staging protests against cadres who had illegally sold their land to a real estate developer. No compensation was paid to the residents. After Xue Jinbo, a respected village representative, died in police custody on December 11, Wukan residents booted out the local party and police officials and set up barricades on roads leading to the fishing village. Guangdong authorities responded by surrounding Wukan with a few thousand public security and People's Armed Police (PAP) officers. Food, water and electricity supplies were cut off. ...
In the Chinese world, blaming the West is an old standby. Mao’s censure of “imperialism and its running dogs,” crusades in the ’80s to eradicate “spiritual pollution” and “bourgeois liberalism,” and a cadre’s 2011 denunciation of the meddling foreign press during a prolonged “mass incident” in the village of Wukan are modern-day expressions of the millennia-old notion that China represents the pinnacle of civilization and is surrounded by marauding barbarians.
See Land grabbing 99.19.45.64 ( talk) 04:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Would there be any opposition to renaming this article "Wukan protests"? "Protests of Wukan" sounds as though the villagers might be protesting against Wukan. Homunculus ( duihua) 18:00, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I think that the information cited from this article is problematic and I would like to delete it, but I think that some editors might disagree. This source is confusing (and possibly misleading) for two reasons.
If any editor disagrees with the deletion of this article and its information, and can interpret the article better than I am able to, please let me know and tell me why it should be retained. Ferox Seneca ( talk) 06:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
"Wukan villagers' experiment with democracy has been hard going" published today in the South China Morning Post. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 14:43, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-wukan-idUSKCN0Z405O?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
"directly elected and popular village chief Lin Zuluan had been arrested for abusing his position to take bribes."
"A villager who declined to be identified said that outraged villagers tried to surround the local police station in protest.Hundreds of riot police and other security personnel swarmed into the village, however, and several arrests were made." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 ( talk) 05:34, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
The word "democracy" appears twice in the article, and not at all in the lead section. Democracy is why this event is so notable, yet you wouldn't know it. Just reads like another confusing backwater unrest over corruption. -- Green C 19:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
The lead says 12,000. The body says 20,000. The Wukan article says 13,000. cshirky ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:47, 6 February 2017 (UTC)