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![]() | On 13 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Western civilization. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
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Please can you send the exact meaning of the word Western culture 41.210.155.79 ( talk) 16:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Western civilization and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 28#Western civilization until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Privybst (
talk) 13:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
For example the following statement: “ Christianity laid a stress on the inward aspects of actions and on motives, notions that were foreign to the ancient world.” - is wrong. Both Buddhism and Hindu philosophies has a central concept of actions, motives and consequences called karma, which is an inward aspect concerning the individual. The Christian notion of reaching commune with god can be likened to the Buddhist enlightenment, or liberation from the cycle of suffering existence, although the similarity cannot be taken far. In both cases the individual self or ego is overcome, which is a new irreversible state of existence. 49.198.107.1 ( talk) 02:43, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
It looks like an edit war is brewing and I think it is time to bring the discussion to the talk page, rather than trying to have it in the edit summaries. The discussion ought to be based on what reliable sources say - not our own opinions. It's probably worth taking stock also of the comments in the terminology section of the article "Since the context is highly biased and context-dependent, there is no agreed definition of what the "West" is." There's also a question about why we're singling out the Philippines in particular - the lead can't become a list of every country in the world that counts as "western" @ Keroscene777:, @ Wowza5005:. Furius ( talk) 12:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
I get that ancient greece and and ancient rome laid the foundations for western culture, but in what way has germanic culture strongly influenced western culture, as to be on par with greco-roman culture? I know there are minor influences, but I fail to see how it strongly influenced western culture, apart from the romanticized and mostly fictionalized vikings in pop culture. 90.231.171.26 ( talk) 22:31, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
A cornerstone of Western thought, beginning in ancient Greece and continuing through the Middle Ages and Renaissance, is the idea of rationalism in various spheres of life developed by Hellenistic philosophy, scholasticism and humanism.
Does 'Hellenistic' modify just the first item, or all three? Should not be left to the reader to arbitrate this. Those buffing up the yada yada they've heard a thousand times before will make a reasonable guess, the rest won't.
Degree of difficulty: scholasticism dates back to Aristotle, but there's no page on Wikipedia titled "classical humanism". — MaxEnt 22:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
For the record, here's what the lead looks like after I expanding it into note form for my own personal Wiki:
Western culture is the Western heritage of:
- social norms
- ethical values
- traditional customs
- belief systems
- political systems
- artifacts and technologies
The term applies beyond Europe to
- countries
- cultures
whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by:
- immigration
- colonization
- influence
Western culture is most strongly influenced by:
- Greco-Roman culture
- Christian culture
- Germanic culture — to some extent
The expansion of Greek culture into the Hellenistic world of the eastern Mediterranean led to:
- synthesis between Greek and Near-Eastern cultures
- major advances:
- literature
- engineering
- science
- cultural foundation for the expansion of:
- early Christianity
- Greek New Testament
This period overlapped with and was followed by the Roman Empire, which made key contributions in:
- law
- government
- engineering
- political organization
Western culture is characterized by a host of themes and traditions:
- artistic
- philosophic
- literary
- legal
Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization since at least the 4th century
- primarily the Roman Catholic Church
- later Protestantism
Judaism was also influential.
A cornerstone of Western thought
- beginning in ancient Greece
- continuing through the Middle Ages
- continuing through the Renaissance
is the idea of rationalism in various spheres of life developed by:
- Hellenistic philosophy
- scholasticism
- humanism
Empiricism later gave rise to the:
- scientific method
- scientific revolution
- Age of Enlightenment
Western culture continued to develop with:
- Christianization of European society during the Middle Ages
- reforms triggered by the medieval renaissances
- influence of the Islamic world via Al-Andalus and Sicily, including:
- transfer of technology from the East
- Latin translations of Arabic texts on science and philosophy
- by Greek and Hellenic-influenced Islamic philosophers
- Italian Renaissance
During the Italian Renaissance, Greek scholars fleeing the fall of the Byzantine Empire after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople brought classical traditions and philosophy.
This major change for non-Western countries and their people saw a development in modernization in those countries.
Medieval Christianity is credited with creating:
- modern university
- modern hospital system
- scientific economics
- natural law
- would later influence the creation of international law
Christianity played a role in ending practices common among European pagans at the time, such as:
- human sacrifice
- infanticide
European culture developed with a complex range of:
- philosophy
- medieval scholasticism
- mysticism
- Christian humanism
- secular humanism
Rational thinking developed through a long age of change and formation:
- experiments of the Enlightenment
- breakthroughs in the sciences
Tendencies that have come to define modern Western societies include:
- concept of political pluralism
- individualism
- prominent subcultures or countercultures — such as New Age movements
- increasing cultural syncretism
- resulting from
- globalization
- human migration
Bleh! These relentless bullet lists are never my favourite article leads. Apart from the bullets, we have one good sentence:
"During the Italian Renaissance, Greek scholars fleeing the fall of the Byzantine Empire after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople brought classical traditions and philosophy."
But that wasn't even a self-contained sentence until I split it off from an overgrown parental bullet list.
I'm not proposing any specific change here. I'm strictly on the "is" side of the is–ought problem. But maybe someone else will look at this and come up with an editorial intervention that lessens the listicle overage. — MaxEnt 22:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
I would suggest changing "Western civilization, broadly defined, finds its roots in the foundations laid by
Greco-Roman civilization, and the tenets of
Western Christianity. It has also been significantly influenced by societal influences from
Germanic peoples,
Celts and
Iberians, and by wider
Judeo-Christian values" to "Western civilization, broadly defined, originates from the combined foundations of
Greco-Roman civilization and
Western Christianity.Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page). Western culture also comprises and has been influenced by other (sub-)cultures, such as
Germanic,
Celtic,
West Slavic,
Jewish, and further, non-Indo-European cultures such as the
Etruscans and
Ancient Iberians." This adds the West Slavs and Etruscans, whose influence matches, if not exceeds, that of the Ancient Iberians, whose influence is minimal. Further, the language becomes clearer and more definitive without changing the substance of what is being said.
2603:7000:9900:3000:ED6D:4592:2838:C921 (
talk) 03:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Western culture article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 13 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Western civilization. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 8 sections are present. |
Please can you send the exact meaning of the word Western culture 41.210.155.79 ( talk) 16:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Western civilization and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 28#Western civilization until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Privybst (
talk) 13:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
For example the following statement: “ Christianity laid a stress on the inward aspects of actions and on motives, notions that were foreign to the ancient world.” - is wrong. Both Buddhism and Hindu philosophies has a central concept of actions, motives and consequences called karma, which is an inward aspect concerning the individual. The Christian notion of reaching commune with god can be likened to the Buddhist enlightenment, or liberation from the cycle of suffering existence, although the similarity cannot be taken far. In both cases the individual self or ego is overcome, which is a new irreversible state of existence. 49.198.107.1 ( talk) 02:43, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
It looks like an edit war is brewing and I think it is time to bring the discussion to the talk page, rather than trying to have it in the edit summaries. The discussion ought to be based on what reliable sources say - not our own opinions. It's probably worth taking stock also of the comments in the terminology section of the article "Since the context is highly biased and context-dependent, there is no agreed definition of what the "West" is." There's also a question about why we're singling out the Philippines in particular - the lead can't become a list of every country in the world that counts as "western" @ Keroscene777:, @ Wowza5005:. Furius ( talk) 12:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
I get that ancient greece and and ancient rome laid the foundations for western culture, but in what way has germanic culture strongly influenced western culture, as to be on par with greco-roman culture? I know there are minor influences, but I fail to see how it strongly influenced western culture, apart from the romanticized and mostly fictionalized vikings in pop culture. 90.231.171.26 ( talk) 22:31, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
A cornerstone of Western thought, beginning in ancient Greece and continuing through the Middle Ages and Renaissance, is the idea of rationalism in various spheres of life developed by Hellenistic philosophy, scholasticism and humanism.
Does 'Hellenistic' modify just the first item, or all three? Should not be left to the reader to arbitrate this. Those buffing up the yada yada they've heard a thousand times before will make a reasonable guess, the rest won't.
Degree of difficulty: scholasticism dates back to Aristotle, but there's no page on Wikipedia titled "classical humanism". — MaxEnt 22:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
For the record, here's what the lead looks like after I expanding it into note form for my own personal Wiki:
Western culture is the Western heritage of:
- social norms
- ethical values
- traditional customs
- belief systems
- political systems
- artifacts and technologies
The term applies beyond Europe to
- countries
- cultures
whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by:
- immigration
- colonization
- influence
Western culture is most strongly influenced by:
- Greco-Roman culture
- Christian culture
- Germanic culture — to some extent
The expansion of Greek culture into the Hellenistic world of the eastern Mediterranean led to:
- synthesis between Greek and Near-Eastern cultures
- major advances:
- literature
- engineering
- science
- cultural foundation for the expansion of:
- early Christianity
- Greek New Testament
This period overlapped with and was followed by the Roman Empire, which made key contributions in:
- law
- government
- engineering
- political organization
Western culture is characterized by a host of themes and traditions:
- artistic
- philosophic
- literary
- legal
Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization since at least the 4th century
- primarily the Roman Catholic Church
- later Protestantism
Judaism was also influential.
A cornerstone of Western thought
- beginning in ancient Greece
- continuing through the Middle Ages
- continuing through the Renaissance
is the idea of rationalism in various spheres of life developed by:
- Hellenistic philosophy
- scholasticism
- humanism
Empiricism later gave rise to the:
- scientific method
- scientific revolution
- Age of Enlightenment
Western culture continued to develop with:
- Christianization of European society during the Middle Ages
- reforms triggered by the medieval renaissances
- influence of the Islamic world via Al-Andalus and Sicily, including:
- transfer of technology from the East
- Latin translations of Arabic texts on science and philosophy
- by Greek and Hellenic-influenced Islamic philosophers
- Italian Renaissance
During the Italian Renaissance, Greek scholars fleeing the fall of the Byzantine Empire after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople brought classical traditions and philosophy.
This major change for non-Western countries and their people saw a development in modernization in those countries.
Medieval Christianity is credited with creating:
- modern university
- modern hospital system
- scientific economics
- natural law
- would later influence the creation of international law
Christianity played a role in ending practices common among European pagans at the time, such as:
- human sacrifice
- infanticide
European culture developed with a complex range of:
- philosophy
- medieval scholasticism
- mysticism
- Christian humanism
- secular humanism
Rational thinking developed through a long age of change and formation:
- experiments of the Enlightenment
- breakthroughs in the sciences
Tendencies that have come to define modern Western societies include:
- concept of political pluralism
- individualism
- prominent subcultures or countercultures — such as New Age movements
- increasing cultural syncretism
- resulting from
- globalization
- human migration
Bleh! These relentless bullet lists are never my favourite article leads. Apart from the bullets, we have one good sentence:
"During the Italian Renaissance, Greek scholars fleeing the fall of the Byzantine Empire after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople brought classical traditions and philosophy."
But that wasn't even a self-contained sentence until I split it off from an overgrown parental bullet list.
I'm not proposing any specific change here. I'm strictly on the "is" side of the is–ought problem. But maybe someone else will look at this and come up with an editorial intervention that lessens the listicle overage. — MaxEnt 22:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
I would suggest changing "Western civilization, broadly defined, finds its roots in the foundations laid by
Greco-Roman civilization, and the tenets of
Western Christianity. It has also been significantly influenced by societal influences from
Germanic peoples,
Celts and
Iberians, and by wider
Judeo-Christian values" to "Western civilization, broadly defined, originates from the combined foundations of
Greco-Roman civilization and
Western Christianity.Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).Cite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page). Western culture also comprises and has been influenced by other (sub-)cultures, such as
Germanic,
Celtic,
West Slavic,
Jewish, and further, non-Indo-European cultures such as the
Etruscans and
Ancient Iberians." This adds the West Slavs and Etruscans, whose influence matches, if not exceeds, that of the Ancient Iberians, whose influence is minimal. Further, the language becomes clearer and more definitive without changing the substance of what is being said.
2603:7000:9900:3000:ED6D:4592:2838:C921 (
talk) 03:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)