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Change an incorrect statement under "Controversies" for this page, namely, this statement is incorrect: "describes the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol as "peaceful and celebratory""
Andy Ngo did not call the Jan 6th storming of the Capitol "celebratory and peaceful". He was referring to a mid-November rally. One of the current cites for the incorrect statement even links to a source that literally states that - https://consequenceofsound.net/2021/03/mumford-and-sons-winston-marshall-andy-ngo/. From the article: "He also refers to the Proud Boys a “pro-Trump fraternity,” and describes a mid-November “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington as “peaceful and celebratory.”"
The Billboard article that the current incorrect Wiki statement relies on was incorrectly citing a LATimes article, the latter of which states: "The same section of “Unmasked” that ends with Ngo’s paean to the United States portrays a mid-November “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington as a “peaceful and celebratory” affair, with no mention of the Proud Boys amassed there."
It was the mid-November "Stop the Steal" rally in Washington that Ngo described as "peaceful and celebratory." The current statement Wikipedia has on this, that is was the Jan 6. storming, is blatant misinformation. Candoattitude17 ( talk) 23:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
The section on how, in March 2021, Winston Marshall caused controversy by lauding a book by Ngo could be re-written for greater clarity, It could clarify that this was a tweet on Twitter, and that Marshall faced many tweets in response. Rollo August ( talk) 20:42, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I would like to invite @
Arrowe6365 and
NorthBySouthBaranof: to discuss edits, leaving the article at the previous stable version until agreement can be reached. I initially reverted Arrowe's edit for not providing a source for changes in relation to the parts that have proved controversial; they amended it, made other edits that NorthBy has since reverted.
Let's broker on the other edits, since Arrowe hasn't tried to reinstate the first part.
In March 2021, Marshall faced criticism→
In March 2021, Marshall faced some criticism; I don't think the source quantifies criticism, and certainly other users have tried to edit this to say "overwhelming" and similar. Do you have any evidence for this claim?
Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, a book written by conservative American journalist and social media personality Andy Ngo→
Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, by Andy Ngoand
his involvement with the controversial figure [Jordan Peterson]→
his involvement with [Jordan] Peterson; this has been discussed before regarding the Peterson line. A mention of the general perception of these people is needed to contextualize why Marshall being involved with them was controversial. Although, just describing Peterson as "the controversial figure" is news-speak-y, and that sentence should probably better incorporate the description with his name.
Marshall later apologised→
Marshall quickly issued an apology; the source doesn't describe how quick he was, but the dates on the tweets in the source shows that it was three days later, mid-week. This may be "quickly" if it was a written letter, but in terms of social media, three days is a whole other news cycle; "later" also doesn't imply it was late (the edit would only be productive if "later" unfairly suggested he was too late, but it doesn't).
He has since reinforced his support for the book.- sourced to a plain YouTube url; I think the main issue here is the sourcing. We can fix ref formatting, and it's a simple statement that can be sourced to a primary about-self source. It isn't a copyright violation (a YouTube channel uploading a video from somewhere else), but a quick search of what UnHerd is doesn't fill me with confidence that it is a selective enough platform that being interviewed denotes the content is notable. This is a tricky corner of sourcing; using interviews to prove notability only works if the interview platform is known to select subjects with some exclusive criteria (or else the person could have just interviewed themselves and made a video about it, you know). UnHerd doesn't appear to do that, and while I think an RfC on using it as a source is needed for Wikipedia as a whole, I would suggest it cannot be used regarding Marshall as his father owns/funds it: probably safe to assume that no matter how unremarkable what he wants to say is, Marshall will always be given a platform by UnHerd. The other question is whether this information is relevant in the first place. Kingsif ( talk) 18:50, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
I recently modified the article by removing a piece of WP:OR that stated that the subject did not identify as being Jewish. What the source actually said was "Are you Jewish? “Ish,” he says in a fit of laughter.)" This is not IMHO enough to conclude that he does not identify as Jewish. This may be the case but the source does not say this. I tried to discuss this on the reverter's talk page but had my edit immediately removed without discussion. I modified the phrase by removing the original research asking not to be reverted without discussion. I was reverted yet again. I would like the editor to discuss here. Dom from Paris ( talk) 01:22, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Extended content |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why is there no mention of this former musician's career as a right-wing political hack? Cause that's his main job now. Seriously, I never even heard of this "former banjoist" before the internet started bombarding me with his nonsensical takes about politics on account of his minor celebrity status and his dad being a right-wing millionaire with money to spare - on right-wing propaganda projects employing his baby son. Meanwhile, reading this article you'd get the impression he's utterly and passionately apolitical. "I have a little bit of frustration with the politicising of music. I don't mind when artists are political, but I think politics is fucking complicated. It's different from three years ago when we were doing promo for Wilder Mind – we weren't ever asked about politics. People didn't care, but now everyone's got a fucking opinion. Everything is, "Politics this, politics that". It's a massive change." Really? Hello? Wikipedia? Anyone home? Hello? FFS, THIS IS HIS OEUVRE NOW! From "The Winston Marshall Show - A podcast where I dare you to think." 1:37:55 Douglas Murray - Cowardice Is Killing The West | The Show #001 1:15:42 Natan Sharansky - Antisemitism Is A Progressive Problem | The Show #002 51:22 Eylon Levy - The Threat Beyond Israel | The Show #003 1:13:44 Jonathan Pageau - The Occult, The Devil & Rock n' Roll | The Show #004 52:20 “Critical Immigrant Theory” with James Lindsay | The Show #005 1:00:45 Biden's Censorship Apparatus with Jacob Siegel | The Show #006 1:53:37 The Untold Truth about Immigration in Britain with Matt Goodwin | The Show #007 1:38:35 “Elites Have Allowed This To Happen!” Ayaan Hirsi Ali | The Show #008 1:57:18 "Worst Medical Scandal In History!" Michael Shellenberger | The Show #009 1:10:42 Elon Musk: “We Found Some Weird Things!” Dave Rubin On Meeting Elon | The Show #010 1:45:16 "I Ended Up In Hamas Without Knowing I Was In Hamas" Ed Husain | The Show #011 1:04:22 The UNSPOKEN Emergency No One Is Talking About! with Stephen J Shaw | The Show #012 1:12:42 "Gender Medicine is Un-evidenced!" The Cass Review w/ Andrew Doyle | The Show #014 14:54 "Populism Is Democracy!" My Oxford Union Speech vs Nancy Pelosi | The Show #015 Islamophobia, transphobia, The Great Replacement, opposition to democracy (through veiled argumentation that democracy is nothing but populism)... Don't look now, buy your "former banjoist" is literally a "Part of a series on Neo-fascism" now, whether you'd like to admit it or not. 109.175.106.21 Please stop deleting this. The requested reliable source is LITERALLY https://www.youtube.com/@winston_marshall - the youtube page of his podcast. ( talk) 10:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
Please just provide a brief and simple proposal for additional content, together with a WP:RS source, if you have one. If you simply restore this for a third time, it's very likely to to be deleted again. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 20:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Winston Marshall article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change an incorrect statement under "Controversies" for this page, namely, this statement is incorrect: "describes the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol as "peaceful and celebratory""
Andy Ngo did not call the Jan 6th storming of the Capitol "celebratory and peaceful". He was referring to a mid-November rally. One of the current cites for the incorrect statement even links to a source that literally states that - https://consequenceofsound.net/2021/03/mumford-and-sons-winston-marshall-andy-ngo/. From the article: "He also refers to the Proud Boys a “pro-Trump fraternity,” and describes a mid-November “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington as “peaceful and celebratory.”"
The Billboard article that the current incorrect Wiki statement relies on was incorrectly citing a LATimes article, the latter of which states: "The same section of “Unmasked” that ends with Ngo’s paean to the United States portrays a mid-November “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington as a “peaceful and celebratory” affair, with no mention of the Proud Boys amassed there."
It was the mid-November "Stop the Steal" rally in Washington that Ngo described as "peaceful and celebratory." The current statement Wikipedia has on this, that is was the Jan 6. storming, is blatant misinformation. Candoattitude17 ( talk) 23:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
The section on how, in March 2021, Winston Marshall caused controversy by lauding a book by Ngo could be re-written for greater clarity, It could clarify that this was a tweet on Twitter, and that Marshall faced many tweets in response. Rollo August ( talk) 20:42, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I would like to invite @
Arrowe6365 and
NorthBySouthBaranof: to discuss edits, leaving the article at the previous stable version until agreement can be reached. I initially reverted Arrowe's edit for not providing a source for changes in relation to the parts that have proved controversial; they amended it, made other edits that NorthBy has since reverted.
Let's broker on the other edits, since Arrowe hasn't tried to reinstate the first part.
In March 2021, Marshall faced criticism→
In March 2021, Marshall faced some criticism; I don't think the source quantifies criticism, and certainly other users have tried to edit this to say "overwhelming" and similar. Do you have any evidence for this claim?
Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, a book written by conservative American journalist and social media personality Andy Ngo→
Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, by Andy Ngoand
his involvement with the controversial figure [Jordan Peterson]→
his involvement with [Jordan] Peterson; this has been discussed before regarding the Peterson line. A mention of the general perception of these people is needed to contextualize why Marshall being involved with them was controversial. Although, just describing Peterson as "the controversial figure" is news-speak-y, and that sentence should probably better incorporate the description with his name.
Marshall later apologised→
Marshall quickly issued an apology; the source doesn't describe how quick he was, but the dates on the tweets in the source shows that it was three days later, mid-week. This may be "quickly" if it was a written letter, but in terms of social media, three days is a whole other news cycle; "later" also doesn't imply it was late (the edit would only be productive if "later" unfairly suggested he was too late, but it doesn't).
He has since reinforced his support for the book.- sourced to a plain YouTube url; I think the main issue here is the sourcing. We can fix ref formatting, and it's a simple statement that can be sourced to a primary about-self source. It isn't a copyright violation (a YouTube channel uploading a video from somewhere else), but a quick search of what UnHerd is doesn't fill me with confidence that it is a selective enough platform that being interviewed denotes the content is notable. This is a tricky corner of sourcing; using interviews to prove notability only works if the interview platform is known to select subjects with some exclusive criteria (or else the person could have just interviewed themselves and made a video about it, you know). UnHerd doesn't appear to do that, and while I think an RfC on using it as a source is needed for Wikipedia as a whole, I would suggest it cannot be used regarding Marshall as his father owns/funds it: probably safe to assume that no matter how unremarkable what he wants to say is, Marshall will always be given a platform by UnHerd. The other question is whether this information is relevant in the first place. Kingsif ( talk) 18:50, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
I recently modified the article by removing a piece of WP:OR that stated that the subject did not identify as being Jewish. What the source actually said was "Are you Jewish? “Ish,” he says in a fit of laughter.)" This is not IMHO enough to conclude that he does not identify as Jewish. This may be the case but the source does not say this. I tried to discuss this on the reverter's talk page but had my edit immediately removed without discussion. I modified the phrase by removing the original research asking not to be reverted without discussion. I was reverted yet again. I would like the editor to discuss here. Dom from Paris ( talk) 01:22, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Extended content |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why is there no mention of this former musician's career as a right-wing political hack? Cause that's his main job now. Seriously, I never even heard of this "former banjoist" before the internet started bombarding me with his nonsensical takes about politics on account of his minor celebrity status and his dad being a right-wing millionaire with money to spare - on right-wing propaganda projects employing his baby son. Meanwhile, reading this article you'd get the impression he's utterly and passionately apolitical. "I have a little bit of frustration with the politicising of music. I don't mind when artists are political, but I think politics is fucking complicated. It's different from three years ago when we were doing promo for Wilder Mind – we weren't ever asked about politics. People didn't care, but now everyone's got a fucking opinion. Everything is, "Politics this, politics that". It's a massive change." Really? Hello? Wikipedia? Anyone home? Hello? FFS, THIS IS HIS OEUVRE NOW! From "The Winston Marshall Show - A podcast where I dare you to think." 1:37:55 Douglas Murray - Cowardice Is Killing The West | The Show #001 1:15:42 Natan Sharansky - Antisemitism Is A Progressive Problem | The Show #002 51:22 Eylon Levy - The Threat Beyond Israel | The Show #003 1:13:44 Jonathan Pageau - The Occult, The Devil & Rock n' Roll | The Show #004 52:20 “Critical Immigrant Theory” with James Lindsay | The Show #005 1:00:45 Biden's Censorship Apparatus with Jacob Siegel | The Show #006 1:53:37 The Untold Truth about Immigration in Britain with Matt Goodwin | The Show #007 1:38:35 “Elites Have Allowed This To Happen!” Ayaan Hirsi Ali | The Show #008 1:57:18 "Worst Medical Scandal In History!" Michael Shellenberger | The Show #009 1:10:42 Elon Musk: “We Found Some Weird Things!” Dave Rubin On Meeting Elon | The Show #010 1:45:16 "I Ended Up In Hamas Without Knowing I Was In Hamas" Ed Husain | The Show #011 1:04:22 The UNSPOKEN Emergency No One Is Talking About! with Stephen J Shaw | The Show #012 1:12:42 "Gender Medicine is Un-evidenced!" The Cass Review w/ Andrew Doyle | The Show #014 14:54 "Populism Is Democracy!" My Oxford Union Speech vs Nancy Pelosi | The Show #015 Islamophobia, transphobia, The Great Replacement, opposition to democracy (through veiled argumentation that democracy is nothing but populism)... Don't look now, buy your "former banjoist" is literally a "Part of a series on Neo-fascism" now, whether you'd like to admit it or not. 109.175.106.21 Please stop deleting this. The requested reliable source is LITERALLY https://www.youtube.com/@winston_marshall - the youtube page of his podcast. ( talk) 10:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
Please just provide a brief and simple proposal for additional content, together with a WP:RS source, if you have one. If you simply restore this for a third time, it's very likely to to be deleted again. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 20:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)