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Please Change Greer was born on a farm in Stewardstown, County Tyrone, Ireland to Greer was born on a farm in Stewartstown, County Tyrone, Ireland
The Spelling of Stewardstown is incorrect —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcaliskey ( talk • contribs) 12:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
An IP sock of the long-banned editor here [1] has returned to the page to push the fringe theory. I've reverted his additions, and filed at RFPP for further protection. Just letting everyone know. Dayewalker ( talk) 07:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
This article was listed on votes for deletion; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/William Greer. —No-One Jones (m) 09:58, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
William Greer is mentioned as possible Kennedy assassin on the "Kennedy Assassination Theories" discussion page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kennedy_assassination_theories
70.174.38.160
13:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Greer is an important figure who deserves to have an entry on Wikipedia. I fail to see, however, why the Freemasons deserve to have an opinon on him, or William Cooper, a well-known conspiracist with zero credibility in the eyes of any reasonable person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnej ( talk • contribs) 04:19, 26 November 2006
Wikipedia is not a clearinghouse only for those who "deserve to have an opinion", as you say. Everyone deserves to have an opinion. Greer is either partially or completely to blame for the death of The President of The United States. His role in this event warrants his own page. Furthermore, his actions in the motorcade are recorded on the Zapruder film for all to see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ehpitche ( talk • contribs) 01:59, 30 July 2007
Wikipedia aims to be an authoritative source. Conspiracy-mongerng should have no place there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnej ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 9 August 2007
Hi, there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the
Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you!
Hqb
08:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer. In light of the enhanced MPI film (produced from the original Zapruder film) I'm requesting that you leave the current post intact and allow contributors to add the specific citations.
These revert warriors' have clear double standards, including a lack of citations for the first two paragraphs of the History section, as well as this paragraph: "Some commentators have criticized Greer's actions during the assassination, noting that he did not accelerate the vehicle to get the president out of danger as soon as he could have. In the confusion after the first shot was fired, the limousine's brake lights can be seen coming on briefly, slowing the car to almost a walking pace. The vehicle accelerated several seconds later, but by then the fatal shot had been fired. (Since that time, Secret Service agents have been trained to accelerate rapidly out of the area if they even think they hear gunfire.)" [citation needed]
Fact: William Greer was not just a driver, he was a trained SS agent authorized to carry a weapon in the presence of the president of the United States.
Fact: William Greer was with Kennedy the entire time from Love Field to Bethesda (alive and dead) and controlled his clothing (murder evidence). The so called "Warren Report" is the documentation supporting this last point. I have a copy on my shelf and plan to post many citations referencing it soon.
Fact: The stabilized Zapruder film as copied from the National Archives shows new detail of Greer's already contradicting actions (especially when compared to his testimony).
Fact: There is no credential for assassination researchers to determine what is credible (such as a PHD etc.) nor for theories that should or should not be considered. (And the age or widespread acceptance does NOT make a theory more credible. A lie can be old and widely believed, but it can still be a lie.) And please outline where a self-published is outlined as an invalid reference in Wikipedia's standards. All publishers turned down the work of Howard Weisburg even though he was the first and the best of the assassination researchers!
STOP REVERTING THIS ARTICLE TO EXCLUDE THE FACTS OUTLINED ABOVE. THEY ARE A CLEAR PART OF THE HISTORICAL RECORD AND THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES DESERVES SUCH SCRUTINY! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.244.196 ( talk) 03:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted this back to an earlier version, with a couple of amendments to text unsupported by the source. This article has been taken over by a fringe POV pusher intent on publicising his tin foil hat theories that are in his vanity published book, and was a gross violation of WP:FRINGE and WP:WEIGHT. There are many theories detailed in Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories, and Greer is not mentioned there a single time. Therefore to have most of article that tries to make him look guilty is totally unacceptable. At best, all that should be in this article is something like "Although no court or official report has ever alleged wrongdoing on his part, [insert name(s) of credible non-tin foil hat non-vanity published author(s)] continue to explore Greer's possible complicity in the assassination", and that is assuming there is consensus on that article for a theory regarding Greer to be added. 2 lines of K 303 13:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I spent a solid week referencing the additions and removed speculation about greer firing a pistol, although to me, that can be the only explantation for his behavior in Z312. Please leave the well supported commentary in place. Greer's own admissions and archival footage backs up the section on the aftermath of the assassination, which is an important part of this unsolved murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.220.204 ( talk) 16:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no "view" represented here other than the historcal records of Greer's role on November 22-23, 1963. The FBI consdered him a suspect at the time as they recorded his height and weight. It would be "FRINGE" to say "William Greer was the assassin of John F. Kennedy", which my edits do not. However, the foremost expert on the topic, Vince Palamara, is the source for much of ths commentary and considered Greer "The most important agent." It is a FACT that Greer's role was more than that of a driver, which the historical record demonstrates and these edits reinforce. To simply record him as a mere "driver" is worse than innacurate, it is false. Therefore, I sumbit that the entire article remain intact vs. a complete revert so that the text may be TWEAKED to comply with Wikipeda guidelines. For a time in human history, the idea that the world was round was actually a "fringe" point of view, only to be proven as fact over time.
I have added more sources than just Lifton, including the "Warren Report" itself. Lifton is a researcher who has published a book. Don't do a complete revert simply because of Lifton as a source, please. If referencing Lifton is unacceptable WP policy, you have a great deal of work to do removing millions of references to published authors! Why are Manchester and Powers acceptable to you? Answer this question before you revert. Thank you.
Lifton is a published author and respected researcher, despite his own controversial theories. If a researcher finds documents that show the moon is round but insists the earth is flat, one can still extract a component of the researchers work without endorsing their entire world view, can they not? How about Vince Palamara? And why don't you just edit out Lifton's references instead of reverting? YOU are causing the revert war by not editing. Obscuring much of my edits seems to be your objectve, I guess. There are many "respected" authors who have misrepresented the truth. Study and learn from your history in grade school. A round earth was a "fringe" view held by less respected researchers for a time, while the "respected" authors and other "professionals" held that the earth was flat. See Flat Earth. I have added references to the John F. Kennedy Assassination section on Secret Service Criticism that you just reverted. You can threaten me with WP topics all you want. The objective here is to edit and improve. Please contribute.
Greer's involvement in the aftermath of the assassination is a valid component of the historical record. STOP REVERTING MY WORK TO THE BS "GREER WAS JUST AN OLD DRIVER" BALONEY AND MAKE SPECIFIC EDITS TO WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!
Greer's own testimony in the Warren Report contradicts his actions in the Zapruder film. In short, he lied to cover up the fact that he (along with Kellerman) saw that JFK was mortally wounded and DID NOT RESPOND ACCORDING TO SS POLICY! The Warren Report, the HSCA Report, the Zapruder film, and ABC news footage are sufficient sources. You are covering up the truth! -Anon
These are sufficient sources. Leave these comments and references. Lifton is the most respected and published among critics. If you have a problem with him, then remove (EDIT) the text attributed to him, but don't "throw the baby out with the bath water" by childish revision. Much of my edits revolve around FBI reports, Warren Commission Testimony, the Zapruder Film, etc. Greer and the US Secret Service set the stage for the assassination of JFK. You're doing a disservice to the United States of America and the world by framing him as a "driver" who was slow to react. The stabilized Zapruder Film clearly shows that he turned a second time to shoot JFK, his Warren Commission testimony is false, and the FBI report records his physical description, as standard with suspects. Clearly, Greer's role was beyond a driver. ("Constant vigilance" is attributed to him.) See Vince Palamara's work. Don't expect any "mainstream" source to claim what the Zapruder film clearly shows-Greer murdered JFK because the other shots were not fatal and time was running out. Extract what ut you don't see as substantiated, but don't revert to the "driver" BS.
Then stop reverting and give me the opportunity to revise. OR, spend time researching and revising yourself, as you did with the LHO page. I'm not hanging my hat on Lifton, although he IS respected and has done much research. You can't expect a detractor from the "official" story to have the same credentials. (The US Government is credible, along with anyone else selling the lie. but critics are not simply because they are critics of the "official"? A lack of "officialdom" should not diminish their contribution to the research process. By the way, why in the Hell are you revising this so quickly and so frequently? Do you have this flagged with an alert. Five or ten minutes response time around the clock is pretty extreme. It looks like your desperately trying to hide the truth. I wrote over 2/3 of this article (most with my real user name) so don't demonize me because of Lifton. I am deadly serious about the truth.
What SPECIFCALLY violates WP policy? Please quote the text and I will edit accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.12.102 ( talk) 13:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Lifton is clear but "read the rest of this talk page" is not specific enough. Since you are so hell-bent on reverting ASAP, why don't you give more specifics please?
There's no need to remove a discussion. Vexorg ( talk) 05:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm back! I'm very happy to report that this idea is no longer "fringe". In his new five volume book, Inside the Assassination Records and Review Board, highly credible researcher Doug Horne points to William Robert Greer as a possible shooter, which is corroborated by both the Zapruder film and witness testimony, including that of Secret Service Agent Clint Hill. Now, I respectfully ask that you not revert the edits. This view is no longer "fringe". Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.137.27 ( talk) 19:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
PS: Still amazed at how rapidly this page is reverted. Someone must be standing by 24/7 with an alert coming to their mobile device, huh? Pretty fishy... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.137.27 ( talk) 19:45, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I shouldn't even bother to entertain this banned editor, but here goes anyway. The book does not mention the Zapruder Film, and only details the theory as "tentative possibility exists", and it is only included with the caveat "it would be cowardly of me not to mention it here". Horne does not seem to promote, advocate or endorse the theory, only acknowledging its existence. Read WP:FRINGE, being mentioned in a reliable source does not make it any less fringe.
On a side note thanks to the admins for prompt action regarding this, hopefully he'll get the message some time soon..... 2 lines of K 303 12:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
@ B:, @ SarekOfVulcan:, @ EdJohnston:. You have all previously taken administrative action regarding this editor, so perhaps you could keep an eye on this rather obvious reincarnation. The evidence, other than them pushing the same tired unsourced conspiracy theories about Greer;
From the latest IP "Constant Reversion of Cited, Critical Content". The Only Other People That Type Headings Like This On This Page are the previous incarnation, see for example #Why Keep Reverting When So Much Documented Fact?, #Help Edit This Article to Reflect the Historical Record, #AARB Researcher Doug Horne Points To Greer and #Why All The Reverting of a Discussion.
From the latest IP "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365 - cited analysis and criticism of Secret Service Agent William Robert Greer is falsely defined as "vandalism" and reverted to apologist, government-explanation-only content, which lacks citations". As the recent history of the article shows, the only recent mention of vandalism in the edit history is this revert of an edit repeatedly describing Greer as inept and adding other unsourced criticism. Other reverts such as this have repeatedly mentioned WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE & WP:V, never vandalism. The previous incarnation's attempts to add conspiracy theory garbage to this article and Greer related material to John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories were warned for vandalism, as the editor complains about here. Regarding the "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365" remark, this is similar to claims made by the previous incarnation such as "There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer" and "By the way, why in the Hell are you revising this so quickly and so frequently?".
From the latest IP additions to the article such as "The FBI recorded Greer’s physical description during an interview with him after the assassination" ( additional diffs). The previous incarnation repeatedly tried to add a similar sentence to the article in an attempt to insinuate Greer's supposed guilt, see for example "The FBI interviewed Greer after the assassination and, although agents Kellerman and Behn were also interviewed, Greer's interview is unique in that his physical description is also recorded in the 11/27/63 FBI report", this was repeatedly edit warred into the article by 173.79.229.171 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 71.246.220.204 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (every major edit to the article from either IP is a diff including that phrase).
Last, but by no means least. Even if this IP isn't the same editor that's topic banned, do we really need another single purpose account edit warring to include an unsourced conspiracy theory in total violation of WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE and WP:V? There is the last major edit by the current incarnation. The only source cited is this which is a copy of the FBI report (obviously a primary source), being used to source a sentence whose only purpose is to try and make Greer look suspicious. I am not interested in what the IP says the Zapruder film does or does not show, or what Greer said in his FBI interview, or what Secret Service procedures were. Creating a critique of Greer from those is explicitly forbidden per no original research. Neither am I interested in the contents of "Murder from Within: Lyndon Johnson's Plot Against President Kennedy" by Fred T. Newcomb (with editing by Perry Adams). This book was a manuscript that gathered dust for well over 30 years before being self-published on AuthorHouse by the author's son in 2011 shortly before the author's death. Who was Fred T. Newcomb? Nobody. Self-published conspiracy theory garbage has no place in this article, and in my opinion we shouldn't even waste time discussing it. Grewsome47 ( talk) 10:06, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
You don’t like the edits. Fair enough. Why was the editor’s Talk Page entry deleted? Secret Service Fan ( talk) 23:55, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
It seems to me that cited content pertaining to “Analysis and Criticism” of William Greer is relevant content. Other content that seemingly exonerates Greer stands for years, unsourced. “Vandalism” seems to be subjective, especially depending upon your view of the assassination. @SarekOfVulcan seems to imply his personal views are a primary reason for not exploring Greer’s role in the death of JFK. This does not seem to be in keeping with the policies of Wikipedia, or good journalism or authorship. Secret Service Fan ( talk) 00:32, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
Presumably the comments were removed due to violations of the topic ban per WP:BANREVERT, since as pointed out further up "There is no reason why the time of productive editors should continue to be wasted here, by someone who has no intention of following Wikipedia policy or respecting the consensus of the talk page".
You are welcome to appeal the topic ban, see WP:UNBAN for details. However, I would recommend you don't since it will be a pointless exercise. Why? Well, TEN YEARS later, you still have a fixation on Greer and are editing in violation of your topic ban to edit war against consensus to add a conspiracy theory and/or criticism in violation of WP:V, WP:UNDUE, WP:NOR and WP:FRINGE. Any appeal under those circumstances will be doomed to failure, so I recommend you make more productive use of your time elsewhere. Grewsome47 ( talk) 10:18, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
What is the source for the statement “Secret Service procedures in place at the time did not allow Greer to take action without orders from senior agent Roy Kellerman, who sat to Greer's right.“ Secret Service Fan ( talk) 23:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
The link to the stabilized Zapruder film is broken. I don't want to break the page so could someone take a look? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.160.249 ( talk) 00:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
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Change the location of birth from Ireland to Northern Ireland as they are seperate countries, it seems like a trivial edit but in the pursuit of accuracy the orginal is incorrect. Pheakay ( talk) 00:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Leningrad, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union" despite the fact that Leningrad has since reverted to its pre-soviet name of "St. Petersburg", and that the Russian SFSR and the Soviet Union no longer exist. — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) ( talk) 02:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
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Please Change Greer was born on a farm in Stewardstown, County Tyrone, Ireland to Greer was born on a farm in Stewartstown, County Tyrone, Ireland
The Spelling of Stewardstown is incorrect —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcaliskey ( talk • contribs) 12:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
An IP sock of the long-banned editor here [1] has returned to the page to push the fringe theory. I've reverted his additions, and filed at RFPP for further protection. Just letting everyone know. Dayewalker ( talk) 07:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
This article was listed on votes for deletion; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/William Greer. —No-One Jones (m) 09:58, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
William Greer is mentioned as possible Kennedy assassin on the "Kennedy Assassination Theories" discussion page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kennedy_assassination_theories
70.174.38.160
13:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Greer is an important figure who deserves to have an entry on Wikipedia. I fail to see, however, why the Freemasons deserve to have an opinon on him, or William Cooper, a well-known conspiracist with zero credibility in the eyes of any reasonable person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnej ( talk • contribs) 04:19, 26 November 2006
Wikipedia is not a clearinghouse only for those who "deserve to have an opinion", as you say. Everyone deserves to have an opinion. Greer is either partially or completely to blame for the death of The President of The United States. His role in this event warrants his own page. Furthermore, his actions in the motorcade are recorded on the Zapruder film for all to see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ehpitche ( talk • contribs) 01:59, 30 July 2007
Wikipedia aims to be an authoritative source. Conspiracy-mongerng should have no place there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnej ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 9 August 2007
Hi, there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the
Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you!
Hqb
08:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer. In light of the enhanced MPI film (produced from the original Zapruder film) I'm requesting that you leave the current post intact and allow contributors to add the specific citations.
These revert warriors' have clear double standards, including a lack of citations for the first two paragraphs of the History section, as well as this paragraph: "Some commentators have criticized Greer's actions during the assassination, noting that he did not accelerate the vehicle to get the president out of danger as soon as he could have. In the confusion after the first shot was fired, the limousine's brake lights can be seen coming on briefly, slowing the car to almost a walking pace. The vehicle accelerated several seconds later, but by then the fatal shot had been fired. (Since that time, Secret Service agents have been trained to accelerate rapidly out of the area if they even think they hear gunfire.)" [citation needed]
Fact: William Greer was not just a driver, he was a trained SS agent authorized to carry a weapon in the presence of the president of the United States.
Fact: William Greer was with Kennedy the entire time from Love Field to Bethesda (alive and dead) and controlled his clothing (murder evidence). The so called "Warren Report" is the documentation supporting this last point. I have a copy on my shelf and plan to post many citations referencing it soon.
Fact: The stabilized Zapruder film as copied from the National Archives shows new detail of Greer's already contradicting actions (especially when compared to his testimony).
Fact: There is no credential for assassination researchers to determine what is credible (such as a PHD etc.) nor for theories that should or should not be considered. (And the age or widespread acceptance does NOT make a theory more credible. A lie can be old and widely believed, but it can still be a lie.) And please outline where a self-published is outlined as an invalid reference in Wikipedia's standards. All publishers turned down the work of Howard Weisburg even though he was the first and the best of the assassination researchers!
STOP REVERTING THIS ARTICLE TO EXCLUDE THE FACTS OUTLINED ABOVE. THEY ARE A CLEAR PART OF THE HISTORICAL RECORD AND THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES DESERVES SUCH SCRUTINY! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.244.196 ( talk) 03:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted this back to an earlier version, with a couple of amendments to text unsupported by the source. This article has been taken over by a fringe POV pusher intent on publicising his tin foil hat theories that are in his vanity published book, and was a gross violation of WP:FRINGE and WP:WEIGHT. There are many theories detailed in Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories, and Greer is not mentioned there a single time. Therefore to have most of article that tries to make him look guilty is totally unacceptable. At best, all that should be in this article is something like "Although no court or official report has ever alleged wrongdoing on his part, [insert name(s) of credible non-tin foil hat non-vanity published author(s)] continue to explore Greer's possible complicity in the assassination", and that is assuming there is consensus on that article for a theory regarding Greer to be added. 2 lines of K 303 13:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I spent a solid week referencing the additions and removed speculation about greer firing a pistol, although to me, that can be the only explantation for his behavior in Z312. Please leave the well supported commentary in place. Greer's own admissions and archival footage backs up the section on the aftermath of the assassination, which is an important part of this unsolved murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.220.204 ( talk) 16:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no "view" represented here other than the historcal records of Greer's role on November 22-23, 1963. The FBI consdered him a suspect at the time as they recorded his height and weight. It would be "FRINGE" to say "William Greer was the assassin of John F. Kennedy", which my edits do not. However, the foremost expert on the topic, Vince Palamara, is the source for much of ths commentary and considered Greer "The most important agent." It is a FACT that Greer's role was more than that of a driver, which the historical record demonstrates and these edits reinforce. To simply record him as a mere "driver" is worse than innacurate, it is false. Therefore, I sumbit that the entire article remain intact vs. a complete revert so that the text may be TWEAKED to comply with Wikipeda guidelines. For a time in human history, the idea that the world was round was actually a "fringe" point of view, only to be proven as fact over time.
I have added more sources than just Lifton, including the "Warren Report" itself. Lifton is a researcher who has published a book. Don't do a complete revert simply because of Lifton as a source, please. If referencing Lifton is unacceptable WP policy, you have a great deal of work to do removing millions of references to published authors! Why are Manchester and Powers acceptable to you? Answer this question before you revert. Thank you.
Lifton is a published author and respected researcher, despite his own controversial theories. If a researcher finds documents that show the moon is round but insists the earth is flat, one can still extract a component of the researchers work without endorsing their entire world view, can they not? How about Vince Palamara? And why don't you just edit out Lifton's references instead of reverting? YOU are causing the revert war by not editing. Obscuring much of my edits seems to be your objectve, I guess. There are many "respected" authors who have misrepresented the truth. Study and learn from your history in grade school. A round earth was a "fringe" view held by less respected researchers for a time, while the "respected" authors and other "professionals" held that the earth was flat. See Flat Earth. I have added references to the John F. Kennedy Assassination section on Secret Service Criticism that you just reverted. You can threaten me with WP topics all you want. The objective here is to edit and improve. Please contribute.
Greer's involvement in the aftermath of the assassination is a valid component of the historical record. STOP REVERTING MY WORK TO THE BS "GREER WAS JUST AN OLD DRIVER" BALONEY AND MAKE SPECIFIC EDITS TO WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!
Greer's own testimony in the Warren Report contradicts his actions in the Zapruder film. In short, he lied to cover up the fact that he (along with Kellerman) saw that JFK was mortally wounded and DID NOT RESPOND ACCORDING TO SS POLICY! The Warren Report, the HSCA Report, the Zapruder film, and ABC news footage are sufficient sources. You are covering up the truth! -Anon
These are sufficient sources. Leave these comments and references. Lifton is the most respected and published among critics. If you have a problem with him, then remove (EDIT) the text attributed to him, but don't "throw the baby out with the bath water" by childish revision. Much of my edits revolve around FBI reports, Warren Commission Testimony, the Zapruder Film, etc. Greer and the US Secret Service set the stage for the assassination of JFK. You're doing a disservice to the United States of America and the world by framing him as a "driver" who was slow to react. The stabilized Zapruder Film clearly shows that he turned a second time to shoot JFK, his Warren Commission testimony is false, and the FBI report records his physical description, as standard with suspects. Clearly, Greer's role was beyond a driver. ("Constant vigilance" is attributed to him.) See Vince Palamara's work. Don't expect any "mainstream" source to claim what the Zapruder film clearly shows-Greer murdered JFK because the other shots were not fatal and time was running out. Extract what ut you don't see as substantiated, but don't revert to the "driver" BS.
Then stop reverting and give me the opportunity to revise. OR, spend time researching and revising yourself, as you did with the LHO page. I'm not hanging my hat on Lifton, although he IS respected and has done much research. You can't expect a detractor from the "official" story to have the same credentials. (The US Government is credible, along with anyone else selling the lie. but critics are not simply because they are critics of the "official"? A lack of "officialdom" should not diminish their contribution to the research process. By the way, why in the Hell are you revising this so quickly and so frequently? Do you have this flagged with an alert. Five or ten minutes response time around the clock is pretty extreme. It looks like your desperately trying to hide the truth. I wrote over 2/3 of this article (most with my real user name) so don't demonize me because of Lifton. I am deadly serious about the truth.
What SPECIFCALLY violates WP policy? Please quote the text and I will edit accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.12.102 ( talk) 13:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Lifton is clear but "read the rest of this talk page" is not specific enough. Since you are so hell-bent on reverting ASAP, why don't you give more specifics please?
There's no need to remove a discussion. Vexorg ( talk) 05:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm back! I'm very happy to report that this idea is no longer "fringe". In his new five volume book, Inside the Assassination Records and Review Board, highly credible researcher Doug Horne points to William Robert Greer as a possible shooter, which is corroborated by both the Zapruder film and witness testimony, including that of Secret Service Agent Clint Hill. Now, I respectfully ask that you not revert the edits. This view is no longer "fringe". Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.137.27 ( talk) 19:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
PS: Still amazed at how rapidly this page is reverted. Someone must be standing by 24/7 with an alert coming to their mobile device, huh? Pretty fishy... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.137.27 ( talk) 19:45, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I shouldn't even bother to entertain this banned editor, but here goes anyway. The book does not mention the Zapruder Film, and only details the theory as "tentative possibility exists", and it is only included with the caveat "it would be cowardly of me not to mention it here". Horne does not seem to promote, advocate or endorse the theory, only acknowledging its existence. Read WP:FRINGE, being mentioned in a reliable source does not make it any less fringe.
On a side note thanks to the admins for prompt action regarding this, hopefully he'll get the message some time soon..... 2 lines of K 303 12:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
@ B:, @ SarekOfVulcan:, @ EdJohnston:. You have all previously taken administrative action regarding this editor, so perhaps you could keep an eye on this rather obvious reincarnation. The evidence, other than them pushing the same tired unsourced conspiracy theories about Greer;
From the latest IP "Constant Reversion of Cited, Critical Content". The Only Other People That Type Headings Like This On This Page are the previous incarnation, see for example #Why Keep Reverting When So Much Documented Fact?, #Help Edit This Article to Reflect the Historical Record, #AARB Researcher Doug Horne Points To Greer and #Why All The Reverting of a Discussion.
From the latest IP "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365 - cited analysis and criticism of Secret Service Agent William Robert Greer is falsely defined as "vandalism" and reverted to apologist, government-explanation-only content, which lacks citations". As the recent history of the article shows, the only recent mention of vandalism in the edit history is this revert of an edit repeatedly describing Greer as inept and adding other unsourced criticism. Other reverts such as this have repeatedly mentioned WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE & WP:V, never vandalism. The previous incarnation's attempts to add conspiracy theory garbage to this article and Greer related material to John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories were warned for vandalism, as the editor complains about here. Regarding the "Time and time again - almost 24/7/365" remark, this is similar to claims made by the previous incarnation such as "There is a group of watchdogs reverting this post instantly whenever any responsibility is placed on Greer" and "By the way, why in the Hell are you revising this so quickly and so frequently?".
From the latest IP additions to the article such as "The FBI recorded Greer’s physical description during an interview with him after the assassination" ( additional diffs). The previous incarnation repeatedly tried to add a similar sentence to the article in an attempt to insinuate Greer's supposed guilt, see for example "The FBI interviewed Greer after the assassination and, although agents Kellerman and Behn were also interviewed, Greer's interview is unique in that his physical description is also recorded in the 11/27/63 FBI report", this was repeatedly edit warred into the article by 173.79.229.171 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 71.246.220.204 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (every major edit to the article from either IP is a diff including that phrase).
Last, but by no means least. Even if this IP isn't the same editor that's topic banned, do we really need another single purpose account edit warring to include an unsourced conspiracy theory in total violation of WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE and WP:V? There is the last major edit by the current incarnation. The only source cited is this which is a copy of the FBI report (obviously a primary source), being used to source a sentence whose only purpose is to try and make Greer look suspicious. I am not interested in what the IP says the Zapruder film does or does not show, or what Greer said in his FBI interview, or what Secret Service procedures were. Creating a critique of Greer from those is explicitly forbidden per no original research. Neither am I interested in the contents of "Murder from Within: Lyndon Johnson's Plot Against President Kennedy" by Fred T. Newcomb (with editing by Perry Adams). This book was a manuscript that gathered dust for well over 30 years before being self-published on AuthorHouse by the author's son in 2011 shortly before the author's death. Who was Fred T. Newcomb? Nobody. Self-published conspiracy theory garbage has no place in this article, and in my opinion we shouldn't even waste time discussing it. Grewsome47 ( talk) 10:06, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
You don’t like the edits. Fair enough. Why was the editor’s Talk Page entry deleted? Secret Service Fan ( talk) 23:55, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
It seems to me that cited content pertaining to “Analysis and Criticism” of William Greer is relevant content. Other content that seemingly exonerates Greer stands for years, unsourced. “Vandalism” seems to be subjective, especially depending upon your view of the assassination. @SarekOfVulcan seems to imply his personal views are a primary reason for not exploring Greer’s role in the death of JFK. This does not seem to be in keeping with the policies of Wikipedia, or good journalism or authorship. Secret Service Fan ( talk) 00:32, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
Presumably the comments were removed due to violations of the topic ban per WP:BANREVERT, since as pointed out further up "There is no reason why the time of productive editors should continue to be wasted here, by someone who has no intention of following Wikipedia policy or respecting the consensus of the talk page".
You are welcome to appeal the topic ban, see WP:UNBAN for details. However, I would recommend you don't since it will be a pointless exercise. Why? Well, TEN YEARS later, you still have a fixation on Greer and are editing in violation of your topic ban to edit war against consensus to add a conspiracy theory and/or criticism in violation of WP:V, WP:UNDUE, WP:NOR and WP:FRINGE. Any appeal under those circumstances will be doomed to failure, so I recommend you make more productive use of your time elsewhere. Grewsome47 ( talk) 10:18, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
What is the source for the statement “Secret Service procedures in place at the time did not allow Greer to take action without orders from senior agent Roy Kellerman, who sat to Greer's right.“ Secret Service Fan ( talk) 23:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
The link to the stabilized Zapruder film is broken. I don't want to break the page so could someone take a look? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.160.249 ( talk) 00:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
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Change the location of birth from Ireland to Northern Ireland as they are seperate countries, it seems like a trivial edit but in the pursuit of accuracy the orginal is incorrect. Pheakay ( talk) 00:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Leningrad, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union" despite the fact that Leningrad has since reverted to its pre-soviet name of "St. Petersburg", and that the Russian SFSR and the Soviet Union no longer exist. — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) ( talk) 02:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)