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I've put citation needed and dubious – discuss tags on the word "incapacitated" in the Section 4: Declaration by vice president and cabinet members of president's inability section of this article, because the word does not occur in the amendment and is never substantiated anywhere in this wiki article. Softlavender ( talk) 03:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who is unable or unwillingsays the same thing as
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable or unwillingbut with more words, "incapacitated" and "unable" being synonyms. Levivich harass/ hound 03:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.
In the House debates of April 13, 1965, Representative Richard Poff said that Section 4 provides for two categories of cases: (1) when the President "by reason of some physical ailment or some sudden accident is unconscious or paralyzed and therefore unable to make or to communicate” a decision; and (2) "when the President, by reason of mental debility[,] is unable or unwilling to make any rational decision, including particularly the decision to stand aside."
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who, due to physical or mental incapacitation, is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.or something like that? Levivich harass/ hound 04:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 covers the most difficult cases of inability--when the president cannot or does not declare his own inability.
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3
the amendment itself is clear that it is the declaration by the VP et al which is the requirement, the actual status of the president is irrelevant
section 4 does not require that the president is "unable to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3", a president fully able to do so could still be declared unable
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who cannot or does not execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.or
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who, due to mental or physical incapacitation, cannot or does not execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.I don't think we should omit the most important part of Section 4, which is that a Section 4 declaration is a declaration that the president is incapacitated ("unable to discharge the powers and duties"). Section 4 addresses the situation of a president who can't or won't make the voluntary declaration because of inability; omitting that part seems to leave the sentence incomplete. Levivich harass/ hound 17:01, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of an unable president who cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3
president who, due to mental or physical incapacitation, cannot or does not execute, implying that the debility must not only make him unable to carry out his duties, but also that he won't declare because of that debility. I mean look, a president might know he's unable but refuse to declare just because he's a sociopathic criminal narcissist who puts his own needs above the country's. That seems impossible to believe, of course, and any president doing that would be far and away the worst president in history, but still the text needs to accommodate it. E Eng 00:00, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Well, we can't really take legislative history like this on its face, because we need an authoritative source to tell us what specific stuff qualifies as legislative intent. What Congressmen said is primary, even if quoted by Yale or Feerick; Yale's and Feerick's expert evaluations, however, are secondary. If you look at the material I inserted in recent days about the scope of "inability", you'll see I scrupulously stuck to statements Yale and Feerick make in their own voice, except where I used examples drawn from others, which I labeled as examples illustrating something Yale/Feerick said. E Eng 02:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable to discharge the powers and duties of the presidency, but cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.? I like it. Levivich harass/ hound 03:55, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there are no longer any surplus commas to take away.
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Wind, Sand and Stars ( tr. Lewis Galantière)
I wonder of there's some way we can soft-pedal the relentless catalog of presidential rectal exams. BTW, didn't Obama and Trump have colonoscopies? I mean, Trump's must have taken hours and hours, the man being such a giant asshole. E Eng 22:10, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
RE: Recent Edits Regarding Biden's Debate Performance and 25th Amendment Discussions**
Hi everyone,
I've noticed that my recent edits about Joe Biden's performance in the 2024 presidential debate and subsequent discussions of invoking the 25th Amendment are being repeatedly deleted. I believe this information is relevant and well-cited from reliable sources, including the Washington Examiner ([source 1]( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/senator-calls-for-cabinet-to-consider-invoking-25th-amendment), [source 2]( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-gop-calls-for-biden-removal-from-office-over-debate-performance)).
The debate performance raised significant public and political concerns about President Biden's cognitive abilities, which led to calls from some lawmakers to consider the 25th Amendment. This is a notable development and should be included in the article to provide a complete and balanced view of recent events.
I would appreciate it if we could discuss these changes here and reach a consensus. Wikipedia's core principle of neutrality means we should include all relevant information, regardless of political perspectives.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Best, 146.185.56.214 ( talk) 06:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|
This page has archives. Sections may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
I've put citation needed and dubious – discuss tags on the word "incapacitated" in the Section 4: Declaration by vice president and cabinet members of president's inability section of this article, because the word does not occur in the amendment and is never substantiated anywhere in this wiki article. Softlavender ( talk) 03:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who is unable or unwillingsays the same thing as
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable or unwillingbut with more words, "incapacitated" and "unable" being synonyms. Levivich harass/ hound 03:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.
In the House debates of April 13, 1965, Representative Richard Poff said that Section 4 provides for two categories of cases: (1) when the President "by reason of some physical ailment or some sudden accident is unconscious or paralyzed and therefore unable to make or to communicate” a decision; and (2) "when the President, by reason of mental debility[,] is unable or unwilling to make any rational decision, including particularly the decision to stand aside."
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who, due to physical or mental incapacitation, is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.or something like that? Levivich harass/ hound 04:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 covers the most difficult cases of inability--when the president cannot or does not declare his own inability.
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who is unable or unwilling to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3
the amendment itself is clear that it is the declaration by the VP et al which is the requirement, the actual status of the president is irrelevant
section 4 does not require that the president is "unable to execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3", a president fully able to do so could still be declared unable
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.
Section 4 addresses the case of an incapacitated president who cannot or does not execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.or
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who, due to mental or physical incapacitation, cannot or does not execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.I don't think we should omit the most important part of Section 4, which is that a Section 4 declaration is a declaration that the president is incapacitated ("unable to discharge the powers and duties"). Section 4 addresses the situation of a president who can't or won't make the voluntary declaration because of inability; omitting that part seems to leave the sentence incomplete. Levivich harass/ hound 17:01, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of an unable president who cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3
president who, due to mental or physical incapacitation, cannot or does not execute, implying that the debility must not only make him unable to carry out his duties, but also that he won't declare because of that debility. I mean look, a president might know he's unable but refuse to declare just because he's a sociopathic criminal narcissist who puts his own needs above the country's. That seems impossible to believe, of course, and any president doing that would be far and away the worst president in history, but still the text needs to accommodate it. E Eng 00:00, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Well, we can't really take legislative history like this on its face, because we need an authoritative source to tell us what specific stuff qualifies as legislative intent. What Congressmen said is primary, even if quoted by Yale or Feerick; Yale's and Feerick's expert evaluations, however, are secondary. If you look at the material I inserted in recent days about the scope of "inability", you'll see I scrupulously stuck to statements Yale and Feerick make in their own voice, except where I used examples drawn from others, which I labeled as examples illustrating something Yale/Feerick said. E Eng 02:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Section 4 addresses the case of a president who is unable to discharge the powers and duties of the presidency, but cannot, or does not, execute the voluntary declaration contemplated by Section 3.? I like it. Levivich harass/ hound 03:55, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there are no longer any surplus commas to take away.
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Wind, Sand and Stars ( tr. Lewis Galantière)
I wonder of there's some way we can soft-pedal the relentless catalog of presidential rectal exams. BTW, didn't Obama and Trump have colonoscopies? I mean, Trump's must have taken hours and hours, the man being such a giant asshole. E Eng 22:10, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
RE: Recent Edits Regarding Biden's Debate Performance and 25th Amendment Discussions**
Hi everyone,
I've noticed that my recent edits about Joe Biden's performance in the 2024 presidential debate and subsequent discussions of invoking the 25th Amendment are being repeatedly deleted. I believe this information is relevant and well-cited from reliable sources, including the Washington Examiner ([source 1]( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/senator-calls-for-cabinet-to-consider-invoking-25th-amendment), [source 2]( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-gop-calls-for-biden-removal-from-office-over-debate-performance)).
The debate performance raised significant public and political concerns about President Biden's cognitive abilities, which led to calls from some lawmakers to consider the 25th Amendment. This is a notable development and should be included in the article to provide a complete and balanced view of recent events.
I would appreciate it if we could discuss these changes here and reach a consensus. Wikipedia's core principle of neutrality means we should include all relevant information, regardless of political perspectives.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Best, 146.185.56.214 ( talk) 06:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)