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This image, used on the page, includes a note from Orville Wright which indicates that he is calling the plane Kitty Hawk. It is clickable for a larger image. Was Kitty Hawk the name that the Wright's used for this plane and, if so, did they also name it, then or later, the Wright Flyer or was that a name used by others? Here is an article which includes, near the bottom, evidence that the plane was called the Kitty Hawk. Seems enough to include it as an alternate name, but is there information that it should be the official name with Wright Flyer being the common name? The Smithsonian includes Kitty Hawk Flyer as an alternate name (click 'long description'), but Orville's note doesn't include the word 'Flyer'. Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 00:27, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
THANK YOU, Randy, for highlighting this issue. And for these initial steps you've taken to correct the situation.
Any child who grew up as an avid builder of plastic model airplane kits knows very well that this most famous airplane is called the "Kitty Hawk". That's because this was clearly the name on the box: Google Image Search: kitty+hawk+wright+model+kit These ubiquitous kits, available all across the USA, spanned from the 1950s through the 1990s at a minimum.
And here is the motherload reference for the Wright Brothers' 1903 airplane being named the "Kitty Hawk":
This 'Wright 1903 Flyer "Operation Homecoming" Scrapbook' from the Smithsonian Institute has well over one hundred instances of this airplane being called the "Kitty Hawk". Furthermore, that is the name which is used exclusively throughout this document (with three rare exceptions cited below). Here are particular pages of note:
Here are the rare exceptions to where the aircraft is referred to by any name other than the "Kitty Hawk" (or "Kitty", or "Kittyhawk"):
This speech transcript is what I consider to be the STRONGEST reference:
Hap Arnold knew the Wright Brothers personally. One of the "Early Birds", he was taught to fly by them at their school. He was the only 5-star general of the US Air Force, along with being the winner of the first Mackay Trophy, and being a founder of Pan Am and Project RAND.
And then of course there is Paul Garber of the Smithsonian who oversaw Operation Homecoming. Garber was one of the foremost historians on the pioneers of flight. He personally accompanied the aircraft during its legs from Nova Scotia to Washington DC. He had approval authority over these aspects of the entire mission, to include the name by which the airplane was referred to.
This Smithsonian reference includes examples from many various newspapers which referred to this airplane exclusively as the "Kitty Hawk", including The New York Times, The New York Sun, The Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Washington Daily News, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, along with newspapers in Paterson, NJ, Dayton, OH, Omaha, NE, Scranton, PA, Albany, NY, Buffalo, NY, Nova Scotia, and Wellington, NZ.
Upon examination of the plethora of sources contained within this Smithsonian scrapbook, it indicates quite clearly that the PRIMARY NAME for this famous airplane is the "Kitty Hawk". And this was my first thought when I first happened across this article, many years ago: "I wonder why they aren't calling this plane the "Kitty Hawk". -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 02:13, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Given the understanding that this famous aircraft has been widely and commonly known as the "Kitty Hawk", it is important for this article to likewise include the legacy of things which followed that were also named "Kitty Hawk". This includes aircraft and spacecraft, ships (airplane/aircraft carriers), and schools.
(These following blockquote paragraphs can be skipped as largely being an aside, separate from the Legacy section being recommended.)
The aircraft naming story is particularly interesting. Aside from single aircraft being given the name "Kitty Hawk", there is the legacy naming of an entire aircraft type as the "Kittyhawk". Then there is the naming pattern observed within a particular aircraft corporation. Grumman, for example, is widely noted for using nicknames ending in "-cat". These are the Wildcat, Hellcat, Tigercat, Bearcat and Tomcat for the F4F, F6F, F7F, F8F and F-14 respectively. Continuing the "cat" theme, there was also the Grumman Panther, Cougar, Jaguar and Tiger. We can guess that when Grumman won the Lunar Module contract, there were strong arguments within the company to give this spacecraft a "-cat" name to continue this legacy. And when that didn't happen, there were 9 Apollo crews who flew these, with the commanders of Apollo 11, 12, 13, 14, 16 & 17 all having been Navy carrier pilots. In the case of Apollo 12 & 14, BOTH moonwalkers were Navy officers who had flown off of carriers. So any of these missions could have given their spaceships "-cat" callsigns. Neil Armstrong, Pete Conrad, Al Bean, Fred Haise, Alan Shepard, John Young and Gene Cernan all had flown Grumman "cats" off of carriers as their primary aircraft. The others (Lovell, Mitchell, etc) probably flew Grumman "cats" as a Navy test pilot. The best opportunity seems to have been Apollo 12, the All-Navy crew, with all three being Grumman "cat" veterans, with moonwalkers Conrad & Bean having flown the F9F Cougar operationally (VF-43 & VA-44 repectively), and the Command Module Pilot Dick Gordon having flown the F11F Tiger as a test pilot. [Edited 1/14]But that didn't happen. I've never seen anyone refer to the LM as the Lunacat, nor similar. These "Moon Sailors" never did that. And I've never heard this topic raised, nor any of the moonwalkers asked this directly. But Apollo 14 did name their Command Module the Kitty Hawk (made by North American Aviation, a company which curiously has the same initials as the "First Man", N.A.A.). In parallel with this entrenched history of Grumman "-cats", there is another aircraft company which has an extremely long history of using the "-hawk" nickname. Though I don't hear anyone discuss this one. The Wright Brothers started their own aircraft company. In later years, Wright Aeronautical merged with Curtiss to become Curtiss-Wright, a company which exists to this day, headquartered in North Carolina. You can visit their homepage, and that page shows you the Wright Flyer. Click on that image, and it says this:
- "Curtiss-Wright Corporation ... has a long history with its roots dating back to Orville and Wilbur Wright's first flight in 1903, and Mr. Glenn Curtiss, the father of naval aviation. In 1929, the companies founded by these three great aviation pioneers, the Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company and Wright Aeronautical Corporation, merged to form the largest aircraft company at the time..."
So it is this company which produced the P-40 Kittyhawk. Along with an entire line of "-hawk" aircraft, even predating the Wright merger. This includes the P-1, P-2, P-3, P-5, P-6, P-11, P-17, P-22, P-23, P-36 and AT-4 & AT-5 ...ALL named "Hawk". The P-40 is also known as the Warhawk and the Tomahawk. Various other Curtiss models were named the Seahawk, Sparrowhawk, Goshawk and Blackhawk. Then there was the Dayton-Wright XO-3 Mohawk [...along with the Curtiss Mohawk (Commonwealth P-36's) -Edit 1/15]. (Other companies have produced airplanes named the Skyhawk, Nighthawk, Jayhawk, and most recently the Red Hawk, along with the Hawkeye, and the more obscure Hawk Junior. Helo nicknames include the Black Hawk, Seahawk, Pave Hawk, Jayhawk and SpeedHawk. Pilotless aircraft have been named the Global Hawk, T-Hawk and SpyHawk.)
Now I am not aware of these Hawk-themed aircraft nicknames as being connected with the Wright Brothers, or was done in tribute to them (with the obvious exception being the Kittyhawk). But I do see it to be important to have this mentioned here in the Talk page in case anyone were to find a reference where it is stated that there is some connection or tribute. If that were to be found, then it would be important to include that in the Legacy section.
One could even go so far as to identify commonality between these two different families of aircraft nicknames, both the -cat and -hawk traditions. The name "Kitty Hawk" has connotations of both -cat and -hawk. And then there is likewise commonality in the launching mechanism used by the Wright brothers, as well as the Navy carrier jet aircraft from more than one company, the Tomcat, the Skyhawk, etc. These used what is commonly called a "cat launch", here with the term 'cat' being an abbreviation for 'catapult'. 'Cats' using 'cats'. But this peripheral connection goes far beyond the naming pattern topic. And this entire blockquote section can be set aside for current purposes.
For the time being, the recommendation being proposed is to add a Legacy section where direct connections are clear. This includes the specific aircraft and spacecraft named the Kitty Hawk, along with the ships, and even one school in Texas, where the students at Kitty Hawk Middle School in San Antonio are known as The Flyers. This school is located on Kitty Hawk Rd. And this road is one mile from the Main Entrance at Randolph, Air Force Base, the famous pilot training base that was given the nickname "West Point of the Air". Another school, back at the Outer Banks, is First Flight High School, with their mascot being the Nighthawks, yet another -hawk themed name. Across the street is First Flight Middle School, where they are the Seahawks, and also First Flight Elementary, the Flyers. All three of these schools are adjacent to the Wright Brothers Memorial, with statue of the airplane being even closer.
Another excellent subsection for this would include mention of these statues of the Kitty Hawk, like this other one at Embry-Riddle in Daytona, Florida, in Chanute, Kansas, at Maxwell AFB, AL, etc. At least citing the most prominent ones. It seems to be a fitting complement to the Reproductions section.
And there's also the "Kitty Hawk Air Society" of the US Air Force Junior ROTC. Here's one page of theirs: with pin photo showing the Wright Flyer.
Far more important, and arguably the most important of all of these, is the NACA ( seal), the 40-plus year predecessor to NASA itself. -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 23:30, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
OOPS. I now see that I misread your comment,
Graeme.
You were questioning:
Not Plane vs Place.
Here I do not see how the two can be separated. Again, the only reason why the plane is famous is because of the event. And I would assert that our biggest guide on that question is the fact that here on Wikipedia, this Wright Flyer article covers both. There is no separate article covering the event as distinct from the aircraft. We have articles on the inventors, the photographer, and the plane. Each of these discuss the event. But not a separate article for that. And so I see no need whatsoever for us to split out any such distinction. And I don't see how we would go about attempting to do that, even if someone saw that to be a productive effort. --
Wright Stuf (
talk)
16:39, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Here is what I see to be another excellent guide for us here...
This example of
The Spirit of St. Louis (disambiguation).
We have an entire section on
Charles Lindbergh#In popular culture.
I have not delved into this, but I would be shocked if anyone there attempts to split out any distinction between the aircraft vs the event. --
Wright Stuf (
talk)
16:47, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello Ahunt. Single aircraft which are named are italicized (Wright Flyer, Enola Gay, etc.). Saw you also removed italics from the name of a Space Shuttle and the Ingenuity helicopter, so wanted to let you know before other Space Shuttle pages are unitalicized. Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 21:48, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
All,
Why did editor Randy Kryn remove the short section about pieces of the Wright Flyer being brought to the Moon and Mars? His edit claims "there is an entire section about this at the page below" but it's not clear what "page" he is referring to. I no longer see any references to these in the article.
Certainly, the section as written was entirely accurate and now no information about the Wright Flyer pieces brought to the Moon and Mars appears in this article at all.
Strongly need this restored. TheGreyMouser2016 ( talk) 03:01, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
P.S. I now see that the "page" he was referring to is within the "Artifacts" roll-up subsection of this article. However, still need to understand why the Moon and Mars references are better hidden in an "Artifacts" roll-up section and not in the main body of the article. TheGreyMouser2016 ( talk) 03:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Stringfellow beat them. https://www.newscientist.com/definition/first-powered-flight/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.170.14.66 ( talk • contribs)
The U.S. Smithsonian Institution describes the aircraft as "the first powered, heavier-than-air machine to achieve controlled, sustained flight with a pilot aboard."[1]
They made the first controlled, sustained flight of a powered, heavier-than-air aircraft...
References
In the UK in a small village near Great Ayton there was a steam powered craft that half glided and half flew over a field a few years before the Wright brothers. It is not very well known but the wright brothers were the first to make a sustained flight back in 1903. I'm unaware of any other pre WB flight! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew James Gilbert ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
The article once again features a colorized image, in the Specifications section, as added by Wright Stuf in this edit. I believe the colorized and edited photo has no place in this article. I also remember this was the consensus in the talk page discussion last year, which I hope we do not need to reproduce here. I will remove it now. Ariadacapo ( talk) 19:45, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Vandalism - or perhaps an alternative explanation as to recent edits which have degraded article qualityThis article has been repeatedly
vandalized. And subsequent editors appear to be perfectly accepting of incremental deliberate damage that has been done. On Jan 12, well over one month ago, Ravenpuff did
THIS EDIT to the infobox, presenting the justification that being a
Featured Picture, this was somehow an improvement. Yet anyone doing a cursory comparison can readily see that this FP is actually an inferior version of the image. So it is obvious that FP was simply pretense for this deliberate vandalism. Now my own starting point when evaluating that edit was to AGF. But I stretched my imagination and could not arrive at any possible way that any editor could assess that this FP was an improvement over the Fully Restored version that got knocked out. Perhaps someone here might be able to present a scenario that is consistent with Good Faith. I cannot. It is extremely easy to see that the FP status had been conferred at least as far back as 2012. And that the Fully Restored version was not created until 2018. Had the Fully Restored version existed when the FP decision was being made, it seems quite obvious that FP status would have been given to that one instead. So why am I raising this issue about this Wright Flyer article being vandalized here in this section about photo colorization? Because Ariadacapo's edit from Jan 23, exactly 4 weeks ago, is yet another example of deliberate damage being done to the article, where subsequent editors have fully accepted this damage. If the actual objection was simply regarding colorization of the historical photo, then the edit which would be consistent with the goal of continual improvement of Wikipedia articles would be to simply SWAP the colored version with the black&white version, which was readily indicated over on the Commons. And who is the person who had uploaded that black&white version? None other than Ariadacapo. (B&w pic here.) The approach I myself decided to take upon observing these cases which were clearly damaging the article was to sit back and wait. My hope was that others here would, at the very minimum, raise questions to these editors who were inflicting the damage and give them opportunity to explain themselves. Ariadacapo & Ravenpuff, I am giving you that opportunity here and now. And this involves far more than just those two editors. This same question is being asked of you, BilCat, Ahunt, GraemeLeggett and Cullen328. If the four of you are objecting to Colorization, then why did none of you not simply swap the colorized photo for the historical black&white version? You all are denying anyone who comes here to learn about the Wright Flyer from seeing this image, regardless of form. And on top of this, there are all of the editors who let the degradation of the infobox image stand. That is two other editors, on top of everyone mentioned above. Of course, the central issue here in this section on Colorization is the question of Policy, which appears to remain unanswered. And the third issue being Consensus. I am starting my reply over here on the Talk by addressing Vandalism, because I see THIS to be the most immediate concern. I would hope that ALL of us, regardless of our differences when it comes to those other two issues, share the common goal of continually improving our article here. Any and all edits which deliberately inflict damage go against that goal, obviously. No one else here has fixed the infobox image. I intend to do that myself. And how this gets fixed goes back to the sticking point from one year ago regarding the issue of whether or not we, as a group, will choose to follow one of the most fundamental principles when it comes to editing: Consensus. After Vandalism, I see that to be the next priority on aspects here that need to be resolved. The way this was left hanging back in February of 2021, fully one year ago, was not a resolution. Not one consistent with Consensus, as I understand it. And not even with the Admin who intervened and presented an Essay which argued for Consistency Between Articles. I will hold off on that discussion until after this Vandalism issue gets resolved. If we cannot get this aspect under control, then we are walking backwards, no matter what our position on Consensus might be. -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 00:19, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
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This article uses the global dating system (dd/mm/yy). Why am I ranting about this? Well the flight, took place in Kill Devil, North Carolina, which is in the United States. The United States, however uses their own dating system (mm/dd/yy). I request to fix this. Please change all the dates in the article to fit mm/dd/yy. This is to give convenience to American readers. MLBFanAdrien ( talk) 02:08, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
This photo shows the Wrights and party(the men from the Life Saving Station) bringing the Flyer back to the camp after the fourth flight on December 17, 1903. The airplane is in a state of disassembly and transit with the rudder laying on the ground in back of the machine. The engine and props have stopped. The front elevator has been detached and is in a more upright position as it had been twisted over and semi crushed after the fourth flight. Importantly the machine has probably already been brought back several hundred feet from where it ended the 852ft flight by the time this photo was snapped. One can compare the photo with the more clear frontal photo of the machine just after Wilbur's landing.
Koplimek ( talk) 22:07, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:First flight2.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 17, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-12-17. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru ( talk) 23:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC) (UTC)
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The Wright Flyer, also known as the Kitty Hawk, made the first sustained flight by a manned heavier-than-air powered and controlled aircraft – an airplane – on December 17, 1903. Invented and flown by the Wright brothers, it marked the beginning of the pioneer era of aviation. The Wright Flyer is a single-place biplane design with anhedral (drooping) wings, front double elevator and rear double rudder. It used a 12-horsepower (9-kilowatt) gasoline engine powering two pusher propellers. Employing " wing warping", it was relatively unstable and very difficult to fly. The Wright brothers flew it four times in a location south of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. The airplane flew 852 feet (260 m) on its fourth and final flight, but was damaged on landing, and minutes later was wrecked when powerful gusts blew it over. The aircraft never flew again but was shipped home and subsequently restored by Orville Wright. It was housed in the Science Museum in London from 1928 to 1948, and is now exhibited at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. This photograph, taken by John T. Daniels, a local member of the United States Life-Saving Service, shows the Wright Flyer seconds into its first flight in 1903. Photograph credit: John T. Daniels; restored by Lise Broer
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This image, used on the page, includes a note from Orville Wright which indicates that he is calling the plane Kitty Hawk. It is clickable for a larger image. Was Kitty Hawk the name that the Wright's used for this plane and, if so, did they also name it, then or later, the Wright Flyer or was that a name used by others? Here is an article which includes, near the bottom, evidence that the plane was called the Kitty Hawk. Seems enough to include it as an alternate name, but is there information that it should be the official name with Wright Flyer being the common name? The Smithsonian includes Kitty Hawk Flyer as an alternate name (click 'long description'), but Orville's note doesn't include the word 'Flyer'. Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 00:27, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
THANK YOU, Randy, for highlighting this issue. And for these initial steps you've taken to correct the situation.
Any child who grew up as an avid builder of plastic model airplane kits knows very well that this most famous airplane is called the "Kitty Hawk". That's because this was clearly the name on the box: Google Image Search: kitty+hawk+wright+model+kit These ubiquitous kits, available all across the USA, spanned from the 1950s through the 1990s at a minimum.
And here is the motherload reference for the Wright Brothers' 1903 airplane being named the "Kitty Hawk":
This 'Wright 1903 Flyer "Operation Homecoming" Scrapbook' from the Smithsonian Institute has well over one hundred instances of this airplane being called the "Kitty Hawk". Furthermore, that is the name which is used exclusively throughout this document (with three rare exceptions cited below). Here are particular pages of note:
Here are the rare exceptions to where the aircraft is referred to by any name other than the "Kitty Hawk" (or "Kitty", or "Kittyhawk"):
This speech transcript is what I consider to be the STRONGEST reference:
Hap Arnold knew the Wright Brothers personally. One of the "Early Birds", he was taught to fly by them at their school. He was the only 5-star general of the US Air Force, along with being the winner of the first Mackay Trophy, and being a founder of Pan Am and Project RAND.
And then of course there is Paul Garber of the Smithsonian who oversaw Operation Homecoming. Garber was one of the foremost historians on the pioneers of flight. He personally accompanied the aircraft during its legs from Nova Scotia to Washington DC. He had approval authority over these aspects of the entire mission, to include the name by which the airplane was referred to.
This Smithsonian reference includes examples from many various newspapers which referred to this airplane exclusively as the "Kitty Hawk", including The New York Times, The New York Sun, The Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Washington Daily News, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, along with newspapers in Paterson, NJ, Dayton, OH, Omaha, NE, Scranton, PA, Albany, NY, Buffalo, NY, Nova Scotia, and Wellington, NZ.
Upon examination of the plethora of sources contained within this Smithsonian scrapbook, it indicates quite clearly that the PRIMARY NAME for this famous airplane is the "Kitty Hawk". And this was my first thought when I first happened across this article, many years ago: "I wonder why they aren't calling this plane the "Kitty Hawk". -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 02:13, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Given the understanding that this famous aircraft has been widely and commonly known as the "Kitty Hawk", it is important for this article to likewise include the legacy of things which followed that were also named "Kitty Hawk". This includes aircraft and spacecraft, ships (airplane/aircraft carriers), and schools.
(These following blockquote paragraphs can be skipped as largely being an aside, separate from the Legacy section being recommended.)
The aircraft naming story is particularly interesting. Aside from single aircraft being given the name "Kitty Hawk", there is the legacy naming of an entire aircraft type as the "Kittyhawk". Then there is the naming pattern observed within a particular aircraft corporation. Grumman, for example, is widely noted for using nicknames ending in "-cat". These are the Wildcat, Hellcat, Tigercat, Bearcat and Tomcat for the F4F, F6F, F7F, F8F and F-14 respectively. Continuing the "cat" theme, there was also the Grumman Panther, Cougar, Jaguar and Tiger. We can guess that when Grumman won the Lunar Module contract, there were strong arguments within the company to give this spacecraft a "-cat" name to continue this legacy. And when that didn't happen, there were 9 Apollo crews who flew these, with the commanders of Apollo 11, 12, 13, 14, 16 & 17 all having been Navy carrier pilots. In the case of Apollo 12 & 14, BOTH moonwalkers were Navy officers who had flown off of carriers. So any of these missions could have given their spaceships "-cat" callsigns. Neil Armstrong, Pete Conrad, Al Bean, Fred Haise, Alan Shepard, John Young and Gene Cernan all had flown Grumman "cats" off of carriers as their primary aircraft. The others (Lovell, Mitchell, etc) probably flew Grumman "cats" as a Navy test pilot. The best opportunity seems to have been Apollo 12, the All-Navy crew, with all three being Grumman "cat" veterans, with moonwalkers Conrad & Bean having flown the F9F Cougar operationally (VF-43 & VA-44 repectively), and the Command Module Pilot Dick Gordon having flown the F11F Tiger as a test pilot. [Edited 1/14]But that didn't happen. I've never seen anyone refer to the LM as the Lunacat, nor similar. These "Moon Sailors" never did that. And I've never heard this topic raised, nor any of the moonwalkers asked this directly. But Apollo 14 did name their Command Module the Kitty Hawk (made by North American Aviation, a company which curiously has the same initials as the "First Man", N.A.A.). In parallel with this entrenched history of Grumman "-cats", there is another aircraft company which has an extremely long history of using the "-hawk" nickname. Though I don't hear anyone discuss this one. The Wright Brothers started their own aircraft company. In later years, Wright Aeronautical merged with Curtiss to become Curtiss-Wright, a company which exists to this day, headquartered in North Carolina. You can visit their homepage, and that page shows you the Wright Flyer. Click on that image, and it says this:
- "Curtiss-Wright Corporation ... has a long history with its roots dating back to Orville and Wilbur Wright's first flight in 1903, and Mr. Glenn Curtiss, the father of naval aviation. In 1929, the companies founded by these three great aviation pioneers, the Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company and Wright Aeronautical Corporation, merged to form the largest aircraft company at the time..."
So it is this company which produced the P-40 Kittyhawk. Along with an entire line of "-hawk" aircraft, even predating the Wright merger. This includes the P-1, P-2, P-3, P-5, P-6, P-11, P-17, P-22, P-23, P-36 and AT-4 & AT-5 ...ALL named "Hawk". The P-40 is also known as the Warhawk and the Tomahawk. Various other Curtiss models were named the Seahawk, Sparrowhawk, Goshawk and Blackhawk. Then there was the Dayton-Wright XO-3 Mohawk [...along with the Curtiss Mohawk (Commonwealth P-36's) -Edit 1/15]. (Other companies have produced airplanes named the Skyhawk, Nighthawk, Jayhawk, and most recently the Red Hawk, along with the Hawkeye, and the more obscure Hawk Junior. Helo nicknames include the Black Hawk, Seahawk, Pave Hawk, Jayhawk and SpeedHawk. Pilotless aircraft have been named the Global Hawk, T-Hawk and SpyHawk.)
Now I am not aware of these Hawk-themed aircraft nicknames as being connected with the Wright Brothers, or was done in tribute to them (with the obvious exception being the Kittyhawk). But I do see it to be important to have this mentioned here in the Talk page in case anyone were to find a reference where it is stated that there is some connection or tribute. If that were to be found, then it would be important to include that in the Legacy section.
One could even go so far as to identify commonality between these two different families of aircraft nicknames, both the -cat and -hawk traditions. The name "Kitty Hawk" has connotations of both -cat and -hawk. And then there is likewise commonality in the launching mechanism used by the Wright brothers, as well as the Navy carrier jet aircraft from more than one company, the Tomcat, the Skyhawk, etc. These used what is commonly called a "cat launch", here with the term 'cat' being an abbreviation for 'catapult'. 'Cats' using 'cats'. But this peripheral connection goes far beyond the naming pattern topic. And this entire blockquote section can be set aside for current purposes.
For the time being, the recommendation being proposed is to add a Legacy section where direct connections are clear. This includes the specific aircraft and spacecraft named the Kitty Hawk, along with the ships, and even one school in Texas, where the students at Kitty Hawk Middle School in San Antonio are known as The Flyers. This school is located on Kitty Hawk Rd. And this road is one mile from the Main Entrance at Randolph, Air Force Base, the famous pilot training base that was given the nickname "West Point of the Air". Another school, back at the Outer Banks, is First Flight High School, with their mascot being the Nighthawks, yet another -hawk themed name. Across the street is First Flight Middle School, where they are the Seahawks, and also First Flight Elementary, the Flyers. All three of these schools are adjacent to the Wright Brothers Memorial, with statue of the airplane being even closer.
Another excellent subsection for this would include mention of these statues of the Kitty Hawk, like this other one at Embry-Riddle in Daytona, Florida, in Chanute, Kansas, at Maxwell AFB, AL, etc. At least citing the most prominent ones. It seems to be a fitting complement to the Reproductions section.
And there's also the "Kitty Hawk Air Society" of the US Air Force Junior ROTC. Here's one page of theirs: with pin photo showing the Wright Flyer.
Far more important, and arguably the most important of all of these, is the NACA ( seal), the 40-plus year predecessor to NASA itself. -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 23:30, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
OOPS. I now see that I misread your comment,
Graeme.
You were questioning:
Not Plane vs Place.
Here I do not see how the two can be separated. Again, the only reason why the plane is famous is because of the event. And I would assert that our biggest guide on that question is the fact that here on Wikipedia, this Wright Flyer article covers both. There is no separate article covering the event as distinct from the aircraft. We have articles on the inventors, the photographer, and the plane. Each of these discuss the event. But not a separate article for that. And so I see no need whatsoever for us to split out any such distinction. And I don't see how we would go about attempting to do that, even if someone saw that to be a productive effort. --
Wright Stuf (
talk)
16:39, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Here is what I see to be another excellent guide for us here...
This example of
The Spirit of St. Louis (disambiguation).
We have an entire section on
Charles Lindbergh#In popular culture.
I have not delved into this, but I would be shocked if anyone there attempts to split out any distinction between the aircraft vs the event. --
Wright Stuf (
talk)
16:47, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello Ahunt. Single aircraft which are named are italicized (Wright Flyer, Enola Gay, etc.). Saw you also removed italics from the name of a Space Shuttle and the Ingenuity helicopter, so wanted to let you know before other Space Shuttle pages are unitalicized. Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 21:48, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
All,
Why did editor Randy Kryn remove the short section about pieces of the Wright Flyer being brought to the Moon and Mars? His edit claims "there is an entire section about this at the page below" but it's not clear what "page" he is referring to. I no longer see any references to these in the article.
Certainly, the section as written was entirely accurate and now no information about the Wright Flyer pieces brought to the Moon and Mars appears in this article at all.
Strongly need this restored. TheGreyMouser2016 ( talk) 03:01, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
P.S. I now see that the "page" he was referring to is within the "Artifacts" roll-up subsection of this article. However, still need to understand why the Moon and Mars references are better hidden in an "Artifacts" roll-up section and not in the main body of the article. TheGreyMouser2016 ( talk) 03:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Stringfellow beat them. https://www.newscientist.com/definition/first-powered-flight/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.170.14.66 ( talk • contribs)
The U.S. Smithsonian Institution describes the aircraft as "the first powered, heavier-than-air machine to achieve controlled, sustained flight with a pilot aboard."[1]
They made the first controlled, sustained flight of a powered, heavier-than-air aircraft...
References
In the UK in a small village near Great Ayton there was a steam powered craft that half glided and half flew over a field a few years before the Wright brothers. It is not very well known but the wright brothers were the first to make a sustained flight back in 1903. I'm unaware of any other pre WB flight! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew James Gilbert ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
The article once again features a colorized image, in the Specifications section, as added by Wright Stuf in this edit. I believe the colorized and edited photo has no place in this article. I also remember this was the consensus in the talk page discussion last year, which I hope we do not need to reproduce here. I will remove it now. Ariadacapo ( talk) 19:45, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Vandalism - or perhaps an alternative explanation as to recent edits which have degraded article qualityThis article has been repeatedly
vandalized. And subsequent editors appear to be perfectly accepting of incremental deliberate damage that has been done. On Jan 12, well over one month ago, Ravenpuff did
THIS EDIT to the infobox, presenting the justification that being a
Featured Picture, this was somehow an improvement. Yet anyone doing a cursory comparison can readily see that this FP is actually an inferior version of the image. So it is obvious that FP was simply pretense for this deliberate vandalism. Now my own starting point when evaluating that edit was to AGF. But I stretched my imagination and could not arrive at any possible way that any editor could assess that this FP was an improvement over the Fully Restored version that got knocked out. Perhaps someone here might be able to present a scenario that is consistent with Good Faith. I cannot. It is extremely easy to see that the FP status had been conferred at least as far back as 2012. And that the Fully Restored version was not created until 2018. Had the Fully Restored version existed when the FP decision was being made, it seems quite obvious that FP status would have been given to that one instead. So why am I raising this issue about this Wright Flyer article being vandalized here in this section about photo colorization? Because Ariadacapo's edit from Jan 23, exactly 4 weeks ago, is yet another example of deliberate damage being done to the article, where subsequent editors have fully accepted this damage. If the actual objection was simply regarding colorization of the historical photo, then the edit which would be consistent with the goal of continual improvement of Wikipedia articles would be to simply SWAP the colored version with the black&white version, which was readily indicated over on the Commons. And who is the person who had uploaded that black&white version? None other than Ariadacapo. (B&w pic here.) The approach I myself decided to take upon observing these cases which were clearly damaging the article was to sit back and wait. My hope was that others here would, at the very minimum, raise questions to these editors who were inflicting the damage and give them opportunity to explain themselves. Ariadacapo & Ravenpuff, I am giving you that opportunity here and now. And this involves far more than just those two editors. This same question is being asked of you, BilCat, Ahunt, GraemeLeggett and Cullen328. If the four of you are objecting to Colorization, then why did none of you not simply swap the colorized photo for the historical black&white version? You all are denying anyone who comes here to learn about the Wright Flyer from seeing this image, regardless of form. And on top of this, there are all of the editors who let the degradation of the infobox image stand. That is two other editors, on top of everyone mentioned above. Of course, the central issue here in this section on Colorization is the question of Policy, which appears to remain unanswered. And the third issue being Consensus. I am starting my reply over here on the Talk by addressing Vandalism, because I see THIS to be the most immediate concern. I would hope that ALL of us, regardless of our differences when it comes to those other two issues, share the common goal of continually improving our article here. Any and all edits which deliberately inflict damage go against that goal, obviously. No one else here has fixed the infobox image. I intend to do that myself. And how this gets fixed goes back to the sticking point from one year ago regarding the issue of whether or not we, as a group, will choose to follow one of the most fundamental principles when it comes to editing: Consensus. After Vandalism, I see that to be the next priority on aspects here that need to be resolved. The way this was left hanging back in February of 2021, fully one year ago, was not a resolution. Not one consistent with Consensus, as I understand it. And not even with the Admin who intervened and presented an Essay which argued for Consistency Between Articles. I will hold off on that discussion until after this Vandalism issue gets resolved. If we cannot get this aspect under control, then we are walking backwards, no matter what our position on Consensus might be. -- Wright Stuf ( talk) 00:19, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
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This article uses the global dating system (dd/mm/yy). Why am I ranting about this? Well the flight, took place in Kill Devil, North Carolina, which is in the United States. The United States, however uses their own dating system (mm/dd/yy). I request to fix this. Please change all the dates in the article to fit mm/dd/yy. This is to give convenience to American readers. MLBFanAdrien ( talk) 02:08, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
This photo shows the Wrights and party(the men from the Life Saving Station) bringing the Flyer back to the camp after the fourth flight on December 17, 1903. The airplane is in a state of disassembly and transit with the rudder laying on the ground in back of the machine. The engine and props have stopped. The front elevator has been detached and is in a more upright position as it had been twisted over and semi crushed after the fourth flight. Importantly the machine has probably already been brought back several hundred feet from where it ended the 852ft flight by the time this photo was snapped. One can compare the photo with the more clear frontal photo of the machine just after Wilbur's landing.
Koplimek ( talk) 22:07, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:First flight2.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 17, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-12-17. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru ( talk) 23:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC) (UTC)
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The Wright Flyer, also known as the Kitty Hawk, made the first sustained flight by a manned heavier-than-air powered and controlled aircraft – an airplane – on December 17, 1903. Invented and flown by the Wright brothers, it marked the beginning of the pioneer era of aviation. The Wright Flyer is a single-place biplane design with anhedral (drooping) wings, front double elevator and rear double rudder. It used a 12-horsepower (9-kilowatt) gasoline engine powering two pusher propellers. Employing " wing warping", it was relatively unstable and very difficult to fly. The Wright brothers flew it four times in a location south of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. The airplane flew 852 feet (260 m) on its fourth and final flight, but was damaged on landing, and minutes later was wrecked when powerful gusts blew it over. The aircraft never flew again but was shipped home and subsequently restored by Orville Wright. It was housed in the Science Museum in London from 1928 to 1948, and is now exhibited at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. This photograph, taken by John T. Daniels, a local member of the United States Life-Saving Service, shows the Wright Flyer seconds into its first flight in 1903. Photograph credit: John T. Daniels; restored by Lise Broer
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