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War crimes in the Tigray War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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@
MfactDr: We
currently have (without links) In November 2020, Genocide Watch upgraded its alert status for Ethiopia as a whole to the ninth stage of genocide, extermination, referring to the 2020 Oromo schoolyard massacre, Casualties of the Tigray War,2020 Ethiopia bus attack and Metekel massacre and listing affected groups as the Amhara, Tigrayans, Oromo, Gedeo, Gumuz, Agaw and qemant[16]
.
The Genocide Watch public announcement mentions:
Genocide Watch is updating its Genocide Emergency Alert due to this war.
So I think the current edit is reasonably compatible with the source and only needs copyediting, but if people want to discuss it more, here's there's space to do so... Boud ( talk) 00:32, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Genocide watch go beyond reporting massacre on one side report and even recommend change constitution of the country to stop secession of regional state of federation.its up to people of the country whether stay together or apart. there are many massacres in past namely irreecha massacre, anuak genocide so more. I am really sad what happened to this country not able to accommodate each other in whole history the country. in 2018 thing expected to change, however getting worse. its so unfortunate. any way thanks for contributing MfactDr ( talk) 01:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Should not parts of the "war crimes" in Tigray be split over to another page, covering crimes against humanity towards Tigrayans?
Reasoning 1:
War crimes solely happens in times of war, while crimes against humanity are not dependent on warfare in itself. If reaching a severe enough level, war crimes might constitute crimes against humanity. For Tigray, such a level has probably been met, so that it should ble split up.
Reasoning 2: Much points towards that the crimes against humanity committed by Ethiopia and it's allied Amhara militia and Eritrea, are not side-effects of a civil war, but rather the main objective.
For Tigray, several sources point towards that the ethnic cleansing, massacres and destructions of means of existence, was pre-planned and started before the war breaking out on the 3rd of November 2020. In other words, they don't happens as war crimes as a side-effect of war, but it's the objective of the "war" itself.
Some sources:
1. Ethiopia and Amhara militia broadcasting a planned genocide on the Tigrayans, on Ethiopian state TV already in October 2020:
https://mobile.twitter.com/GebrekirstosG/status/1364983791241019392
This planned genocide neccetitated a war, but it should not be hidden under a "war crimes"-title. IMO this looks like Rwanda in 1994: Took a long time to realize that the Rwandan genocide was not a war fueling massacres, but instead a genocide under the disguise of labeling it first a "rebellion" from the victims, and then an armed conflict. The genocide-stoppers RPF was named "rebels", while the government carrying out the genocide was describes as participating in counter-insurgency and a civil war.
2. Martin Plaut describing that before Ethiopia's claimed "trigger" for the war on Tigray,
"there had already been some fighting in Western Tigray by then between Amhara Special Forces and Tigrean troops":
3. The Week: A witness describing that the genocide started well before the outbreak of the "war" on Tigray:
"H.A. also confirms what some outside observers have suspected, namely that in Ethiopia there was violence well before November, when reports first emerged of a government-forced blackout following a canceled election. In the countryside, he said, militias were stealing food and burning crops in October. Women were raped, children were murdered. At a farm owned by one of his relations, all but one of the farmhands were killed; at a looted factory owned by a business associate, no one survived. Ethiopian military personnel claimed that nothing could be done".
https://theweek.com/articles-amp/969219/eyewitness-account-atrocities-tigray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.212.72.232 ( talk) 16:05, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
TPLF started the war and is involved in massacring civilians in Amhara and Tigray. Here is what was stated by ENDF in November prior to the alleged Axum massacre: “We have received inside information that by recording this acts, TPLF is planning to falsely accuse the Ethiopian Army for killing civilians,” Major General Mohammed Tessema, head of ENDF Indoctrination told the state broadcaster – ETV last night. He indicated that the TPLF is planning to undertake a genocide like “it did recently at Maykadra”.
Here are statements by TPLF leader Debretsion on the day of the alleged Axum massacre: Debretsion states Axum retaken. https://www.trtworld.com/africa/tigray-forces-claim-downing-ethiopian-military-plane-retaking-axum-town-41909/amp
History of statements by Ethiopian government this can corroborated with media releases at those times https://mobile.twitter.com/SOEFactCheck/status/1330897185202909187?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1330897185202909187%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnewbusinessethiopia.com%2Fpolitics%2Ftplf-to-target-civilians-using-eritrean-ethiopian-army-uniforms%2F
If TPLF was in control of Axum during the massacre and they are wearing Eritrean uniforms, then by logic any massacre that happened was done by TPLF soldiers in Eritrean uniforms.
Statement by Ethiopian government MoFA:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mfaethiopia/status/1365293011882696710 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Facttell ( talk • contribs) 19:19, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Here are TPLF militia caught in Eritrean uniforms:
Tplf militia murdering raping Eritrean refugees in Mai. Afi camp: https://mobile.twitter.com/tesfanews/status/1356781796340367362
Tplf militia leader and his troops arrested in Sudanese refugee camp where Amnesty International interviewed his troops hiding as refugees as witnesses in the Axum massacre of which they were involved in:
https://www.ena.et/en/?p=19794
Facttell (
talk) 18:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.ezega.com/News/NewsDetails/8252/TPLF-Took-More-Than-10000-Prisoners-from-Abandoned-Towns-Ethiopian-Military Facttell ( talk) 01:38, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
10,000 Tigrayan criminals released by TPLF at the beginning of Conflict
https://allafrica.com/stories/202102260384.html
“ Noting that conspiracy politics is the main identity of the TPLF clique, the deputy administrator stated that some members of the criminal faction arrested whilst committing rape wearing ENDF and Eritrean Army uniforms.
The clique distributed uniforms of the ENDF and Eritrean Army for sexual offenders so as to harm the reputation of the disciplined Ethiopian Army.
Also, residents gave their testimony about inmates released by TPLF committed the rape.
"There is a testament that the ENDF is working day and night to bring back people of Tigray to their normal lives and the interim admiration has been working with the police force to crush the criminal clique and restore peace and order in the state," he noted.” Facttell ( talk) 02:23, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of War crimes in the Tigray War's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "auto1":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 07:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Requesting that new information be added to this page about a September 2022 UN investigation.
[1]
[2]
[3]
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
XTheBedrockX ( talk) 18:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
per my edit description:
"removed the claim about cluster bombing for now. I've searched around, and this person genuinely seems to be the only one claiming this, and no other reliable news or human rights orgs seem to mention this. Based in this, it's hard to judge the veracity of it." XTheBedrockX ( talk) 21:45, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The new article Tigray Genocide appears to be a shorter duplicate of this article. I propose that it be merged into this one 2A00:23EE:1478:6AAC:D41C:52FF:FE2C:4707 ( talk) 06:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
War crimes in the Tigray War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the
Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
|
@
MfactDr: We
currently have (without links) In November 2020, Genocide Watch upgraded its alert status for Ethiopia as a whole to the ninth stage of genocide, extermination, referring to the 2020 Oromo schoolyard massacre, Casualties of the Tigray War,2020 Ethiopia bus attack and Metekel massacre and listing affected groups as the Amhara, Tigrayans, Oromo, Gedeo, Gumuz, Agaw and qemant[16]
.
The Genocide Watch public announcement mentions:
Genocide Watch is updating its Genocide Emergency Alert due to this war.
So I think the current edit is reasonably compatible with the source and only needs copyediting, but if people want to discuss it more, here's there's space to do so... Boud ( talk) 00:32, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Genocide watch go beyond reporting massacre on one side report and even recommend change constitution of the country to stop secession of regional state of federation.its up to people of the country whether stay together or apart. there are many massacres in past namely irreecha massacre, anuak genocide so more. I am really sad what happened to this country not able to accommodate each other in whole history the country. in 2018 thing expected to change, however getting worse. its so unfortunate. any way thanks for contributing MfactDr ( talk) 01:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Should not parts of the "war crimes" in Tigray be split over to another page, covering crimes against humanity towards Tigrayans?
Reasoning 1:
War crimes solely happens in times of war, while crimes against humanity are not dependent on warfare in itself. If reaching a severe enough level, war crimes might constitute crimes against humanity. For Tigray, such a level has probably been met, so that it should ble split up.
Reasoning 2: Much points towards that the crimes against humanity committed by Ethiopia and it's allied Amhara militia and Eritrea, are not side-effects of a civil war, but rather the main objective.
For Tigray, several sources point towards that the ethnic cleansing, massacres and destructions of means of existence, was pre-planned and started before the war breaking out on the 3rd of November 2020. In other words, they don't happens as war crimes as a side-effect of war, but it's the objective of the "war" itself.
Some sources:
1. Ethiopia and Amhara militia broadcasting a planned genocide on the Tigrayans, on Ethiopian state TV already in October 2020:
https://mobile.twitter.com/GebrekirstosG/status/1364983791241019392
This planned genocide neccetitated a war, but it should not be hidden under a "war crimes"-title. IMO this looks like Rwanda in 1994: Took a long time to realize that the Rwandan genocide was not a war fueling massacres, but instead a genocide under the disguise of labeling it first a "rebellion" from the victims, and then an armed conflict. The genocide-stoppers RPF was named "rebels", while the government carrying out the genocide was describes as participating in counter-insurgency and a civil war.
2. Martin Plaut describing that before Ethiopia's claimed "trigger" for the war on Tigray,
"there had already been some fighting in Western Tigray by then between Amhara Special Forces and Tigrean troops":
3. The Week: A witness describing that the genocide started well before the outbreak of the "war" on Tigray:
"H.A. also confirms what some outside observers have suspected, namely that in Ethiopia there was violence well before November, when reports first emerged of a government-forced blackout following a canceled election. In the countryside, he said, militias were stealing food and burning crops in October. Women were raped, children were murdered. At a farm owned by one of his relations, all but one of the farmhands were killed; at a looted factory owned by a business associate, no one survived. Ethiopian military personnel claimed that nothing could be done".
https://theweek.com/articles-amp/969219/eyewitness-account-atrocities-tigray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.212.72.232 ( talk) 16:05, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
TPLF started the war and is involved in massacring civilians in Amhara and Tigray. Here is what was stated by ENDF in November prior to the alleged Axum massacre: “We have received inside information that by recording this acts, TPLF is planning to falsely accuse the Ethiopian Army for killing civilians,” Major General Mohammed Tessema, head of ENDF Indoctrination told the state broadcaster – ETV last night. He indicated that the TPLF is planning to undertake a genocide like “it did recently at Maykadra”.
Here are statements by TPLF leader Debretsion on the day of the alleged Axum massacre: Debretsion states Axum retaken. https://www.trtworld.com/africa/tigray-forces-claim-downing-ethiopian-military-plane-retaking-axum-town-41909/amp
History of statements by Ethiopian government this can corroborated with media releases at those times https://mobile.twitter.com/SOEFactCheck/status/1330897185202909187?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1330897185202909187%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnewbusinessethiopia.com%2Fpolitics%2Ftplf-to-target-civilians-using-eritrean-ethiopian-army-uniforms%2F
If TPLF was in control of Axum during the massacre and they are wearing Eritrean uniforms, then by logic any massacre that happened was done by TPLF soldiers in Eritrean uniforms.
Statement by Ethiopian government MoFA:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mfaethiopia/status/1365293011882696710 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Facttell ( talk • contribs) 19:19, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Here are TPLF militia caught in Eritrean uniforms:
Tplf militia murdering raping Eritrean refugees in Mai. Afi camp: https://mobile.twitter.com/tesfanews/status/1356781796340367362
Tplf militia leader and his troops arrested in Sudanese refugee camp where Amnesty International interviewed his troops hiding as refugees as witnesses in the Axum massacre of which they were involved in:
https://www.ena.et/en/?p=19794
Facttell (
talk) 18:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.ezega.com/News/NewsDetails/8252/TPLF-Took-More-Than-10000-Prisoners-from-Abandoned-Towns-Ethiopian-Military Facttell ( talk) 01:38, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
10,000 Tigrayan criminals released by TPLF at the beginning of Conflict
https://allafrica.com/stories/202102260384.html
“ Noting that conspiracy politics is the main identity of the TPLF clique, the deputy administrator stated that some members of the criminal faction arrested whilst committing rape wearing ENDF and Eritrean Army uniforms.
The clique distributed uniforms of the ENDF and Eritrean Army for sexual offenders so as to harm the reputation of the disciplined Ethiopian Army.
Also, residents gave their testimony about inmates released by TPLF committed the rape.
"There is a testament that the ENDF is working day and night to bring back people of Tigray to their normal lives and the interim admiration has been working with the police force to crush the criminal clique and restore peace and order in the state," he noted.” Facttell ( talk) 02:23, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of War crimes in the Tigray War's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "auto1":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 07:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Requesting that new information be added to this page about a September 2022 UN investigation.
[1]
[2]
[3]
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
XTheBedrockX ( talk) 18:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
per my edit description:
"removed the claim about cluster bombing for now. I've searched around, and this person genuinely seems to be the only one claiming this, and no other reliable news or human rights orgs seem to mention this. Based in this, it's hard to judge the veracity of it." XTheBedrockX ( talk) 21:45, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The new article Tigray Genocide appears to be a shorter duplicate of this article. I propose that it be merged into this one 2A00:23EE:1478:6AAC:D41C:52FF:FE2C:4707 ( talk) 06:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)