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This article is far too vague and pretty much only gives a description to people who already know what it is. Clarifications should be made about what differentiates it from alternate history. In fact it cites the origin of the title translated as "Not as it was but what it might have been", which is literally an alternate version of history. The first Google result for 'uchronia' leads to a site called "Uchronia: The Alternate History List" - so unless you can explain better why it isn't alternate history, it should be merged. 205.250.211.218 ( talk) 04:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Would a better example be the films of Wes Anderson? Not quite present, not quite past? -- 202.0.15.173 ( talk) 07:41, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Stupid question, but if I replace 'topia/topos' with 'chronia/chronos', then surely it's not a portmanteau of utopia but a word chosen to resemble utopia. I'm sure there's a proper term for it but memory fails me at the moment. Phelyan 12:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
But see what you're saying, in the most literal and superficial sense it might appear that it's simply a case of the word using the same etymological pattern to express a similar but different idea, 'no time' (combining the Greek 'Ou'/no with 'Chronos'/time) as opposed to 'no place' (combining the Greek 'Ou'/no with 'Topos'/place), but I think the context and usage of the words shows that it is definitely a portmanteau, since it not only combines the forms of both elements but also the meanings; fiction concerning a society/culture that exists nowhere, which is specific to the meaning of utopia as coined by Thomas Moore, with that of time. Number36 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Shall I put the translation for the french I mention above in the article? The title of the book that originated the term, Uchronie (L'Utopie dans l'histoire). Esquisse historique apocryphe du développement de la civilisation européenne tel qu'il n'a pas été, tel qu'il aurait pu être. I think a good translation into English would be, Uchronia (A Utopia in history). An apocryphal historical outline of the development of European civilisation, not as it was as such, but as it could have been. It adds a little to have it I think, but I'm unsure if it would add enough as it were, to be worth putting it in, what does anyone else think? Number36 00:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
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I'm puzzled by the statement that "Tolkien's first three ages of Middle-earth may or may not be located in the same world as the modern Earth". Tolkien stated quite explicitly in the Prologue to LOTR: "Those days, the Third Age of Middle-earth, are now long past, and the shape of all the lands has been changed; but the regions in which the Hobbits then lived were doubtless the same as those in which they still linger: the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea." To claim that Tolkien's stories are not uchronia contradicts the explicit statement of the author that they are. I think this requires at least a citation.
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:05, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed the previous merge discussion above before being bold. Happy to talk though. It seems we have a poorly defined neologism that for all intents and purposes right now easily fits under Alternate history. A separate editor has tagged it under the impression that it is simply a new label being promoted without much actual sourcing. The only sources are an out-of-date website, the French primary source the word comes from, one credible academic source, and one reference to Philip K. Dick. Is there any reason to think this is notably different enough from alt-hist enough to warrant its own separate page? The lead section provides little evidence. Wolfdog ( talk) 19:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
an umbrella category comprising alternate history stories, parallel worlds stories, and tales involving “future uchronias”but then provides two textbook cases of alt-hist: The Man in the High Castle and The Handmaid's Tale. This is a fiction topic.
in contrast to alternative history, uchronia is not related to a historical event or any precise point in time. To be fair, it's an entire book about the fiction topic.
some other voices can help us move forward, and not at all a reflection of being convinced by your arguments. In the absence of a consensus there are numerous avenues open to you to solicit contributions from other editors; while I understand it can be frustrating when you don't get a reply at a talk page for an extended period, I think you're much more likely to succeed by using one of those routes than by trying to misrepresent the existing situation in your own favour. – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:41, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
an entire book about the fiction topic. Though I've only skimmed it, the book seems a lot more interested in considering ideas about time from philosophical and social-scientific perspectives. This is clear from the chapter summaries on pages 11 and 12 and the fact that only one fictional text (More's Utopia) is mentioned in the introduction. It's also why I quoted above her own description of her disciplinary background, which isn't at all a literary criticism one. This is probably worth clarifying as Schmid may be the only book-length study of the uchronia concept. – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:07, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 9 May 2020. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | Alternate History Start‑class ( inactive) | ||||||
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This article is far too vague and pretty much only gives a description to people who already know what it is. Clarifications should be made about what differentiates it from alternate history. In fact it cites the origin of the title translated as "Not as it was but what it might have been", which is literally an alternate version of history. The first Google result for 'uchronia' leads to a site called "Uchronia: The Alternate History List" - so unless you can explain better why it isn't alternate history, it should be merged. 205.250.211.218 ( talk) 04:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Would a better example be the films of Wes Anderson? Not quite present, not quite past? -- 202.0.15.173 ( talk) 07:41, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Stupid question, but if I replace 'topia/topos' with 'chronia/chronos', then surely it's not a portmanteau of utopia but a word chosen to resemble utopia. I'm sure there's a proper term for it but memory fails me at the moment. Phelyan 12:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
But see what you're saying, in the most literal and superficial sense it might appear that it's simply a case of the word using the same etymological pattern to express a similar but different idea, 'no time' (combining the Greek 'Ou'/no with 'Chronos'/time) as opposed to 'no place' (combining the Greek 'Ou'/no with 'Topos'/place), but I think the context and usage of the words shows that it is definitely a portmanteau, since it not only combines the forms of both elements but also the meanings; fiction concerning a society/culture that exists nowhere, which is specific to the meaning of utopia as coined by Thomas Moore, with that of time. Number36 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Shall I put the translation for the french I mention above in the article? The title of the book that originated the term, Uchronie (L'Utopie dans l'histoire). Esquisse historique apocryphe du développement de la civilisation européenne tel qu'il n'a pas été, tel qu'il aurait pu être. I think a good translation into English would be, Uchronia (A Utopia in history). An apocryphal historical outline of the development of European civilisation, not as it was as such, but as it could have been. It adds a little to have it I think, but I'm unsure if it would add enough as it were, to be worth putting it in, what does anyone else think? Number36 00:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:Middle-earth.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 06:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm puzzled by the statement that "Tolkien's first three ages of Middle-earth may or may not be located in the same world as the modern Earth". Tolkien stated quite explicitly in the Prologue to LOTR: "Those days, the Third Age of Middle-earth, are now long past, and the shape of all the lands has been changed; but the regions in which the Hobbits then lived were doubtless the same as those in which they still linger: the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea." To claim that Tolkien's stories are not uchronia contradicts the explicit statement of the author that they are. I think this requires at least a citation.
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:05, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed the previous merge discussion above before being bold. Happy to talk though. It seems we have a poorly defined neologism that for all intents and purposes right now easily fits under Alternate history. A separate editor has tagged it under the impression that it is simply a new label being promoted without much actual sourcing. The only sources are an out-of-date website, the French primary source the word comes from, one credible academic source, and one reference to Philip K. Dick. Is there any reason to think this is notably different enough from alt-hist enough to warrant its own separate page? The lead section provides little evidence. Wolfdog ( talk) 19:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
an umbrella category comprising alternate history stories, parallel worlds stories, and tales involving “future uchronias”but then provides two textbook cases of alt-hist: The Man in the High Castle and The Handmaid's Tale. This is a fiction topic.
in contrast to alternative history, uchronia is not related to a historical event or any precise point in time. To be fair, it's an entire book about the fiction topic.
some other voices can help us move forward, and not at all a reflection of being convinced by your arguments. In the absence of a consensus there are numerous avenues open to you to solicit contributions from other editors; while I understand it can be frustrating when you don't get a reply at a talk page for an extended period, I think you're much more likely to succeed by using one of those routes than by trying to misrepresent the existing situation in your own favour. – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:41, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
an entire book about the fiction topic. Though I've only skimmed it, the book seems a lot more interested in considering ideas about time from philosophical and social-scientific perspectives. This is clear from the chapter summaries on pages 11 and 12 and the fact that only one fictional text (More's Utopia) is mentioned in the introduction. It's also why I quoted above her own description of her disciplinary background, which isn't at all a literary criticism one. This is probably worth clarifying as Schmid may be the only book-length study of the uchronia concept. – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:07, 1 August 2023 (UTC)