This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Where is it? It's referenced and linked to (Section H, Section T etc. etc.) in the article but no longer exists. Very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.227.56 ( talk) 18:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Would be fun to know how big the castle is. What is the length and width? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.153.38 ( talk) 22:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi, does anyone know what year the castle was initially built? The article state it's been there for '1000' years at least.. but no specifics. Adidas 17:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I am planning a pretty big re-write here. The King's reign section headings installed today are temporary while I assemble information chronologically and still keep the page readable. When I've done that I plan to sub-divide them into larger dynastic and architectural sections. Its going to be quite a big job and eventually a long page, but I want the page to stay looking like a page as I do it. All advice/help welcome Aspern 16:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Bluewave, I see you recently added an "easter egg" link equating Angevin with Plantagenet — well, or rather equating two different names of the apartments in question, I suppose. Anyway, I don't understand the point at issue, but the real link isn't supposed to be concealed like that. Could you please unpack the easter egg in an explanatory way that shows both the names on the page ? See Wikipedia:Piped link for an example. Frutti di Mare 15:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC).
I am about to delete from the article history those revisions whose content and/or edit summaries libel Xtra, per Wikipedia's libel policy. Selective deletion requires full deletion followed by selective restoration. Therefore this article will be deleted for a very brief period of time. Snottygobble 04:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I propose that the main image on the article should be changed, it is not exactly the most comprehensive image as not much of the castle is visible. I feel a birds eye image or something similar would be more appropriate. Any thoughts? -- 86.13.155.120 19:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC).
I failed this as a GA due to the lack of references. Otherwise, it's great! Some P. E rson 16:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Please don't remove the talk page templates. Failing a GA is a matter of public record, and the British Royalty template assures the article gets assesses for Wikipedia 1.0. I'm assuming you want the article to be included in Wikipedia 1.0?
Furthermore, imho in no way is this a bad article. I originally assessed it as grade A (the best there is short of FA) and nominated it for Good Article status. Unfortunately the reviewer felt unable to give it GA status because of the lack of inline citations, so with no GA it has to be B grade - still good. Look on it as a helpful hint for improving the article - I think with inline citations this could easily be a Featured Article. It's a wonderful piece of work. -- kingboyk 08:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Would Windsor Castle be considered the family seat of the Queen? Drachenfyre 11:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a section on Elizabeth I and her court taking refuge in Windsor castle from the Bubonic Plague as I felt this was an important and interesting fact of the castle. Plus there seemed a huge jump in the history! I didn't go into too much detail as I wasn't sure it was appropriate here. Jannahred ( talk) 17:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Please see the proposal. Many thanks. Aiken's drum ( talk) 08:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I've been through the article and expanded it a bit. I think everything now has a reference/citation. I couldn't find a copy of Hope's classic 1913 volume, unfortunately, but I think I've found most of the relevant modern volumes, including the key works after the post-1992 fire. I created a couple of sub-articles as well. The architects behind much of the post-1992 reconstruction work were kind enough to donate three presentation pictures from their archives. The last version of the article had the various locations linked back to the (rather nice) map; I think this doesn't work so well with the longer article, but others might disagree. I removed the bit about Wyatville and symmetry, as I couldn't find any references to support it and it just didn't seem correct. I rationalised the external links a bit. There will, no doubt, be substantial copy-editing required. Hchc2009 ( talk) 12:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the photochrom picture, because I've concerns about the copyright status. The entry on the original database from which the Flickr user uploaded it says that there "No known restrictions on publication." This is because it is probably under PD within the US. But as a photograph that will probably (given the context and the technology of the time) have as its legal source location as the UK, it may well still have an extant UK copyright on it (e.g. if the photographer was aged 20 in 1900, lived to an average age of 70, the 70 pma rule under UK law won't run out until 2030-ish). If there were details of the photographer and source, it would be easier, but all the database gives us is where the photocrom process was carried out (Detroit). I'm not a specialist in this though, so happy to be corrected! Hchc2009 ( talk) 09:14, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
I've undone the last addition of the photo, as although it is a gorgeous shot, the image description page links to a website which claims copyright over all the photos on it. At the moment there is no proof that the author or copyright holder agreed to license the file under the given license, an issue with some other (equally fine) images downloaded from the site. I've removed it for now, but it would good if the licensing could be confirmed, as its a nice picture. Hchc2009 ( talk) 18:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC) Hello HCHC - My status on Wiki is an autoconfirmed user, involving a verification process (including a wiki "tag" on my website) to show that I am indeed the copyright owner and able to specify the licence under which I place images on wiki in similar fashion to specifying a licence for stock libraries. So - I can assure you I am the copyright owner of the castle panorama. But thank you for checking - there's far too little attention paid to copyright on the web. WyrdLight ( talk) 21:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion - I've linked the tag directly to my WyrdLight Wiki page & hope that will help validate image licensing. WyrdLight ( talk) 16:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
why was the windsor castle built —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.71.212 ( talk) 08:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
I've reverted the last two changes to the article, because its probably best to discuss them here first. I should say at the outset that I don't know how big Prague Castle is but we probably need a better source than the website being cited (a miscellaneous travel website). The Guinness Book of Records entry lists Prague Castle as the "biggest ancient castle", but I can't work out what an "ancient castle" is from the webpage concerned, and it isn't at all clear to me that this is the same thing as being "the largest inhabited castle", which is what the current Windsor Castle page refers to. Any thoughts welcomed! Hchc2009 ( talk) 08:48, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Windsor Castle is one of four sites in London where tourists can see the Foot Guards (the others being Buckingham Palace, St James's Palace and The Tower of London). Could we add a note in the 21st Century paragraph that the Guards are posted throughout the castle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.214.128 ( talk) 18:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-14652774 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-16276225 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/8966322/Queen-finally-goes-green-as-Windsor-Castle-turns-to-hydroelectric-power.html Can info about this be added in anywhere? It is mentioned when the castled got electricity etc so adding info on the work to make the castle greener seems as relevant. RafikiSykes ( talk) 12:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently it states the very first line states:
Without being too quarrelsome, what parts make this building significantly "medieval"? I am sure it's got medieval foundations but most of the building isn't! Even the intro says it was significantly rebuilt following the restoration of Charles II. Likewise the fire did a lot of damage to the royal apartments which all had to be rebuilt.
How can something be called medieval when patently most of it is contains reproductions of earlier architecture? Like the Ship of Theseus, when things are substantially replaced does it remain the same or not? Personally I don't think they do and calling Windsor a medieval castle (when large parts of it isn't) fails by the aforementioned fallacy. 86.147.57.108 ( talk) 01:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
As I was checking the French version of Windsor Castle (a translation of this article), I have noticed that a reference was missing, and after checking this article, I see that the same reference is also missing in the original.
In the section on the 13th century, Robertson, p. 15 is quoted twice (ref 79 and 82) but the book is not listed in the bibliography. Is there any way to add the source in the bibliography please? Thanks. Bouchecl ( talk) 16:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Are there any published figures on what the square footage of the Castle is? 74.69.9.224 ( talk) 18:15, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
The article says ...
"The eastern exit from the ward is guarded by the Norman Gatehouse. This gatehouse, which in fact dates from the 14th century, ..."
Does the 14th century really count as Norman? Or is it trying to say that "Norman" is a misnomer? If so, why is it called "Norman"? Was it once mistakenly dated? I find this part quite confusing. 86.179.113.14 ( talk) 02:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
NB: I've not come up with any explanation of the name. It is certainly used by the 1840s, so isn't of Victorian origin; I'd venture a guess that it is late 17th/early 18th century in origin. Will keep an eye out. Hchc2009 ( talk) 06:26, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
What is the square footage of the castle and its surrounding Home Park? Where is this in the article? 66.67.32.161 ( talk) 19:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Celia Homeford: Re [1], "The Crown" is ambiguous because it could be taken to mean that the castle is owned by a government department (i.e. what most people regard as "the state"). See Using the Building Regulations: Administrative Procedures by Mike Billington, Routledge, 2006, pp. 62–63. Quote: "According to the Building Act 1984, a Crown building is defined as 'a building in which there is a Crown interest or a Duchy interest'. Crown interest means 'an interest belonging to Her Majesty in right of the Crown, or belonging to a government department, or held in trust for Her Majesty for the purposes of a government department'".
Windsor Castle is royal property owned by the sovereign and passes directly from one sovereign to the next as an heirloom by "custom immemorial" (not parliamentary statute). "In right of the Crown" means due to his or her position as sovereign. In practice, it means that a sovereign forfeits ownership of the castle if he or she abdicates.
Since the monarch is the legal personification of the state, you could say that the state owns Windsor Castle, but that would be confusing too because, as above, people tend to think of the government and civil service as being "the state". The idea that "the people" are "the state" has also gained momentum in recent years ( Searching for the State in British Legal Thought: Competing Conceptions of the Public Sphere by Janet McLean, Cambridge University Press, 2012, p. 292.).
"Queen Elizabeth II in right of the Crown" distinguishes royal property from government property. Firebrace ( talk) 18:04, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I know that some people may think that the Van Dyke Room, (formerly known as the Queen's Ballroom) is the castle's main ballroom. But it is not. The Grand Reception Room is also known as the ballroom. You can look it up on royalcollection.co.uk. -- 142.134.67.151 ( talk) 23:22, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Wow. The castle actually does have 3 ballrooms? Apparently Buckingham Palace only has one. Still though, they should still add ballroom to the name, like perhaps "Grand Reception Ballroom". Also, the Waterloo Chamber is also known as the Waterloo Gallery and the Grand Dining Room. -- 142.134.67.151 ( talk) 17:13, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Although there has been some criticism, the castle's architecture and history lends it a "place amongst the greatest European palaces".
This is something very minor, but I'd rather put this up for discussion than to edit the article.
While reading I noticed the following phrase in this [ [2]]; The restoration programme was completed in 1997 at a total cost of £37 million (£67 million in 2015 terms). This made me curious so I looked a little further, because a claim like that will get outdated fast. The reference for the section in brackets is a page which seems to provide several tools/methods of calculations for measuring worth, not the actual numbers. It mentions the number was come up with in 2015, but not the calculation, so it can't be sure if the number is based on which years(presently it reaches til 2019 it seems). This makes me believe that the reference might be inaccurate. Is mentioning a 2015 value proper for wikipedia, because as well as that as time progresses that number will continue to get outdated.
So I want to put up the question, should the figure for 2015 stay, should it get updated and if anyone knows a good way to go about that, or if it's better off getting removed. There are this page which says 'equivalent to £68 million as of 2016' but it also lacks sources. Intouchwithbertj ( talk) 02:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
It seems that we are mainly operating off the user DrKay's personal opinion with respect to should we mention his death in the article. I think we should have an RfC on this. The brave celery ( talk) 20:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
I apologize if you were offended. However, at least earlier today if not presently, you were removing edits that mention this for seemingly no other reason than you feel it should not be there. You are not citing any undue weight rules with these reversions. The only reason it's in the article now is that I added it back, evidently. The brave celery ( talk) 22:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Where is it? It's referenced and linked to (Section H, Section T etc. etc.) in the article but no longer exists. Very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.227.56 ( talk) 18:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Would be fun to know how big the castle is. What is the length and width? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.153.38 ( talk) 22:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi, does anyone know what year the castle was initially built? The article state it's been there for '1000' years at least.. but no specifics. Adidas 17:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I am planning a pretty big re-write here. The King's reign section headings installed today are temporary while I assemble information chronologically and still keep the page readable. When I've done that I plan to sub-divide them into larger dynastic and architectural sections. Its going to be quite a big job and eventually a long page, but I want the page to stay looking like a page as I do it. All advice/help welcome Aspern 16:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Bluewave, I see you recently added an "easter egg" link equating Angevin with Plantagenet — well, or rather equating two different names of the apartments in question, I suppose. Anyway, I don't understand the point at issue, but the real link isn't supposed to be concealed like that. Could you please unpack the easter egg in an explanatory way that shows both the names on the page ? See Wikipedia:Piped link for an example. Frutti di Mare 15:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC).
I am about to delete from the article history those revisions whose content and/or edit summaries libel Xtra, per Wikipedia's libel policy. Selective deletion requires full deletion followed by selective restoration. Therefore this article will be deleted for a very brief period of time. Snottygobble 04:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I propose that the main image on the article should be changed, it is not exactly the most comprehensive image as not much of the castle is visible. I feel a birds eye image or something similar would be more appropriate. Any thoughts? -- 86.13.155.120 19:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC).
I failed this as a GA due to the lack of references. Otherwise, it's great! Some P. E rson 16:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Please don't remove the talk page templates. Failing a GA is a matter of public record, and the British Royalty template assures the article gets assesses for Wikipedia 1.0. I'm assuming you want the article to be included in Wikipedia 1.0?
Furthermore, imho in no way is this a bad article. I originally assessed it as grade A (the best there is short of FA) and nominated it for Good Article status. Unfortunately the reviewer felt unable to give it GA status because of the lack of inline citations, so with no GA it has to be B grade - still good. Look on it as a helpful hint for improving the article - I think with inline citations this could easily be a Featured Article. It's a wonderful piece of work. -- kingboyk 08:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Would Windsor Castle be considered the family seat of the Queen? Drachenfyre 11:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a section on Elizabeth I and her court taking refuge in Windsor castle from the Bubonic Plague as I felt this was an important and interesting fact of the castle. Plus there seemed a huge jump in the history! I didn't go into too much detail as I wasn't sure it was appropriate here. Jannahred ( talk) 17:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Please see the proposal. Many thanks. Aiken's drum ( talk) 08:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
I've been through the article and expanded it a bit. I think everything now has a reference/citation. I couldn't find a copy of Hope's classic 1913 volume, unfortunately, but I think I've found most of the relevant modern volumes, including the key works after the post-1992 fire. I created a couple of sub-articles as well. The architects behind much of the post-1992 reconstruction work were kind enough to donate three presentation pictures from their archives. The last version of the article had the various locations linked back to the (rather nice) map; I think this doesn't work so well with the longer article, but others might disagree. I removed the bit about Wyatville and symmetry, as I couldn't find any references to support it and it just didn't seem correct. I rationalised the external links a bit. There will, no doubt, be substantial copy-editing required. Hchc2009 ( talk) 12:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the photochrom picture, because I've concerns about the copyright status. The entry on the original database from which the Flickr user uploaded it says that there "No known restrictions on publication." This is because it is probably under PD within the US. But as a photograph that will probably (given the context and the technology of the time) have as its legal source location as the UK, it may well still have an extant UK copyright on it (e.g. if the photographer was aged 20 in 1900, lived to an average age of 70, the 70 pma rule under UK law won't run out until 2030-ish). If there were details of the photographer and source, it would be easier, but all the database gives us is where the photocrom process was carried out (Detroit). I'm not a specialist in this though, so happy to be corrected! Hchc2009 ( talk) 09:14, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
I've undone the last addition of the photo, as although it is a gorgeous shot, the image description page links to a website which claims copyright over all the photos on it. At the moment there is no proof that the author or copyright holder agreed to license the file under the given license, an issue with some other (equally fine) images downloaded from the site. I've removed it for now, but it would good if the licensing could be confirmed, as its a nice picture. Hchc2009 ( talk) 18:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC) Hello HCHC - My status on Wiki is an autoconfirmed user, involving a verification process (including a wiki "tag" on my website) to show that I am indeed the copyright owner and able to specify the licence under which I place images on wiki in similar fashion to specifying a licence for stock libraries. So - I can assure you I am the copyright owner of the castle panorama. But thank you for checking - there's far too little attention paid to copyright on the web. WyrdLight ( talk) 21:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion - I've linked the tag directly to my WyrdLight Wiki page & hope that will help validate image licensing. WyrdLight ( talk) 16:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
why was the windsor castle built —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.71.212 ( talk) 08:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
I've reverted the last two changes to the article, because its probably best to discuss them here first. I should say at the outset that I don't know how big Prague Castle is but we probably need a better source than the website being cited (a miscellaneous travel website). The Guinness Book of Records entry lists Prague Castle as the "biggest ancient castle", but I can't work out what an "ancient castle" is from the webpage concerned, and it isn't at all clear to me that this is the same thing as being "the largest inhabited castle", which is what the current Windsor Castle page refers to. Any thoughts welcomed! Hchc2009 ( talk) 08:48, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Windsor Castle is one of four sites in London where tourists can see the Foot Guards (the others being Buckingham Palace, St James's Palace and The Tower of London). Could we add a note in the 21st Century paragraph that the Guards are posted throughout the castle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.214.128 ( talk) 18:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-14652774 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-16276225 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/8966322/Queen-finally-goes-green-as-Windsor-Castle-turns-to-hydroelectric-power.html Can info about this be added in anywhere? It is mentioned when the castled got electricity etc so adding info on the work to make the castle greener seems as relevant. RafikiSykes ( talk) 12:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently it states the very first line states:
Without being too quarrelsome, what parts make this building significantly "medieval"? I am sure it's got medieval foundations but most of the building isn't! Even the intro says it was significantly rebuilt following the restoration of Charles II. Likewise the fire did a lot of damage to the royal apartments which all had to be rebuilt.
How can something be called medieval when patently most of it is contains reproductions of earlier architecture? Like the Ship of Theseus, when things are substantially replaced does it remain the same or not? Personally I don't think they do and calling Windsor a medieval castle (when large parts of it isn't) fails by the aforementioned fallacy. 86.147.57.108 ( talk) 01:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
As I was checking the French version of Windsor Castle (a translation of this article), I have noticed that a reference was missing, and after checking this article, I see that the same reference is also missing in the original.
In the section on the 13th century, Robertson, p. 15 is quoted twice (ref 79 and 82) but the book is not listed in the bibliography. Is there any way to add the source in the bibliography please? Thanks. Bouchecl ( talk) 16:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Are there any published figures on what the square footage of the Castle is? 74.69.9.224 ( talk) 18:15, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
The article says ...
"The eastern exit from the ward is guarded by the Norman Gatehouse. This gatehouse, which in fact dates from the 14th century, ..."
Does the 14th century really count as Norman? Or is it trying to say that "Norman" is a misnomer? If so, why is it called "Norman"? Was it once mistakenly dated? I find this part quite confusing. 86.179.113.14 ( talk) 02:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
NB: I've not come up with any explanation of the name. It is certainly used by the 1840s, so isn't of Victorian origin; I'd venture a guess that it is late 17th/early 18th century in origin. Will keep an eye out. Hchc2009 ( talk) 06:26, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
What is the square footage of the castle and its surrounding Home Park? Where is this in the article? 66.67.32.161 ( talk) 19:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Celia Homeford: Re [1], "The Crown" is ambiguous because it could be taken to mean that the castle is owned by a government department (i.e. what most people regard as "the state"). See Using the Building Regulations: Administrative Procedures by Mike Billington, Routledge, 2006, pp. 62–63. Quote: "According to the Building Act 1984, a Crown building is defined as 'a building in which there is a Crown interest or a Duchy interest'. Crown interest means 'an interest belonging to Her Majesty in right of the Crown, or belonging to a government department, or held in trust for Her Majesty for the purposes of a government department'".
Windsor Castle is royal property owned by the sovereign and passes directly from one sovereign to the next as an heirloom by "custom immemorial" (not parliamentary statute). "In right of the Crown" means due to his or her position as sovereign. In practice, it means that a sovereign forfeits ownership of the castle if he or she abdicates.
Since the monarch is the legal personification of the state, you could say that the state owns Windsor Castle, but that would be confusing too because, as above, people tend to think of the government and civil service as being "the state". The idea that "the people" are "the state" has also gained momentum in recent years ( Searching for the State in British Legal Thought: Competing Conceptions of the Public Sphere by Janet McLean, Cambridge University Press, 2012, p. 292.).
"Queen Elizabeth II in right of the Crown" distinguishes royal property from government property. Firebrace ( talk) 18:04, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I know that some people may think that the Van Dyke Room, (formerly known as the Queen's Ballroom) is the castle's main ballroom. But it is not. The Grand Reception Room is also known as the ballroom. You can look it up on royalcollection.co.uk. -- 142.134.67.151 ( talk) 23:22, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Wow. The castle actually does have 3 ballrooms? Apparently Buckingham Palace only has one. Still though, they should still add ballroom to the name, like perhaps "Grand Reception Ballroom". Also, the Waterloo Chamber is also known as the Waterloo Gallery and the Grand Dining Room. -- 142.134.67.151 ( talk) 17:13, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Although there has been some criticism, the castle's architecture and history lends it a "place amongst the greatest European palaces".
This is something very minor, but I'd rather put this up for discussion than to edit the article.
While reading I noticed the following phrase in this [ [2]]; The restoration programme was completed in 1997 at a total cost of £37 million (£67 million in 2015 terms). This made me curious so I looked a little further, because a claim like that will get outdated fast. The reference for the section in brackets is a page which seems to provide several tools/methods of calculations for measuring worth, not the actual numbers. It mentions the number was come up with in 2015, but not the calculation, so it can't be sure if the number is based on which years(presently it reaches til 2019 it seems). This makes me believe that the reference might be inaccurate. Is mentioning a 2015 value proper for wikipedia, because as well as that as time progresses that number will continue to get outdated.
So I want to put up the question, should the figure for 2015 stay, should it get updated and if anyone knows a good way to go about that, or if it's better off getting removed. There are this page which says 'equivalent to £68 million as of 2016' but it also lacks sources. Intouchwithbertj ( talk) 02:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
It seems that we are mainly operating off the user DrKay's personal opinion with respect to should we mention his death in the article. I think we should have an RfC on this. The brave celery ( talk) 20:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
I apologize if you were offended. However, at least earlier today if not presently, you were removing edits that mention this for seemingly no other reason than you feel it should not be there. You are not citing any undue weight rules with these reversions. The only reason it's in the article now is that I added it back, evidently. The brave celery ( talk) 22:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)