![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I've just made an edit to remove "who competes against female cyclists" from the first sentence of the post. On a quick scan of other biographies of athletes, including transgender athletes, it does not seem usual to say what gender athlete they compete against (usually their own gender). Mwphil ( talk) 16:01, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
{{
Ds/alert}}
. --
Fæ (
talk)
08:05, 4 July 2019 (UTC)In diff I have readded what are rather obvious categories for this subject as they are notable and well reported by the press as a trans woman cyclist.
These LGBT+ related categories should not be removed en mass, without engaging in discussion on this talk page. There is overwhelming evidence in reliable sources to support them. -- Fæ ( talk) 07:49, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
They published:
Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About
Which is freely available online to download.. DravenRainrix ( talk) 19:49, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Rachel McKinnon has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add to 'Early life and education.'
She was born in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada.[ Source]
Her early sports career focused primarily on baseball, golf, and badminton. But she also participated in rugby, climbing, backcountry hiking and snowshoeing.
Golf: In 1997 she was the Junior Club Champion at Cedar Hill Golf Course.
Badminton: Rachel competed primarily in British Columbia at the provincial and national level. She represented her zone at the BC Winter Games ( Vancouver Island, Zone 6) twice, in 1996 and 1997. She was the U16 Junior Singles provincial champion in 1997.
In 2014, during her time in Calgary, AB, she won the Glencoe Masters Badminton events in 30+ Women's Singles, 30+ Women's Doubles, and 30+ Mixed Doubles.
She took up competitive cycling post-transition after her move to Charleston, SC in 2014. She began racing March 2015. Canuckbelle ( talk) 22:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
References
If we're going to include this line "The silver-medal winner, Dutch athlete Caroline van Herrikhuyzen, supported McKinnon" under "Controvery" we should also probably include the quote from the bronze finisher who did not support McKinnon and did argue that there was an unfair advantage. 71.218.92.241 ( talk) 19:53, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's policy McKinnon should be referred to using she/her pronouns. I edited the entry today to change "he" references to "she." Given the transphobia in the reaction to Rachel's recent win, this might be an ongoing battle. Is there a way to lock down the pronouns used in this entry? I am very new at this and would appreciate help/advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SamJaneB ( talk • contribs) 22:30, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Veronica Ivy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Ivy said she received more than 100,000 hateful comments on Twitter." to " citation needed Ivy said she received more than 100,000 hateful comments on Twitter. citation needed" Andronimo1959 ( talk) 16:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I have restored the section "Death comments" because it has ample sourcing and no rationale was provided to delete it. I am happy to entertain a discussion here about its inclusion, but removal without comment is disruptive editing. Elizium23 ( talk) 15:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
The subject of this article now goes by the name Veronica Ivy; see her website, Twitter, and byline on an article published today. As this is apparently a very recent change, I'm posting a notice here rather than immediately moving the article. Funcrunch ( talk) 16:23, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
The cyclist's official website is still rachelmckinnon.com so its not clear if this is a permanent change or if its more of a nom-de-plume — Preceding unsigned comment added by BudapestJoe ( talk • contribs) 20:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
Directly from the source: "My name is Dr. Veronica Ivy. I am a professional interdisciplinary philosopher, a two-time masters track cycling world champion and world record-holder, and an activist for human rights. Here you can find information on each of these facets. I used to go by Rachel McKinnon, but that has changed since December 2019."
EarthSprite∞ 18:09, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
As there have been no objections it seems this article should be moved to Veronica Ivy sooner rather than later. I'd prefer someone with more experience in page moves and redirects do the job. Funcrunch ( talk) 00:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
I was looking at the Wikidata entry and, being even less familiar with name changes on that platform, am not sure how best to go about updating it; whether to simply change the description, "given" and "family" names, or add new values while keeping the former as well (since this would not be a deadnaming issue). Funcrunch ( talk) 05:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
Deadnaming, misgendering, and extended off-topic debate over such with a now-blocked IP |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
|
Should there not be a note or something which mentions that the athletic medals were won under the name Rachel McKinnon? I assume there'd be confusion if someone tried to look them up with the name Veronica Ivy. Or perhaps a note that mentions what years the name Rachel McKinnon was used and the year Veronica Ivy began being used? Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 19:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Gleeanon409: Hi, you removed the years after "formerly Rachel McKinnon" and your edit summary just said "c/e". I wasn't sure what that meant so could you explain please? I mention above why I thought it was important to note the years. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 00:27, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
The subject's birth name was added to the infobox. Although I believe this was added in good faith I have removed it. The reference that was used, which I am deliberately not linking here, is an opinion piece that was very clearly defamatory in that it also accuses Ivy of cheating (and misgenders her throughout). We have no way of knowing whether the name given in that screed is even correct. Given that the source is so obviously motivated by pure malice against Ivy it should not be used to support any factual claims. It is not journalism. There is no reason to expect that any specific factual claims it makes have been checked in line with any journalistic standards. It is just a writer on a rant. For all we know the author of that screed might have found the name they allege to be Ivy's birth name on some random unreliable doxxing site, and simply repeated it without corroboration. I also see no need to include the name even if it is correct. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 20:24, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
This seems an appropriate article to link to, but I feel the placement against the text "belief that her birth sex gave her an unfair advantage", although the obvious place to put it, could be viewed as POV. Please have a look if you are passing and amend etc as needed. Friendly regards, Springnuts ( talk) 15:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Per Ivy's Twitter, Ivy has 'resigned' from the university, is no longer a professor and is heading immediately back to Canada. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 21:31, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Veronica Ivy is no longer listed on the faculty page as of 15 May, 2021. Plug the name into the "search CofC website" box, and it brings you out of the site and onto Google. They wasted no time taking the name off....
https://philosophy.cofc.edu/faculty-staff-listing/index.php
SpaceCoastGirl321 SpaceCoastGirl321 ( talk) 22:04, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
Ivy publically released her poor performance review and rescinded it. There is an archive copy here - https://archive.md/mwiDP It's too new to be added, but might be important to keep in mind in case her files a law suit. 74.46.66.212 ( talk) 18:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
On March 19, there was a resignation from CoC tweet:
-- Tallard ( talk) 22:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
I am genuinely bemused by the removal of "professor" from the "occupation" field in the in infobox ( diff). I fail to see how anybody who has made tenure can possibly not have that listed as part of their occupation. Is there some policy about what goes in that field that I am missing? The description "professor" has been in the infobox since late 2019. The editor who added it is blocked (for unrelated reasons) but, as far as I know, nobody has challenged its inclusion until now. I don't want to get into an edit war, particularly not with an editor who has been on the site longer than I have, but I just don't get it. Can anybody explain? Does anybody have any opinions on whether this should be included or not? -- DanielRigal ( talk) 17:57, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
It has been over 10 years since I was really active in Wikipedia, so I'm asking a question about something that puzzles me. Why is it that Veronica Ivy is where I will find the article about the person most famously known as Rachel McKinnon, but the article on Nkechi Amare Diallo is located at Rachel Dolezal? Both Rachels have changed their names, but it looks like Wikipedia respects one change but not the other. I have no idea if this is policy or an internal inconsistency, or what. Could someone explain this to me? Un sch ool 20:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Veronica Ivy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Ivy was not suspended for the "die in a grease fire tweet" as wrongly reported by the far right wing outlet National Review https://web.archive.org/web/20220215085038/https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/rachel-mckinnon-is-a-cheat-and-a-bully/ Ivy was briefly suspended for her tweet https://twitter.com/SportIsARight/status/1111596918449278977 that she did not want transphobes to literally die in a grease fire. National Review articles are NOT reliable sources. Canadaredpanda ( talk) 00:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
It's probably relevant to mention that Ivy is no longer a professor at the College of Charleston; she quit after a weak performance review. The evidence has been scrubbed from the Internet, but in any event she is no longer listed on the faculty here:
https://philosophy.cofc.edu/faculty-staff-listing/index.php 2600:1700:6E10:4E20:C940:8C1D:2CB0:5B2B ( talk) 00:07, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I've just made an edit to remove "who competes against female cyclists" from the first sentence of the post. On a quick scan of other biographies of athletes, including transgender athletes, it does not seem usual to say what gender athlete they compete against (usually their own gender). Mwphil ( talk) 16:01, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
{{
Ds/alert}}
. --
Fæ (
talk)
08:05, 4 July 2019 (UTC)In diff I have readded what are rather obvious categories for this subject as they are notable and well reported by the press as a trans woman cyclist.
These LGBT+ related categories should not be removed en mass, without engaging in discussion on this talk page. There is overwhelming evidence in reliable sources to support them. -- Fæ ( talk) 07:49, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
They published:
Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About
Which is freely available online to download.. DravenRainrix ( talk) 19:49, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Rachel McKinnon has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add to 'Early life and education.'
She was born in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada.[ Source]
Her early sports career focused primarily on baseball, golf, and badminton. But she also participated in rugby, climbing, backcountry hiking and snowshoeing.
Golf: In 1997 she was the Junior Club Champion at Cedar Hill Golf Course.
Badminton: Rachel competed primarily in British Columbia at the provincial and national level. She represented her zone at the BC Winter Games ( Vancouver Island, Zone 6) twice, in 1996 and 1997. She was the U16 Junior Singles provincial champion in 1997.
In 2014, during her time in Calgary, AB, she won the Glencoe Masters Badminton events in 30+ Women's Singles, 30+ Women's Doubles, and 30+ Mixed Doubles.
She took up competitive cycling post-transition after her move to Charleston, SC in 2014. She began racing March 2015. Canuckbelle ( talk) 22:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
References
If we're going to include this line "The silver-medal winner, Dutch athlete Caroline van Herrikhuyzen, supported McKinnon" under "Controvery" we should also probably include the quote from the bronze finisher who did not support McKinnon and did argue that there was an unfair advantage. 71.218.92.241 ( talk) 19:53, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's policy McKinnon should be referred to using she/her pronouns. I edited the entry today to change "he" references to "she." Given the transphobia in the reaction to Rachel's recent win, this might be an ongoing battle. Is there a way to lock down the pronouns used in this entry? I am very new at this and would appreciate help/advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SamJaneB ( talk • contribs) 22:30, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Veronica Ivy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Ivy said she received more than 100,000 hateful comments on Twitter." to " citation needed Ivy said she received more than 100,000 hateful comments on Twitter. citation needed" Andronimo1959 ( talk) 16:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I have restored the section "Death comments" because it has ample sourcing and no rationale was provided to delete it. I am happy to entertain a discussion here about its inclusion, but removal without comment is disruptive editing. Elizium23 ( talk) 15:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
The subject of this article now goes by the name Veronica Ivy; see her website, Twitter, and byline on an article published today. As this is apparently a very recent change, I'm posting a notice here rather than immediately moving the article. Funcrunch ( talk) 16:23, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
The cyclist's official website is still rachelmckinnon.com so its not clear if this is a permanent change or if its more of a nom-de-plume — Preceding unsigned comment added by BudapestJoe ( talk • contribs) 20:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
Directly from the source: "My name is Dr. Veronica Ivy. I am a professional interdisciplinary philosopher, a two-time masters track cycling world champion and world record-holder, and an activist for human rights. Here you can find information on each of these facets. I used to go by Rachel McKinnon, but that has changed since December 2019."
EarthSprite∞ 18:09, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
As there have been no objections it seems this article should be moved to Veronica Ivy sooner rather than later. I'd prefer someone with more experience in page moves and redirects do the job. Funcrunch ( talk) 00:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
I was looking at the Wikidata entry and, being even less familiar with name changes on that platform, am not sure how best to go about updating it; whether to simply change the description, "given" and "family" names, or add new values while keeping the former as well (since this would not be a deadnaming issue). Funcrunch ( talk) 05:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
Deadnaming, misgendering, and extended off-topic debate over such with a now-blocked IP |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
|
Should there not be a note or something which mentions that the athletic medals were won under the name Rachel McKinnon? I assume there'd be confusion if someone tried to look them up with the name Veronica Ivy. Or perhaps a note that mentions what years the name Rachel McKinnon was used and the year Veronica Ivy began being used? Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 19:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Gleeanon409: Hi, you removed the years after "formerly Rachel McKinnon" and your edit summary just said "c/e". I wasn't sure what that meant so could you explain please? I mention above why I thought it was important to note the years. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 00:27, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
The subject's birth name was added to the infobox. Although I believe this was added in good faith I have removed it. The reference that was used, which I am deliberately not linking here, is an opinion piece that was very clearly defamatory in that it also accuses Ivy of cheating (and misgenders her throughout). We have no way of knowing whether the name given in that screed is even correct. Given that the source is so obviously motivated by pure malice against Ivy it should not be used to support any factual claims. It is not journalism. There is no reason to expect that any specific factual claims it makes have been checked in line with any journalistic standards. It is just a writer on a rant. For all we know the author of that screed might have found the name they allege to be Ivy's birth name on some random unreliable doxxing site, and simply repeated it without corroboration. I also see no need to include the name even if it is correct. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 20:24, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
This seems an appropriate article to link to, but I feel the placement against the text "belief that her birth sex gave her an unfair advantage", although the obvious place to put it, could be viewed as POV. Please have a look if you are passing and amend etc as needed. Friendly regards, Springnuts ( talk) 15:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Per Ivy's Twitter, Ivy has 'resigned' from the university, is no longer a professor and is heading immediately back to Canada. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 21:31, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Veronica Ivy is no longer listed on the faculty page as of 15 May, 2021. Plug the name into the "search CofC website" box, and it brings you out of the site and onto Google. They wasted no time taking the name off....
https://philosophy.cofc.edu/faculty-staff-listing/index.php
SpaceCoastGirl321 SpaceCoastGirl321 ( talk) 22:04, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
Ivy publically released her poor performance review and rescinded it. There is an archive copy here - https://archive.md/mwiDP It's too new to be added, but might be important to keep in mind in case her files a law suit. 74.46.66.212 ( talk) 18:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
On March 19, there was a resignation from CoC tweet:
-- Tallard ( talk) 22:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
I am genuinely bemused by the removal of "professor" from the "occupation" field in the in infobox ( diff). I fail to see how anybody who has made tenure can possibly not have that listed as part of their occupation. Is there some policy about what goes in that field that I am missing? The description "professor" has been in the infobox since late 2019. The editor who added it is blocked (for unrelated reasons) but, as far as I know, nobody has challenged its inclusion until now. I don't want to get into an edit war, particularly not with an editor who has been on the site longer than I have, but I just don't get it. Can anybody explain? Does anybody have any opinions on whether this should be included or not? -- DanielRigal ( talk) 17:57, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
It has been over 10 years since I was really active in Wikipedia, so I'm asking a question about something that puzzles me. Why is it that Veronica Ivy is where I will find the article about the person most famously known as Rachel McKinnon, but the article on Nkechi Amare Diallo is located at Rachel Dolezal? Both Rachels have changed their names, but it looks like Wikipedia respects one change but not the other. I have no idea if this is policy or an internal inconsistency, or what. Could someone explain this to me? Un sch ool 20:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Veronica Ivy has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Ivy was not suspended for the "die in a grease fire tweet" as wrongly reported by the far right wing outlet National Review https://web.archive.org/web/20220215085038/https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/rachel-mckinnon-is-a-cheat-and-a-bully/ Ivy was briefly suspended for her tweet https://twitter.com/SportIsARight/status/1111596918449278977 that she did not want transphobes to literally die in a grease fire. National Review articles are NOT reliable sources. Canadaredpanda ( talk) 00:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
It's probably relevant to mention that Ivy is no longer a professor at the College of Charleston; she quit after a weak performance review. The evidence has been scrubbed from the Internet, but in any event she is no longer listed on the faculty here:
https://philosophy.cofc.edu/faculty-staff-listing/index.php 2600:1700:6E10:4E20:C940:8C1D:2CB0:5B2B ( talk) 00:07, 8 April 2023 (UTC)