![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 11 May 2008. The result of the discussion was Redirect to Vampire. |
Is this complete nonsense?
seems sensible to me Lir 20:54 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
The vampirism and vampire subculture articles could be combined into one article. -- Ed Poor
Lir, let's try to distinguish between the mainstream accepted biological concept -- and the legendary bite-the-pretty-girl-on-the-neck spiritual concept. Making that distinction would improve the article, and you're just the girl to do it! (And if you refuse, please don't say "Bite me!") -- Ed Poor
"Vampiric cults have been in existence throughout history". Pending cites, I'm going to believe this is bunk.
Obviously you aren't familiar with the common practice of human's eating each other in order to gain the powers of their enemy. Lir 21:15 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
"the common practice of human's eating each other in order to gain the powers of their enemy" -- Personally, I wouldn't call this "vampirism", I'd call this "cannibalism".
Ed -- please do not encourage Lir to make this article even murkier and less-informative! Adding content will not help, when the added content only obscures different distinctions.
Lir -- you are referring to what English-speakers call cannibalism, not Vampirism. Moreover, it is far from clear that cannibals uniformly or even generally eat others in order to gain their "powers," although this is sometimes the case. There are other ways by which humans acquire the power of others -- e.g. the labor contract (do you consider capitalism a form of vampirism?) and, well, reading Jack Welsch's memoires, I guess. Would you include a baby nursing?
My point: to take every form through which humans have gained the powers of others (reading books, nursing, cannibalism) and lunp them all together as a form of "vampiric cult" is both to misinform people of the tremendous diversity of ways of being human, to misinform people about vampirism, and to misinform (and perhaps insult) cannibals. Slrubenstein
Well, you people should know by know that I most certainly considered capitalism to be a form of vampirism. I have not equated cannibalism and vampirism.
Lir 21:29 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
vampirisim is about more than drinking human blood Lir 21:31 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
and drinking human blood is not necessarily vampiric Lir 21:32 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
And, also, SLR, Lir is (mostly) right when she says, "For npov satisfaction always try to include others statements rather than deleting!" Let us all keep in mind that serious writers disagree on whether Vampires are "real" -- even though some authors such as Anne Rice plainly regard the subject as fiction. -- Ed Poor
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=vampiric+plant
nuff said
Lir 21:59 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=vampiric+leech
way more than nuff said
Lir 22:00 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Ed, I did miss your comment, thank you for calling it to my attention.
Ed, Lir, and others: Here is an example of what I think is a necessary deletion, to make the article better:
I do not doubt that some people refer to leeches (and even some bats!) as vampires; I only point out that they do so metaphorically (the websites above Lir links to prove my point), and that to include this in the article clouds the issue and puts the cart before the horse.
It is generally known that many organisms live by feeding off of other living organisms. The correct term for this is "parasitism," and to call it "vampirism" is misleading at best.
If you want to argue that "vampires" are one form of parasite, fine. But to identify parasites as forms of vampires is just absurd. An encyclopedia must aspire to some standards, you know. Slrubenstein
But Slr--when I demand that we name the Lunik I spacecraft according to it's correct technical name, everyone says, "Oh but on wikipedia we place the common terminology even higher than the technical!"
Besides, did you know that the siphoning ability of mistletoe is interesting enough that it is specifally called, "the vampire plant" by some scientists, including myself? THAT GODDAMN PLANT IS VAMPIRIC! What about the mythology of vampiric plants? (And vampiric dogs toO!) Lir 22:09 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
I am not allowed to. SLR has deleted my text. Lir 22:11 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Lir do not be a baby -- "I am not allowed to" I deleted your text because it was vague and misleading. If you want to put in a section on "Vampiric plants and animals," with a clear and explicit discussion of how any why these plants and animals are so labeled, by all means do so. And then I will suggest not deleting but dividing the article into two seperate articles, one on vampiric plants and animals (which could presumably explain their behavior in terms of selective forces and their functioning within an ecosystem), and another one on vampirism among humans (which from what I have read so far is explained in completely different terms). I will continue to delete crap. But I guess I have a higher opinion of you than you have of yourself, because I am absolutely certain that you are capable of writing stuff that isn't crap, and that will not be deleted. Slrubenstein
I am sorry slr-I can not conceive what is wrong with
It can also be used to refer to leeches, mosquitos, various plants, or the like, which prey upon the blood or sap of other creatures.
As you see, the term vampiric/vampirism can be used (as in regards to) various creatures (say mosquitors for instance, or leeches, or certain plants) which prey upon the fluids of other creatures.
I mean, hey, maybe your ability to determine what is and isn't crap, is itself crap. Lir 22:20 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
If its misleading to you, then plz add clarifications so you are no longer confused. I certainly never thought that leeches sought supernatural powers. What an absurd notion. Lir 22:26 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
I suggest that the 2 of you take turns. SLR, why not be a gentleman and let Lir have the article for next hour? You and I can sit here on the sidelines and make helpful comments on the talk page. -- Ed Poor
It wasn't so bad. But there are now 5 different people editing this article simultaneously. It would be better if we discussed disagreements, rather than deleting text. There is no harm in letting a "competing" version stay up for a few minutes. -- Ed Poor
I'd like to add something the following:
Let's also distinguish between
Following on some remarks by SLR above:
Is Lir kidding when she says "You just think that Anne Rice made that interview up...but I guess you are allowed to your silly POV thoughts...Lir"? --
Tarquin 23:20 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
No. Lir 23:23 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Considering how fleshed-out the main vampire article is right now, this article seems pretty redundant. I vote that any non-duplicate content be merged from here to there, and this article be made a redirect to the vampire article. Thoughts? - Sean 08:34, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
The article mentions the compulsion to count having mostly dissapeared from pop colture. I seem to recall an X-Files episode where this comes up. I also remember reading something about shoe tieing (which I think was mentioned in teh x-files episode as well. Can anyone confirm?
Overriding redirect, adding RS's with a stub. — James Cantor ( talk) 00:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Because it was wrong, and other articles on here give more information. In general, vampirism refers to the practices of vampires; this article gave only one narrow meaning and neglected the primary one, and one of its two sentences was unsourced. — 173.199.215.5 ( talk) 01:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 11 May 2008. The result of the discussion was Redirect to Vampire. |
Is this complete nonsense?
seems sensible to me Lir 20:54 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
The vampirism and vampire subculture articles could be combined into one article. -- Ed Poor
Lir, let's try to distinguish between the mainstream accepted biological concept -- and the legendary bite-the-pretty-girl-on-the-neck spiritual concept. Making that distinction would improve the article, and you're just the girl to do it! (And if you refuse, please don't say "Bite me!") -- Ed Poor
"Vampiric cults have been in existence throughout history". Pending cites, I'm going to believe this is bunk.
Obviously you aren't familiar with the common practice of human's eating each other in order to gain the powers of their enemy. Lir 21:15 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
"the common practice of human's eating each other in order to gain the powers of their enemy" -- Personally, I wouldn't call this "vampirism", I'd call this "cannibalism".
Ed -- please do not encourage Lir to make this article even murkier and less-informative! Adding content will not help, when the added content only obscures different distinctions.
Lir -- you are referring to what English-speakers call cannibalism, not Vampirism. Moreover, it is far from clear that cannibals uniformly or even generally eat others in order to gain their "powers," although this is sometimes the case. There are other ways by which humans acquire the power of others -- e.g. the labor contract (do you consider capitalism a form of vampirism?) and, well, reading Jack Welsch's memoires, I guess. Would you include a baby nursing?
My point: to take every form through which humans have gained the powers of others (reading books, nursing, cannibalism) and lunp them all together as a form of "vampiric cult" is both to misinform people of the tremendous diversity of ways of being human, to misinform people about vampirism, and to misinform (and perhaps insult) cannibals. Slrubenstein
Well, you people should know by know that I most certainly considered capitalism to be a form of vampirism. I have not equated cannibalism and vampirism.
Lir 21:29 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
vampirisim is about more than drinking human blood Lir 21:31 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
and drinking human blood is not necessarily vampiric Lir 21:32 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
And, also, SLR, Lir is (mostly) right when she says, "For npov satisfaction always try to include others statements rather than deleting!" Let us all keep in mind that serious writers disagree on whether Vampires are "real" -- even though some authors such as Anne Rice plainly regard the subject as fiction. -- Ed Poor
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=vampiric+plant
nuff said
Lir 21:59 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=vampiric+leech
way more than nuff said
Lir 22:00 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Ed, I did miss your comment, thank you for calling it to my attention.
Ed, Lir, and others: Here is an example of what I think is a necessary deletion, to make the article better:
I do not doubt that some people refer to leeches (and even some bats!) as vampires; I only point out that they do so metaphorically (the websites above Lir links to prove my point), and that to include this in the article clouds the issue and puts the cart before the horse.
It is generally known that many organisms live by feeding off of other living organisms. The correct term for this is "parasitism," and to call it "vampirism" is misleading at best.
If you want to argue that "vampires" are one form of parasite, fine. But to identify parasites as forms of vampires is just absurd. An encyclopedia must aspire to some standards, you know. Slrubenstein
But Slr--when I demand that we name the Lunik I spacecraft according to it's correct technical name, everyone says, "Oh but on wikipedia we place the common terminology even higher than the technical!"
Besides, did you know that the siphoning ability of mistletoe is interesting enough that it is specifally called, "the vampire plant" by some scientists, including myself? THAT GODDAMN PLANT IS VAMPIRIC! What about the mythology of vampiric plants? (And vampiric dogs toO!) Lir 22:09 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
I am not allowed to. SLR has deleted my text. Lir 22:11 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Lir do not be a baby -- "I am not allowed to" I deleted your text because it was vague and misleading. If you want to put in a section on "Vampiric plants and animals," with a clear and explicit discussion of how any why these plants and animals are so labeled, by all means do so. And then I will suggest not deleting but dividing the article into two seperate articles, one on vampiric plants and animals (which could presumably explain their behavior in terms of selective forces and their functioning within an ecosystem), and another one on vampirism among humans (which from what I have read so far is explained in completely different terms). I will continue to delete crap. But I guess I have a higher opinion of you than you have of yourself, because I am absolutely certain that you are capable of writing stuff that isn't crap, and that will not be deleted. Slrubenstein
I am sorry slr-I can not conceive what is wrong with
It can also be used to refer to leeches, mosquitos, various plants, or the like, which prey upon the blood or sap of other creatures.
As you see, the term vampiric/vampirism can be used (as in regards to) various creatures (say mosquitors for instance, or leeches, or certain plants) which prey upon the fluids of other creatures.
I mean, hey, maybe your ability to determine what is and isn't crap, is itself crap. Lir 22:20 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
If its misleading to you, then plz add clarifications so you are no longer confused. I certainly never thought that leeches sought supernatural powers. What an absurd notion. Lir 22:26 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
I suggest that the 2 of you take turns. SLR, why not be a gentleman and let Lir have the article for next hour? You and I can sit here on the sidelines and make helpful comments on the talk page. -- Ed Poor
It wasn't so bad. But there are now 5 different people editing this article simultaneously. It would be better if we discussed disagreements, rather than deleting text. There is no harm in letting a "competing" version stay up for a few minutes. -- Ed Poor
I'd like to add something the following:
Let's also distinguish between
Following on some remarks by SLR above:
Is Lir kidding when she says "You just think that Anne Rice made that interview up...but I guess you are allowed to your silly POV thoughts...Lir"? --
Tarquin 23:20 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
No. Lir 23:23 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)
Considering how fleshed-out the main vampire article is right now, this article seems pretty redundant. I vote that any non-duplicate content be merged from here to there, and this article be made a redirect to the vampire article. Thoughts? - Sean 08:34, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
The article mentions the compulsion to count having mostly dissapeared from pop colture. I seem to recall an X-Files episode where this comes up. I also remember reading something about shoe tieing (which I think was mentioned in teh x-files episode as well. Can anyone confirm?
Overriding redirect, adding RS's with a stub. — James Cantor ( talk) 00:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Because it was wrong, and other articles on here give more information. In general, vampirism refers to the practices of vampires; this article gave only one narrow meaning and neglected the primary one, and one of its two sentences was unsourced. — 173.199.215.5 ( talk) 01:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)