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There are two ongoing edit wars. The first is over the external links, and the second is over the tagging of the popular culture section. This is disruptive, and it looks to me as if there are ownership issues here. No one owns this article. And content disputes are, by definition, not vandalism, so please stop characterizing them as such.
Please discuss the changes rationally here before reverting any more, otherwise I would not be surprised to see this article receive full protection for edit waring, and rather soon. And then the article will be in a state unwanted by someone. — Becksguy ( talk) 12:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Barrow has a "damp" law, not a "bone dry" law. I live here (Barrow), I know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big Bot ( talk • contribs) 09:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Need to update the mayor. Her name is not there. 198.123.56.217 ( talk) 20:58, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
"Beginning on around May 11 or 12 the sun remains above the horizon the entire day, there is a increasing amount of twilight each day, and on the summer solstice (around June 21 or June 22), civil twilight in Barrow lasts for more than 3 hours and the phenomenon known as the midnight sun is observed." -- How can there be any
twilight in the summer if
the sun is up all night long?
24.23.196.85 (
talk)
02:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I see that this issue has (finally!) been resolved. I'm removing the contradiction tag. Thanks, whoever you are!
24.23.196.85 (
talk)
06:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. The previous move was made without discussion, so I have reverted that per request at WP:RMTR. If anyone wants to go ahead and propose a move to Utqiaġvik, they are welcome to do so. — Amakuru ( talk) 21:58, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Utqiaġvik, Alaska →
Barrow, Alaska – Per
WP:COMMONNAME. I will repeat my argument from above: If
Bangalore, a city with 1,996 times the population of Barrow and much more well known around the world, is still commonly being referred to as "Bangalore" despite the official name change to "Bengaluru" over 2 years ago, there is no way Barrow is all of a sudden being called "Utqiagvik" – an even more obscure and difficult-to-pronounce name than "Bengaluru" for most English-speakers – a mere two months after the name change. —
Sunnya343✈ (
háblame •
my work)
23:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
BARROW, Alaska (KTUU) - Voters in Barrow have narrowly approved an ordinance to rename the city Utqiaġvik, according to final results from the city clerk’s office.
Following this change, I believe the article should be re-titled and names adjusted throughout the article. Azotochtli ( talk) 16:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
It should be changed. It IS the common name of the community, and has been for centuries. Barrow is far more recent, and the recent vote is reverting back to the common name for the community. The official name is the common name. People should respect the will of the community to call their community by its real name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naulagmi ( talk • contribs) 05:59, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
@ VonWoland:@ Kmoksy:In the interest of discussing this instead of engaging in move warring, would you please explain why you moved this while a move discussion was ongoing and no consensus had been reached, as can be seen above? Once again, please read WP:AT, which is the operative policy regarding this issue. Whenever I've said something in the past which others interpreted as applying IAR to established policy because I may not have necessarily agreed with that policy, I've been called on the carpet about it. I don't see how this is any different. Boldly moving the article like this reveals numerous problems. The biggest problem is that it suggests that our primary purpose is to blindly respond to yesterday's headlines and to provide a venue for advocacy on issues. If you bothered to look beyond the headline, you would have seen that this doesn't become official until December 1. That is mentioned in the very first sentence of the story. Are you assuming that this needs to be done now because people will have forgotten about it in another month? That's been the case in countless other instances where we reflect headlines and trending topics without regard to actual happenings when the two don't necessarily occur at the same time. Furthermore, like with any name change, it will take quite some time for it to sink in among the general public, as I mentioned above in the case of the ADN. The story indicated that the percentage of Iñupiat residing in the community exceeds the percentage by which the question passed by at least several percentage points. That says that no clear consensus exists in the real world, just as no clear consensus had been established here beforehand as is customarily expected. All this is important in terms of delineating the difference between an encyclopedia which is supposed to trade in facts and a news site which peddles headlines "while they're hot" and doesn't necessarily follow up to factual happenings at the appropriate time. Regardless of all that, WP:AT and specifically WP:COMMONNAME still applies whether the name change were to take effect immediately or in another month. I don't like repeating myself, but I suppose it's important to reiterate that common names trump official names every time. A clear indication of this topic's common name can be found in the simplest Google search:
Methinks you would have a better chance of walking to the North Pole from Barrow Utqiaġvik ? than you would in overcoming a chasm like that. This is all too reminiscent of past moves from English names to indigenous names merely based on announcements, press releases and the like without regard for official or common recognition or even common sense. The main difference here is that this article is a little higher profile than many others which have been moved in like fashion, so it needed a more thorough discussion first before any thoughts of moving occurred.
RadioKAOS /
Talk to me, Billy /
Transmissions
20:10, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
alaKSa → alaSKa ["Kmoksy moved page Utqiaġvik, Alaksa to Utqiaġvik, Alaska"] -- Kmoksy ( talk) 01:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Change it back - you jumped the gun on this one. Legally it is still Barrow, so set it back ASAP. The name should not be changed again until after Governor Byron Mallott approves the name change. The state is the legal authority that approves the name of a city, and until the governor authorizes it, legally it is still Barrow. For American city names in Wikipedia, we are suppose to use the legal name in the format of "City, State" for the Wikipedia article name. The 3 main sources that should be used for name references is GNIS / IRS Census / US Post Office, but their databases will lag after a name changes. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 04:49, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
While the article itself should clearly be moved to Utqiagvik, someone was clearly overzealous in doing a find-replace in the article. Historical references to the city from 1850-2016 or so should still say "Barrow" IMO, at least if that was the word used at the time - it's weirdly bizarre to see, say, that an Agents of SHIELD episode released surely before the name change should say "Utqiagvik". (Unless they actually used that phrase for some reason.) SnowFire ( talk) 22:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
It is now the official name of the community (as of December 1st), and statewide media is now referring the the community as Utqiagvik in their news articles. (Alaska Dispatch News, Alaska Public Media). Seems to be the common name now used in government, media and people of Utqiagvik themselves. Time to move wikipedia page to Utqiagvik? -- Naulagmi ( talk) 04:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Change it. The current title has the unfortunate honor of being both racist and wrong. This is supposed to be an Encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.131.80 ( talk) 07:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC) — 58.7.131.80 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
What I said is based on what I read here. You say, "Much like Denali, Utqiagvik is a regionalism gaining wider credence after it became official." Looking at some non-Alaskan sources, that doesn't appear to be the case, and I doubt it has gained wider credence only two months after the name change. I feel we just need to be patient and wait for more sources, as I explain further in the below RM discussion. — Sunnya343✈ ( háblame • my work) 04:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved (for now). ( closed by non-admin page mover) Paine Ellsworth u/ c 11:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska → Utqiaġvik, Alaska – Official name change discussed previously here and here above. — AjaxSmack 03:28, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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If the name has been officially changed from Barrow, why do we still use Barrow here? Upjav ( talk) 18:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved.( closed by non-admin page mover) ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ ( talk) 07:03, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska →
Utqiagvik – I read the discussions above and they chose not to move because it wasn't the common name yet, fair enough. I did a quick google news search and all recent sources use Utqiagvik (
[2],
[3]) etc... The name should be Utqiagvik since that is the official name, the name of the official website, and the references in the news. If someone is to search this place after reading about it, they would be redirected to an old name that is not in use in the media. It has been stable for over a year now with the new name, so it's here to stay. Just like we should no longer use Leningrad for St. Petersburg even though there are many historical references to Leningrad, it's always best to match the current use in the media.
Mattximus (
talk)
14:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Support per my nomination explanation. Mattximus ( talk) 14:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia and the article cited says the meaning of the name is "place for gathering wild potatoes." USGS geonames says it meant "high place for viewing". Which is correct? It would be good if a native Inupiaq speaker could comment on this.-- JuliaEKingston ( talk) 09:58, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I was late here for the arguments about whether the article's name should change from Barrow to Utqiaġvik or not. Personally I think it's appropriate for it to be Barrow until the name change becomes official — which will be the end of next week, on December 1 [correction: last year on Dec 1], as all litigation about the name change has been settled. [This is a current correct detail: I got this from an official email from an Alaska Court System source.] Regardless of when the article name change happens here, it's inevitable.
Alaska government entities are already in the process of changing the name in government publications and websites. More recently: the Alaska Supreme Court has issued [Alaska] Supreme Court Order No. 1916 effective January 1, 2018 "approving revisions to the [Alaska Court System] venue map and community chart referenced in Criminal Rule 18 to address the renaming of Barrow as Utqiagvik." The court site there will no longer be Barrow Superior Court — it'll be Utqiagvik Superior Court.
Good news for Alaska Natives! As a (white) Alaskan, I'm very happy on your behalf, & to respect the choice of Utqiagvik residents to have their home called by the name they called it by long before us European Americans came along. — Yksin ( talk) 19:32, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I've done my research on the litigation, which is the thing that up till now has been holding up changes in official government websites to the city's name.
Result of litigation: It's a done deal. The city is & will remain Utqiaġvik. The court dismissed the anti-name change lawsuit "with prejudice" in early October 2017. Changes to USPS and city, state, and federal websites will follow.
Summary of litigation: After the vote in October 2016 to change Barrow's name to Utqiaġvik, the local Native corporation, Ukpeaġvik Iñupiat Corporation (UIT for short, & here's their website), sued the City of Utqiaġvik to put off the name change, claiming that the city hadn't properly followed ordinances about proper notice before taking the vote & had also picked the wrong name for the city. UIT claimed the city rename should have been to the same name the corporation uses, Ukpeaġvik, which UIC claimed was the real ancient name of the area. It means 'place to hunt snowy owls' (whereas Utqiaġvik means 'place to gather wild roots'). (The second Lisa Demer story below dated 2016-12-17 goes into considerable detail about this.) UIT also sought a second vote to turn back the name, but the Utqiaġvik City Council blocked that in February 2017. On March 9, 2017, Judge Paul Roetman heard arguments in the dispute, and ruled the following day that UIT had failed to prove its case and that Utqiaġvik could continue the work it was doing to change its name — such as working with state and federal authorities, including the U.S. Postal Service. This wasn't a final decision, but his ruling on March 10 was a strong indicator that the name change would stick. Alaska state authorities, meantime, had been holding off from doing big changes while they waited for this whole dispute to play out.
Then, on October 10, Utqiaġvik Mayor Fannie Suvlu announced that UIT and the City of Utqiaġvik had reached a settlement in the name change lawsuit. According to an October 13 "in brief" item in the Arctic Sounder (see full list of stories below):
A longer story appearing in the Arctic Sounder on October 20:
As I noted previously, one result of the litigation now having been settled with finality is [Alaska] Supreme Court Order No. 1916 effective January 1, 2018 "approving revisions to the [Alaska Court System] venue map and community chart referenced in Criminal Rule 18 to address the renaming of Barrow as Utqiagvik." The court site there will no longer be Barrow Superior Court — it'll be Utqiagvik Superior Court.
Meanwhile, Alaska news sources including the Alaska Dispatch News (which just in the past few days has returned to its own earlier name the Anchorage Daily News), Alaska Public Media, the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, the Juneau Empire, and the Arctic Sounder, among others, have already for months been routinely calling the city Utqiaġvik in their stories, often without bothering to explain that it was formerly known as Barrow. (Though Barrow is still used sometimes, especially in reference to events that happened there prior to the name change.) Gov. Bill Walker also routinely calls the city by its chosen name, such as in this disaster declaration for the North Slope Borough from November 14 where he refers to "low-lying area flooding in Utqiagvik" — again, no reference to anyplace named "Barrow."
Newspaper stories about litigation (chronological)
— Yksin ( talk) 23:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Barrow should be redirected and the new city name should be the actual title of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:642:C104:9290:5526:170E:9B4B:B16F ( talk) 17:57, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
I have recently gone through and corrected everything in the article to the new name, and I would agree that the name of the article should be changed. This situation is similar to Frobisher bay being renamed to Iqaluit or Mt. McKinley being renamed to Denali. The GNIS says Utqiaġvik is the official name. Howpper ( talk) 21:16, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: procedural close, reverted to stable title per WP:RMTR; the page was moved on March 26 without discussion after several previous move discussions. Please open a new move discussion if a move to either Utqiaġvik or Utqiagvik is desired. See WP:RM#CM for details. Dekimasu よ! 18:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Utqiaġvik, Alaska →
Utqiagvik, Alaska –
WP:COMMONNAME in English does not use a dot over the "g". See, for example,
the official website,
some
news
articles, and this
google trends graph.
Chessrat (
talk,
contributions)
12:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Shortly after the voters of Barrow first voted to change Barrow's name to Utqiaġvik, RadioKAOS did a Google count of hits on variations of the town's name. Here's what was reported on October 31, 2016:
A little more than a year later, I thought it would be useful to do a recount. I also searched on each city name by itself (without Alaska added). 'Barrow' of course is has other meanings, so gets a lot of hits on its own even when it has nothing to do with Alaska or the particular city in Alaska (even if Alaska otherwise appears on the webpage), so I'm not sure that means anything really meaningful in this discussion.
Search term | 31 Oct 2016 | 21 Nov 2017 | % increase/decrease |
---|---|---|---|
Barrow | [not counted] | 12,500,000 | n/a |
Barrow, Alaska | 5,000,000 | 1,660,000 | - 66.8% |
"Barrow, Alaska" | 414,000 | 443,000 | + 7.0% |
"Point Barrow" | [not counted] | 281,000 | n/a |
Point Barrow, Alaska | [not counted] | 351,000 | n/a |
"Point Barrow, Alaska" | [not counted] | 96,100 | n/a |
Utqiagvik | [not counted] | 28,600 | n/a |
Utqiagvik, Alaska | 10,200 | 24,100 | + 136.3 |
"Utqiagvik, Alaska" | 648 | 12,800 | + 1,875.3% |
Utqiaġvik | [not counted] | 19,400 | n/a |
Utqiaġvik, Alaska | 5,230 | 10,700 | + 104.6% |
"Utqiaġvik, Alaska" | 112 | 14,600 | + 12,935% |
Utqiagvik/Utqiaġvik in its variations has had an incredible uptick since October 2016, whereas "Barrow, Alaska" has had only a very modest increase. (I think something must have been awry with last year's count with Barrow, Alaska not inside quotes — even now I had a difference of 60,000 between a search an hour ago and a search just now). It's also obvious from above that a lot of the hits on Barrow, Alaska and "Barrow, Alaska" come from Point Barrow — which is a point of land, not synonymous with the city.
It'll take awhile for Utqiagvik/Utqiaġvik to overtake Barrow in total hits — but I think there's a probability it's already overtaken it in NEW uses since the name change just went into effect. Barrow was in use as the city name for much longer, and a lot of those pages will still be online, whereas Utqiaġvik and Utqiagvik (without the thingy over the g) were not used much until just over a year ago. It's already more commonly used in the Alaska press. It'll be interesting to see what it'll be a year from now. — Yksin ( talk) 02:14, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
Mount McKinley's article was changed to Denali... Iqaluit was renamed a long time ago from "Frobisher Bay" Leaving the article with the old name is just going to make people get it wrong longer. Barrow isn't even listed in the GNIS anymore. https://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=138:2:0::NO:RP: ( talk) 13:09, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
I think the above search tally is missing a confounding variable: this name is really difficult to spell. Most people, even in Alaska, are not going to have a ġ key on their keyboard, and those few who do may still be difficult to search for because of the very subtle difference between ġ as a composed character and ġ as a unitary character. (Both resolve identically inside Wikipedia, but I cant guarantee that the same is the case for Google). Even aside from that issue, the name is also difficult to spell for English speakers who are not able to distinguish between /k/ and /q/ and who may not pronounce t he /ġ/ at all.(cf YouTube clips of the name being spoken in English) . I know that we've corrected fore that by searching for variant spellings, but i think that many people unsure of the spelling while typing out a webpage will just stick with "Barrow" out of comfort. Only way to correct for this anomaly would be to restrict the type of webpages we search on to govt publications etc, which are likely already leaning towards the new name.
I suspect this will cause the name to be perceived as foreign in a way that Denali never was,and artificially hold back the time at which the search engine results pull even. — Soap — 19:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
I would like to see an official English pronunciation , and will be looking to try to find one on an official site. YouTube results are inconsistent. — Soap — 20:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Some towns in Arizona have 2 names. e.g. St._Johns,_Arizona is, in Navajo, Tsézhin Deezʼáhí. Albuquerque is Beeʼeldííl Dahsinil. Most foreign languages do not translate or substitute placenames, but I'm told that Navajo is exceptional here in that they not only have separate names, but they have coined new native names for places that did not exist until settled by colonists. Likewise, Prudhoe Bay, Alaska is known as Sagavanirktok. However, Barrow/Utqiaġvik seems to be unique in that the Inupiaq name has completely supplanted the English, such that even though their website is available in English only, it has no mention of the name Barrow. — Soap — 20:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 11:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska → Utqiagvik, Alaska – The name has been officially changed for two years, the lawsuit about the name change has been dropped, so it is extremely unlikely that the name will ever go back to Barrow. Local, national and international media now almost invariably refer to the town as Utqiaġvik or Utqiagvik. Doing a Google News search in the last year of "Utqiagvik, Alaska"/"Utqiaġvik, Alaska", there are just as many results as for "Barrow, Alaska" (15 pages of results each). (Barrow would likely have even less except for the common practice of stating Utqiagvik (formerly Barrow) in such news reports, as well as the continued use of Barrow High School, covering sports reports). Finally, there is significant evidence that people (including Governor Bill Walker, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, Utqiaġvik's mayor and other officials) have begun to commonly refer to Utqiaġvik as such. There is even an now established English pronounciaton of the name: UUT-kee-AH-vik. Of course, not every one uses Utqiagvik yet, but there is evidence that Utqiagvik is the preferred name for any official discourse and commonly in the community and within Alaska. In previous discussions, people have rightly suggested waiting until the dust settles, but it has been two years and the name Utqiagvik has now been cemented. 65.74.123.242 ( talk) 01:13, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
This reference is posted as 'insecure' by IE11. I'm guessing it actually isn't, but as a matter of course should such references be removed? Silas Stoat ( talk) 18:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
This article's lede claims "Nearby Point Barrow is the country's northernmost point. It is also the northernmost point of the entire American mainland landmass that begins at the very southernmost tip of South America. To go any further north, you would either have to venture into the icy expanse of the Arctic Ocean, or go to the islands of the Arctic Archipelago." However, the article for Point Barrow claims that Murchison Promontory is further north. And comparing the latitudes listed on the Point Barrow (71°23′20″N) and Murchison Promontory (72°00′00″N) articles supports that the latter is further north. I will remove the incorrect part of the claim in the lede. -- Presearch ( talk) 19:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
There are two ongoing edit wars. The first is over the external links, and the second is over the tagging of the popular culture section. This is disruptive, and it looks to me as if there are ownership issues here. No one owns this article. And content disputes are, by definition, not vandalism, so please stop characterizing them as such.
Please discuss the changes rationally here before reverting any more, otherwise I would not be surprised to see this article receive full protection for edit waring, and rather soon. And then the article will be in a state unwanted by someone. — Becksguy ( talk) 12:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Barrow has a "damp" law, not a "bone dry" law. I live here (Barrow), I know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big Bot ( talk • contribs) 09:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Need to update the mayor. Her name is not there. 198.123.56.217 ( talk) 20:58, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
"Beginning on around May 11 or 12 the sun remains above the horizon the entire day, there is a increasing amount of twilight each day, and on the summer solstice (around June 21 or June 22), civil twilight in Barrow lasts for more than 3 hours and the phenomenon known as the midnight sun is observed." -- How can there be any
twilight in the summer if
the sun is up all night long?
24.23.196.85 (
talk)
02:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I see that this issue has (finally!) been resolved. I'm removing the contradiction tag. Thanks, whoever you are!
24.23.196.85 (
talk)
06:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. The previous move was made without discussion, so I have reverted that per request at WP:RMTR. If anyone wants to go ahead and propose a move to Utqiaġvik, they are welcome to do so. — Amakuru ( talk) 21:58, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Utqiaġvik, Alaska →
Barrow, Alaska – Per
WP:COMMONNAME. I will repeat my argument from above: If
Bangalore, a city with 1,996 times the population of Barrow and much more well known around the world, is still commonly being referred to as "Bangalore" despite the official name change to "Bengaluru" over 2 years ago, there is no way Barrow is all of a sudden being called "Utqiagvik" – an even more obscure and difficult-to-pronounce name than "Bengaluru" for most English-speakers – a mere two months after the name change. —
Sunnya343✈ (
háblame •
my work)
23:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
BARROW, Alaska (KTUU) - Voters in Barrow have narrowly approved an ordinance to rename the city Utqiaġvik, according to final results from the city clerk’s office.
Following this change, I believe the article should be re-titled and names adjusted throughout the article. Azotochtli ( talk) 16:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
It should be changed. It IS the common name of the community, and has been for centuries. Barrow is far more recent, and the recent vote is reverting back to the common name for the community. The official name is the common name. People should respect the will of the community to call their community by its real name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naulagmi ( talk • contribs) 05:59, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
@ VonWoland:@ Kmoksy:In the interest of discussing this instead of engaging in move warring, would you please explain why you moved this while a move discussion was ongoing and no consensus had been reached, as can be seen above? Once again, please read WP:AT, which is the operative policy regarding this issue. Whenever I've said something in the past which others interpreted as applying IAR to established policy because I may not have necessarily agreed with that policy, I've been called on the carpet about it. I don't see how this is any different. Boldly moving the article like this reveals numerous problems. The biggest problem is that it suggests that our primary purpose is to blindly respond to yesterday's headlines and to provide a venue for advocacy on issues. If you bothered to look beyond the headline, you would have seen that this doesn't become official until December 1. That is mentioned in the very first sentence of the story. Are you assuming that this needs to be done now because people will have forgotten about it in another month? That's been the case in countless other instances where we reflect headlines and trending topics without regard to actual happenings when the two don't necessarily occur at the same time. Furthermore, like with any name change, it will take quite some time for it to sink in among the general public, as I mentioned above in the case of the ADN. The story indicated that the percentage of Iñupiat residing in the community exceeds the percentage by which the question passed by at least several percentage points. That says that no clear consensus exists in the real world, just as no clear consensus had been established here beforehand as is customarily expected. All this is important in terms of delineating the difference between an encyclopedia which is supposed to trade in facts and a news site which peddles headlines "while they're hot" and doesn't necessarily follow up to factual happenings at the appropriate time. Regardless of all that, WP:AT and specifically WP:COMMONNAME still applies whether the name change were to take effect immediately or in another month. I don't like repeating myself, but I suppose it's important to reiterate that common names trump official names every time. A clear indication of this topic's common name can be found in the simplest Google search:
Methinks you would have a better chance of walking to the North Pole from Barrow Utqiaġvik ? than you would in overcoming a chasm like that. This is all too reminiscent of past moves from English names to indigenous names merely based on announcements, press releases and the like without regard for official or common recognition or even common sense. The main difference here is that this article is a little higher profile than many others which have been moved in like fashion, so it needed a more thorough discussion first before any thoughts of moving occurred.
RadioKAOS /
Talk to me, Billy /
Transmissions
20:10, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
alaKSa → alaSKa ["Kmoksy moved page Utqiaġvik, Alaksa to Utqiaġvik, Alaska"] -- Kmoksy ( talk) 01:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Change it back - you jumped the gun on this one. Legally it is still Barrow, so set it back ASAP. The name should not be changed again until after Governor Byron Mallott approves the name change. The state is the legal authority that approves the name of a city, and until the governor authorizes it, legally it is still Barrow. For American city names in Wikipedia, we are suppose to use the legal name in the format of "City, State" for the Wikipedia article name. The 3 main sources that should be used for name references is GNIS / IRS Census / US Post Office, but their databases will lag after a name changes. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 04:49, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
While the article itself should clearly be moved to Utqiagvik, someone was clearly overzealous in doing a find-replace in the article. Historical references to the city from 1850-2016 or so should still say "Barrow" IMO, at least if that was the word used at the time - it's weirdly bizarre to see, say, that an Agents of SHIELD episode released surely before the name change should say "Utqiagvik". (Unless they actually used that phrase for some reason.) SnowFire ( talk) 22:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
It is now the official name of the community (as of December 1st), and statewide media is now referring the the community as Utqiagvik in their news articles. (Alaska Dispatch News, Alaska Public Media). Seems to be the common name now used in government, media and people of Utqiagvik themselves. Time to move wikipedia page to Utqiagvik? -- Naulagmi ( talk) 04:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Change it. The current title has the unfortunate honor of being both racist and wrong. This is supposed to be an Encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.131.80 ( talk) 07:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC) — 58.7.131.80 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
What I said is based on what I read here. You say, "Much like Denali, Utqiagvik is a regionalism gaining wider credence after it became official." Looking at some non-Alaskan sources, that doesn't appear to be the case, and I doubt it has gained wider credence only two months after the name change. I feel we just need to be patient and wait for more sources, as I explain further in the below RM discussion. — Sunnya343✈ ( háblame • my work) 04:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved (for now). ( closed by non-admin page mover) Paine Ellsworth u/ c 11:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska → Utqiaġvik, Alaska – Official name change discussed previously here and here above. — AjaxSmack 03:28, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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If the name has been officially changed from Barrow, why do we still use Barrow here? Upjav ( talk) 18:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved.( closed by non-admin page mover) ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ ( talk) 07:03, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska →
Utqiagvik – I read the discussions above and they chose not to move because it wasn't the common name yet, fair enough. I did a quick google news search and all recent sources use Utqiagvik (
[2],
[3]) etc... The name should be Utqiagvik since that is the official name, the name of the official website, and the references in the news. If someone is to search this place after reading about it, they would be redirected to an old name that is not in use in the media. It has been stable for over a year now with the new name, so it's here to stay. Just like we should no longer use Leningrad for St. Petersburg even though there are many historical references to Leningrad, it's always best to match the current use in the media.
Mattximus (
talk)
14:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Support per my nomination explanation. Mattximus ( talk) 14:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia and the article cited says the meaning of the name is "place for gathering wild potatoes." USGS geonames says it meant "high place for viewing". Which is correct? It would be good if a native Inupiaq speaker could comment on this.-- JuliaEKingston ( talk) 09:58, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I was late here for the arguments about whether the article's name should change from Barrow to Utqiaġvik or not. Personally I think it's appropriate for it to be Barrow until the name change becomes official — which will be the end of next week, on December 1 [correction: last year on Dec 1], as all litigation about the name change has been settled. [This is a current correct detail: I got this from an official email from an Alaska Court System source.] Regardless of when the article name change happens here, it's inevitable.
Alaska government entities are already in the process of changing the name in government publications and websites. More recently: the Alaska Supreme Court has issued [Alaska] Supreme Court Order No. 1916 effective January 1, 2018 "approving revisions to the [Alaska Court System] venue map and community chart referenced in Criminal Rule 18 to address the renaming of Barrow as Utqiagvik." The court site there will no longer be Barrow Superior Court — it'll be Utqiagvik Superior Court.
Good news for Alaska Natives! As a (white) Alaskan, I'm very happy on your behalf, & to respect the choice of Utqiagvik residents to have their home called by the name they called it by long before us European Americans came along. — Yksin ( talk) 19:32, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I've done my research on the litigation, which is the thing that up till now has been holding up changes in official government websites to the city's name.
Result of litigation: It's a done deal. The city is & will remain Utqiaġvik. The court dismissed the anti-name change lawsuit "with prejudice" in early October 2017. Changes to USPS and city, state, and federal websites will follow.
Summary of litigation: After the vote in October 2016 to change Barrow's name to Utqiaġvik, the local Native corporation, Ukpeaġvik Iñupiat Corporation (UIT for short, & here's their website), sued the City of Utqiaġvik to put off the name change, claiming that the city hadn't properly followed ordinances about proper notice before taking the vote & had also picked the wrong name for the city. UIT claimed the city rename should have been to the same name the corporation uses, Ukpeaġvik, which UIC claimed was the real ancient name of the area. It means 'place to hunt snowy owls' (whereas Utqiaġvik means 'place to gather wild roots'). (The second Lisa Demer story below dated 2016-12-17 goes into considerable detail about this.) UIT also sought a second vote to turn back the name, but the Utqiaġvik City Council blocked that in February 2017. On March 9, 2017, Judge Paul Roetman heard arguments in the dispute, and ruled the following day that UIT had failed to prove its case and that Utqiaġvik could continue the work it was doing to change its name — such as working with state and federal authorities, including the U.S. Postal Service. This wasn't a final decision, but his ruling on March 10 was a strong indicator that the name change would stick. Alaska state authorities, meantime, had been holding off from doing big changes while they waited for this whole dispute to play out.
Then, on October 10, Utqiaġvik Mayor Fannie Suvlu announced that UIT and the City of Utqiaġvik had reached a settlement in the name change lawsuit. According to an October 13 "in brief" item in the Arctic Sounder (see full list of stories below):
A longer story appearing in the Arctic Sounder on October 20:
As I noted previously, one result of the litigation now having been settled with finality is [Alaska] Supreme Court Order No. 1916 effective January 1, 2018 "approving revisions to the [Alaska Court System] venue map and community chart referenced in Criminal Rule 18 to address the renaming of Barrow as Utqiagvik." The court site there will no longer be Barrow Superior Court — it'll be Utqiagvik Superior Court.
Meanwhile, Alaska news sources including the Alaska Dispatch News (which just in the past few days has returned to its own earlier name the Anchorage Daily News), Alaska Public Media, the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, the Juneau Empire, and the Arctic Sounder, among others, have already for months been routinely calling the city Utqiaġvik in their stories, often without bothering to explain that it was formerly known as Barrow. (Though Barrow is still used sometimes, especially in reference to events that happened there prior to the name change.) Gov. Bill Walker also routinely calls the city by its chosen name, such as in this disaster declaration for the North Slope Borough from November 14 where he refers to "low-lying area flooding in Utqiagvik" — again, no reference to anyplace named "Barrow."
Newspaper stories about litigation (chronological)
— Yksin ( talk) 23:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Barrow should be redirected and the new city name should be the actual title of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:642:C104:9290:5526:170E:9B4B:B16F ( talk) 17:57, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
I have recently gone through and corrected everything in the article to the new name, and I would agree that the name of the article should be changed. This situation is similar to Frobisher bay being renamed to Iqaluit or Mt. McKinley being renamed to Denali. The GNIS says Utqiaġvik is the official name. Howpper ( talk) 21:16, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: procedural close, reverted to stable title per WP:RMTR; the page was moved on March 26 without discussion after several previous move discussions. Please open a new move discussion if a move to either Utqiaġvik or Utqiagvik is desired. See WP:RM#CM for details. Dekimasu よ! 18:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Utqiaġvik, Alaska →
Utqiagvik, Alaska –
WP:COMMONNAME in English does not use a dot over the "g". See, for example,
the official website,
some
news
articles, and this
google trends graph.
Chessrat (
talk,
contributions)
12:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Shortly after the voters of Barrow first voted to change Barrow's name to Utqiaġvik, RadioKAOS did a Google count of hits on variations of the town's name. Here's what was reported on October 31, 2016:
A little more than a year later, I thought it would be useful to do a recount. I also searched on each city name by itself (without Alaska added). 'Barrow' of course is has other meanings, so gets a lot of hits on its own even when it has nothing to do with Alaska or the particular city in Alaska (even if Alaska otherwise appears on the webpage), so I'm not sure that means anything really meaningful in this discussion.
Search term | 31 Oct 2016 | 21 Nov 2017 | % increase/decrease |
---|---|---|---|
Barrow | [not counted] | 12,500,000 | n/a |
Barrow, Alaska | 5,000,000 | 1,660,000 | - 66.8% |
"Barrow, Alaska" | 414,000 | 443,000 | + 7.0% |
"Point Barrow" | [not counted] | 281,000 | n/a |
Point Barrow, Alaska | [not counted] | 351,000 | n/a |
"Point Barrow, Alaska" | [not counted] | 96,100 | n/a |
Utqiagvik | [not counted] | 28,600 | n/a |
Utqiagvik, Alaska | 10,200 | 24,100 | + 136.3 |
"Utqiagvik, Alaska" | 648 | 12,800 | + 1,875.3% |
Utqiaġvik | [not counted] | 19,400 | n/a |
Utqiaġvik, Alaska | 5,230 | 10,700 | + 104.6% |
"Utqiaġvik, Alaska" | 112 | 14,600 | + 12,935% |
Utqiagvik/Utqiaġvik in its variations has had an incredible uptick since October 2016, whereas "Barrow, Alaska" has had only a very modest increase. (I think something must have been awry with last year's count with Barrow, Alaska not inside quotes — even now I had a difference of 60,000 between a search an hour ago and a search just now). It's also obvious from above that a lot of the hits on Barrow, Alaska and "Barrow, Alaska" come from Point Barrow — which is a point of land, not synonymous with the city.
It'll take awhile for Utqiagvik/Utqiaġvik to overtake Barrow in total hits — but I think there's a probability it's already overtaken it in NEW uses since the name change just went into effect. Barrow was in use as the city name for much longer, and a lot of those pages will still be online, whereas Utqiaġvik and Utqiagvik (without the thingy over the g) were not used much until just over a year ago. It's already more commonly used in the Alaska press. It'll be interesting to see what it'll be a year from now. — Yksin ( talk) 02:14, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
Mount McKinley's article was changed to Denali... Iqaluit was renamed a long time ago from "Frobisher Bay" Leaving the article with the old name is just going to make people get it wrong longer. Barrow isn't even listed in the GNIS anymore. https://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=138:2:0::NO:RP: ( talk) 13:09, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
I think the above search tally is missing a confounding variable: this name is really difficult to spell. Most people, even in Alaska, are not going to have a ġ key on their keyboard, and those few who do may still be difficult to search for because of the very subtle difference between ġ as a composed character and ġ as a unitary character. (Both resolve identically inside Wikipedia, but I cant guarantee that the same is the case for Google). Even aside from that issue, the name is also difficult to spell for English speakers who are not able to distinguish between /k/ and /q/ and who may not pronounce t he /ġ/ at all.(cf YouTube clips of the name being spoken in English) . I know that we've corrected fore that by searching for variant spellings, but i think that many people unsure of the spelling while typing out a webpage will just stick with "Barrow" out of comfort. Only way to correct for this anomaly would be to restrict the type of webpages we search on to govt publications etc, which are likely already leaning towards the new name.
I suspect this will cause the name to be perceived as foreign in a way that Denali never was,and artificially hold back the time at which the search engine results pull even. — Soap — 19:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
I would like to see an official English pronunciation , and will be looking to try to find one on an official site. YouTube results are inconsistent. — Soap — 20:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Some towns in Arizona have 2 names. e.g. St._Johns,_Arizona is, in Navajo, Tsézhin Deezʼáhí. Albuquerque is Beeʼeldííl Dahsinil. Most foreign languages do not translate or substitute placenames, but I'm told that Navajo is exceptional here in that they not only have separate names, but they have coined new native names for places that did not exist until settled by colonists. Likewise, Prudhoe Bay, Alaska is known as Sagavanirktok. However, Barrow/Utqiaġvik seems to be unique in that the Inupiaq name has completely supplanted the English, such that even though their website is available in English only, it has no mention of the name Barrow. — Soap — 20:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 11:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Barrow, Alaska → Utqiagvik, Alaska – The name has been officially changed for two years, the lawsuit about the name change has been dropped, so it is extremely unlikely that the name will ever go back to Barrow. Local, national and international media now almost invariably refer to the town as Utqiaġvik or Utqiagvik. Doing a Google News search in the last year of "Utqiagvik, Alaska"/"Utqiaġvik, Alaska", there are just as many results as for "Barrow, Alaska" (15 pages of results each). (Barrow would likely have even less except for the common practice of stating Utqiagvik (formerly Barrow) in such news reports, as well as the continued use of Barrow High School, covering sports reports). Finally, there is significant evidence that people (including Governor Bill Walker, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, Utqiaġvik's mayor and other officials) have begun to commonly refer to Utqiaġvik as such. There is even an now established English pronounciaton of the name: UUT-kee-AH-vik. Of course, not every one uses Utqiagvik yet, but there is evidence that Utqiagvik is the preferred name for any official discourse and commonly in the community and within Alaska. In previous discussions, people have rightly suggested waiting until the dust settles, but it has been two years and the name Utqiagvik has now been cemented. 65.74.123.242 ( talk) 01:13, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
This reference is posted as 'insecure' by IE11. I'm guessing it actually isn't, but as a matter of course should such references be removed? Silas Stoat ( talk) 18:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
This article's lede claims "Nearby Point Barrow is the country's northernmost point. It is also the northernmost point of the entire American mainland landmass that begins at the very southernmost tip of South America. To go any further north, you would either have to venture into the icy expanse of the Arctic Ocean, or go to the islands of the Arctic Archipelago." However, the article for Point Barrow claims that Murchison Promontory is further north. And comparing the latitudes listed on the Point Barrow (71°23′20″N) and Murchison Promontory (72°00′00″N) articles supports that the latter is further north. I will remove the incorrect part of the claim in the lede. -- Presearch ( talk) 19:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)