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Hovik, efforts to document Armenians in the Ottoman Empire are appreciated. However, you are unfortunately making grave errors. There is no such thing as a "vilayet of Kharpert". Vilayet is an Ottoman administrative term meaning province (derived from Arabic of course). The Ottoman name for Kharpert was Harput. This province was actually an eyalet until the 1860s, when it became a vilayet (part of a provincial restructuring programme). During this change, the administrative center was moved from Harput to Mezre, which was renamed Mamuretü'l-Aziz. There was no "vilayet of Kharpert" or "vilayet of Harput". It was the "vilayet of Mamuretü'l-Aziz" (properly, "Mamûretü'l-Âzîz vilâyeti"). I will change this article back to its old name once you have read this. Ordtoy ( talk) 11:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Can we get some opinions on this please? To clarify what I wrote, this article is discussing a province of the Ottoman Empire. The name of the province was Mamûretü'l-Âzîz, centered on Mezre/Harput. The latter's Armenian name is Kharpert, but while this is relevant information, it was not the name of the province. A few other articles by the same user have the same problem ( Vilayet of Sebastia and Massacres in Kharpert vilayet for example). Thank you, Ordtoy ( talk) 07:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the info box adds much to this article besides the map: "Life span?", "Enter start date" and "Enter end date" all appear in it. The population figures are also presented as fact whereas in the text it is made clear that there are extreme differences of opinion with regards to the provincial population. I think it needs to go or be replaced by something better. Ordtoy ( talk) 16:06, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I want to ask some questions about this edit and its edit summary: corrected name so it is standard everywhere in article and removed the word 'province' from the translation.
1. First of all, this is not translation but transliteration. Is there such standard everywhere ? Which guideline of Wikipedia was applied ?
Fujian 福建省
(省 means eyalet) we can see 省 even in the infobox.
East Azarbaijan Province استان آذربایجان شرقی
(Ostān means eyalet) we can see Ostān even in the infobox.
Damascus Governorate مُحافظة دمشق
(muḥāfaẓāt is a first-level administrative division) we can see muḥāfaẓāt even in the infobox.
So there is no such thing as standard, however you want it.
2. Which sources did you use to say "corrected name" ?
3. Common name in English books:
etc...
Takabeg ( talk) 04:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
We can get
Mamûretü'l-Azîz only 3 on google books. Moreover all of them are not English books but Turkish books as follows:
And if you want to prefer TDK's rule about düzeltme işareti, name must be changed as Mamuretülaziz. Today, in modern Turkish transliteration, we cannot use düzeltme işaretleri (â, î, û... ) limitedly. Takabeg ( talk) 06:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Artilces must be written in accordance with reliable sources, not to your personal preference and/or explanation. Takabeg ( talk) 06:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the düzeltme işareti.
2. This has everything to do with two transliteration questions:
You have arbitrarily decided which transliteration scheme is best, but you decision is not based on an understanding of Ottoman Turkish and how it is transliterated. It also is not based on frequency of occurrence in Google books, which is apparently very important to you. Note that searching for [1] (your way) gives you nine Turkish books. Searching for [2] (my way) gives you nine Turkish books... so what have you accomplished? Now the article name is different from the name used in the article. But if you insist that your way is better, I'm not going to sit here and fight you. Eventually someone else will come along and correct everything that you have done. Ordtoy ( talk) 13:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 05:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
As long as I can understand, Harput Vilayet is common name of thie vilayet in English.
Takabeg ( talk) 04:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 15:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Your "research" is, again, not relevant. You are searching for two different things: Harput and Mamûretü'l-Azîz are not the same thing. Ordtoy ( talk) 00:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 20:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC) GTBacchus( talk) 20:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Mamûretü'l-Azîz Vilayet →
Vilayet of Mamuret-ul-Aziz per
WP:COMMONNAME &
WP:ORIGINAL &
WP:USEENGLISH
-- Takabeg ( talk) 12:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mamuret-ul-Aziz vilayet article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help! The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
![]() | On 2 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Mamuret-ul-Aziz Vilayet to Mamuret-ul-Aziz vilayet. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Hovik, efforts to document Armenians in the Ottoman Empire are appreciated. However, you are unfortunately making grave errors. There is no such thing as a "vilayet of Kharpert". Vilayet is an Ottoman administrative term meaning province (derived from Arabic of course). The Ottoman name for Kharpert was Harput. This province was actually an eyalet until the 1860s, when it became a vilayet (part of a provincial restructuring programme). During this change, the administrative center was moved from Harput to Mezre, which was renamed Mamuretü'l-Aziz. There was no "vilayet of Kharpert" or "vilayet of Harput". It was the "vilayet of Mamuretü'l-Aziz" (properly, "Mamûretü'l-Âzîz vilâyeti"). I will change this article back to its old name once you have read this. Ordtoy ( talk) 11:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Can we get some opinions on this please? To clarify what I wrote, this article is discussing a province of the Ottoman Empire. The name of the province was Mamûretü'l-Âzîz, centered on Mezre/Harput. The latter's Armenian name is Kharpert, but while this is relevant information, it was not the name of the province. A few other articles by the same user have the same problem ( Vilayet of Sebastia and Massacres in Kharpert vilayet for example). Thank you, Ordtoy ( talk) 07:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the info box adds much to this article besides the map: "Life span?", "Enter start date" and "Enter end date" all appear in it. The population figures are also presented as fact whereas in the text it is made clear that there are extreme differences of opinion with regards to the provincial population. I think it needs to go or be replaced by something better. Ordtoy ( talk) 16:06, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I want to ask some questions about this edit and its edit summary: corrected name so it is standard everywhere in article and removed the word 'province' from the translation.
1. First of all, this is not translation but transliteration. Is there such standard everywhere ? Which guideline of Wikipedia was applied ?
Fujian 福建省
(省 means eyalet) we can see 省 even in the infobox.
East Azarbaijan Province استان آذربایجان شرقی
(Ostān means eyalet) we can see Ostān even in the infobox.
Damascus Governorate مُحافظة دمشق
(muḥāfaẓāt is a first-level administrative division) we can see muḥāfaẓāt even in the infobox.
So there is no such thing as standard, however you want it.
2. Which sources did you use to say "corrected name" ?
3. Common name in English books:
etc...
Takabeg ( talk) 04:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
We can get
Mamûretü'l-Azîz only 3 on google books. Moreover all of them are not English books but Turkish books as follows:
And if you want to prefer TDK's rule about düzeltme işareti, name must be changed as Mamuretülaziz. Today, in modern Turkish transliteration, we cannot use düzeltme işaretleri (â, î, û... ) limitedly. Takabeg ( talk) 06:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Artilces must be written in accordance with reliable sources, not to your personal preference and/or explanation. Takabeg ( talk) 06:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the düzeltme işareti.
2. This has everything to do with two transliteration questions:
You have arbitrarily decided which transliteration scheme is best, but you decision is not based on an understanding of Ottoman Turkish and how it is transliterated. It also is not based on frequency of occurrence in Google books, which is apparently very important to you. Note that searching for [1] (your way) gives you nine Turkish books. Searching for [2] (my way) gives you nine Turkish books... so what have you accomplished? Now the article name is different from the name used in the article. But if you insist that your way is better, I'm not going to sit here and fight you. Eventually someone else will come along and correct everything that you have done. Ordtoy ( talk) 13:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 05:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
As long as I can understand, Harput Vilayet is common name of thie vilayet in English.
Takabeg ( talk) 04:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 15:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Your "research" is, again, not relevant. You are searching for two different things: Harput and Mamûretü'l-Azîz are not the same thing. Ordtoy ( talk) 00:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 20:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC) GTBacchus( talk) 20:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Mamûretü'l-Azîz Vilayet →
Vilayet of Mamuret-ul-Aziz per
WP:COMMONNAME &
WP:ORIGINAL &
WP:USEENGLISH
-- Takabeg ( talk) 12:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mamuret-ul-Aziz Vilayet. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:21, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Adrianople Vilayet which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 12:21, 2 February 2022 (UTC)