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![]() | Annabelle Craft Moss was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 10 September 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Women Airforce Service Pilots. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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The user
Akradecki has vandalized the site by removing notable members of the WASPs. Please help article by preventing such vandalism.
-
Signaleer
22:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
It is unfortunate that a dispute has arisen over the notability of several names of WASP members earlier added to this article. Even though the disputed names do not as yet have their own WP pages, that by itself is not a valid test of notability. If anyone cares to do a simple Google search on any of these disputed names, there will be little doubt that all these women are indeed notable. Some have written books, some had books written about them, some were selected for special recognition in service, some had distinguished postwar careers, and all of them are included in various state or national "halls of fame." By any honest measure, all these women deserve to be included in any list of notable WASP members, and it is desirable that all of them soon receive their own WP pages as well. Jack Bethune 10:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The user Akradecki has manipulated the article, reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk%3AWomen_Airforce_Service_Pilots&diff=104916394&oldid=104814390
- Signaleer 23:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
He does not source it because the user Akradecki is a troll and thinks he knows the policy and causes disruption among Wiki articles. - Signaleer 20:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
The users Akradecki and Tom Herbert have made a poor judgment to remove the names of important WASP aviators that have contributed to their story and this article. They have deleted the names claiming that they, themselves do not know them and therefore should be deleted.
I will list sources of all the women who's names were deleted and some credible sources (e.g., military, collegiate institutions, government, and other various organizations) that have recognized them by posting it on their websites.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1531
http://www.firstflight.org/shrine/carl_hixson.cfm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/interview/carl08.html
http://www.amazon.com/WASP-AMONG-EAGLES-PB-CARL/dp/1560988703
http://www.amazon.com/Wings-Rockets-Story-Women-Space/dp/0374384509
http://www.awhf.org/crews.html
http://www.mooneymite.com/articles/crewscareer.htm
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/Crews.pdf
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1526
http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/AAHOF_Crews.html
http://www.ninety-nines.org/tjames.html
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1553
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/interview/james03.html
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/James_Teresa.pdf
http://www.janchurchill.com/on_wings_to_war.htm
http://www.wai.org/resources/2005pioneers.cfm
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1539
http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/eaglebios/91bios/london91.htm
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/London.pdf
http://www.wwiihistoryclass.com/transcripts/Erickson_B_295.pdf
http://www.ninety-nines.org/sharpie.html
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/sharp.html
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Story-Evelyn-Nebraskas-Aviatrix/dp/1886225168
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1560
http://www.nps.gov/home/historyculture/upload/MW,pdf,SharpBio,b.pdf
http://www.ninety-nines.org/WWII_reunion.html
http://www.twu.edu/TWHF/tw-strother.htm
http://www.wasp-wwii.org/wasp/resources/dora.html
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1536
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/primary/b2903.html
The reasoning for the removal of their names is pure vandalism and does not make any sense. There is plenty of evidence from online and hardcopy sources, to make the accusation that because their names are not on Wikipedia is not a valid reason for deletion.
- Signaleer 22:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
You two are both trolls and it is obvious you both did not take the time to research the information yourself before deleting, nor are you a subject matter expert of the WASPs and should not have been manipulating the article in the first place. - Signaleer 20:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Some things really don't sink in, do they? This discussion is moot. - Signaleer 22:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
On a happier note (;-), I'm just learning about the WAFS (ferry service) operation at New Castle Army Air Field. I note this article currently links to itself via the WAFS redirect. Is that intentional? Sdsds 03:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The image Image:Fifinella.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 05:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
One of the WASP websites says there should never be an 's' after WASP, as the acronym already contains the plural version of "Pilots". On the other hand, two of the referenced books have "WASPs" in their titles, so it's clear there are differing opinions. What plural form should be we using at this article? Or should we work around the question by using such constructions as "the WASP group lobbied Congress" instead of either plural form "the WASP lobbied Congress" or "the WASPs lobbied Congress"? Binksternet ( talk) 21:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to make this point--this is my first effort contributing to WP--but I believe the term being used in this article, Women AirFORCE Service Pilots, is factually incorrect. I've placed FORCE in caps because during WW II the organization was called the Women Air Service Pilots, and did not include the word force. Even though some of the sources/books used for this WP article use that term, during WW II it was not used. Check the Army's Official History volume, The Women's Army Corps, by Mattie Treadwell, published in 1954, for some of the background on this. If the name was changed sometime later, that ought to be clarified in the article. Dr Dan Kuehl National Defense University 202 685 2257 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daninfowar ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Womens Airforce Service Pilots is the correct title. That is what they were called by the Army Air Forces. Check Craven and Cates. SamMcGowan ( talk) 02:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The article states that Colonel (later B/Gen.) Tunner's original plan was to have the women commissioned as Air WACs. I have never seen this assertion in anything I have read in any of the offical US Army sources. Furthermore, I doubt that it is accurate since Tunner's role as commander of the Ferrying Division of the Air Transport Command was to hire civilian contract pilots to ferry aircraft. There was consideration of commissioning the WASPs late in their existence but that idea never really got off the ground. Volume VI of the history of the United States Army Air Forces in WW II, edited by Craven and Cates, covers the WAFS and the WASP program in some detail. SamMcGowan ( talk) 02:41, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion was started on User talk:Daniel Case and has been moved here Toddst1 ( talk) 18:47, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the name of this article Women Airforce Service Pilots might be incorrect. I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject recently and all the official sources seem to call them the Women's Air Service Pilots. [1] If that is indeed the correct name, what type of sources would we need to make the correction? And how does an article name get corrected? Thanks. Malke 2010 19:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
hide digression
|
---|
I haven't done anything wrong. Malke 2010 19:32, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
|
According to http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet_print.asp?fsID=1610&page=1, the original title was correct, and matches the photograph at http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070607-F-1234P-002.jpg. I've moved it back. -- SarekOfVulcan ( talk) 21:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
A selection of sources for the meaning of WASP:
A number of variations on the WASP acronym were used during and after World War II, including "Woman Air Service Pilots" and "Women's Auxiliary Service Pilots". There are two acceptable names for the WASPs: "Women's Air Force Service Pilots" and "Women Airforce Service Pilots". The first was the title given the program by AAF Memorandum 20-8 on August 5, 1943, and was the official title used by the War Department's Press Division. In 1944, AAF Regulation 40-8, Utilization of Women Pilots, used the name "Women Airforce Service Pilots." This was the name officially used by the AAF until the end of the war, and it is the designation used by WASP veterans to this day. Because of this, "Women Airforce Service Pilots" is the version I use throughout this study.
In case of doubt, I suggest that a printed book from a university press should be more credible than a government website that does not list any sources of its own. If needed, Google Scholar will probably come up with more academic references, or at least, things written by people who studied the original documents from the period. EdJohnston ( talk) 22:08, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
This article has lots of dead links. I substituted good links for the dead links to the Eisenhower archives, but someone more familiar with the subject should check out and repair the rest. -- CliffC ( talk) 01:45, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
An editor has been adding raw links that are related to this article, but not quite integrated. I'm depositing some of them here until they can be integrated into this article or separate articles about the individual aviators. Toddst1 ( talk) 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Women's Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron already redirects here. Women's Flying Training Detachment used to redirect here, but a small article was created. I recommend merging its content into here and creating a paragraph for each of these predecessor organizations. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 00:09, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
The file File:400-202xtra.jpg, used on this page, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons and re-uploaded at File:400-202xtra.jpg. It should be reviewed to determine if it is compliant with this project's non-free content policy, or else should be deleted and removed from this page. If no action is taken, it will be deleted after 7 days. Commons fair use upload bot ( talk) 02:15, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
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This part of the article:
[50] One of the pilots, while showing off, flew too close to Fort's plane and his landing gear collided with the wing of her plane, breaking part of it off.[51] The plane went into a nose-dive, killing her.[52]
is incorrect. Cornelia's plane collided with one operated by Lt. Frank Stamme over Merkel, Texas, as they ferried planes toward Love Field in Dallas.
He was not showing off. Source: "Daughter of the Air," by Rob Simbeck, 1999, Atlantic Monthly Press pages 227-9. NashContributor ( talk) 02:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Text and references copied from Elizabeth L. Gardner to Women Airforce Service Pilots, See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 17:00, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
It seems that someone accidentally removed a portion of the summary on this page.
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:13, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
In the paragraph about the WASP Museum, several aircraft types on display there are listed. All except one are given their proper, official names (BT-13 Valiant, rather than the frequently used "Vultee Vibrator," etc.) The exception is the UC-78 "Bamboo Bomber." This is a nickname, just as is "Useless Seventy-Eight." The aircraft's proper name is Cessna UC-78 Bobcat. 173.62.26.61 ( talk) 22:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the right place for a request but... Can a wiki-knowledgeable person perhaps edit her entry to include her passing date? April 26, 2000.
cafriseabove.org then / then shirley-slade-teer (have no idea why this page is not letting me simply post the link) Rmm8 ( talk) 08:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Women Airforce Service Pilots article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Annabelle Craft Moss was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 10 September 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Women Airforce Service Pilots. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The user
Akradecki has vandalized the site by removing notable members of the WASPs. Please help article by preventing such vandalism.
-
Signaleer
22:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
It is unfortunate that a dispute has arisen over the notability of several names of WASP members earlier added to this article. Even though the disputed names do not as yet have their own WP pages, that by itself is not a valid test of notability. If anyone cares to do a simple Google search on any of these disputed names, there will be little doubt that all these women are indeed notable. Some have written books, some had books written about them, some were selected for special recognition in service, some had distinguished postwar careers, and all of them are included in various state or national "halls of fame." By any honest measure, all these women deserve to be included in any list of notable WASP members, and it is desirable that all of them soon receive their own WP pages as well. Jack Bethune 10:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The user Akradecki has manipulated the article, reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk%3AWomen_Airforce_Service_Pilots&diff=104916394&oldid=104814390
- Signaleer 23:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
He does not source it because the user Akradecki is a troll and thinks he knows the policy and causes disruption among Wiki articles. - Signaleer 20:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
The users Akradecki and Tom Herbert have made a poor judgment to remove the names of important WASP aviators that have contributed to their story and this article. They have deleted the names claiming that they, themselves do not know them and therefore should be deleted.
I will list sources of all the women who's names were deleted and some credible sources (e.g., military, collegiate institutions, government, and other various organizations) that have recognized them by posting it on their websites.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1531
http://www.firstflight.org/shrine/carl_hixson.cfm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/interview/carl08.html
http://www.amazon.com/WASP-AMONG-EAGLES-PB-CARL/dp/1560988703
http://www.amazon.com/Wings-Rockets-Story-Women-Space/dp/0374384509
http://www.awhf.org/crews.html
http://www.mooneymite.com/articles/crewscareer.htm
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/Crews.pdf
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1526
http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/AAHOF_Crews.html
http://www.ninety-nines.org/tjames.html
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1553
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/interview/james03.html
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/James_Teresa.pdf
http://www.janchurchill.com/on_wings_to_war.htm
http://www.wai.org/resources/2005pioneers.cfm
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1539
http://www.au.af.mil/au/goe/eaglebios/91bios/london91.htm
http://www.twu.edu/wasp/London.pdf
http://www.wwiihistoryclass.com/transcripts/Erickson_B_295.pdf
http://www.ninety-nines.org/sharpie.html
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/sharp.html
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Story-Evelyn-Nebraskas-Aviatrix/dp/1886225168
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1560
http://www.nps.gov/home/historyculture/upload/MW,pdf,SharpBio,b.pdf
http://www.ninety-nines.org/WWII_reunion.html
http://www.twu.edu/TWHF/tw-strother.htm
http://www.wasp-wwii.org/wasp/resources/dora.html
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1536
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flygirls/filmmore/reference/primary/b2903.html
The reasoning for the removal of their names is pure vandalism and does not make any sense. There is plenty of evidence from online and hardcopy sources, to make the accusation that because their names are not on Wikipedia is not a valid reason for deletion.
- Signaleer 22:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
You two are both trolls and it is obvious you both did not take the time to research the information yourself before deleting, nor are you a subject matter expert of the WASPs and should not have been manipulating the article in the first place. - Signaleer 20:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Some things really don't sink in, do they? This discussion is moot. - Signaleer 22:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
On a happier note (;-), I'm just learning about the WAFS (ferry service) operation at New Castle Army Air Field. I note this article currently links to itself via the WAFS redirect. Is that intentional? Sdsds 03:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The image Image:Fifinella.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 05:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
One of the WASP websites says there should never be an 's' after WASP, as the acronym already contains the plural version of "Pilots". On the other hand, two of the referenced books have "WASPs" in their titles, so it's clear there are differing opinions. What plural form should be we using at this article? Or should we work around the question by using such constructions as "the WASP group lobbied Congress" instead of either plural form "the WASP lobbied Congress" or "the WASPs lobbied Congress"? Binksternet ( talk) 21:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to make this point--this is my first effort contributing to WP--but I believe the term being used in this article, Women AirFORCE Service Pilots, is factually incorrect. I've placed FORCE in caps because during WW II the organization was called the Women Air Service Pilots, and did not include the word force. Even though some of the sources/books used for this WP article use that term, during WW II it was not used. Check the Army's Official History volume, The Women's Army Corps, by Mattie Treadwell, published in 1954, for some of the background on this. If the name was changed sometime later, that ought to be clarified in the article. Dr Dan Kuehl National Defense University 202 685 2257 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daninfowar ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Womens Airforce Service Pilots is the correct title. That is what they were called by the Army Air Forces. Check Craven and Cates. SamMcGowan ( talk) 02:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The article states that Colonel (later B/Gen.) Tunner's original plan was to have the women commissioned as Air WACs. I have never seen this assertion in anything I have read in any of the offical US Army sources. Furthermore, I doubt that it is accurate since Tunner's role as commander of the Ferrying Division of the Air Transport Command was to hire civilian contract pilots to ferry aircraft. There was consideration of commissioning the WASPs late in their existence but that idea never really got off the ground. Volume VI of the history of the United States Army Air Forces in WW II, edited by Craven and Cates, covers the WAFS and the WASP program in some detail. SamMcGowan ( talk) 02:41, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion was started on User talk:Daniel Case and has been moved here Toddst1 ( talk) 18:47, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the name of this article Women Airforce Service Pilots might be incorrect. I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject recently and all the official sources seem to call them the Women's Air Service Pilots. [1] If that is indeed the correct name, what type of sources would we need to make the correction? And how does an article name get corrected? Thanks. Malke 2010 19:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
hide digression
|
---|
I haven't done anything wrong. Malke 2010 19:32, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
|
According to http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet_print.asp?fsID=1610&page=1, the original title was correct, and matches the photograph at http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070607-F-1234P-002.jpg. I've moved it back. -- SarekOfVulcan ( talk) 21:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
A selection of sources for the meaning of WASP:
A number of variations on the WASP acronym were used during and after World War II, including "Woman Air Service Pilots" and "Women's Auxiliary Service Pilots". There are two acceptable names for the WASPs: "Women's Air Force Service Pilots" and "Women Airforce Service Pilots". The first was the title given the program by AAF Memorandum 20-8 on August 5, 1943, and was the official title used by the War Department's Press Division. In 1944, AAF Regulation 40-8, Utilization of Women Pilots, used the name "Women Airforce Service Pilots." This was the name officially used by the AAF until the end of the war, and it is the designation used by WASP veterans to this day. Because of this, "Women Airforce Service Pilots" is the version I use throughout this study.
In case of doubt, I suggest that a printed book from a university press should be more credible than a government website that does not list any sources of its own. If needed, Google Scholar will probably come up with more academic references, or at least, things written by people who studied the original documents from the period. EdJohnston ( talk) 22:08, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
This article has lots of dead links. I substituted good links for the dead links to the Eisenhower archives, but someone more familiar with the subject should check out and repair the rest. -- CliffC ( talk) 01:45, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
An editor has been adding raw links that are related to this article, but not quite integrated. I'm depositing some of them here until they can be integrated into this article or separate articles about the individual aviators. Toddst1 ( talk) 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Women's Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron already redirects here. Women's Flying Training Detachment used to redirect here, but a small article was created. I recommend merging its content into here and creating a paragraph for each of these predecessor organizations. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 00:09, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
The file File:400-202xtra.jpg, used on this page, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons and re-uploaded at File:400-202xtra.jpg. It should be reviewed to determine if it is compliant with this project's non-free content policy, or else should be deleted and removed from this page. If no action is taken, it will be deleted after 7 days. Commons fair use upload bot ( talk) 02:15, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Extended content
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This part of the article:
[50] One of the pilots, while showing off, flew too close to Fort's plane and his landing gear collided with the wing of her plane, breaking part of it off.[51] The plane went into a nose-dive, killing her.[52]
is incorrect. Cornelia's plane collided with one operated by Lt. Frank Stamme over Merkel, Texas, as they ferried planes toward Love Field in Dallas.
He was not showing off. Source: "Daughter of the Air," by Rob Simbeck, 1999, Atlantic Monthly Press pages 227-9. NashContributor ( talk) 02:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Text and references copied from Elizabeth L. Gardner to Women Airforce Service Pilots, See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 17:00, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
It seems that someone accidentally removed a portion of the summary on this page.
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:13, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
In the paragraph about the WASP Museum, several aircraft types on display there are listed. All except one are given their proper, official names (BT-13 Valiant, rather than the frequently used "Vultee Vibrator," etc.) The exception is the UC-78 "Bamboo Bomber." This is a nickname, just as is "Useless Seventy-Eight." The aircraft's proper name is Cessna UC-78 Bobcat. 173.62.26.61 ( talk) 22:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the right place for a request but... Can a wiki-knowledgeable person perhaps edit her entry to include her passing date? April 26, 2000.
cafriseabove.org then / then shirley-slade-teer (have no idea why this page is not letting me simply post the link) Rmm8 ( talk) 08:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)