Quite certain that this is not the case, despite what it written in article. ALA is the parent omega-3, which partially converts to SDA, which partially converts to EPA, which partially converts to DHA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I had gathered from my readings on the subject. - Kim — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.6.68 ( talk) 20:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
This article needs to look less like a defense of veganism (i.e. problem, then faultless answer that supposedly dismisses the problem), and more like the vegetarianism article that accurately reports facts without seeming defensive. Ronk01 talk 13:08, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I really think we should have more info about more nutrients in this article, like: Taurine, Carnitine, Glucosamine. We can surely find a lot of information on the web, but many times we find only hypothesis or biased information, and we may have to read a lot to be able to draw a conclusion. I think in this article we should have an overview, and the reference should be clinical trials as much as possible. -- Arthurfragoso ( talk) 14:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi user 142.176.6.68,
Just wanted to discuss a revert I did of your addition of the word "some", which you then reverted back to your version. The sentence in question (your version, with bold on the word I disagree with) is:
The cited study says in its conclusion:
The conclusion is that the group of vegans as a whole had ON AVERAGE a higher risk of fractures. Yes, you can break it down so that you look at those in the group who consumed >525mg (and had about same risk as non-vegans) and those who consumed <=525mg (who had much higher risk), but the fact is that the vegan group as a whole had a higher risk because they on average were not eating that higher amount of calcium.
I would be OK with changing the "some vegans" to "vegans who consumed 525mg/day or less of calcium". But I also think it's important to point out the main conclusion of the study, which is that the group as a whole had a higher risk.
Thanks :)
Wikidsoup [talk] 21:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
2 months later ... I've gone ahead and revised the description of the study to better reflect the stated conclusion of the study.
snacks
[talk]
18:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I started trying to fix mistakes in this article but got a sharp, hostile response, so I'll go put my time into something else.
If someone else wants to fix this article, here are the mistakes I see at a glance:
Maybe if existing editors were less hostile to newcomers, Wikipedia would have attracted and retained a larger contributor base and these errors would have been fixed long ago. Great floors ( talk) 13:43, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
I would suggest taking away the biased tone of the article towards vegan diets over the standard American diet. Also, some of your sources, such as the "Vitamin B12 in the Vegan Diet" article and the "Vitamin B12: Are you Getting it?" article come from biased, non-scholars sources; perhaps instead use a study from a medical journal to prove your claim. I also agree with the others that there needs to be more information on the nutrients needed to form a well rounded and sustainable vegan diet, there are far more than the few noted in the article.-- Sgberkeley19 ( talk) 03:37, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
This article does not provide significant expansion of content that already appears in the page of
veganism, except the section on choline. In my opinion, it does not make sense as an isolated page. I proposed to merge them. Best regards. --
BallenaBlanca
(Talk)
01:23, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Vegan nutrition's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "efsa":
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)The Panel notes that no dietary reference values for choline have been established in the EU. There are no reliable intake data and there are no indications of inadequate choline intakes available in the EU
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The title is very clear Chris.lilo ( talk) 22:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Veganism was more extensive than Vegan nutrition so I just moved most of the nutrition content from there to this article, to cut the size of Veganism. It also makes a lot of sense to have more detail here. I got the OK of one other user, no one else commented, so I went ahead :) See Talk:Veganism#Restructuring and moving nutrition information to Vegan nutrition -- Trimton ( talk) 20:09, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Trimton is repeatedly trying to force cancer-related content into the article with is not acceptable. Note that any medical claims need WP:MEDRS sources: so not the "Mayo Clinic", not sources which are out-of-date (especially more than 5 years old when newer ones are available). In addition, WP:NOR is policy so inclusion of content which is not about "vegan nutrition" (i.e. the meat stuff) is not good. Alexbrn ( talk) 19:58, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
the lead of this article states that vegan nutrition also covers the general health effects of vegan nutrition. It's not OR because of the to Mayo clinic reference. Indeed, the connection is mentioned in a MEDRS compliant review at [2], although rejected, in 2016. Why did you never mention MEDRS in edit summaries? And what's the new evidence available you're talking about? Please add it to the article or discuss here, for the benefit of the reader, and to help understand what you mean ⠀Trimton⠀ 20:25, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 September 2018 and 7 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Alexisrwatkins. Peer reviewers:
Alexisrwatkins.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 18 April 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AvaDalessio.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
PresleyS123 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ftaylor4 ( talk) 23:36, 20 September 2022 (UTC) To this article, I added the results of my research study related to how vegan and vegetarian diets affect pregnancy or mothers and babies whilst pregnant. As well as how or why it is important to the article as well as its importance in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PresleyS123 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
This section is using very weak sourcing, for example [8] this article by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and another piece from Sky News should be removed. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 03:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I have deleted the weak sources. I added some history of how the AI has been derived to Choline. I deleted the discussion of RDI/AI from this article as it's redundant and probably best to read the article Choline to get the whole picture. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
I have expanded this section with position papers from France, Germany and Italy. The Argentine Society of Pediatrics have issued a position paper [14] and there are recommendations from Chile [15]. If one goes looking some other countries can probably be found but they are probably not relevant to this English speaking Wikipedia. We already cover Canada. But as the section already contains a lot of information it's probably not worth making it too big. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
This systematic review [16] looked at vegetarians and iron and appears to be the only systematic review on iron intake and vegetarians. I do not have full access but the review is cited in another review [17] as "individuals adhering to a vegetarian or vegan diet are more prone to lower iron stores which may increase the risk of iron deficiency anaemia", so it must include studies on vegans. If anyone has full access we can add the source if there is confirmation about iron intake and vegans. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:50, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
While I am sceptical about the iron (see talk above) I noticed that zinc is missing. I have added a section on zinc based on the reference values of the German Nutrition Society. I think it should be padded with some context by societies form the English-speaking world. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
According to the Netherlands Nutrition Centre, the recommended amount of protein required on a vegan diet is 1.3 times higher [21]. Is there any other sources on this? The reference they give was in Dutch and I have not been able to locate it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 17:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
I have expanded the positions of dietetic and government associations section and added the position of paediatric associations. I have made sure all the sourcing is accurate to my own edits. Unfortunately some content that was added on 3 April 2021 contains original research [22] which was never checked. Unfortunately this information has remained on the article for 2 years. The content I am talking about is a list of organizations listed that recognize "a well-planned vegan diet as viable for any age". Yes some of these do indeed support this, but some organizations were added that have not stated that. So it is original research that has to be removed.
Let me go through some of these links.
National Health and Medical Research Council, Mayo Clinic [30], Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada [31], Canadian Pediatric Society [32] all support a well-planned vegan diet for any age so those were accurate however 5 references I cited above all failed to support the statement. This is a bad case of original research and not fact checking sources. This page needs to be accurate so I am making the corrections. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 21:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
The Nordic Council of Ministers (NHMRC) who published the Nordic Nutrition Recommendations 2012 have stated that "Vegan, lacto-vegetarian and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets should be able to satisfy the nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth if they are appropriately planned, but vegan diets always need to be supplemented with vitamin B12 and vitamin D." [33]. However, the Nordic Nutrition Recommendations 2023 which has just been published does not mention age groups in relation to vegan diets [34]. Because the new recommendations have been published there is no need to cite the 2012 recommendations. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
The Slovenian Paediatric Society do not support vegan diets for pregnant women and infants, this is clarified in this paper "In line with the proven effects of vegetarian and vegan diets on health and development, the Slovenian Paediatric Society advises against the use of such diets in pregnant and lactating women, newborns, infants, children, and adolescents [35]. The paper itself also links to another paper which says "Slovenian guidelines do not recommend strictly vegetarian or vegan-nutrition for children." [36] Psychologist Guy ( talk) 14:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
The article by the State of Israel Ministry of Defence [37] does not claim that "vegan diets can provide all dietary requirements in infancy", anyone can read the article and see no wording like that appears on the article therefore this edit is WP:OR [38] and should be removed.
The source says "In vegan families which avoid all animal-derived foods, it is advisable to consult with a nutritional expert or dietitian in order to assess the mother’s food consumption and consider referral for blood tests." Psychologist Guy ( talk) 15:21, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Quite certain that this is not the case, despite what it written in article. ALA is the parent omega-3, which partially converts to SDA, which partially converts to EPA, which partially converts to DHA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I had gathered from my readings on the subject. - Kim — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.6.68 ( talk) 20:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
This article needs to look less like a defense of veganism (i.e. problem, then faultless answer that supposedly dismisses the problem), and more like the vegetarianism article that accurately reports facts without seeming defensive. Ronk01 talk 13:08, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I really think we should have more info about more nutrients in this article, like: Taurine, Carnitine, Glucosamine. We can surely find a lot of information on the web, but many times we find only hypothesis or biased information, and we may have to read a lot to be able to draw a conclusion. I think in this article we should have an overview, and the reference should be clinical trials as much as possible. -- Arthurfragoso ( talk) 14:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi user 142.176.6.68,
Just wanted to discuss a revert I did of your addition of the word "some", which you then reverted back to your version. The sentence in question (your version, with bold on the word I disagree with) is:
The cited study says in its conclusion:
The conclusion is that the group of vegans as a whole had ON AVERAGE a higher risk of fractures. Yes, you can break it down so that you look at those in the group who consumed >525mg (and had about same risk as non-vegans) and those who consumed <=525mg (who had much higher risk), but the fact is that the vegan group as a whole had a higher risk because they on average were not eating that higher amount of calcium.
I would be OK with changing the "some vegans" to "vegans who consumed 525mg/day or less of calcium". But I also think it's important to point out the main conclusion of the study, which is that the group as a whole had a higher risk.
Thanks :)
Wikidsoup [talk] 21:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
2 months later ... I've gone ahead and revised the description of the study to better reflect the stated conclusion of the study.
snacks
[talk]
18:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I started trying to fix mistakes in this article but got a sharp, hostile response, so I'll go put my time into something else.
If someone else wants to fix this article, here are the mistakes I see at a glance:
Maybe if existing editors were less hostile to newcomers, Wikipedia would have attracted and retained a larger contributor base and these errors would have been fixed long ago. Great floors ( talk) 13:43, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
I would suggest taking away the biased tone of the article towards vegan diets over the standard American diet. Also, some of your sources, such as the "Vitamin B12 in the Vegan Diet" article and the "Vitamin B12: Are you Getting it?" article come from biased, non-scholars sources; perhaps instead use a study from a medical journal to prove your claim. I also agree with the others that there needs to be more information on the nutrients needed to form a well rounded and sustainable vegan diet, there are far more than the few noted in the article.-- Sgberkeley19 ( talk) 03:37, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
This article does not provide significant expansion of content that already appears in the page of
veganism, except the section on choline. In my opinion, it does not make sense as an isolated page. I proposed to merge them. Best regards. --
BallenaBlanca
(Talk)
01:23, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Vegan nutrition's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "efsa":
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)The Panel notes that no dietary reference values for choline have been established in the EU. There are no reliable intake data and there are no indications of inadequate choline intakes available in the EU
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The title is very clear Chris.lilo ( talk) 22:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Veganism was more extensive than Vegan nutrition so I just moved most of the nutrition content from there to this article, to cut the size of Veganism. It also makes a lot of sense to have more detail here. I got the OK of one other user, no one else commented, so I went ahead :) See Talk:Veganism#Restructuring and moving nutrition information to Vegan nutrition -- Trimton ( talk) 20:09, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Trimton is repeatedly trying to force cancer-related content into the article with is not acceptable. Note that any medical claims need WP:MEDRS sources: so not the "Mayo Clinic", not sources which are out-of-date (especially more than 5 years old when newer ones are available). In addition, WP:NOR is policy so inclusion of content which is not about "vegan nutrition" (i.e. the meat stuff) is not good. Alexbrn ( talk) 19:58, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
the lead of this article states that vegan nutrition also covers the general health effects of vegan nutrition. It's not OR because of the to Mayo clinic reference. Indeed, the connection is mentioned in a MEDRS compliant review at [2], although rejected, in 2016. Why did you never mention MEDRS in edit summaries? And what's the new evidence available you're talking about? Please add it to the article or discuss here, for the benefit of the reader, and to help understand what you mean ⠀Trimton⠀ 20:25, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 September 2018 and 7 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Alexisrwatkins. Peer reviewers:
Alexisrwatkins.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 18 April 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AvaDalessio.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 12:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
PresleyS123 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ftaylor4 ( talk) 23:36, 20 September 2022 (UTC) To this article, I added the results of my research study related to how vegan and vegetarian diets affect pregnancy or mothers and babies whilst pregnant. As well as how or why it is important to the article as well as its importance in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PresleyS123 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
This section is using very weak sourcing, for example [8] this article by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and another piece from Sky News should be removed. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 03:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I have deleted the weak sources. I added some history of how the AI has been derived to Choline. I deleted the discussion of RDI/AI from this article as it's redundant and probably best to read the article Choline to get the whole picture. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
I have expanded this section with position papers from France, Germany and Italy. The Argentine Society of Pediatrics have issued a position paper [14] and there are recommendations from Chile [15]. If one goes looking some other countries can probably be found but they are probably not relevant to this English speaking Wikipedia. We already cover Canada. But as the section already contains a lot of information it's probably not worth making it too big. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
This systematic review [16] looked at vegetarians and iron and appears to be the only systematic review on iron intake and vegetarians. I do not have full access but the review is cited in another review [17] as "individuals adhering to a vegetarian or vegan diet are more prone to lower iron stores which may increase the risk of iron deficiency anaemia", so it must include studies on vegans. If anyone has full access we can add the source if there is confirmation about iron intake and vegans. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:50, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
While I am sceptical about the iron (see talk above) I noticed that zinc is missing. I have added a section on zinc based on the reference values of the German Nutrition Society. I think it should be padded with some context by societies form the English-speaking world. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
According to the Netherlands Nutrition Centre, the recommended amount of protein required on a vegan diet is 1.3 times higher [21]. Is there any other sources on this? The reference they give was in Dutch and I have not been able to locate it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 17:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
I have expanded the positions of dietetic and government associations section and added the position of paediatric associations. I have made sure all the sourcing is accurate to my own edits. Unfortunately some content that was added on 3 April 2021 contains original research [22] which was never checked. Unfortunately this information has remained on the article for 2 years. The content I am talking about is a list of organizations listed that recognize "a well-planned vegan diet as viable for any age". Yes some of these do indeed support this, but some organizations were added that have not stated that. So it is original research that has to be removed.
Let me go through some of these links.
National Health and Medical Research Council, Mayo Clinic [30], Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada [31], Canadian Pediatric Society [32] all support a well-planned vegan diet for any age so those were accurate however 5 references I cited above all failed to support the statement. This is a bad case of original research and not fact checking sources. This page needs to be accurate so I am making the corrections. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 21:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
The Nordic Council of Ministers (NHMRC) who published the Nordic Nutrition Recommendations 2012 have stated that "Vegan, lacto-vegetarian and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets should be able to satisfy the nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth if they are appropriately planned, but vegan diets always need to be supplemented with vitamin B12 and vitamin D." [33]. However, the Nordic Nutrition Recommendations 2023 which has just been published does not mention age groups in relation to vegan diets [34]. Because the new recommendations have been published there is no need to cite the 2012 recommendations. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
The Slovenian Paediatric Society do not support vegan diets for pregnant women and infants, this is clarified in this paper "In line with the proven effects of vegetarian and vegan diets on health and development, the Slovenian Paediatric Society advises against the use of such diets in pregnant and lactating women, newborns, infants, children, and adolescents [35]. The paper itself also links to another paper which says "Slovenian guidelines do not recommend strictly vegetarian or vegan-nutrition for children." [36] Psychologist Guy ( talk) 14:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
The article by the State of Israel Ministry of Defence [37] does not claim that "vegan diets can provide all dietary requirements in infancy", anyone can read the article and see no wording like that appears on the article therefore this edit is WP:OR [38] and should be removed.
The source says "In vegan families which avoid all animal-derived foods, it is advisable to consult with a nutritional expert or dietitian in order to assess the mother’s food consumption and consider referral for blood tests." Psychologist Guy ( talk) 15:21, 22 October 2023 (UTC)