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Please help expand. Dullfig 19:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Should it be clarified that a value does not need to be a number? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.120.151.152 ( talk) 14:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I am not happy about this stub. To say that 'functions map a set of values to another set of values' does not at all help the reader to understand the conventional distinction between function arguments (input) and function values (output). I strongly suspect that the person who formerly made a redirection to function had this distinction in mind. (By the way, this is the reason why real-valued function refers only to the range, not to the domain.) At the same time, I do recognise that we mathematicians tend to use the same terms in different meanings in different contexts; and 'values' of variables certainly are mentioned. In some common situations (e.g., with existing and non-zero Jacobians), you do not need to distinguish input from output very carefully; and the description supra might be more apt.
I would like to rewrite this in a more 'conventional' manner. Actually, I found the stub while looking for sensible references from an improved version of binary operation; but was disappointed. JoergenB 12:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Go for it! Like I said above, the whole article is more of a "placeholder" than anything else. I am not qualified to write a math article, so why fake it? Dullfig 20:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
What does vaule mean
This would be a good place to introduce the concept of value function, which currently redirects to the Bellman equation page. Rinconsoleao ( talk) 13:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
My understanding is that a value is a Canonical form of an expression that allows equality to be calculated by literally comparing the forms.
Is this right?
Thepigdog ( talk) 09:20, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
OK fair enough then. You clearly believe that what I have written is wrong. But the existing article says almost nothing about what a value is. You haven't answered the question "what is a value". You refer to a value twice in the one sentence without giving hint of what the purpose of a value is. Sigh. Anyway I give up. Sorry to trouble you. This is not personal at all and I have no problem with what you have done. Kind regards Thepigdog ( talk) 14:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry I cant quite leave this alone. Which part of this is wrong.
What part of this argument do you think is in any way wrong or original research? Doesn't it follow from this argument that a number is a canonical representation of an expression. By this I mean,
My opening statement which you said was rubbish is,
So I am saying that 122 (clearly a value) is a canonical form of a mathematical expression (55+67). I am at a loss to see what your objection is. Please enlighten me. Would you have me find a reference to show that 55+67 = 122? Isn't basic maths and reasoning allowed? Thepigdog ( talk) 15:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
WP:RELIABLE requires inline sources for all challenged material. NE Ent 15:25, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Thepigdog ( talk) 17:28, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
But remember the audience. The reader is important not you. If you are correct you have not explained yourself. And you have not answered the points above.
Hey its your page now, do as you will. Enjoy yourself. Kind regards Thepigdog ( talk) 11:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
The book "Introduction to Modern Mathematics" describes a value as the output of a function. The input is the argument. That is very different from the modern understanding of a value in computer science. The meaning of the word seems to have morphed over time. To me "value" means some information (data) representing the state of something. The value is the representation, either as a series of bits, or digits or characters. If it is in a variable or is the output or input of a function is irrelevant. So these are values,
However these have values but are not values,
We may as well be being talking French and English. I can crawl back to the computer science realm, but I haven't found a mathematical definition of a computer science "value". I am expecting to see a definition,
meaning that a value is a property of an expression which is the identical if the expressions are equal but not otherwise. The term "identical" means equal, in the domain of representations of values.
I am also expecting to see the following common axiom of mathematical systems.
Meaning that two equivalent expressions must have the same value. Alternatively, every expression has one and only one value. How strange and confusing the terminology has become.
Thepigdog ( talk) 02:51, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
The phrase "also called the variable" is ambiguous. The value and the argument are both variable with most functions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montananevadagirl ( talk • contribs) 12:31, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
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Please help expand. Dullfig 19:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Should it be clarified that a value does not need to be a number? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.120.151.152 ( talk) 14:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I am not happy about this stub. To say that 'functions map a set of values to another set of values' does not at all help the reader to understand the conventional distinction between function arguments (input) and function values (output). I strongly suspect that the person who formerly made a redirection to function had this distinction in mind. (By the way, this is the reason why real-valued function refers only to the range, not to the domain.) At the same time, I do recognise that we mathematicians tend to use the same terms in different meanings in different contexts; and 'values' of variables certainly are mentioned. In some common situations (e.g., with existing and non-zero Jacobians), you do not need to distinguish input from output very carefully; and the description supra might be more apt.
I would like to rewrite this in a more 'conventional' manner. Actually, I found the stub while looking for sensible references from an improved version of binary operation; but was disappointed. JoergenB 12:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Go for it! Like I said above, the whole article is more of a "placeholder" than anything else. I am not qualified to write a math article, so why fake it? Dullfig 20:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
What does vaule mean
This would be a good place to introduce the concept of value function, which currently redirects to the Bellman equation page. Rinconsoleao ( talk) 13:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
My understanding is that a value is a Canonical form of an expression that allows equality to be calculated by literally comparing the forms.
Is this right?
Thepigdog ( talk) 09:20, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
OK fair enough then. You clearly believe that what I have written is wrong. But the existing article says almost nothing about what a value is. You haven't answered the question "what is a value". You refer to a value twice in the one sentence without giving hint of what the purpose of a value is. Sigh. Anyway I give up. Sorry to trouble you. This is not personal at all and I have no problem with what you have done. Kind regards Thepigdog ( talk) 14:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry I cant quite leave this alone. Which part of this is wrong.
What part of this argument do you think is in any way wrong or original research? Doesn't it follow from this argument that a number is a canonical representation of an expression. By this I mean,
My opening statement which you said was rubbish is,
So I am saying that 122 (clearly a value) is a canonical form of a mathematical expression (55+67). I am at a loss to see what your objection is. Please enlighten me. Would you have me find a reference to show that 55+67 = 122? Isn't basic maths and reasoning allowed? Thepigdog ( talk) 15:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
WP:RELIABLE requires inline sources for all challenged material. NE Ent 15:25, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Thepigdog ( talk) 17:28, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
But remember the audience. The reader is important not you. If you are correct you have not explained yourself. And you have not answered the points above.
Hey its your page now, do as you will. Enjoy yourself. Kind regards Thepigdog ( talk) 11:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
The book "Introduction to Modern Mathematics" describes a value as the output of a function. The input is the argument. That is very different from the modern understanding of a value in computer science. The meaning of the word seems to have morphed over time. To me "value" means some information (data) representing the state of something. The value is the representation, either as a series of bits, or digits or characters. If it is in a variable or is the output or input of a function is irrelevant. So these are values,
However these have values but are not values,
We may as well be being talking French and English. I can crawl back to the computer science realm, but I haven't found a mathematical definition of a computer science "value". I am expecting to see a definition,
meaning that a value is a property of an expression which is the identical if the expressions are equal but not otherwise. The term "identical" means equal, in the domain of representations of values.
I am also expecting to see the following common axiom of mathematical systems.
Meaning that two equivalent expressions must have the same value. Alternatively, every expression has one and only one value. How strange and confusing the terminology has become.
Thepigdog ( talk) 02:51, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
The phrase "also called the variable" is ambiguous. The value and the argument are both variable with most functions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montananevadagirl ( talk • contribs) 12:31, 3 February 2014 (UTC)