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(Call me an embittered POV anti-US conspiracy theorist, if you like, but) this article seems distinctly POV (pro-OSCE) to me. I do hope people aren't losing interest in this as it fades into the past: this is about democracy; this is important. I think we ought at the very least to have a link to < http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=241\>. What do people think about its contents?
New developments should also be posted in the appropriate section at Current events. — Michael Z. 06:38, 2004 Nov 10 (UTC)
Related pages, which may need updating as events develop:
There are several articles online dealing with election inconsistencies, and the monitors from the OSCE and CIS countries. I may have time to get to this later, but if anyone would like to take a crack at starting an election corruption section that would be groovy. -- thames 17:57, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
There's a solid thread here tracing to a whole new wp article to outside involvement in general by foreign states in democratic elections.
There's enough leads here to go digging:
< http://talk.workunlimited.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html\>
and don't forget the big campaign by UK newspapers for UK citizens to write to US citizens and explain to them how they should vote.
There's real scope for a lot of digging about the corruption of the democratic process by foreign governments, as opposed to foreign citizens too. I hope that something on wiki comes up to point out that the Ukraine thing, even if it is wildly popular, isn't 100% grass roots.
anonymous, 8-12-04
Yushchenko's got an almost 20 point lead!
Over 10 thousands of supporters of Victor Youshchenko, the oposition presidential candidate, gather on the Independence Square in central Kiev. http://webcam.inter.ua/ru/640x480.html
By this time over 50 thousand people have gathered in the Independence Square. -- Steschke 12:22, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)
Hasn't the fact that their names are so similar caused any confusion at the polls?
To you them may seem similar but in Ukrainian the names start with different letters, so it's not that difficult to distunguish them.
Yushchenko = Ющенко
Yanukovych = Янукович
-- Berkut 03:53, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This Financial Times article talks about the ongoing power struggle: Yushchenko probes Kuchma regime, by Stefan Wagstyl and Tom Warner. It was deemed too POV to be linked from current events, but has some interesting information that I haven't seen elsewhere. Can anyone link to other articles in the same vein (I mean analytical, not POV). — Michael Z.
Isn't it truly bizarre to have only a picture from a demonstration of Yanukovich's supporters (rather than Yushenko's), when the true newspiece has been the (by all accounts) much more massive demonstrations of Yushenko's supporters, and Yanukovich's more limited demonstrations came only in response to those? Aris Katsaris 19:08, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Between the two rounds of the election, dramatic increases in turnout were recorded in Yanukovych-supporting regions, while Yushchenko-supporting regions recorded the same turnout or lower than recorded in the first round. This effect was most marked in eastern Ukraine and especially in Yanukovych's stronghold of Donetsk, where a turnout of 98.5% was claimed—more than 40% up from the first round. In some districts, turnout was claimed to be more than 100%, with one district claiming a 127% turnout.
Can whoever added that cite the source? I think results and numbers should be used from Centreal Election Comission (CEC) website http://www.cvk.gov.ua/wp333pt001f01=501 (Ukr). I know those results are not to be trusted, but they are only and most "official" results availbale.
I've made an image showing voter turnout by region.
-- Berkut 15:49, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
may refer to a specific raion or poll, rather than to an entire oblast. The quote is always vague. — Michael Z.
This map is misleading as it shows percentages in relation to the regional/Oblast and as such does not accurately reflect the distribution of the vote. Ukraine's Presidential election is a National electorate not regional. The map as presented does not take into account the fact that each region has significantly different number of constituents a ratio of 1 to 8.
Ukr-Trident (
talk)
08:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
If it is to be published then it should be accompanied by a disclaimer that highlights the distortion in the statistics presented. Unlike the other map there is no relationship shown between oblast/regions even though it gives an impression there is. If is to be published then it should be color graded using a single color and based on the variance of the total national vote not the percentage of each region as shown here in the 2010 Presidential election first round.
Ukr-Trident ( talk) 08:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I still think official CEC results should be used for this map, because that is what the Yushchenko/Yanukovych map used. Accoring to CEC the highest turnout increase was in Donetsk oblast with 18.56 percent increase.
I don't think any more detailed map than regions is needed, also the less detailed map is easier to compare to the Orange/Blue map.
-- Berkut 01:46, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Original Research false and misleading information see below.
Ukr-Trident (
talk)
08:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Much of the content of this page was moved to a different page ( Post-election developments in Ukraine, 2004) -- but I really think that most of it would be better off if it had been taken to Orange Revolution instead.
I also think that really more than a sentence is required in this article than simply "On December 3 the Supreme Court declared the results of the runoff election to be invalid". This is short as too be ludicrous.
How about something like the following structure:
What do you think about such a structure? Aris Katsaris 02:14, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I wonder if the country is best called "the Ukraine" or simply "Ukraine". I've seen both versions used in the past. Rickyrab 01:13, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The final vote in the revote was 52%-44%. I cannot find any report for what happened to the other 4%. Did people spoil their ballots, or vote for unauthorized candidates? -- M @ r ē ino 20:17, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Near the end of the article we have described the objections of the US and EU to the Ukrainian election. As no dates are given, it's hard to tell if these are objections to the first or second runoff election. If they are objections to the first one, could that be clarified? It would also be nice to have some followup responses to their reactions to the second election here. Wesley 17:15, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This article is written in a wierd, chronological manner. Sometimes past events are referred to as present (eg. "The United States government has also decided not to recognize the election" referring to the 2nd election, despite the fact that a 3rd election has already occurred.)
It is clear that the article was written like this, but someone should go through and update it to make it clear how things ended up happening. I'd do this, but I don't know much about the subject. 68.49.142.108 06:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Maybe we can remove the "noreference" sign already? There's mor then 5 sources linked. Ukrained 10:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Quote: "This led to a serious political crisis, widespread acts of civil disobedience, dubbed the "Orange Revolution","
Doesn't this term imply that the protestors we're doing something wrong or acting in a negative way. It just seems like slightly biased wording and should probably be replaced. 84.65.218.55 21:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Yup you can tell this is Russian Xenophoby at its best.
Hi. Regarding the table in that article: it is obviously mistaken. If you were really :) reading the article before adding the info, you should have noticed that Viktor Yanukovych (not Yuschenko) was declared the winner of the 2nd vote. That's why we started that revolution :)))). But your table states just opposite, indicating that Yuschenko came first. You (or somebody) must have been misplaced the numbers of two candidates. This mistake is so freaking obvious that you just shouldn't contradict :). So, please, don't take the issue as disputed (cause it's definitely not) and don't start edit war.
I'll check sources and you'd better check them too :). May be we shall solve the problem by adding some notice beneath the table. But please DO NOT remove the template. It, BTW, may be considered propaganda by our Muscovian friends. I mean Yuschenko has never been officially proclaimed winner of the second round of election. If we state that in table - we're kind of "rewriting history". You don't want that, do you? Best wishes, AlexPU 16:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Just in case, I'm a professional political analyst (although equipped with poor English) and immediate participant of that election campaign. AlexPU 16:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and thanks for your input to Ukraine-related articles. Best wishes. AlexPU 17:49, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This whole article should be removed due to its lack of references, incorrect choice of words and clear bias.
The most striking thing about this whole election, to me, is that the initial election was overturned by the Supreme Court of Ukraine, yet there's nothing about this in the article, just a brief note mentioning that it happened. Maybe someone knowledgeable about this affair could add something about how this works in Ukrainian law, what the Supreme Court vote was, what the reasons given by the judges were, whether or not international influence played a role in the judges' decision, etc.
Image:Viktor yushchenko.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I just spend more then an hour finding and adding references because a previous editor added citation needed-tags all over the article, although I am aware that wikipedia is a colleberal effort that does not mean that editors should let other editors do there work for them because other editors are to lazy to do there own research! The events of the Ukrainian presidential election, 2004 are well documented and several books (in (in English) are written about it. So it is not that hard to find references, I suggest every user in future tries to find references first before adding citation needed-tags. If you do not have the time, first make time and then add the references yourself before wasting time of and discretioning previous editors (making other editors look that they spread false information is in my view also POV-pushing). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:51, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the above map as it is not backed up the published data and the information is misleading. See http://www.cvk.gov.ua/vp2004/wp301-PT001F01=500.htm
eg. Donetsk
Voter turn out in comparison to registered list http://www.cvk.gov.ua/vp2004/wp301-PT001F01=500.htm
Donetsk 3,771,767 registered constituents 37,613,022 Total National list
Other regions of note include Crimea. Luhanst, Sevestopol
The data presented is misleading as it is incorrect and is without a clear explanation as to the basis of the calculations used and the dates that it applies to. Donetsk is most certainly is not 17% Ukr-Trident ( talk) 09:01, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
The article says that the first election was widely criticised as rigged by "international observers" but then only cites two American sources, one of which is a think-tank based in Washington D.C. I hardly think that they qualify as reliable independent sources.
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I have removed the weird maps some user had sprinkled the article with; the same maps appeared no less than five times. Worse, the articles were downright misleading. Instead of showing the strength of support for each candidate by region, as any reader would expect, they showed what proportion of each candidates total came from which region. That is rather irrelevant, and basically only shows population density. I hope good maps can be added to the article. Jeppiz ( talk) 21:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm assuming the 51.99 for Yushchenko and 44.20 for Yanukovych reflects the 3rd (final) "second round re-run" on 26 December 2004?
Do we have what the earlier percentages were for the first round (31 October 2004) and and second round (21 November 2004)?
I think we should list all 3 sets of data points to make it clear how much the %s shifted between these 3 points. LichCake ( talk) 04:06, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
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(Call me an embittered POV anti-US conspiracy theorist, if you like, but) this article seems distinctly POV (pro-OSCE) to me. I do hope people aren't losing interest in this as it fades into the past: this is about democracy; this is important. I think we ought at the very least to have a link to < http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=241\>. What do people think about its contents?
New developments should also be posted in the appropriate section at Current events. — Michael Z. 06:38, 2004 Nov 10 (UTC)
Related pages, which may need updating as events develop:
There are several articles online dealing with election inconsistencies, and the monitors from the OSCE and CIS countries. I may have time to get to this later, but if anyone would like to take a crack at starting an election corruption section that would be groovy. -- thames 17:57, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
There's a solid thread here tracing to a whole new wp article to outside involvement in general by foreign states in democratic elections.
There's enough leads here to go digging:
< http://talk.workunlimited.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html\>
and don't forget the big campaign by UK newspapers for UK citizens to write to US citizens and explain to them how they should vote.
There's real scope for a lot of digging about the corruption of the democratic process by foreign governments, as opposed to foreign citizens too. I hope that something on wiki comes up to point out that the Ukraine thing, even if it is wildly popular, isn't 100% grass roots.
anonymous, 8-12-04
Yushchenko's got an almost 20 point lead!
Over 10 thousands of supporters of Victor Youshchenko, the oposition presidential candidate, gather on the Independence Square in central Kiev. http://webcam.inter.ua/ru/640x480.html
By this time over 50 thousand people have gathered in the Independence Square. -- Steschke 12:22, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)
Hasn't the fact that their names are so similar caused any confusion at the polls?
To you them may seem similar but in Ukrainian the names start with different letters, so it's not that difficult to distunguish them.
Yushchenko = Ющенко
Yanukovych = Янукович
-- Berkut 03:53, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This Financial Times article talks about the ongoing power struggle: Yushchenko probes Kuchma regime, by Stefan Wagstyl and Tom Warner. It was deemed too POV to be linked from current events, but has some interesting information that I haven't seen elsewhere. Can anyone link to other articles in the same vein (I mean analytical, not POV). — Michael Z.
Isn't it truly bizarre to have only a picture from a demonstration of Yanukovich's supporters (rather than Yushenko's), when the true newspiece has been the (by all accounts) much more massive demonstrations of Yushenko's supporters, and Yanukovich's more limited demonstrations came only in response to those? Aris Katsaris 19:08, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Between the two rounds of the election, dramatic increases in turnout were recorded in Yanukovych-supporting regions, while Yushchenko-supporting regions recorded the same turnout or lower than recorded in the first round. This effect was most marked in eastern Ukraine and especially in Yanukovych's stronghold of Donetsk, where a turnout of 98.5% was claimed—more than 40% up from the first round. In some districts, turnout was claimed to be more than 100%, with one district claiming a 127% turnout.
Can whoever added that cite the source? I think results and numbers should be used from Centreal Election Comission (CEC) website http://www.cvk.gov.ua/wp333pt001f01=501 (Ukr). I know those results are not to be trusted, but they are only and most "official" results availbale.
I've made an image showing voter turnout by region.
-- Berkut 15:49, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
may refer to a specific raion or poll, rather than to an entire oblast. The quote is always vague. — Michael Z.
This map is misleading as it shows percentages in relation to the regional/Oblast and as such does not accurately reflect the distribution of the vote. Ukraine's Presidential election is a National electorate not regional. The map as presented does not take into account the fact that each region has significantly different number of constituents a ratio of 1 to 8.
Ukr-Trident (
talk)
08:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
If it is to be published then it should be accompanied by a disclaimer that highlights the distortion in the statistics presented. Unlike the other map there is no relationship shown between oblast/regions even though it gives an impression there is. If is to be published then it should be color graded using a single color and based on the variance of the total national vote not the percentage of each region as shown here in the 2010 Presidential election first round.
Ukr-Trident ( talk) 08:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I still think official CEC results should be used for this map, because that is what the Yushchenko/Yanukovych map used. Accoring to CEC the highest turnout increase was in Donetsk oblast with 18.56 percent increase.
I don't think any more detailed map than regions is needed, also the less detailed map is easier to compare to the Orange/Blue map.
-- Berkut 01:46, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Original Research false and misleading information see below.
Ukr-Trident (
talk)
08:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Much of the content of this page was moved to a different page ( Post-election developments in Ukraine, 2004) -- but I really think that most of it would be better off if it had been taken to Orange Revolution instead.
I also think that really more than a sentence is required in this article than simply "On December 3 the Supreme Court declared the results of the runoff election to be invalid". This is short as too be ludicrous.
How about something like the following structure:
What do you think about such a structure? Aris Katsaris 02:14, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I wonder if the country is best called "the Ukraine" or simply "Ukraine". I've seen both versions used in the past. Rickyrab 01:13, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The final vote in the revote was 52%-44%. I cannot find any report for what happened to the other 4%. Did people spoil their ballots, or vote for unauthorized candidates? -- M @ r ē ino 20:17, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Near the end of the article we have described the objections of the US and EU to the Ukrainian election. As no dates are given, it's hard to tell if these are objections to the first or second runoff election. If they are objections to the first one, could that be clarified? It would also be nice to have some followup responses to their reactions to the second election here. Wesley 17:15, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This article is written in a wierd, chronological manner. Sometimes past events are referred to as present (eg. "The United States government has also decided not to recognize the election" referring to the 2nd election, despite the fact that a 3rd election has already occurred.)
It is clear that the article was written like this, but someone should go through and update it to make it clear how things ended up happening. I'd do this, but I don't know much about the subject. 68.49.142.108 06:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Maybe we can remove the "noreference" sign already? There's mor then 5 sources linked. Ukrained 10:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Quote: "This led to a serious political crisis, widespread acts of civil disobedience, dubbed the "Orange Revolution","
Doesn't this term imply that the protestors we're doing something wrong or acting in a negative way. It just seems like slightly biased wording and should probably be replaced. 84.65.218.55 21:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Yup you can tell this is Russian Xenophoby at its best.
Hi. Regarding the table in that article: it is obviously mistaken. If you were really :) reading the article before adding the info, you should have noticed that Viktor Yanukovych (not Yuschenko) was declared the winner of the 2nd vote. That's why we started that revolution :)))). But your table states just opposite, indicating that Yuschenko came first. You (or somebody) must have been misplaced the numbers of two candidates. This mistake is so freaking obvious that you just shouldn't contradict :). So, please, don't take the issue as disputed (cause it's definitely not) and don't start edit war.
I'll check sources and you'd better check them too :). May be we shall solve the problem by adding some notice beneath the table. But please DO NOT remove the template. It, BTW, may be considered propaganda by our Muscovian friends. I mean Yuschenko has never been officially proclaimed winner of the second round of election. If we state that in table - we're kind of "rewriting history". You don't want that, do you? Best wishes, AlexPU 16:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Just in case, I'm a professional political analyst (although equipped with poor English) and immediate participant of that election campaign. AlexPU 16:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and thanks for your input to Ukraine-related articles. Best wishes. AlexPU 17:49, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This whole article should be removed due to its lack of references, incorrect choice of words and clear bias.
The most striking thing about this whole election, to me, is that the initial election was overturned by the Supreme Court of Ukraine, yet there's nothing about this in the article, just a brief note mentioning that it happened. Maybe someone knowledgeable about this affair could add something about how this works in Ukrainian law, what the Supreme Court vote was, what the reasons given by the judges were, whether or not international influence played a role in the judges' decision, etc.
Image:Viktor yushchenko.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I just spend more then an hour finding and adding references because a previous editor added citation needed-tags all over the article, although I am aware that wikipedia is a colleberal effort that does not mean that editors should let other editors do there work for them because other editors are to lazy to do there own research! The events of the Ukrainian presidential election, 2004 are well documented and several books (in (in English) are written about it. So it is not that hard to find references, I suggest every user in future tries to find references first before adding citation needed-tags. If you do not have the time, first make time and then add the references yourself before wasting time of and discretioning previous editors (making other editors look that they spread false information is in my view also POV-pushing). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:51, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the above map as it is not backed up the published data and the information is misleading. See http://www.cvk.gov.ua/vp2004/wp301-PT001F01=500.htm
eg. Donetsk
Voter turn out in comparison to registered list http://www.cvk.gov.ua/vp2004/wp301-PT001F01=500.htm
Donetsk 3,771,767 registered constituents 37,613,022 Total National list
Other regions of note include Crimea. Luhanst, Sevestopol
The data presented is misleading as it is incorrect and is without a clear explanation as to the basis of the calculations used and the dates that it applies to. Donetsk is most certainly is not 17% Ukr-Trident ( talk) 09:01, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
The article says that the first election was widely criticised as rigged by "international observers" but then only cites two American sources, one of which is a think-tank based in Washington D.C. I hardly think that they qualify as reliable independent sources.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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I have removed the weird maps some user had sprinkled the article with; the same maps appeared no less than five times. Worse, the articles were downright misleading. Instead of showing the strength of support for each candidate by region, as any reader would expect, they showed what proportion of each candidates total came from which region. That is rather irrelevant, and basically only shows population density. I hope good maps can be added to the article. Jeppiz ( talk) 21:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm assuming the 51.99 for Yushchenko and 44.20 for Yanukovych reflects the 3rd (final) "second round re-run" on 26 December 2004?
Do we have what the earlier percentages were for the first round (31 October 2004) and and second round (21 November 2004)?
I think we should list all 3 sets of data points to make it clear how much the %s shifted between these 3 points. LichCake ( talk) 04:06, 9 April 2023 (UTC)