This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Women in post-classical warfare article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There seem to be some legendary figures and stories in the list along with the strictly historically verifiable ones. Should we keep both? If we do, we certainly need to identify clearly which incidents are historically verifiable and which are less so. Xan dar 21:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
and
Cunibertus ( talk) 10:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
The original text stated that she had formed the "woman's army" though according to the article on her she raised 70,000 soldiers to form the "Lady's Army" with her as general. Slight translation difference but does change historical accounts. Chalchiuhtlatonal ( talk) 19:21, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Should this:
1425-1428: Jacqueline of Hainault conducts a war against Philip III, Duke of Burgundy, over the succession to the County of Holland which Jacqueline had inherited from her father Count William VI.
Really be here? As far as I understand, Jacqueline of Hainault only issued a war the same way as any other female monarch did: she did not fight personally on the battle field. I thought this list was suppose to be about women who actually participated actively in warfare? If examples such as the above is allowed, well: then we can include virtually all female monarch that ever declared war with another country, could we not? That would make the list quite pointless, as this list is relevant because it lists the exceptions from the rule that women were not suppose to participate in war. So: should all the female monarchs in wikipedia, who's country was engaged in war during their reign, be included? We could start to add them any time. Great Britain was involved in a lot of wars during the reign of Queen Victoria-- Aciram ( talk) 13:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
As there are no objections to the conclusion in the discussion above since the last post, I trust it will be correct to adjust the text of the article and remove the people who did not participate in active warfare. The conclusion of the discussion is in short:
In accordance with the above discussion, I have begun to make the necessary changes. This list must be a list of exceptions, and female monarchs conducting war was in no way what so ever exceptions. The introduction text must be altered to specify that only women participating in active warfare are included in the list. Otherwise they are not exceptions and therefore their presence makes the list non-relevant.
In short, women who:
I trust no one have any objections to this. The changes are not big, but they are necessary to ensure the lists relevance and thereby survival here on wikipedia. The only thing to to is really to remove the female monarchs who did not participate in active warfare and to insert a "active warfare" in the specifications in who should be included.
In accordance to his, the article name should be altered to: "Women in active warfare and the military in the medieval era". This is a very small change, but it is a necessary one. -- Aciram ( talk) 12:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm using scholarly sources to add to this page. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.48.39 ( talk) 17:06, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
I believe this article does not meet the criteria required of a good quality Wikipedia article. It is a haphazard mix of historical references and myths, motivated mainly by feminist political propaganda, and not by the desire to provide quality source of objective information. To remedy that, I propose remove all unproven, mythical figures from the list, expand the article with broader, more in-depth analysis of the topic at hand, i. e. whether there were some military unit composed mostly of women (or mixed military units), what battles they participated in and with what results, etc. OR - change the name of the page so that it is clear it focuses on myth and folklore tales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kamamura ( talk • contribs) 12:57, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:06, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Women in post-classical warfare article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There seem to be some legendary figures and stories in the list along with the strictly historically verifiable ones. Should we keep both? If we do, we certainly need to identify clearly which incidents are historically verifiable and which are less so. Xan dar 21:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
and
Cunibertus ( talk) 10:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
The original text stated that she had formed the "woman's army" though according to the article on her she raised 70,000 soldiers to form the "Lady's Army" with her as general. Slight translation difference but does change historical accounts. Chalchiuhtlatonal ( talk) 19:21, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Should this:
1425-1428: Jacqueline of Hainault conducts a war against Philip III, Duke of Burgundy, over the succession to the County of Holland which Jacqueline had inherited from her father Count William VI.
Really be here? As far as I understand, Jacqueline of Hainault only issued a war the same way as any other female monarch did: she did not fight personally on the battle field. I thought this list was suppose to be about women who actually participated actively in warfare? If examples such as the above is allowed, well: then we can include virtually all female monarch that ever declared war with another country, could we not? That would make the list quite pointless, as this list is relevant because it lists the exceptions from the rule that women were not suppose to participate in war. So: should all the female monarchs in wikipedia, who's country was engaged in war during their reign, be included? We could start to add them any time. Great Britain was involved in a lot of wars during the reign of Queen Victoria-- Aciram ( talk) 13:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
As there are no objections to the conclusion in the discussion above since the last post, I trust it will be correct to adjust the text of the article and remove the people who did not participate in active warfare. The conclusion of the discussion is in short:
In accordance with the above discussion, I have begun to make the necessary changes. This list must be a list of exceptions, and female monarchs conducting war was in no way what so ever exceptions. The introduction text must be altered to specify that only women participating in active warfare are included in the list. Otherwise they are not exceptions and therefore their presence makes the list non-relevant.
In short, women who:
I trust no one have any objections to this. The changes are not big, but they are necessary to ensure the lists relevance and thereby survival here on wikipedia. The only thing to to is really to remove the female monarchs who did not participate in active warfare and to insert a "active warfare" in the specifications in who should be included.
In accordance to his, the article name should be altered to: "Women in active warfare and the military in the medieval era". This is a very small change, but it is a necessary one. -- Aciram ( talk) 12:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm using scholarly sources to add to this page. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.48.39 ( talk) 17:06, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
I believe this article does not meet the criteria required of a good quality Wikipedia article. It is a haphazard mix of historical references and myths, motivated mainly by feminist political propaganda, and not by the desire to provide quality source of objective information. To remedy that, I propose remove all unproven, mythical figures from the list, expand the article with broader, more in-depth analysis of the topic at hand, i. e. whether there were some military unit composed mostly of women (or mixed military units), what battles they participated in and with what results, etc. OR - change the name of the page so that it is clear it focuses on myth and folklore tales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kamamura ( talk • contribs) 12:57, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:06, 23 January 2023 (UTC)