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This is another article that is not a copyvio. If you feel inclined, please modify, though I doubt anyone will as few people ever modify articles I create (am I the only one interested in this stuff??). — Frecklefoot 19:27, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I'm thinking of removing "or role-playing games such as Neverwinter Nights" under Artificial Intelligence Programmer. Where's the intelligence in NWN?? Maybe someone knows a replacement?-- euyyn 09:18, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The image this article really needs is an image of an actual game programmer... Fredrik | talk 21:33, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Well, no one says we can't have both. :-) To clarify, I have some photos of actual game programmers at work in a game development studio. Alas, the pictures are not very interesting: it's just some guys sitting in front of computer monitors typing. Someday I might be able to get a shot of a game programmer in front of an Xbox development setup, but I don't have one right now. The Visual Studio comment was me complimenting Fredrik for the image he added. — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:14, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
Khan Parvez Sahebealam12 ( talk) 05:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Sahebe alam12 Sahebealam12 ( talk) 05:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Vacuum moved this article to Game programming. I suspect that he (she?) saw the discussion on Featured article candidates that argued the article should be called Game programming and then rewritten to reflect the new emphasis. I countered that suggestion saying that the article is more about the occupation and, while it does discuss a bit about the ing, it is more about the job itself. I stated that the article does not address the following questions:
Another user, Taxman, agreed with me. Until a consensus has been reached, please refrain from moving the page again. If you feel it should be moved to game programming, please discuss here first. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:27, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure about this phrase: 'Since this programmer is something of a "jack of all trades," he is usually paid the least out of all the programming staff and is usually easily replaced. In many cases, the workload of this programmer can be picked up by other members of the programming team, though the work he does is usually appreciated.' Can anyone in the industry back this up? Personally I think someone who can be a decent generalist in this industry is actually quite valuable. Without babbling about holistics and synergy... the 'gameplay programmer' is probably the one guy who will know the entire game inside out and appreciate how everything fits together. I know that's a role I more or less fill at my workplace, and I like to think I'm appreciated for it rather than seen as replacable :) -- Davedx
'A first person shooter such as Quake may need a very complex and low latency input system'
Not quite sure what this sentence means, could it be clarified? Input is by definition low latency, and complex? Mouse and W, A, S, D doesn't seem too complex to me ;) -- Davedx
I note from an earlier edit that David Braben was removed from the list of notable game programmers. I am not sure how famous Elite was in the US but in Europe this game was huge and it is the father of all space trading games, groundbreaking for its time in that it was wireframe 3D too. David Braben is a very notable programmer, perhaps not today (although he still makes games) but his name is still very notorious. Freakchild 07:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
It matters not whether he is a household name (although he is much closer to being so than a lot of the others on the list) or wether he is notable for "good" reasons. The fact remains that he is notable. The notirious legal wranglings between him and the co-creator of Elite are notable within the industry. The longievity of the Elite series (a new one out soon apparently) under Braben is notable. He is well known as one of the few developers still managing to maintain an independant studio and he is one of only two games developers (Peter Molyneux being the other) whos articles I have ever seen in the national press or on the BBC's website, or indeed who has been the subject of such mainstream press articles. He is perhaps a candidate for the most notable British games developer of the past 20 years. -- JamesTheNumberless 14:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I put him in. Freakchild 20:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Why was David Braben removed? It seems that after people said that he should be on the list the only person arguing against it has gone and removed him...yet again. This is amounting to nothing short of page vandalism and I don't really care if you created the page or not. This is Wikipedia, it's not just your page it's for everyone. You may not know this person but that does not mean his in not notable. Please add him back in. Freakchild 20:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I see this is an old discussion, but I just wanted to add that in Denmark, Elite was HUGE.. The biggest thing before Doom, definately, and I have several old magazines with long features devoted to that game to back up my statement. And really, what other games of that era had full 3d (wireframe) graphics and movement, as well as algorithmic content, on that scale? Certainly not this "SunDog", which I hadn't even heard about before... Is it because it's not american? Should all the Amiga, BBC, and Sinclair games from the '80s to mid-'90s be ignored, just because the japanese/american consoles outlasted them? Why? 90.184.9.80 ( talk) 18:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Went ahead and added these guys... but when I think about it, were they actual programmers, or were they just designers? Hmmm...
For that matter, it was on the History_of_computer_and_video_games, but there was a guy named A.S. Douglas as well, and it seems like he was an actual programmer... but no one really knows about him so maybe he shouldn't be on... 07:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a bit of a disagreement here about what constitutes a notable games developer. It would seem to me, by dictionary definition, that one does not have to be famous to be notable under every possible definition of the word. Might the ambiguity here be what is causing disagreement? One may be said to be "notable" on account of their worth, not their status, therefore lack of fame should not be an excluding factor from this list. If something is noteable or noteworthy it is not always widely noted. Looking at it from another perspective, perhaps the section aught to be named differently? Famous games developers? I'm not convinced that there are enough truly "famous" games developers to make this a worthwhile section. Additionally this may cause further problems as fame is demographically subjective. -- JamesTheNumberless 14:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I added a number of game developers, Scott Adams, American McGee, Bill Crowther, Don Woods, and the Miller brothers. All except Crowther and Woods were fulltime game programmers and all were seminal figures in game development. I've not included programmers (including several colleagues) who weren't pivotal, which I think should be the key criteria for this list. -- UnicornTapestry ( talk) 08:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I was just looking at this list and reading the discussions. I think what is needed is a clear inclusion criteria. What makes a game programmer notable? I propose we form some sort of consensus on how we define "notable" for this list. The method which requires the least original research and is least objective is by only adding programmers only when there's a reliable source directly stating that (s)he is a notable/significant/important programmer. If we do want to consider other factors there's criteria such as creation of video games, video games series, utilities or software used for video games, etc.. Once we've decided on a criteria it should be stated in the sentence at the start of the list section per WP:LIST. Any thoughts? Bill ( talk| contribs) 17:19, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
B44H removed a paragraph I added (actually, it may have been from my original version of the article):
He stated it was biased. While I disagree that it is biased (it is absolutely true), I don't have any source other than my personal experience (e.g. graduates of DigiPen and Full Sail). This, of course, is "original research," which is prohibited on Wikipedia (forgot that little bit when I posted it). Anyone know of any sources (aside from personal experience) that back this up? I think it's valuable information for anyone persuing a career in game programming or those looking to hire programmers. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I added that most employers require bachelors degree in maths, physics, computer science, software engineneering, computer engineering or relevant subject.
If you'll be editing it further, here are some of most usually required experiences(minimum), i didn't really know if i should add them:
JUNIOR PROGRAMMERS:
"REGULAR" PROGRAMMERS:
SENIOR PROGRAMMERS:
ALL PROGRAMMERS:(there's always at least one of these)
I.E., graphics programmers mostly need knowledge of 3D math and 3D geometry while game physics programmers need an extensive knowledge of physics etc.
It's all relative. There are game programmers without degrees who've gained jobs with no previous industry experience. In addition, games companies put heavy emphasis on the requirement of having a passion for games as the highest priority requirement. --
JamesTheNumberless 15:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this article, since it is in a special category, is affected by this rule. Much of this article seems to be original research, or at the least needs a good, hard bat with the needs-to-cite-references stick. I read through a lot of it, and much of it seems accurate, and potentially quite useful. However, that isn't enough, if it is indeed original research, to necessarily include the article in wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.110.123 ( talk • contribs)
I think that it would be good to include a chart on the basic pay scale for big companies like EA, SuareEnix, and the like. Because i'm unsure of exacally how much they would make in a yearly basis. anyone with me on this? 65.124.8.131 15:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
The image Image:Civ3.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Game development which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 19:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
How do other editors feel about just removing the list of game programmers? It's getting too long, it subjective who really is "notable" anymore, many programmers on the list aren't relevant anymore and most of the people on the list are actually noted for their contributions to design, not so much programming; they just happened to program the games they also designed (e.g. Sid Meier, Danielle Bunten Berry, Richard Garriott). Besides, we have a dedicated list they all appear on anyways. The list here is little more than subjective outtakes. Any thoughts, objections? If I don't hear from anyone within a week, I'll go ahead and remove it. Thanks. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:17, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the "multiple issues" notice on the article page. This article isn't a disaster as the notice implies. It needs more refs, true, but so do most articles. Any further issues can be brought up here without tagging the main article. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 17:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
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This is another article that is not a copyvio. If you feel inclined, please modify, though I doubt anyone will as few people ever modify articles I create (am I the only one interested in this stuff??). — Frecklefoot 19:27, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I'm thinking of removing "or role-playing games such as Neverwinter Nights" under Artificial Intelligence Programmer. Where's the intelligence in NWN?? Maybe someone knows a replacement?-- euyyn 09:18, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The image this article really needs is an image of an actual game programmer... Fredrik | talk 21:33, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Well, no one says we can't have both. :-) To clarify, I have some photos of actual game programmers at work in a game development studio. Alas, the pictures are not very interesting: it's just some guys sitting in front of computer monitors typing. Someday I might be able to get a shot of a game programmer in front of an Xbox development setup, but I don't have one right now. The Visual Studio comment was me complimenting Fredrik for the image he added. — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:14, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
Khan Parvez Sahebealam12 ( talk) 05:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Sahebe alam12 Sahebealam12 ( talk) 05:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Vacuum moved this article to Game programming. I suspect that he (she?) saw the discussion on Featured article candidates that argued the article should be called Game programming and then rewritten to reflect the new emphasis. I countered that suggestion saying that the article is more about the occupation and, while it does discuss a bit about the ing, it is more about the job itself. I stated that the article does not address the following questions:
Another user, Taxman, agreed with me. Until a consensus has been reached, please refrain from moving the page again. If you feel it should be moved to game programming, please discuss here first. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:27, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure about this phrase: 'Since this programmer is something of a "jack of all trades," he is usually paid the least out of all the programming staff and is usually easily replaced. In many cases, the workload of this programmer can be picked up by other members of the programming team, though the work he does is usually appreciated.' Can anyone in the industry back this up? Personally I think someone who can be a decent generalist in this industry is actually quite valuable. Without babbling about holistics and synergy... the 'gameplay programmer' is probably the one guy who will know the entire game inside out and appreciate how everything fits together. I know that's a role I more or less fill at my workplace, and I like to think I'm appreciated for it rather than seen as replacable :) -- Davedx
'A first person shooter such as Quake may need a very complex and low latency input system'
Not quite sure what this sentence means, could it be clarified? Input is by definition low latency, and complex? Mouse and W, A, S, D doesn't seem too complex to me ;) -- Davedx
I note from an earlier edit that David Braben was removed from the list of notable game programmers. I am not sure how famous Elite was in the US but in Europe this game was huge and it is the father of all space trading games, groundbreaking for its time in that it was wireframe 3D too. David Braben is a very notable programmer, perhaps not today (although he still makes games) but his name is still very notorious. Freakchild 07:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
It matters not whether he is a household name (although he is much closer to being so than a lot of the others on the list) or wether he is notable for "good" reasons. The fact remains that he is notable. The notirious legal wranglings between him and the co-creator of Elite are notable within the industry. The longievity of the Elite series (a new one out soon apparently) under Braben is notable. He is well known as one of the few developers still managing to maintain an independant studio and he is one of only two games developers (Peter Molyneux being the other) whos articles I have ever seen in the national press or on the BBC's website, or indeed who has been the subject of such mainstream press articles. He is perhaps a candidate for the most notable British games developer of the past 20 years. -- JamesTheNumberless 14:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I put him in. Freakchild 20:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Why was David Braben removed? It seems that after people said that he should be on the list the only person arguing against it has gone and removed him...yet again. This is amounting to nothing short of page vandalism and I don't really care if you created the page or not. This is Wikipedia, it's not just your page it's for everyone. You may not know this person but that does not mean his in not notable. Please add him back in. Freakchild 20:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I see this is an old discussion, but I just wanted to add that in Denmark, Elite was HUGE.. The biggest thing before Doom, definately, and I have several old magazines with long features devoted to that game to back up my statement. And really, what other games of that era had full 3d (wireframe) graphics and movement, as well as algorithmic content, on that scale? Certainly not this "SunDog", which I hadn't even heard about before... Is it because it's not american? Should all the Amiga, BBC, and Sinclair games from the '80s to mid-'90s be ignored, just because the japanese/american consoles outlasted them? Why? 90.184.9.80 ( talk) 18:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Went ahead and added these guys... but when I think about it, were they actual programmers, or were they just designers? Hmmm...
For that matter, it was on the History_of_computer_and_video_games, but there was a guy named A.S. Douglas as well, and it seems like he was an actual programmer... but no one really knows about him so maybe he shouldn't be on... 07:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a bit of a disagreement here about what constitutes a notable games developer. It would seem to me, by dictionary definition, that one does not have to be famous to be notable under every possible definition of the word. Might the ambiguity here be what is causing disagreement? One may be said to be "notable" on account of their worth, not their status, therefore lack of fame should not be an excluding factor from this list. If something is noteable or noteworthy it is not always widely noted. Looking at it from another perspective, perhaps the section aught to be named differently? Famous games developers? I'm not convinced that there are enough truly "famous" games developers to make this a worthwhile section. Additionally this may cause further problems as fame is demographically subjective. -- JamesTheNumberless 14:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I added a number of game developers, Scott Adams, American McGee, Bill Crowther, Don Woods, and the Miller brothers. All except Crowther and Woods were fulltime game programmers and all were seminal figures in game development. I've not included programmers (including several colleagues) who weren't pivotal, which I think should be the key criteria for this list. -- UnicornTapestry ( talk) 08:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I was just looking at this list and reading the discussions. I think what is needed is a clear inclusion criteria. What makes a game programmer notable? I propose we form some sort of consensus on how we define "notable" for this list. The method which requires the least original research and is least objective is by only adding programmers only when there's a reliable source directly stating that (s)he is a notable/significant/important programmer. If we do want to consider other factors there's criteria such as creation of video games, video games series, utilities or software used for video games, etc.. Once we've decided on a criteria it should be stated in the sentence at the start of the list section per WP:LIST. Any thoughts? Bill ( talk| contribs) 17:19, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
B44H removed a paragraph I added (actually, it may have been from my original version of the article):
He stated it was biased. While I disagree that it is biased (it is absolutely true), I don't have any source other than my personal experience (e.g. graduates of DigiPen and Full Sail). This, of course, is "original research," which is prohibited on Wikipedia (forgot that little bit when I posted it). Anyone know of any sources (aside from personal experience) that back this up? I think it's valuable information for anyone persuing a career in game programming or those looking to hire programmers. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I added that most employers require bachelors degree in maths, physics, computer science, software engineneering, computer engineering or relevant subject.
If you'll be editing it further, here are some of most usually required experiences(minimum), i didn't really know if i should add them:
JUNIOR PROGRAMMERS:
"REGULAR" PROGRAMMERS:
SENIOR PROGRAMMERS:
ALL PROGRAMMERS:(there's always at least one of these)
I.E., graphics programmers mostly need knowledge of 3D math and 3D geometry while game physics programmers need an extensive knowledge of physics etc.
It's all relative. There are game programmers without degrees who've gained jobs with no previous industry experience. In addition, games companies put heavy emphasis on the requirement of having a passion for games as the highest priority requirement. --
JamesTheNumberless 15:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this article, since it is in a special category, is affected by this rule. Much of this article seems to be original research, or at the least needs a good, hard bat with the needs-to-cite-references stick. I read through a lot of it, and much of it seems accurate, and potentially quite useful. However, that isn't enough, if it is indeed original research, to necessarily include the article in wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.110.123 ( talk • contribs)
I think that it would be good to include a chart on the basic pay scale for big companies like EA, SuareEnix, and the like. Because i'm unsure of exacally how much they would make in a yearly basis. anyone with me on this? 65.124.8.131 15:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
The image Image:Civ3.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --00:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Game development which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 19:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
How do other editors feel about just removing the list of game programmers? It's getting too long, it subjective who really is "notable" anymore, many programmers on the list aren't relevant anymore and most of the people on the list are actually noted for their contributions to design, not so much programming; they just happened to program the games they also designed (e.g. Sid Meier, Danielle Bunten Berry, Richard Garriott). Besides, we have a dedicated list they all appear on anyways. The list here is little more than subjective outtakes. Any thoughts, objections? If I don't hear from anyone within a week, I'll go ahead and remove it. Thanks. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:17, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the "multiple issues" notice on the article page. This article isn't a disaster as the notice implies. It needs more refs, true, but so do most articles. Any further issues can be brought up here without tagging the main article. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 17:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
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Hhh 2001:EE0:4C73:FE00:505D:E6CC:3EAE:5E1B ( talk) 09:13, 19 January 2022 (UTC)