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"Cast in Iraq, they are partly composed of metal from guns and tanks of Iraqi soldiers killed in the Iran-Iraq war." Iraqi or Iranian? Just wanted to make sure, as I thought using the equipment of ones own casualties for a monument is a little backwards, though still understandable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.241.134.229 ( talk) 02:20, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I heard a programme on BBC radio yesterday which had someone (an American soldier, I think) saying that most of the Iranian helmets had a single bullet hole in them, caused when the solder (a POW) was executed, reportedly by Saddam personally. I can't find any mention of this here, or anywhere else. If it's true (not just black propaganda or febrile imaginings) and we can find some reference to that effect, mentioning this would make an important improvement to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.16.135 ( talk • contribs)
I have made a few changes to the article, attempting to refine the technical details of the sculpture. The blades, for example, are cast in stainless steel, not bronze, and it is only the blades that are composed of metals from the weapons of Iraqi casualties in the Iran-Iraq war. I have also changed the fact about the bullet holes in the helmets, nothing I have read has indicated that each and every helmet is pierced by a bullet, but indeed, many have. For these clarifications, I am referring to the book, "The Monument: Art, Vulgarity and Responsibility in Iraq" by Samir al-Khalil, who's real name is Kanan Makiya. - NLK 12:46 November 4, 2006
Hello there,
I think the way it is written in the article is quite biased. The results of the Iran-Iraq war have more been a return to the status quo between the parties than anything else. Iranians consider to have successfully resisted an invasion backed by Western and Arab countries while Iraqis think they caused more damage than they got.
Thus, to bring neutrality back, I suggest to put either "commemorate Iran-Irak war" or "commemorate what Iraqis consider as a victory in Iran-Irak war". I personnally prefer the neutrality of the first proposition.
Cheers, Keizer
I agree, and I will insert some sort of clarification. What's with the spelling of Iraq as "Irak"? Is this linguistic variation? If so, I am curious as to what language it is derived...
-NLK
Sorry, I muddle sometimes between the French spelling "Irak" and the English one :) Keizer
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Victory Arch be
renamed and moved to
Arc of Triumph, Baghdad.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
The result of the move request was: Moved to Victory Arch. Sources and consensus are pointing there. Regards, MacMed talk stalk 22:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hands of Victory → Arc of Triumph, Baghdad — Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:53, 23 February 2011 (UTC) Official name in Arabic is "قوس النصر"، which is easily translated to Arc of Triumph. Check article for references. Rafy talk 03:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
The debate about whether to keep the arch intact needs to be spelled out. What were the arguments in favor and against? 98.210.208.107 ( talk) 19:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I can find no record anywhere of an Iraqi sculptor by the name of Adil Kamil who the article claims was the sculptor who designed the monument.
It is fairly clear that Saddam Hussein came up with the design concept, but the article claims that a mystery man, Adil Kamil, was charged with the task of converting the concept into drawings. However, one of the books that is actually quoted in the article, Samir Al-Khalil and Kanan Makiya's The Monument: Art, Vulgarity, and Responsibility in Iraq, specifically states that the original designer was Khaled al-Rahal, who died before he could complete the work. The project was then turned over to Mohammed Ghani Hikmat who completed it. (see pp 1-2)
Other publications that also attribute Khaled Rahal and Mohammed Ghani include:
In newspaper/ magazine articles, Ghani is generally credited with complegting this work. So, where did Adil Kamil come from????????????? Can anyone out there enlighten me?? BronHiggs ( talk) 12:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Well, it has only been one day since I posted the preceding comment about a glaring error in the article. But in spite of the short notice, and in the absence of any discussion, I have begun cleaning up the article. The error has been present since the article was started back in 2003. That means that it has been there for 15 years, and I notice that mirror sites and blogs which tend to quote Wikipedia, have perpetuated the mistake, so that the Internet is now replete with misinformation. It's time that the article was corrected. BronHiggs ( talk) 21:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
After a bit more searching, I have found one reference to one Adil Kamil who was an Abassynian novelist, active in the 1940s. This cannot be the same Adil Kamil, who was incorrectly cited as the sculptor of this monument, in the Wikipedia article. This misinformation has remained in the article for 15 years, and has proliferated across the Internet due to the sheer volume of sources that cut and paste from Wikipedia. The actual designer of the monument was Khalid (or Khaled) al-Rahal who died in 1986, after which the monument was completed by Mohammed Ghani Hikmat. In case, there is any doubt, here are a few more references that credit the al-Rahal/Ghani team with the project's design and construction:
This search only consists of books/articles available via Google Books, and does not include books published before 1980 - there are plenty of journal articles, etc published in the 60s an 70s that also cite the al-Rahal/ Ghani team, but I have not itemised these. Nor does it include books from an actual library search (I wonder if anyone actually goes to the Library any more?) BronHiggs ( talk) 05:45, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:41, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I have added Video Footage of Iraqi Army Parades at the Monument I have also added a construction Image during 1986-1989 — Preceding unsigned comment added by PreserveOurHistory ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
"Cast in Iraq, they are partly composed of metal from guns and tanks of Iraqi soldiers killed in the Iran-Iraq war." Iraqi or Iranian? Just wanted to make sure, as I thought using the equipment of ones own casualties for a monument is a little backwards, though still understandable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.241.134.229 ( talk) 02:20, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I heard a programme on BBC radio yesterday which had someone (an American soldier, I think) saying that most of the Iranian helmets had a single bullet hole in them, caused when the solder (a POW) was executed, reportedly by Saddam personally. I can't find any mention of this here, or anywhere else. If it's true (not just black propaganda or febrile imaginings) and we can find some reference to that effect, mentioning this would make an important improvement to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.16.135 ( talk • contribs)
I have made a few changes to the article, attempting to refine the technical details of the sculpture. The blades, for example, are cast in stainless steel, not bronze, and it is only the blades that are composed of metals from the weapons of Iraqi casualties in the Iran-Iraq war. I have also changed the fact about the bullet holes in the helmets, nothing I have read has indicated that each and every helmet is pierced by a bullet, but indeed, many have. For these clarifications, I am referring to the book, "The Monument: Art, Vulgarity and Responsibility in Iraq" by Samir al-Khalil, who's real name is Kanan Makiya. - NLK 12:46 November 4, 2006
Hello there,
I think the way it is written in the article is quite biased. The results of the Iran-Iraq war have more been a return to the status quo between the parties than anything else. Iranians consider to have successfully resisted an invasion backed by Western and Arab countries while Iraqis think they caused more damage than they got.
Thus, to bring neutrality back, I suggest to put either "commemorate Iran-Irak war" or "commemorate what Iraqis consider as a victory in Iran-Irak war". I personnally prefer the neutrality of the first proposition.
Cheers, Keizer
I agree, and I will insert some sort of clarification. What's with the spelling of Iraq as "Irak"? Is this linguistic variation? If so, I am curious as to what language it is derived...
-NLK
Sorry, I muddle sometimes between the French spelling "Irak" and the English one :) Keizer
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Victory Arch be
renamed and moved to
Arc of Triumph, Baghdad.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
The result of the move request was: Moved to Victory Arch. Sources and consensus are pointing there. Regards, MacMed talk stalk 22:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hands of Victory → Arc of Triumph, Baghdad — Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:53, 23 February 2011 (UTC) Official name in Arabic is "قوس النصر"، which is easily translated to Arc of Triumph. Check article for references. Rafy talk 03:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
The debate about whether to keep the arch intact needs to be spelled out. What were the arguments in favor and against? 98.210.208.107 ( talk) 19:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I can find no record anywhere of an Iraqi sculptor by the name of Adil Kamil who the article claims was the sculptor who designed the monument.
It is fairly clear that Saddam Hussein came up with the design concept, but the article claims that a mystery man, Adil Kamil, was charged with the task of converting the concept into drawings. However, one of the books that is actually quoted in the article, Samir Al-Khalil and Kanan Makiya's The Monument: Art, Vulgarity, and Responsibility in Iraq, specifically states that the original designer was Khaled al-Rahal, who died before he could complete the work. The project was then turned over to Mohammed Ghani Hikmat who completed it. (see pp 1-2)
Other publications that also attribute Khaled Rahal and Mohammed Ghani include:
In newspaper/ magazine articles, Ghani is generally credited with complegting this work. So, where did Adil Kamil come from????????????? Can anyone out there enlighten me?? BronHiggs ( talk) 12:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Well, it has only been one day since I posted the preceding comment about a glaring error in the article. But in spite of the short notice, and in the absence of any discussion, I have begun cleaning up the article. The error has been present since the article was started back in 2003. That means that it has been there for 15 years, and I notice that mirror sites and blogs which tend to quote Wikipedia, have perpetuated the mistake, so that the Internet is now replete with misinformation. It's time that the article was corrected. BronHiggs ( talk) 21:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
After a bit more searching, I have found one reference to one Adil Kamil who was an Abassynian novelist, active in the 1940s. This cannot be the same Adil Kamil, who was incorrectly cited as the sculptor of this monument, in the Wikipedia article. This misinformation has remained in the article for 15 years, and has proliferated across the Internet due to the sheer volume of sources that cut and paste from Wikipedia. The actual designer of the monument was Khalid (or Khaled) al-Rahal who died in 1986, after which the monument was completed by Mohammed Ghani Hikmat. In case, there is any doubt, here are a few more references that credit the al-Rahal/Ghani team with the project's design and construction:
This search only consists of books/articles available via Google Books, and does not include books published before 1980 - there are plenty of journal articles, etc published in the 60s an 70s that also cite the al-Rahal/ Ghani team, but I have not itemised these. Nor does it include books from an actual library search (I wonder if anyone actually goes to the Library any more?) BronHiggs ( talk) 05:45, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:41, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I have added Video Footage of Iraqi Army Parades at the Monument I have also added a construction Image during 1986-1989 — Preceding unsigned comment added by PreserveOurHistory ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 16 April 2022 (UTC)