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This article and the article Walla Walla Massacre deal with the same incident, with slightly different perspectives. Perhaps a merge is in order? WBardwin 08:03, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps there should also be an incorporation of the Cayuse War article's information. Schwael 06:22, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Are these facts? Is there a reference for them? They sound fishy to me. Perhaps they lived at the site where the mission was set up, but at the actuall mission?? The second one just sounds made up to me, but I don't know much about their cultures, so it could be fact... Schwael 08:20, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I'll see what else I can find. -- Mwanner 21:34, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
Confirmation: My history teacher confirms the 2nd fact.
Please look over the quick stub I created for Tiloukaikt. Much of the information is similar to that in this article and the Cayuse War, and I swiped the image as well. Comments and edits always welcome. WBardwin 06:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I vacillate between thinking that many smaller articles are intimate and interesting and large, comprehensive articles are impressive. There are many arguments on both sides. In this case, I think that Tiloukaikt and Marcus Whitman, as people, would both deserve a brief biography. However, historical incidents, like the Massacre and the Cayuse War, could be more appropriately combined. Will be glad to work on any arrangement of the articles, however....And, Mwanner, thank you for the writing compliment. WBardwin 07:39, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
The new article Whitman Agency Oregon looks to be duplicate subject of this article, though it has a different way of approaching the topic. I think it should be merged into this article leaving a redirect. — EncMstr ( talk) 02:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
In chapter IV of J.P. Dunn, Jr., Massacres of the mountains: a history of the Indian wars of the far West 1815-1875 (1885, now ISBN 978-0811728133), which describes the Whitman massacre in great detail, the massacre is placed in the context of two territorial conflicts in which the Whitman settlement was a key element. First, the Hudson's Bay Company at the time held sway over the Oregon territory and resisted American pioneers settling there. As detailed in the Whitman article, Whitman had brought a great many American pioneers with him, and also brought certain agricultural techniques to the Cayuses, which the Company felt reduced the land area that could be exploited for fur gathering. Since the Hudson's Bay Company was from British America (Canada), this conflict reduces to an American-British conflict over unclaimed territories. Second, the Whitmans were protestant missionaries and the book describes how Protestant and Catholic (Jesuit) missionary activity in the area was more about claiming the territory for their version of Christianity than about (jointly) converting the Indians. This conflict then transfers European religious wars to the new territories. The article does mention the possible role of the Jesuit missionaries, but is silent on the role of the Hudson's Bay Company. But it is certainly imaginable that the fur traders, too, played into the Indian resentment about Whitman's failure as a doctor among them and thus sparked these events to remove the stick in the mud that the Whitman's mission represented to their territorial aspirations. Dunn reports that these allegations were investigated and circulated widely at the time. I'm just wondering why none of this can be found in the article. Has this theory since been rejected? Zwart ( talk) 14:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
When I was in middle school in Washington (up in Oak Harbor, in 1998 or 1999) I was taught in our state studies class that a contributing factor to the violence was that several Indians died due to food poisoning. This was brought on from their theft of crops from the mission garden which had been sprayed with pesticides.
Can't really give you a source other than myself, but it's another part of the story if you'd like to include it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.95.128.213 ( talk) 01:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
As I usually do, I like to establish what I'm doing when on mass-edit sprees. Given how short Waiilatpu Mission is, I think once I'm done adding content that the two articles should be merged. Anyway here's what I have planned for expansion:
I'll keep trudging forward. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 06:43, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
... beginning with Miss Bewley, according to survivor Catherine Sager Pringle's eyewitness account in Across the Plains in 1844. It's on page 32 in the Ye Galleon Press second edition of 1993. Starhistory22 ( talk) 04:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
280 Ibid, 19. Lorinda [Bewley] was repeatedly raped by a Cayuse name Tamsucky before her captivity with Chief Five Crows.
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 15:06, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Whitman massacre → Tragedy at Waiilatpu – The name "Whitman massacre" is no longer in use by the National Park Service. Instead "Tragedy at Waiilatpu" has been used to describe the events in a more neutral way that accounts for the tragic loss of life of not only the Whitmans and the white settlers, but also of the Cayuse people. I believe following the NPS' lead here makes sense for Wikipedia's standards. [1] [2] [3]
References
CodeHitchhiker ( talk) 14:04, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
CodeHitchhiker ( talk) 14:59, 7 April 2022 (UTC)In the 1980s the National Park Service, which operates the Whitman Mission National Historic Site, stopped commemorating the annual anniversary of the attack on the mission; redesigned its displays to give more attention to the Cayuse and a more balanced assessment of their interactions with the Whitmans; and phased out the use of the word “massacre” in favor of more neutral language. “[Massacre]” appeared five times in a four-page brochure distributed by the Park Service in the late 1950s. In contrast, it was not used at all in brochures available in 1997, the 150th anniversary of what instead was called the Tragedy at Waiilatpu.
Concerning the last paragraph, where it says not calling it a massacre is an attempt to more neutrally and holistically describe
the event, appears to be in Wikivoice. This should be attributed instead, especially since consensus above has us on "massacre" for the common name.
Further, to address the fallacy in this revisionism, the article is about the massacre (and indeed, the vicious murder of 13 people counts as a massacre). Such events are superbly historic exactly because they are so short temporally, but they had far lasting effects on history. For example, the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and the September 11 attacks, are all articles about those events, and the effects are discussed. Major effects, like World War I, World War II, and the War on terror have their own articles, and are also not exactly fully encompassing of all the effects themselves. History is long and messy.
If the effects of the Whitman Massacre need more than discussion on this article, figure out the common name and make a new article. Ain't nobody calling it the tragedy of whatever, I can promise you.
But this "whites can't be massacred" flavor is repulsive, and should not be in Wikivoice.
As an aside, I was just visiting the Cataldo Mission (nearby), where the CDA Tribe has somehow managed to "own" all of it, while the parks department pays for everything. This arrangement apparently gives the Tribe great influence over what's written and displayed in the newish museum. In a related and conspiratorial "brown washing" kind of way, one of the plaques says "Disease killed many Indians. It seemed to the Indians that the disease always came with the white man. Did it always come with the white man?"
Racism of any color is really gross. About 60 Cayuse brutally murdered 13 white people for specious reasons, and then took 53 white people hostage. Some modern white-hating hacks want to downplay this, even though everyone close to it is dead for a hundred years.
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 29, 2015 and November 29, 2018. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article and the article Walla Walla Massacre deal with the same incident, with slightly different perspectives. Perhaps a merge is in order? WBardwin 08:03, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps there should also be an incorporation of the Cayuse War article's information. Schwael 06:22, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Are these facts? Is there a reference for them? They sound fishy to me. Perhaps they lived at the site where the mission was set up, but at the actuall mission?? The second one just sounds made up to me, but I don't know much about their cultures, so it could be fact... Schwael 08:20, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I'll see what else I can find. -- Mwanner 21:34, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
Confirmation: My history teacher confirms the 2nd fact.
Please look over the quick stub I created for Tiloukaikt. Much of the information is similar to that in this article and the Cayuse War, and I swiped the image as well. Comments and edits always welcome. WBardwin 06:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I vacillate between thinking that many smaller articles are intimate and interesting and large, comprehensive articles are impressive. There are many arguments on both sides. In this case, I think that Tiloukaikt and Marcus Whitman, as people, would both deserve a brief biography. However, historical incidents, like the Massacre and the Cayuse War, could be more appropriately combined. Will be glad to work on any arrangement of the articles, however....And, Mwanner, thank you for the writing compliment. WBardwin 07:39, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
The new article Whitman Agency Oregon looks to be duplicate subject of this article, though it has a different way of approaching the topic. I think it should be merged into this article leaving a redirect. — EncMstr ( talk) 02:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
In chapter IV of J.P. Dunn, Jr., Massacres of the mountains: a history of the Indian wars of the far West 1815-1875 (1885, now ISBN 978-0811728133), which describes the Whitman massacre in great detail, the massacre is placed in the context of two territorial conflicts in which the Whitman settlement was a key element. First, the Hudson's Bay Company at the time held sway over the Oregon territory and resisted American pioneers settling there. As detailed in the Whitman article, Whitman had brought a great many American pioneers with him, and also brought certain agricultural techniques to the Cayuses, which the Company felt reduced the land area that could be exploited for fur gathering. Since the Hudson's Bay Company was from British America (Canada), this conflict reduces to an American-British conflict over unclaimed territories. Second, the Whitmans were protestant missionaries and the book describes how Protestant and Catholic (Jesuit) missionary activity in the area was more about claiming the territory for their version of Christianity than about (jointly) converting the Indians. This conflict then transfers European religious wars to the new territories. The article does mention the possible role of the Jesuit missionaries, but is silent on the role of the Hudson's Bay Company. But it is certainly imaginable that the fur traders, too, played into the Indian resentment about Whitman's failure as a doctor among them and thus sparked these events to remove the stick in the mud that the Whitman's mission represented to their territorial aspirations. Dunn reports that these allegations were investigated and circulated widely at the time. I'm just wondering why none of this can be found in the article. Has this theory since been rejected? Zwart ( talk) 14:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
When I was in middle school in Washington (up in Oak Harbor, in 1998 or 1999) I was taught in our state studies class that a contributing factor to the violence was that several Indians died due to food poisoning. This was brought on from their theft of crops from the mission garden which had been sprayed with pesticides.
Can't really give you a source other than myself, but it's another part of the story if you'd like to include it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.95.128.213 ( talk) 01:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
As I usually do, I like to establish what I'm doing when on mass-edit sprees. Given how short Waiilatpu Mission is, I think once I'm done adding content that the two articles should be merged. Anyway here's what I have planned for expansion:
I'll keep trudging forward. Voltaire's Vaquero ( talk) 06:43, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
... beginning with Miss Bewley, according to survivor Catherine Sager Pringle's eyewitness account in Across the Plains in 1844. It's on page 32 in the Ye Galleon Press second edition of 1993. Starhistory22 ( talk) 04:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
280 Ibid, 19. Lorinda [Bewley] was repeatedly raped by a Cayuse name Tamsucky before her captivity with Chief Five Crows.
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 15:06, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Whitman massacre → Tragedy at Waiilatpu – The name "Whitman massacre" is no longer in use by the National Park Service. Instead "Tragedy at Waiilatpu" has been used to describe the events in a more neutral way that accounts for the tragic loss of life of not only the Whitmans and the white settlers, but also of the Cayuse people. I believe following the NPS' lead here makes sense for Wikipedia's standards. [1] [2] [3]
References
CodeHitchhiker ( talk) 14:04, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
CodeHitchhiker ( talk) 14:59, 7 April 2022 (UTC)In the 1980s the National Park Service, which operates the Whitman Mission National Historic Site, stopped commemorating the annual anniversary of the attack on the mission; redesigned its displays to give more attention to the Cayuse and a more balanced assessment of their interactions with the Whitmans; and phased out the use of the word “massacre” in favor of more neutral language. “[Massacre]” appeared five times in a four-page brochure distributed by the Park Service in the late 1950s. In contrast, it was not used at all in brochures available in 1997, the 150th anniversary of what instead was called the Tragedy at Waiilatpu.
Concerning the last paragraph, where it says not calling it a massacre is an attempt to more neutrally and holistically describe
the event, appears to be in Wikivoice. This should be attributed instead, especially since consensus above has us on "massacre" for the common name.
Further, to address the fallacy in this revisionism, the article is about the massacre (and indeed, the vicious murder of 13 people counts as a massacre). Such events are superbly historic exactly because they are so short temporally, but they had far lasting effects on history. For example, the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and the September 11 attacks, are all articles about those events, and the effects are discussed. Major effects, like World War I, World War II, and the War on terror have their own articles, and are also not exactly fully encompassing of all the effects themselves. History is long and messy.
If the effects of the Whitman Massacre need more than discussion on this article, figure out the common name and make a new article. Ain't nobody calling it the tragedy of whatever, I can promise you.
But this "whites can't be massacred" flavor is repulsive, and should not be in Wikivoice.
As an aside, I was just visiting the Cataldo Mission (nearby), where the CDA Tribe has somehow managed to "own" all of it, while the parks department pays for everything. This arrangement apparently gives the Tribe great influence over what's written and displayed in the newish museum. In a related and conspiratorial "brown washing" kind of way, one of the plaques says "Disease killed many Indians. It seemed to the Indians that the disease always came with the white man. Did it always come with the white man?"
Racism of any color is really gross. About 60 Cayuse brutally murdered 13 white people for specious reasons, and then took 53 white people hostage. Some modern white-hating hacks want to downplay this, even though everyone close to it is dead for a hundred years.