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Did you know?" column on
January 21, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
Ur-Quan from the 1992
science-fiction game
Star Control II are ranked among the best game antagonists of all time, and have influenced character design in modern games? | ||||||||||||
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It's really quite bad how the author of this page told the story of the Ur-Quan. Striving not to look like he's plagiarising the actual in-game content (which failed rather badly), he/she robbed the telling of most of its story-likeness. This looks like a police report, not something told in the presence of an open fire, to fascinated listeners. Single-verb sentences aren't really good for keeping the reader interested, you know. Someone PLEASE rewrite this?
--AbuDhabi
Why don't you rewrite it?
Agreed, why dont you show us how it should be done instead of criticising?
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: David Fuchs ( talk · contribs) 19:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
In progress.
Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
talk
19:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Overall, while this article is competently written, I don't think it meets GA criteria at present.
If you can find additional sources to bolster the reception section, I will take another look. Otherwise I think the article doesn't meet standards at present. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
I went ahead and addressed all of your points. The current version should have access dates, time codes for the long video, and improved citations for the "Background" section. I also added new sources to the reception, focusing on both the quality of the source and the quality of the coverage. You'll see the reception section is expanded, with new sources and more detail. If this one is close to GA quality, I would simply call it here, WP:IGNORE the additional sources and analysis below, and I'd be happy to iron out the last few kinks.
On the other hand, I might be more strict on sourcing than other editors. I have enough self-awareness that I might be preventing the article from having as much detail as it deserves, and that might actually make for a better article. So I also wrote a version with even more detail in the reception, which I self-reverted as a matter of personal taste but but can re-add if you think it has merit. I've made notes on the 11 additional sources in this Longer Version:
As you can see, the longer (self-reverted) version has 46 sources, versus only 35 sources for the shorter (current) version. Like I said, I would err towards the current 35 source version as quality over quantity, which is still expanded from where we were a week ago. If we're up to standard, we can WP:IGNORE the rest of those sources in the edit history, and save yourself some effort.
That said, I can put in more effort if you can. I'd just need to know how many references we still need to cross the GA line. I don't mind working at this if you'd be gracious enough to give me more time and direction. I figure we can select the refs, and then I can spend time cleaning up the prose, particularly for WP:QUOTEFARM. Shooterwalker ( talk) 22:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
-- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:20, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
"We really made a conscious effort to stay away from stereotypes and give every alien race a history that justified their behavior. ... In the Ur-Quan's case, they were under cruel, psychic control themselves for millennia and when they finally broke free the desire never to be in that position again ... overpowered any other mitigating factors."
— Fred Ford, Star Control co-creator, GameSpy Classic Gaming FeatureGameSpy Staff (May 24, 2001). "Star Control II History - Fred Ford discussion". GameSpy Classic Gaming. Archived from the original on May 24, 2001. Retrieved November 25, 2020.
I wanted to archive this here. I have no doubt that the quote is authentic, but the source is old and janky. It's documented here in case there is further discussion. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk)
19:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker ( talk). Self-nominated at 19:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC).
How is this notable? We do not have similar pages for more famous franchises (e.g. Zerg). This page has been deleted before for this reason. However, it was recreated with only "reliable source", not "secondary sources" or "independent of the subject".
Most of the "name drop" quotes in the "Reception" section are simply "mentions" in context of the game rather than about the race itself. They do not make the race stand out as a plot device or character. For example,
This similarly led GameSpot to rank the Star Control II soundtrack as the second greatest of all time, as "these themes were as diverse as the aliens' appearances. Your Green Ur-Quan masters had a commanding, pounding beat, while their more sinister brothers, the Black Ur-Quan, had a more menacing and subtle theme."
the above quote simply complement the soundtrack of Star Control II, rather than make a relevant statement about Ur-Quan's significance.-- Voidvector ( talk) 00:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ur-Quan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find video game sources: "Ur-Quan" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 730 days
![]() |
![]() | Ur-Quan is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 17, 2022. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 21, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
Ur-Quan from the 1992
science-fiction game
Star Control II are ranked among the best game antagonists of all time, and have influenced character design in modern games? | ||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-07-22. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
It's really quite bad how the author of this page told the story of the Ur-Quan. Striving not to look like he's plagiarising the actual in-game content (which failed rather badly), he/she robbed the telling of most of its story-likeness. This looks like a police report, not something told in the presence of an open fire, to fascinated listeners. Single-verb sentences aren't really good for keeping the reader interested, you know. Someone PLEASE rewrite this?
--AbuDhabi
Why don't you rewrite it?
Agreed, why dont you show us how it should be done instead of criticising?
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: David Fuchs ( talk · contribs) 19:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
In progress.
Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
talk
19:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Overall, while this article is competently written, I don't think it meets GA criteria at present.
If you can find additional sources to bolster the reception section, I will take another look. Otherwise I think the article doesn't meet standards at present. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
I went ahead and addressed all of your points. The current version should have access dates, time codes for the long video, and improved citations for the "Background" section. I also added new sources to the reception, focusing on both the quality of the source and the quality of the coverage. You'll see the reception section is expanded, with new sources and more detail. If this one is close to GA quality, I would simply call it here, WP:IGNORE the additional sources and analysis below, and I'd be happy to iron out the last few kinks.
On the other hand, I might be more strict on sourcing than other editors. I have enough self-awareness that I might be preventing the article from having as much detail as it deserves, and that might actually make for a better article. So I also wrote a version with even more detail in the reception, which I self-reverted as a matter of personal taste but but can re-add if you think it has merit. I've made notes on the 11 additional sources in this Longer Version:
As you can see, the longer (self-reverted) version has 46 sources, versus only 35 sources for the shorter (current) version. Like I said, I would err towards the current 35 source version as quality over quantity, which is still expanded from where we were a week ago. If we're up to standard, we can WP:IGNORE the rest of those sources in the edit history, and save yourself some effort.
That said, I can put in more effort if you can. I'd just need to know how many references we still need to cross the GA line. I don't mind working at this if you'd be gracious enough to give me more time and direction. I figure we can select the refs, and then I can spend time cleaning up the prose, particularly for WP:QUOTEFARM. Shooterwalker ( talk) 22:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
-- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:20, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
"We really made a conscious effort to stay away from stereotypes and give every alien race a history that justified their behavior. ... In the Ur-Quan's case, they were under cruel, psychic control themselves for millennia and when they finally broke free the desire never to be in that position again ... overpowered any other mitigating factors."
— Fred Ford, Star Control co-creator, GameSpy Classic Gaming FeatureGameSpy Staff (May 24, 2001). "Star Control II History - Fred Ford discussion". GameSpy Classic Gaming. Archived from the original on May 24, 2001. Retrieved November 25, 2020.
I wanted to archive this here. I have no doubt that the quote is authentic, but the source is old and janky. It's documented here in case there is further discussion. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk)
19:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker ( talk). Self-nominated at 19:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC).
How is this notable? We do not have similar pages for more famous franchises (e.g. Zerg). This page has been deleted before for this reason. However, it was recreated with only "reliable source", not "secondary sources" or "independent of the subject".
Most of the "name drop" quotes in the "Reception" section are simply "mentions" in context of the game rather than about the race itself. They do not make the race stand out as a plot device or character. For example,
This similarly led GameSpot to rank the Star Control II soundtrack as the second greatest of all time, as "these themes were as diverse as the aliens' appearances. Your Green Ur-Quan masters had a commanding, pounding beat, while their more sinister brothers, the Black Ur-Quan, had a more menacing and subtle theme."
the above quote simply complement the soundtrack of Star Control II, rather than make a relevant statement about Ur-Quan's significance.-- Voidvector ( talk) 00:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)