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I'm not sure how relevant this is, as it's already A-class, a judgement I largely agree with. However, there a
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of December 14, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be
resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far.
This article fails 1. a), b), c), d), 2. a), 3. a), & 4. a), of WP:WIAGA.
For example, per WP:LEAD, the introduction is way too lengthy. (See World War II for a better approach).
Statements such as "That city held out for a while", and "Nabis therefore betrayed his alliance" are not phrased with an encyclopedic frame of language, and need re-phrasing.
The range of references is way too low. Consider using other sources for a more balanced perpective.
Other sections are too lengthy as one large section, and need sub-sections.
Consider visiting Wikipedia:Peer review for more ideas and in-depth/high quality feedback on this article. Hope that helps, Jhamez84 15:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
There is clearly strong opinion about this - which I find surprising. Perhaps I should clarify a little more:
I'm very much willing to help with any of these issues - just contact me at any time. Whilst I was strict with reviewing this article, there are none-the-less small but outstanding issues which need to be confronted before this article is ready. I trust that helps, Jhamez84 00:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
A interesting and fair point, though this does not (directly) form part of (or is not clear enough on) WP:WIAGA. However, it is the lead that contains the most objectionable statements, and thus perhaps should be ammended/reworded more to reflect the referenced material in the main article. Jhamez84 02:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
(copied from FAC page) T.R.S. Broughton, Magistrates of the Roman Republic, vol. 1, p. 341 lists the sources for Flamininus' proconsulship in 195 as: SIG 592; Liv. 34.22-41; Plut. Flam. 13.1-3; Justin. 31.3.1; Eutrop. 4.2; Auct. Vir. Ill. 51; Oros. 4. 20.2; Zon. 9.18. I think you have to add at least the Plutarch and SIG (= Sylloge Inscriptionum Graecarum). The Gruen reference above will be helpful with the context that Raymond Palmer is asking for. Semperf 01:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Ernst Baltrusch writes in Sparta 3-406-41883-X (a series of scholarly works in German) that Nabis is credited for his social reforms. I couldn't find out what these reforms were, but it seems they were connected to military strength and reducing social unrest(that at this time heavily affected Greece). Furthermore he claims that Nabis officially used the ancient title of Spartan kings and not tyrant on his coins, while in scholarly works he is mentioned with that title. Wandalstouring 12:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC) (see my talk page)
Well written: The article needs a thorough copy-edit for spelling and grammar.
Factually accurate and verifiable: Passed
Broad in its coverage: Passed
Has Neutral Point of View: Passed
Stable: Passed
Pictures: Passed
This is a good article in terms of content, but has a lot of spelling mistakes, as well as some grammar mistakes. These need to be sorted out before it can be GA. Druworos 15:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Try an NPOV approach on Nabis reforms and be more specific on who makes what statement (unreasonably high). Show reforms with more background on the political situation, highlight the rivalry between Argos and Sparta if you explicitly mention Argos rule. Wandalstouring 19:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Megapolis redirects to Megacity and there it talks about big cities with over 10 million inhabitants so what is the Megapolis in this context, especially since you refer to it as the Megapolis. Wandalstouring 20:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Plautus#Historical_Context contains some secondary sources on the time and Rome. Wandalstouring 02:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I noticed the article specifies the battle name in greek "Greek:Λακωνικός Πόλεμος", can the word "greek" be wikilinked to the appropriate language? I would do it myself but there appears to be four variants of the Greek language. Thanks. — Tutmosis 18:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The article still has some language issues that must be worked out before it can pass GA. Druworos 21:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Whatever the language issues are, they didn't matter, as in a 5 to 1 decision with not a single person actually voting delist in the articles Good Article review discussion, this is now a Good Article. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 13. Homestarmy 23:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The first map is a great map--but for the wrong date, since it shows the standing of various powers in 200 BC, on the eve of the Second Macedonian War. What we need is one for 195 BC, with Macedonia beaten back. If we can't get one like that, I think a simple line map would do, but one that includes all the places named in the article: Argos, Sparta, Laconia, Gytheum, etc. Semperf 22:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to find a map showing Greece durin 195 BC however I have had no luck. The closest I have found are 200 BC and 188 BC. From my research on the time period the all the nations were the same during 195 BC as they were at 200 BC except for Macedon which had had Thessaly removed from it and had become independent as well as the Cyclades islands, Euboea and Caria which had been granted to Rhodes. Kyriakos 22:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I object the removal of free Laconians. that is the founding of a state. Deleting this declassifies for FA for lack of broad coverage. Wandalstouring 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Wandal. I will quote from Greenhalgh and Eliopoulos: "...while his fleet blocka Gythium, freed it from Spartan control and made it the head of a league of free cities...". Kyriakos 23:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The union began in 195 BC when Flaminius founded it but it wasn't until 21 BC when Augustus officially recognized it. And they say that the origon of the Union was 195 BC. Kyriakos 23:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
So there are some of my other sources. Kyriakos 00:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
And what help does this provide for your claims? Wandalstouring 10:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
saying that the only reason for the war was liberating Argos is close to lying. Rhodos, Pergamon, Macedonia and Rome were happy if someone didn't rule the whole Peloponnese and thus Achea and Sparta were busy there. What bothered all of them were the bases of the Cretan pirates. Mind to implement the difference between reasons and casus belli. For example Alexander the Great's casus belli was revenge for the Persian invasion of Greece(Macedonia had been a Persian ally), nuff about silver, beautiful women and ruling the world. Wandalstouring 17:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the maps as we discussed above. Semperf 20:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I like the idea of external images generally, but am not sure that these ones are especially helpful to this article. While there were wars in which the differnce between Roman style of warfare vs. the Macedonian phalanx was important, in this warfare the important struggles seem to have been sieges. Semperf 20:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Um, could we please stop with the back-and-forth moves? The original move was not so outlandish that it had to be reverted immediately.
For what it's worth, I think Miskin is correct in his assertion that the name "Laconian War" is the (more) commonly used one, at least in English-language historiography; I only found a single paper that uses "Roman-Spartan War". Kirill Lokshin 02:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In Greek it is called, Λακωνικός Πόλεμος meaning Laconian War. Kyriakos 03:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Inventing names? This is pretty much the definition of original research. Look, WP:NAME is a policy, meaning non-negotiable, you don't really have a choice on that. "Roman-Spartan" is definitely not the most popular, if at all an existing name for the conflict. Move it back please. Miskin 04:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Aldux the FA status doesn't lock an article, in fact it's an extra reason to hurry up with the move. The current title gives zero results in google books and scholars, this is far beyond editor consensus. Miskin 04:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"Laconian War" gets 16 results in books, meaning that at least 16 scholars have been using it. 16 > 0, simple maths, rename to "Laconian war". This is how I got my preferred name semper fictilis, I would advise you to do the same. This isn't a very common name even, but for now it's the commonest. Judging by the topic's low popularity this is probably a consensus figure. Miskin 04:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"What the majority of the english speakers would most easily recognise" does not mean that we should invent names that in our opinion offer the best description. It means that we should be using the most popular existing names. Miskin 04:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
All but one or two - true - but notice also that that the translator's name is different. This implies that at least those 10-16 scholars have accepted Artistotle's and Livy's terminology. So it does count as a result. Otherwise we'll be looking at "War with Nabis" or something along those lines like you suggested earlier. In any case the current name is purely invented and has to be renamed. Miskin 04:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
How widely do (Greek?) sources use the term? If it's just a choice between two wars, it may be sufficient to put a dablink ("This article is about the Roman-Spartan war in 195 BC. For the other conflict sometimes called the Laconian War, see Peloponnesian War.") at the top and avoid shuffling pages around. Kirill Lokshin 04:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
If we conclude that the event isn't generally given a name, then the article should be merged elsewhere. In any case we can't afford to stay with original research. Even a poorly supported name like "Lakonian War" or even "Nabis War" would do it. If you ask me both "Spartan-Roman war" and "Laconian war" offer a bad description. This wasn't a war between Rome and Sparta, nor it was more "Laconian" than any of Sparta's previous wars. But this is besides the point. Miskin 05:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
My suggestion is to rename temporarily to 'Laconian War' which at least exists in Greco-Roman sources and their english translations. Also the "Roman-Spartan war" name should be completely dropped, it appears to have been a wikipedian's invention. One result isn't enough, even a string like "Spartan-Persian" or any similar random combination will have some results, without meeting any consensus of course. I don't think a dablink is necessary, I've never heard of the Peloponnesian War being called "Laconian War". Miskin 05:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"Laconum bellum" does not mean "Laconian war", but "war with the Laconians" (lit. "of the Laconians"). "Laconian war" would be bellum Laconicum. So, no, I don't think that Laconian war has much in its favour. If you can find some modern sources in English showing that this is the standard way of referring to it, I'm willing to be convinced. Until then, I say leave it as it is. semper fictilis 05:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't find the direct-translation from Latin argument much relevant. After all Imperium Romanorum doesn't translate to 'Roman Empire' either. And the very fact that translators use 'Laconian war', means that it is too an existing connotation in english, whereas 'Spartan-Roman' is not. I'm also in favour of the variant 'War against Nabis'. Miskin 13:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Trying to interpret Livy would fall under original research. We have to consider the English translations of Livy and Pausanias which use "Laconian War". I'm not insisting that this is the best name, but it is definitely better than the current one. But I don't understand why do you keep on suggesting names that don't exist? We can't use 'Spartan-Roman' because it has but one mention, where it's most likely not given as a name for the conflict. I don't think this is a matter of consensus, the article needs to be temporarily moved to a non-OR title such as "Laconian War". Later it will be decided what name is best to describe it. Miskin 17:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
My guess is that you're a new editor, otherwise wikipedia's policy description is seriously flawed. If "consensus" meant supplanting policies like wp:name then I don't see why would we need to have other policies in the first place. We'd base every decision on wp:consensus. The current name is clearly a violation of a non-negotiable policy and it has to be moved. You may be favourable to original research but I'm not. I'm going to refer to other people to support me on the quick move, otherwise it will never be sorted out. Miskin 17:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to ask why people are using Arisotle in this discuss. This was was over a hindered years after his death and the Laconian war he was talking about was most probably the Peloponnesian War. As for Pausanias the war of 272 he was talking about is when Phyrrus of Epirus invaded Laconia.
semper fictilis 17:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't see how the Roman-Spartan name is supported. "Spartan war" is closer to "Laconian war" as Sparta and Laconia are often used interchangeably. Are you suggesting "Spartan war"?
Miskin
17:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What does everyone think about a straw poll to decide the name. We can have the preposed names and everyonr votes for which one they want and give a reason why/ What do you all think? Kyriakos 21:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In any case there seems to be a clear consensus, how come the move hasn't been performed yet? Miskin 16:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there only one person in the article with a name close to Philopoemen? There are three names in the article as Philopoemen, Philopoemon, and Philiopoemon, and I don't want to change them all to the working wikilink name of Philopoemen, if they somehow refer to different people or groups. Been there, done that. Michael Devore 04:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"All consequent Spartan attempts to recover the losses..." should say "subsequent". "Consequent" implies a more direct cause-and-effect. I'd edit it myself but I'm reluctant to jump into an FA without an edit history on the page. (user CouldOughta, not logged in). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.203.48 ( talk) 03:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I can see this has been the topic of discussion in the past, but the conclusion of those discussions and the title that now stares out at everyone on today's main page both seem a little odd. As acknowledged, "War against Nabis" is not a formal title found anywhere in reliable sources for this conflict – yet it is not only used as the title but is capitalised in text as if it were a proper name (and the article for Nabis himself refers to the "eponymous" war, again as if this was a formal name or title for it). Obviously, without a common or clear formal name for this war, we are left with working out a more descriptive title; but in that case we should have something more generally and genuinely descriptive, such as "Roman-Spartan War" (which does generate a few search results), which, per WP:TITLE, will be broadly clear to and understandable by the average informed reader. Not only is the current title at first glance and in itself utterly unclear (who or what is Nabis?) but the lead doesn't help much as it doesn't get round to identifying Nabis until the last paragraph. The only justification for it seems to be that the phrase "war against Nabis" crops up in quite a few sources, but this is only in the context of very general prose text such as "the Romans were debating whether to wage war against Nabis", "in their war against Nabis" etc etc. N-HH talk/ edits 11:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The two external images linked in the Preparations section lead to dead links. I don't know enough about the subject to recommend replacement images, but equivalent images, or the same images on alternate sites, should be linked. --Animalparty-- ( talk) 21:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
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This article is heavily sourced to the ancient sources of (especially) Livy and Polybius and Smith's very dated 19th-century source. The reliance on these ancient and dated sources runs afoul of the quality sourcing requirements of the modern FA criteria. Hog Farm Talk 18:04, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
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I'm not sure how relevant this is, as it's already A-class, a judgement I largely agree with. However, there a
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of December 14, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be
resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far.
This article fails 1. a), b), c), d), 2. a), 3. a), & 4. a), of WP:WIAGA.
For example, per WP:LEAD, the introduction is way too lengthy. (See World War II for a better approach).
Statements such as "That city held out for a while", and "Nabis therefore betrayed his alliance" are not phrased with an encyclopedic frame of language, and need re-phrasing.
The range of references is way too low. Consider using other sources for a more balanced perpective.
Other sections are too lengthy as one large section, and need sub-sections.
Consider visiting Wikipedia:Peer review for more ideas and in-depth/high quality feedback on this article. Hope that helps, Jhamez84 15:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
There is clearly strong opinion about this - which I find surprising. Perhaps I should clarify a little more:
I'm very much willing to help with any of these issues - just contact me at any time. Whilst I was strict with reviewing this article, there are none-the-less small but outstanding issues which need to be confronted before this article is ready. I trust that helps, Jhamez84 00:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
A interesting and fair point, though this does not (directly) form part of (or is not clear enough on) WP:WIAGA. However, it is the lead that contains the most objectionable statements, and thus perhaps should be ammended/reworded more to reflect the referenced material in the main article. Jhamez84 02:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
(copied from FAC page) T.R.S. Broughton, Magistrates of the Roman Republic, vol. 1, p. 341 lists the sources for Flamininus' proconsulship in 195 as: SIG 592; Liv. 34.22-41; Plut. Flam. 13.1-3; Justin. 31.3.1; Eutrop. 4.2; Auct. Vir. Ill. 51; Oros. 4. 20.2; Zon. 9.18. I think you have to add at least the Plutarch and SIG (= Sylloge Inscriptionum Graecarum). The Gruen reference above will be helpful with the context that Raymond Palmer is asking for. Semperf 01:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Ernst Baltrusch writes in Sparta 3-406-41883-X (a series of scholarly works in German) that Nabis is credited for his social reforms. I couldn't find out what these reforms were, but it seems they were connected to military strength and reducing social unrest(that at this time heavily affected Greece). Furthermore he claims that Nabis officially used the ancient title of Spartan kings and not tyrant on his coins, while in scholarly works he is mentioned with that title. Wandalstouring 12:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC) (see my talk page)
Well written: The article needs a thorough copy-edit for spelling and grammar.
Factually accurate and verifiable: Passed
Broad in its coverage: Passed
Has Neutral Point of View: Passed
Stable: Passed
Pictures: Passed
This is a good article in terms of content, but has a lot of spelling mistakes, as well as some grammar mistakes. These need to be sorted out before it can be GA. Druworos 15:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Try an NPOV approach on Nabis reforms and be more specific on who makes what statement (unreasonably high). Show reforms with more background on the political situation, highlight the rivalry between Argos and Sparta if you explicitly mention Argos rule. Wandalstouring 19:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Megapolis redirects to Megacity and there it talks about big cities with over 10 million inhabitants so what is the Megapolis in this context, especially since you refer to it as the Megapolis. Wandalstouring 20:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Plautus#Historical_Context contains some secondary sources on the time and Rome. Wandalstouring 02:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I noticed the article specifies the battle name in greek "Greek:Λακωνικός Πόλεμος", can the word "greek" be wikilinked to the appropriate language? I would do it myself but there appears to be four variants of the Greek language. Thanks. — Tutmosis 18:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The article still has some language issues that must be worked out before it can pass GA. Druworos 21:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Whatever the language issues are, they didn't matter, as in a 5 to 1 decision with not a single person actually voting delist in the articles Good Article review discussion, this is now a Good Article. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 13. Homestarmy 23:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The first map is a great map--but for the wrong date, since it shows the standing of various powers in 200 BC, on the eve of the Second Macedonian War. What we need is one for 195 BC, with Macedonia beaten back. If we can't get one like that, I think a simple line map would do, but one that includes all the places named in the article: Argos, Sparta, Laconia, Gytheum, etc. Semperf 22:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to find a map showing Greece durin 195 BC however I have had no luck. The closest I have found are 200 BC and 188 BC. From my research on the time period the all the nations were the same during 195 BC as they were at 200 BC except for Macedon which had had Thessaly removed from it and had become independent as well as the Cyclades islands, Euboea and Caria which had been granted to Rhodes. Kyriakos 22:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I object the removal of free Laconians. that is the founding of a state. Deleting this declassifies for FA for lack of broad coverage. Wandalstouring 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Wandal. I will quote from Greenhalgh and Eliopoulos: "...while his fleet blocka Gythium, freed it from Spartan control and made it the head of a league of free cities...". Kyriakos 23:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The union began in 195 BC when Flaminius founded it but it wasn't until 21 BC when Augustus officially recognized it. And they say that the origon of the Union was 195 BC. Kyriakos 23:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
So there are some of my other sources. Kyriakos 00:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
And what help does this provide for your claims? Wandalstouring 10:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
saying that the only reason for the war was liberating Argos is close to lying. Rhodos, Pergamon, Macedonia and Rome were happy if someone didn't rule the whole Peloponnese and thus Achea and Sparta were busy there. What bothered all of them were the bases of the Cretan pirates. Mind to implement the difference between reasons and casus belli. For example Alexander the Great's casus belli was revenge for the Persian invasion of Greece(Macedonia had been a Persian ally), nuff about silver, beautiful women and ruling the world. Wandalstouring 17:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the maps as we discussed above. Semperf 20:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I like the idea of external images generally, but am not sure that these ones are especially helpful to this article. While there were wars in which the differnce between Roman style of warfare vs. the Macedonian phalanx was important, in this warfare the important struggles seem to have been sieges. Semperf 20:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Um, could we please stop with the back-and-forth moves? The original move was not so outlandish that it had to be reverted immediately.
For what it's worth, I think Miskin is correct in his assertion that the name "Laconian War" is the (more) commonly used one, at least in English-language historiography; I only found a single paper that uses "Roman-Spartan War". Kirill Lokshin 02:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In Greek it is called, Λακωνικός Πόλεμος meaning Laconian War. Kyriakos 03:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Inventing names? This is pretty much the definition of original research. Look, WP:NAME is a policy, meaning non-negotiable, you don't really have a choice on that. "Roman-Spartan" is definitely not the most popular, if at all an existing name for the conflict. Move it back please. Miskin 04:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Aldux the FA status doesn't lock an article, in fact it's an extra reason to hurry up with the move. The current title gives zero results in google books and scholars, this is far beyond editor consensus. Miskin 04:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"Laconian War" gets 16 results in books, meaning that at least 16 scholars have been using it. 16 > 0, simple maths, rename to "Laconian war". This is how I got my preferred name semper fictilis, I would advise you to do the same. This isn't a very common name even, but for now it's the commonest. Judging by the topic's low popularity this is probably a consensus figure. Miskin 04:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"What the majority of the english speakers would most easily recognise" does not mean that we should invent names that in our opinion offer the best description. It means that we should be using the most popular existing names. Miskin 04:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
All but one or two - true - but notice also that that the translator's name is different. This implies that at least those 10-16 scholars have accepted Artistotle's and Livy's terminology. So it does count as a result. Otherwise we'll be looking at "War with Nabis" or something along those lines like you suggested earlier. In any case the current name is purely invented and has to be renamed. Miskin 04:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
How widely do (Greek?) sources use the term? If it's just a choice between two wars, it may be sufficient to put a dablink ("This article is about the Roman-Spartan war in 195 BC. For the other conflict sometimes called the Laconian War, see Peloponnesian War.") at the top and avoid shuffling pages around. Kirill Lokshin 04:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
If we conclude that the event isn't generally given a name, then the article should be merged elsewhere. In any case we can't afford to stay with original research. Even a poorly supported name like "Lakonian War" or even "Nabis War" would do it. If you ask me both "Spartan-Roman war" and "Laconian war" offer a bad description. This wasn't a war between Rome and Sparta, nor it was more "Laconian" than any of Sparta's previous wars. But this is besides the point. Miskin 05:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
My suggestion is to rename temporarily to 'Laconian War' which at least exists in Greco-Roman sources and their english translations. Also the "Roman-Spartan war" name should be completely dropped, it appears to have been a wikipedian's invention. One result isn't enough, even a string like "Spartan-Persian" or any similar random combination will have some results, without meeting any consensus of course. I don't think a dablink is necessary, I've never heard of the Peloponnesian War being called "Laconian War". Miskin 05:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
"Laconum bellum" does not mean "Laconian war", but "war with the Laconians" (lit. "of the Laconians"). "Laconian war" would be bellum Laconicum. So, no, I don't think that Laconian war has much in its favour. If you can find some modern sources in English showing that this is the standard way of referring to it, I'm willing to be convinced. Until then, I say leave it as it is. semper fictilis 05:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't find the direct-translation from Latin argument much relevant. After all Imperium Romanorum doesn't translate to 'Roman Empire' either. And the very fact that translators use 'Laconian war', means that it is too an existing connotation in english, whereas 'Spartan-Roman' is not. I'm also in favour of the variant 'War against Nabis'. Miskin 13:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Trying to interpret Livy would fall under original research. We have to consider the English translations of Livy and Pausanias which use "Laconian War". I'm not insisting that this is the best name, but it is definitely better than the current one. But I don't understand why do you keep on suggesting names that don't exist? We can't use 'Spartan-Roman' because it has but one mention, where it's most likely not given as a name for the conflict. I don't think this is a matter of consensus, the article needs to be temporarily moved to a non-OR title such as "Laconian War". Later it will be decided what name is best to describe it. Miskin 17:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
My guess is that you're a new editor, otherwise wikipedia's policy description is seriously flawed. If "consensus" meant supplanting policies like wp:name then I don't see why would we need to have other policies in the first place. We'd base every decision on wp:consensus. The current name is clearly a violation of a non-negotiable policy and it has to be moved. You may be favourable to original research but I'm not. I'm going to refer to other people to support me on the quick move, otherwise it will never be sorted out. Miskin 17:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to ask why people are using Arisotle in this discuss. This was was over a hindered years after his death and the Laconian war he was talking about was most probably the Peloponnesian War. As for Pausanias the war of 272 he was talking about is when Phyrrus of Epirus invaded Laconia.
semper fictilis 17:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't see how the Roman-Spartan name is supported. "Spartan war" is closer to "Laconian war" as Sparta and Laconia are often used interchangeably. Are you suggesting "Spartan war"?
Miskin
17:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What does everyone think about a straw poll to decide the name. We can have the preposed names and everyonr votes for which one they want and give a reason why/ What do you all think? Kyriakos 21:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In any case there seems to be a clear consensus, how come the move hasn't been performed yet? Miskin 16:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there only one person in the article with a name close to Philopoemen? There are three names in the article as Philopoemen, Philopoemon, and Philiopoemon, and I don't want to change them all to the working wikilink name of Philopoemen, if they somehow refer to different people or groups. Been there, done that. Michael Devore 04:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"All consequent Spartan attempts to recover the losses..." should say "subsequent". "Consequent" implies a more direct cause-and-effect. I'd edit it myself but I'm reluctant to jump into an FA without an edit history on the page. (user CouldOughta, not logged in). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.203.48 ( talk) 03:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I can see this has been the topic of discussion in the past, but the conclusion of those discussions and the title that now stares out at everyone on today's main page both seem a little odd. As acknowledged, "War against Nabis" is not a formal title found anywhere in reliable sources for this conflict – yet it is not only used as the title but is capitalised in text as if it were a proper name (and the article for Nabis himself refers to the "eponymous" war, again as if this was a formal name or title for it). Obviously, without a common or clear formal name for this war, we are left with working out a more descriptive title; but in that case we should have something more generally and genuinely descriptive, such as "Roman-Spartan War" (which does generate a few search results), which, per WP:TITLE, will be broadly clear to and understandable by the average informed reader. Not only is the current title at first glance and in itself utterly unclear (who or what is Nabis?) but the lead doesn't help much as it doesn't get round to identifying Nabis until the last paragraph. The only justification for it seems to be that the phrase "war against Nabis" crops up in quite a few sources, but this is only in the context of very general prose text such as "the Romans were debating whether to wage war against Nabis", "in their war against Nabis" etc etc. N-HH talk/ edits 11:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The two external images linked in the Preparations section lead to dead links. I don't know enough about the subject to recommend replacement images, but equivalent images, or the same images on alternate sites, should be linked. --Animalparty-- ( talk) 21:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
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This article is heavily sourced to the ancient sources of (especially) Livy and Polybius and Smith's very dated 19th-century source. The reliance on these ancient and dated sources runs afoul of the quality sourcing requirements of the modern FA criteria. Hog Farm Talk 18:04, 22 February 2021 (UTC)