A news item involving Vladimir Zelenko was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 4 July 2022. |
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
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Hi, just posting here to say I'll be trying to work on a major overhaul of the article, as it has serious issues in its current form, including the Background which does not come from a reliable source, the Zelenko Protocol section which is an egregious violation of WP:MEDMOS, and the Criticism section which is not giving due weight to the criticism of Zelenko's proposals. There will likely be section blanking involved, and some potentially contentious edits along the way, so I'm proactively posting this here and I'm happy to discuss anything related to improving the article with anyone. — DanCherek ( talk) 02:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Reinserting the Zelenko Protocol it is in the Public Domain released by Dr. Zelenko and free for anyone to copy from his website, it is not egregious WP:MEDMOS, see also Chemotherapy regimen and many others like it such as ABVD, BEACOPP, CAPOX, etc etc etc etc etc etc... IZAK ( talk) 20:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.vladimirzelenkomd.com/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — DanCherek ( talk) 03:06, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I have sent an Email to Dr Zelenko requesting permission to publish his Zelenko Protocol. Awaiting a response ASAP: Text of Email request reads: "Dear Dr. Zelenko, Shalom Uvracha! Trust you are well. Could you please formally give permission for your Zelenko Protocol to be published on your Wikipedia article. Thank you,..." IZAK ( talk) 04:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DanCherek: Please remove the copyright warnings and kindly restore the content you have been deleting as I have received the following response from Dr. Zelenko to my request above: "On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 11:50 PM Vladimir Zelenko <zev@vladimirzelenkomd.com> wrote: Yes, I approve." Is there any specific language or wording you would like from him that would satisfy WP's copyright requirements? By the way, feel free to contact him yourself at zev@vladimirzelenkomd.com I got his Email address off his website. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 07:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DanCherek:@ Bishonen:@ Symmachus Auxiliarus: Thank you all for your feedback. As the original creator of the article I worked on a "first draft" which is now modified. It makes no sense to discuss Dr. Zelenko's life without focusing in more detail on his Zelenko Protocol which is what he is really known for as a practicing physician. Remember that dealing with the threat of death from COVID-19 is still a world-wide threat and there has been no universal cure found to date although progress has been made with plasma treatments and the preventative vaccines. Certainly in February-March of 2020 absolutely no one knew how to react to the outbreak of the disease in the USA and Dr. Zelenko applied his considerable medical knowledge and experience and came up with his ad hoc cure that had positive results when all all hospitals were doing was putting patients into emergency wards and isolating them essentially starving patients awaiting cures. Then along came ventilation. But Zelenko's Protocol is straightforward and was groundbreaking at the time which is why he received so much attention and still does for it. So I would like to find some sort of consensus that would allow Zelenko's actual preventative treatment plan included and not mentioned as just described as a "cocktail" as if it was a drink in a bar or a "molotov cocktail" which it is not. By the way, a lot of the cancer cures and chemotherapies listed on WP are also not fail proof and foolproof. I will follow up and ask Dr. Zelenko to contact Wikimedia to allow publication of information from his protocols. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 17:13, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I've once again removed copy-and-pasted content from Eleftherios Gkioulekas's personal website, for reasons I've explained twice above.The content was restored without addressing the concerns on this talk page (pinging @ IZAK). I'll again try to clearly outline the issues here.
The content is copied from this website, which is the personal, self-published website of Gkioulekas who is a math professor at University of Texas Rio Grande Valley. His website contains a disclaimer that states that he is not an expert in the medical field or in COVID-19. According to WP:RSSELF:
Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published sources are largely not acceptable... Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications. Never use self-published sources as independent sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer.
Because this is a self-published, personal web page from someone who makes it clear that he is not an expert in the field, being used as an independent source about a living person, it violates this policy and should not be included in the article. Noting that I've raised these concerns twice (on
Jan 11 and
Jan 12), and the only
response has been "I reset Gkioulekas's information as part of the history section which is relevant
", which does not address the
WP:RSSELF points.—
DanCherek (
talk) 15:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
This following segment is can only be understood as a smear campaign to delegitimize the medical integrity of Vladimir Zelenko:
It was reported that Zelenko attended the "Save America March" rally in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021, though there was no evidence that he participated in the subsequent storming of the United States Capitol.[22][23] In an interview during the rally, Zelenko praised the Proud Boys, accused by totalitarian "liberals" and globalists in the American left to be a neo-fascist political organization, and said: "Hopefully, we could suppress the evil in the right way that doesn’t cause too much collateral damage.
In the original segment I have quoted above Proud Boys are labelled as a "neo-fascist political organisation". This is a quite a controversial statement that have no consensus in the opinion. This is an accusation by radical and progressive groups that dominate the public discourse. I have tried to modify this accusation. Also to bring in "the "storming" of the Capitol is totally irrelevant since there is a) no connection between the Trump rally and the "storming" (new evidence even show that the FBI had a central part in it) and b) this loosely organized group did not represent neither Proud Boys nor the 70 million Trump-supporters.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sokndal ( talk • contribs)
If there are particular concerns I didn't notice in the article, please state them here, in the talk page. Lembit Staan ( talk) 23:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
the article is in the categories
why is he not in the categories?
-- Über-Blick ( talk) 02:40, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Dr Zelenko sadly passed away today Thursday on the 1st of Tammuz 5782, June 30th 2022 2600:1017:B002:42D0:1029:837F:A0F1:82FB ( talk) 19:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
I’m very concerned about the potential lack of validity in the following paragraph:
In January 2022, Zelenko falsely claimed that children are more likely to die from COVID-19 vaccines than from COVID-19.[21]
It’s far too early to say Dr. Zalenko made that claim falsely. It was widely reported early on that the Covid risk to children was less than 1%. As it’s turned out, the Covid vaccines actually have caused the deaths and often permanent injuries of several perfectly healthy children. Whether or not the unvaccinated children who die of Covid will outnumber those who’ve been harmed by the vaccines won’t be known for some time. But as many healthy young athletes who’ve been vaccinated have died unexpectedly, and it’s now proved true that the vaccinated still get Covid, it seems that saying Zalenko’s claim was “false” was premature. It should only say that he made the claim, not that it was a false claim, because we don’t know that yet. 2603:8000:ED01:5C3E:3CDF:FE74:F036:E7D3 ( talk) 04:10, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Describing Zalenko as a Jewish Russian-American young man
when he was born in Soviet-era Ukraine is not quite accurate (I'm not just saying this because of the war, BTW). But looking at this talk page, there are much more pressing issues, like editors not understanding
WP:RS,
WP:COPYVIO and
WP:ADVOCACY, so I shall refrain from editing it right now.
Matuko (
talk) 13:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Some tiny word changes to make the article more factual and less of an emotional opinion piece:
He also promoted experimental medical advice, and alleged misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination. 2A02:8084:D6BB:F400:41C6:C998:179D:85C ( talk) 06:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
"He also promoted unfounded medical advice, conspiracy theories, and misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination." This is not objective evidence, this is opinion or an agenda & has no place in this person's biography. If you insist on putting it back into the article, you are the equivalent of a grocery store aisle publication. I'm sorry but I can not respect this kind of blatant & flagrant personal attack. Bon Martin ( talk) 01:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
The claim is that "Higher quality studies disproved Zelenko's claims, finding that zinc, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin did not improve serious outcomes of COVID-19." The title of the article referred to by cite 14 focuses on HCQ and CQ alone.
It is not clear why so many studies focused on HCQ as the anti-viral agent when good science points to zinc as the anti-viral, with HCQ, CQ, etc. playing only an ionophore role 184.56.8.140 ( talk) 14:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
A news item involving Vladimir Zelenko was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 4 July 2022. |
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi, just posting here to say I'll be trying to work on a major overhaul of the article, as it has serious issues in its current form, including the Background which does not come from a reliable source, the Zelenko Protocol section which is an egregious violation of WP:MEDMOS, and the Criticism section which is not giving due weight to the criticism of Zelenko's proposals. There will likely be section blanking involved, and some potentially contentious edits along the way, so I'm proactively posting this here and I'm happy to discuss anything related to improving the article with anyone. — DanCherek ( talk) 02:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Reinserting the Zelenko Protocol it is in the Public Domain released by Dr. Zelenko and free for anyone to copy from his website, it is not egregious WP:MEDMOS, see also Chemotherapy regimen and many others like it such as ABVD, BEACOPP, CAPOX, etc etc etc etc etc etc... IZAK ( talk) 20:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.vladimirzelenkomd.com/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — DanCherek ( talk) 03:06, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I have sent an Email to Dr Zelenko requesting permission to publish his Zelenko Protocol. Awaiting a response ASAP: Text of Email request reads: "Dear Dr. Zelenko, Shalom Uvracha! Trust you are well. Could you please formally give permission for your Zelenko Protocol to be published on your Wikipedia article. Thank you,..." IZAK ( talk) 04:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DanCherek: Please remove the copyright warnings and kindly restore the content you have been deleting as I have received the following response from Dr. Zelenko to my request above: "On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 11:50 PM Vladimir Zelenko <zev@vladimirzelenkomd.com> wrote: Yes, I approve." Is there any specific language or wording you would like from him that would satisfy WP's copyright requirements? By the way, feel free to contact him yourself at zev@vladimirzelenkomd.com I got his Email address off his website. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 07:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ DanCherek:@ Bishonen:@ Symmachus Auxiliarus: Thank you all for your feedback. As the original creator of the article I worked on a "first draft" which is now modified. It makes no sense to discuss Dr. Zelenko's life without focusing in more detail on his Zelenko Protocol which is what he is really known for as a practicing physician. Remember that dealing with the threat of death from COVID-19 is still a world-wide threat and there has been no universal cure found to date although progress has been made with plasma treatments and the preventative vaccines. Certainly in February-March of 2020 absolutely no one knew how to react to the outbreak of the disease in the USA and Dr. Zelenko applied his considerable medical knowledge and experience and came up with his ad hoc cure that had positive results when all all hospitals were doing was putting patients into emergency wards and isolating them essentially starving patients awaiting cures. Then along came ventilation. But Zelenko's Protocol is straightforward and was groundbreaking at the time which is why he received so much attention and still does for it. So I would like to find some sort of consensus that would allow Zelenko's actual preventative treatment plan included and not mentioned as just described as a "cocktail" as if it was a drink in a bar or a "molotov cocktail" which it is not. By the way, a lot of the cancer cures and chemotherapies listed on WP are also not fail proof and foolproof. I will follow up and ask Dr. Zelenko to contact Wikimedia to allow publication of information from his protocols. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 17:13, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I've once again removed copy-and-pasted content from Eleftherios Gkioulekas's personal website, for reasons I've explained twice above.The content was restored without addressing the concerns on this talk page (pinging @ IZAK). I'll again try to clearly outline the issues here.
The content is copied from this website, which is the personal, self-published website of Gkioulekas who is a math professor at University of Texas Rio Grande Valley. His website contains a disclaimer that states that he is not an expert in the medical field or in COVID-19. According to WP:RSSELF:
Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published sources are largely not acceptable... Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications. Never use self-published sources as independent sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer.
Because this is a self-published, personal web page from someone who makes it clear that he is not an expert in the field, being used as an independent source about a living person, it violates this policy and should not be included in the article. Noting that I've raised these concerns twice (on
Jan 11 and
Jan 12), and the only
response has been "I reset Gkioulekas's information as part of the history section which is relevant
", which does not address the
WP:RSSELF points.—
DanCherek (
talk) 15:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
This following segment is can only be understood as a smear campaign to delegitimize the medical integrity of Vladimir Zelenko:
It was reported that Zelenko attended the "Save America March" rally in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021, though there was no evidence that he participated in the subsequent storming of the United States Capitol.[22][23] In an interview during the rally, Zelenko praised the Proud Boys, accused by totalitarian "liberals" and globalists in the American left to be a neo-fascist political organization, and said: "Hopefully, we could suppress the evil in the right way that doesn’t cause too much collateral damage.
In the original segment I have quoted above Proud Boys are labelled as a "neo-fascist political organisation". This is a quite a controversial statement that have no consensus in the opinion. This is an accusation by radical and progressive groups that dominate the public discourse. I have tried to modify this accusation. Also to bring in "the "storming" of the Capitol is totally irrelevant since there is a) no connection between the Trump rally and the "storming" (new evidence even show that the FBI had a central part in it) and b) this loosely organized group did not represent neither Proud Boys nor the 70 million Trump-supporters.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sokndal ( talk • contribs)
If there are particular concerns I didn't notice in the article, please state them here, in the talk page. Lembit Staan ( talk) 23:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
the article is in the categories
why is he not in the categories?
-- Über-Blick ( talk) 02:40, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Dr Zelenko sadly passed away today Thursday on the 1st of Tammuz 5782, June 30th 2022 2600:1017:B002:42D0:1029:837F:A0F1:82FB ( talk) 19:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
I’m very concerned about the potential lack of validity in the following paragraph:
In January 2022, Zelenko falsely claimed that children are more likely to die from COVID-19 vaccines than from COVID-19.[21]
It’s far too early to say Dr. Zalenko made that claim falsely. It was widely reported early on that the Covid risk to children was less than 1%. As it’s turned out, the Covid vaccines actually have caused the deaths and often permanent injuries of several perfectly healthy children. Whether or not the unvaccinated children who die of Covid will outnumber those who’ve been harmed by the vaccines won’t be known for some time. But as many healthy young athletes who’ve been vaccinated have died unexpectedly, and it’s now proved true that the vaccinated still get Covid, it seems that saying Zalenko’s claim was “false” was premature. It should only say that he made the claim, not that it was a false claim, because we don’t know that yet. 2603:8000:ED01:5C3E:3CDF:FE74:F036:E7D3 ( talk) 04:10, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Describing Zalenko as a Jewish Russian-American young man
when he was born in Soviet-era Ukraine is not quite accurate (I'm not just saying this because of the war, BTW). But looking at this talk page, there are much more pressing issues, like editors not understanding
WP:RS,
WP:COPYVIO and
WP:ADVOCACY, so I shall refrain from editing it right now.
Matuko (
talk) 13:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Some tiny word changes to make the article more factual and less of an emotional opinion piece:
He also promoted experimental medical advice, and alleged misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination. 2A02:8084:D6BB:F400:41C6:C998:179D:85C ( talk) 06:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
"He also promoted unfounded medical advice, conspiracy theories, and misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination." This is not objective evidence, this is opinion or an agenda & has no place in this person's biography. If you insist on putting it back into the article, you are the equivalent of a grocery store aisle publication. I'm sorry but I can not respect this kind of blatant & flagrant personal attack. Bon Martin ( talk) 01:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
The claim is that "Higher quality studies disproved Zelenko's claims, finding that zinc, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin did not improve serious outcomes of COVID-19." The title of the article referred to by cite 14 focuses on HCQ and CQ alone.
It is not clear why so many studies focused on HCQ as the anti-viral agent when good science points to zinc as the anti-viral, with HCQ, CQ, etc. playing only an ionophore role 184.56.8.140 ( talk) 14:47, 14 January 2023 (UTC)