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As loved as this song may be by Zeppelin notalgists, it was a ripoff, not a rewrite as the article suggests ('The song was a rewrite of the Willie Dixon song "You Need Love"'). This line should be changed, it's highly misinforming. It is even more so misleading since the article mentions that the band was succesfully sued by Willie Dixon for copyright infringement. The band was sued because they didn't give credit to Mr Dixon, not because they simply 'rewrote' it. -- Bentonia School 10:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Since no one's raised any flags against me, I've gone ahead and changed the article from saying "a rewrite" to "essentially a cover". Thoughts?
--
Bentonia School
11:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
It's neither a cover nor a rewrite nor a completely original song. The music is original (and completely independent from Willie Dixon's song -- Page wrote it long before Plant added the lyrics). It's hard to call something a "cover" when 3/4ths of the songwriters didn't know what they were covering. ScottSwan 20:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else hear someone scream a high-pitched, "Die!" at 3:04-3:05, right as the guitar solo starts? It blends in with the guitar part, but I'm almost positive I'm hearing it. It seems to be coming out of the left speaker only. This is a version from the Led Zeppelin Complete Studio Recordings box set, but I'm sure it's there on the original version as well. -Dan 6/29/07
No you're correct - it's Plant on the lead vox track - he sings "Oh my my my..." See this :
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-ii-1988-technidisc-cd-with-different-mastering.768690/page-3#post-19345799 Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
I deleted the sentence that the Willie Dixon song was a later influence on "Custard Pie." The statement is wrong; the lyrics to "Custard Pie" quote from Bukka White's "Bring 'Em on Down," which also appear in "Hats off to (Roy) Harper." DMO 9/23/07.
This isn't a Led Zeppelin song, or a Willie Dixon song. It's originally by Muddy Waters, this article even mentions that he recorded it in 1962! But it glosses over that and says it's a Led Zeppelin song. That's wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.115.58 ( talk) 00:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
You're ALL wrong. It is not a cover, it is not a rewrite, and it is not a rip-off. The lyrics are a rip-off, yes - but the music is certainly not. Apart from a few similarities in the chorus (minor, but there) the music is totally different from Dixons' song, and there's so much different between the two songs that claiming anything other than it being inspired slightly by Dixons' song makes you look like a bit of an idiot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.79.114 ( talk) 00:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
It is not exactly correct that Led Zeppelin wrote "Whole Lotta Love" even though they claimed themselves as the song author in their original album. Willie Dixon wrote the lyrics. The song was originally entitled "You Need Love" was put out by Muddy Waters in 1962. "You Need Loving" was put out by The Small Faces in 1966. Led Zeppelin recorded "Whole Lotta Love" in 1969.
It's no surprise that Led Zeppelin found a lot of inspiration in American blues. If a person would trace the history and evolution of one of Led Zep's biggest hits, "Whole Lotta Love" back...it's roots are with Muddy Waters. Willie Dixon wrote the lyrics and sued Led Zeppelin in 1985. They settled out of court. On the CD version of the song, Willie Dixon was given his due as the person who wrote the song.
Not only did Led Zeppelin "borrow" the song from Willie, they "borrowed" the vocal styling of the song from Steve Marriott of The Small Faces, who recorded the song four years earlier than Led Zeppelin. -Greg, 04-20-2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.3.106.127 ( talk) 22:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The article says they settled in 1985, cited with a book. However, episode #6214 of Jeopardy (Thursday, 9/29/2011) has a clue that says 'Willie Dixon had the blues, saying this hard rock group didn't credit him for "Whole Lotta Love"; the sides settled in 1987". Mattack ( talk) 06:24, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
So, let me get this straight... Willie Dixon sued them over the lyrics 'way down inside you need love'?! No one has a right to patent those words. That's like patenting 'I love you'! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.5.116 ( talk) 04:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Should it be noted that the Pink Floyd song On The Run was sampled into the song (around the 3:16 mark)? Gcrossan( Talk) 21:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Haven't any references (thats why i dint put it in the article), was just listening to the song and recognised the segment Gcrossan( Talk) 02:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The article states the following at the moment:
"Lyrics from "Mystery Train," written by Junior Parker and Sam Phillips (and recorded by Elvis Presley), also appear during the instrumental break."
Now, for the life of me I cant find any references to the lyrics of Mystery Train within Whole Lotta Love. Can this either be referenced for removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.249.100 ( talk) 15:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
It currently says there is a "theremin solo" in the jazzy/psychedelic interlude... I always assumed it was just Jimmy playing around with his guitar? Adrianrorheim ( talk) 14:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
" It is also the last track the band ever played as whole" - this statement doesn't make much sense: does it mean that it was the last song the band ever performed, at their last ever gig? And if so, was that before they split up, or at their reunion gig? I'm afraid I'm not conversant enough with their set-lists to re-write the sentence Dom Kaos ( talk) 17:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned that Singer/songwriter Jeff Buckley was reported to have sang the words to the song as he was swimming moments before vanishing under the water? The song being related to a famous singers death could possibly be worth mentioning.
In this concert, Page plays some riffs during the central jam. Does somebody know if this were recorded during Page's solo career or as Led Zeppelijn outtakes?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.54.120 ( talk) 05:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
The interview with Jimmy Page in the Wall St Journal this week ( http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-making-of-led-zeppelins-whole-lotta-love-1401390281?mod=trending_now_5&nan_pid=1804442923) suggests that the reverse echo production technique mentioned in this article was really the crosstalk from a previously recorded vocal take, which is actually mentioned earlier in this page. I suggest deleting that line about the reverse echo technique. Any objections? Andrew Hennigan ( talk) 13:42, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
If they mean the "you need..." vocal "pre echo" - that appears to me to actually be a deleted rough vox that bled into the dive/theremin-fluff/lead guit track. I explain it here:
You can see that 2018 Rhino Rough Mix release (which is supposedly a mix cut the night of tracking) lines up with track02 of the multitrack, which is the dive/fluff-theremin/lead guitar track
You can also see it on my VU video here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-ii-1988-technidisc-cd-with-different-mastering.768690/#post-19283152 Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:48, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Also note - at the "You Need...." Page and Kramer must have razor bladed that. This is confirmed with the 2018 Rhino Rough mix - the "Ta-Da" is actually about 3 beats further - it matches an unused vox and the scratch vox on the Rhino Rough mix. Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:58, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
I've taken what I put on Steve Hoffman's page and condensed it here - http://www.ajawamnet.com/ajawamnet/remixoflz.html . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.42.67 ( talk) 22:02, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Mlpearc, my edits provide useful information about the song's background. It is well-documented that it is based on earlier songs. Check out some song FAs or GAs – many include the artist's inspiration and influence in their songs. You may not like some of the material, but to make a wholesale revert is overreaching. You've reverted reliably sourced material if favor of unreferenced OR ("Robert Plant, a huge fan of blues and soul singers, regularly quoted other artists' songs, especially live", "The Small Faces were never sued by Dixon, even though "You Need Loving" still only credits Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott" – what bearing does this have?) Also, the "Released" parameter should use Template:Start date, the use of " for inches is not a recommended abbreviation according to the MOS. There IS a track listing at the bottom, why have it again in the infobox? — Ojorojo ( talk) 18:19, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
The song was notoriously banned by the BCC because of Plant's moaning. Ironically an instrumental version was later used as the theme tune for Top of the Pops pop-pickers. Stub Mandrel ( talk) 18:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
Synthwave.94, other interested editors: Please explain what wording in WP:SONGCOVER, MOS:OVERSECTION, and MOS:NO-TABLES indicates that the sourcing/layout/format in this version [1] is "correct", while this [2] supposedly isn't. The relevant guidance/guidelines are as follows:
Secondhandsongs.com, discogs.com, 45cat.com, finnishcharts.com and soulfulkindamusic.com all say this was released in September 1970. But we're saying that they must all be "unreliable" or wrong because they have "user generated" content? Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Produced by King Curtis . New York . December 14 , 1970 70C -
20806 Whole Lotta Love Atco 6779 Overdub session : Danny Moore
King Curtis, tenor sax; and others.
NYC, December 14, 1970
20806 Whole Lotta Love Atco 45-6779
In the UK was this released only as the B-side to " Boom Boom"? If so should this be mentioned? Discogs.com has some images here. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 16:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
*1970 –
CCS (or C.C.S.) recorded a mainly instrumental rendition with a flute playing the melody.
[1]
Billboard described their version as a "blockbuster instrumental treatment of the Led Zeppelin hit",
[2] while Nick Coleman of
The Independent thought that the cover "succeeded in ameliorating the tune's sexual specificity without stripping it of its rutty throb".
[1] Released as a single on the
RAK label, it reached No. 13 on the UK singles chart in November 1970.
[3] Elsewhere, it reached No. 26 in Belgium (Flanders);
[4] No. 37 in Canada;
[5] No. 58 on the US
Billboard Hot 100;
[6] and No. 58 on the US
Cash Box Top 100 Singles.
[7] The UK music variety television programme
Top of the Pops used brief versions by CCS members and others as its intro theme music at different times over the years.
[8]
[9]
Extended content
|
---|
|
Extended content
|
---|
|
On Spotify in March 2022, the credit is given as "Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup, Bernie Besman, Bukka White, Doc Pomus, Gene Pitney, James Oden, Jimmy Page, John Bonham, John Lee Hooker, John Paul Jones, Mort Shuman, Robert Plant, Willie Dixon." OK, Dixon sued before he died, but Crudup died in 1974 -- how did he & Pitney & the rest of them get there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wombatjpw ( talk • contribs) 15:17, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
https://www.ajawamnet.com/ajawamnet/remixoflz.html This is fairly enlightening. Took me hours to do this. I explain where the "pre-echo" really came from. Also the Theremin parts sounds like it should. Lot less nasty mix bus distortion too. And there's the audio examples of John Bonham groaning on almost every roll down the toms 96.255.70.154 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Whole Lotta Love article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
As loved as this song may be by Zeppelin notalgists, it was a ripoff, not a rewrite as the article suggests ('The song was a rewrite of the Willie Dixon song "You Need Love"'). This line should be changed, it's highly misinforming. It is even more so misleading since the article mentions that the band was succesfully sued by Willie Dixon for copyright infringement. The band was sued because they didn't give credit to Mr Dixon, not because they simply 'rewrote' it. -- Bentonia School 10:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Since no one's raised any flags against me, I've gone ahead and changed the article from saying "a rewrite" to "essentially a cover". Thoughts?
--
Bentonia School
11:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
It's neither a cover nor a rewrite nor a completely original song. The music is original (and completely independent from Willie Dixon's song -- Page wrote it long before Plant added the lyrics). It's hard to call something a "cover" when 3/4ths of the songwriters didn't know what they were covering. ScottSwan 20:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else hear someone scream a high-pitched, "Die!" at 3:04-3:05, right as the guitar solo starts? It blends in with the guitar part, but I'm almost positive I'm hearing it. It seems to be coming out of the left speaker only. This is a version from the Led Zeppelin Complete Studio Recordings box set, but I'm sure it's there on the original version as well. -Dan 6/29/07
No you're correct - it's Plant on the lead vox track - he sings "Oh my my my..." See this :
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-ii-1988-technidisc-cd-with-different-mastering.768690/page-3#post-19345799 Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
I deleted the sentence that the Willie Dixon song was a later influence on "Custard Pie." The statement is wrong; the lyrics to "Custard Pie" quote from Bukka White's "Bring 'Em on Down," which also appear in "Hats off to (Roy) Harper." DMO 9/23/07.
This isn't a Led Zeppelin song, or a Willie Dixon song. It's originally by Muddy Waters, this article even mentions that he recorded it in 1962! But it glosses over that and says it's a Led Zeppelin song. That's wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.115.58 ( talk) 00:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
You're ALL wrong. It is not a cover, it is not a rewrite, and it is not a rip-off. The lyrics are a rip-off, yes - but the music is certainly not. Apart from a few similarities in the chorus (minor, but there) the music is totally different from Dixons' song, and there's so much different between the two songs that claiming anything other than it being inspired slightly by Dixons' song makes you look like a bit of an idiot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.79.114 ( talk) 00:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
It is not exactly correct that Led Zeppelin wrote "Whole Lotta Love" even though they claimed themselves as the song author in their original album. Willie Dixon wrote the lyrics. The song was originally entitled "You Need Love" was put out by Muddy Waters in 1962. "You Need Loving" was put out by The Small Faces in 1966. Led Zeppelin recorded "Whole Lotta Love" in 1969.
It's no surprise that Led Zeppelin found a lot of inspiration in American blues. If a person would trace the history and evolution of one of Led Zep's biggest hits, "Whole Lotta Love" back...it's roots are with Muddy Waters. Willie Dixon wrote the lyrics and sued Led Zeppelin in 1985. They settled out of court. On the CD version of the song, Willie Dixon was given his due as the person who wrote the song.
Not only did Led Zeppelin "borrow" the song from Willie, they "borrowed" the vocal styling of the song from Steve Marriott of The Small Faces, who recorded the song four years earlier than Led Zeppelin. -Greg, 04-20-2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.3.106.127 ( talk) 22:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The article says they settled in 1985, cited with a book. However, episode #6214 of Jeopardy (Thursday, 9/29/2011) has a clue that says 'Willie Dixon had the blues, saying this hard rock group didn't credit him for "Whole Lotta Love"; the sides settled in 1987". Mattack ( talk) 06:24, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
So, let me get this straight... Willie Dixon sued them over the lyrics 'way down inside you need love'?! No one has a right to patent those words. That's like patenting 'I love you'! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.5.116 ( talk) 04:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Should it be noted that the Pink Floyd song On The Run was sampled into the song (around the 3:16 mark)? Gcrossan( Talk) 21:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Haven't any references (thats why i dint put it in the article), was just listening to the song and recognised the segment Gcrossan( Talk) 02:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The article states the following at the moment:
"Lyrics from "Mystery Train," written by Junior Parker and Sam Phillips (and recorded by Elvis Presley), also appear during the instrumental break."
Now, for the life of me I cant find any references to the lyrics of Mystery Train within Whole Lotta Love. Can this either be referenced for removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.249.100 ( talk) 15:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
It currently says there is a "theremin solo" in the jazzy/psychedelic interlude... I always assumed it was just Jimmy playing around with his guitar? Adrianrorheim ( talk) 14:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
" It is also the last track the band ever played as whole" - this statement doesn't make much sense: does it mean that it was the last song the band ever performed, at their last ever gig? And if so, was that before they split up, or at their reunion gig? I'm afraid I'm not conversant enough with their set-lists to re-write the sentence Dom Kaos ( talk) 17:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned that Singer/songwriter Jeff Buckley was reported to have sang the words to the song as he was swimming moments before vanishing under the water? The song being related to a famous singers death could possibly be worth mentioning.
In this concert, Page plays some riffs during the central jam. Does somebody know if this were recorded during Page's solo career or as Led Zeppelijn outtakes?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.54.120 ( talk) 05:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
The interview with Jimmy Page in the Wall St Journal this week ( http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-making-of-led-zeppelins-whole-lotta-love-1401390281?mod=trending_now_5&nan_pid=1804442923) suggests that the reverse echo production technique mentioned in this article was really the crosstalk from a previously recorded vocal take, which is actually mentioned earlier in this page. I suggest deleting that line about the reverse echo technique. Any objections? Andrew Hennigan ( talk) 13:42, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
If they mean the "you need..." vocal "pre echo" - that appears to me to actually be a deleted rough vox that bled into the dive/theremin-fluff/lead guit track. I explain it here:
You can see that 2018 Rhino Rough Mix release (which is supposedly a mix cut the night of tracking) lines up with track02 of the multitrack, which is the dive/fluff-theremin/lead guitar track
You can also see it on my VU video here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-ii-1988-technidisc-cd-with-different-mastering.768690/#post-19283152 Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:48, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Also note - at the "You Need...." Page and Kramer must have razor bladed that. This is confirmed with the 2018 Rhino Rough mix - the "Ta-Da" is actually about 3 beats further - it matches an unused vox and the scratch vox on the Rhino Rough mix. Wamnet ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:58, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
I've taken what I put on Steve Hoffman's page and condensed it here - http://www.ajawamnet.com/ajawamnet/remixoflz.html . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.42.67 ( talk) 22:02, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Mlpearc, my edits provide useful information about the song's background. It is well-documented that it is based on earlier songs. Check out some song FAs or GAs – many include the artist's inspiration and influence in their songs. You may not like some of the material, but to make a wholesale revert is overreaching. You've reverted reliably sourced material if favor of unreferenced OR ("Robert Plant, a huge fan of blues and soul singers, regularly quoted other artists' songs, especially live", "The Small Faces were never sued by Dixon, even though "You Need Loving" still only credits Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott" – what bearing does this have?) Also, the "Released" parameter should use Template:Start date, the use of " for inches is not a recommended abbreviation according to the MOS. There IS a track listing at the bottom, why have it again in the infobox? — Ojorojo ( talk) 18:19, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
The song was notoriously banned by the BCC because of Plant's moaning. Ironically an instrumental version was later used as the theme tune for Top of the Pops pop-pickers. Stub Mandrel ( talk) 18:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
Synthwave.94, other interested editors: Please explain what wording in WP:SONGCOVER, MOS:OVERSECTION, and MOS:NO-TABLES indicates that the sourcing/layout/format in this version [1] is "correct", while this [2] supposedly isn't. The relevant guidance/guidelines are as follows:
Secondhandsongs.com, discogs.com, 45cat.com, finnishcharts.com and soulfulkindamusic.com all say this was released in September 1970. But we're saying that they must all be "unreliable" or wrong because they have "user generated" content? Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Produced by King Curtis . New York . December 14 , 1970 70C -
20806 Whole Lotta Love Atco 6779 Overdub session : Danny Moore
King Curtis, tenor sax; and others.
NYC, December 14, 1970
20806 Whole Lotta Love Atco 45-6779
In the UK was this released only as the B-side to " Boom Boom"? If so should this be mentioned? Discogs.com has some images here. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 16:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
*1970 –
CCS (or C.C.S.) recorded a mainly instrumental rendition with a flute playing the melody.
[1]
Billboard described their version as a "blockbuster instrumental treatment of the Led Zeppelin hit",
[2] while Nick Coleman of
The Independent thought that the cover "succeeded in ameliorating the tune's sexual specificity without stripping it of its rutty throb".
[1] Released as a single on the
RAK label, it reached No. 13 on the UK singles chart in November 1970.
[3] Elsewhere, it reached No. 26 in Belgium (Flanders);
[4] No. 37 in Canada;
[5] No. 58 on the US
Billboard Hot 100;
[6] and No. 58 on the US
Cash Box Top 100 Singles.
[7] The UK music variety television programme
Top of the Pops used brief versions by CCS members and others as its intro theme music at different times over the years.
[8]
[9]
Extended content
|
---|
|
Extended content
|
---|
|
On Spotify in March 2022, the credit is given as "Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup, Bernie Besman, Bukka White, Doc Pomus, Gene Pitney, James Oden, Jimmy Page, John Bonham, John Lee Hooker, John Paul Jones, Mort Shuman, Robert Plant, Willie Dixon." OK, Dixon sued before he died, but Crudup died in 1974 -- how did he & Pitney & the rest of them get there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wombatjpw ( talk • contribs) 15:17, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
https://www.ajawamnet.com/ajawamnet/remixoflz.html This is fairly enlightening. Took me hours to do this. I explain where the "pre-echo" really came from. Also the Theremin parts sounds like it should. Lot less nasty mix bus distortion too. And there's the audio examples of John Bonham groaning on almost every roll down the toms 96.255.70.154 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)