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@ DaxServer@ Jayen466 About [1], I noticed the talkpage edithistory after I (re) added the template. Rant or not, it fits the template hand-in-glove. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:18, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Jayen466, FYI, this WP-article now also mentioned (in passing) in Swarajya (magazine), "Why Do I Not Trust Wikipedia, And You Should Not Either". I was about to add it at Wikipedia:Press coverage 2022, but blacklisted. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I have removed a multitude of sources from the article. Shall anybody wish to restore any of the source (and accompanying content), our policy on the onus of inclusion mandates of them to justify the reliability of the source at this t/p or at WP:RSN or at WT:INB. TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
That citation still exists in the reception section along with another from The Hindu; someone more competent than the original drafter, who understands how to paraphrase content, needs to use them and write the corresponding content.
This article is currently also being discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#An_interesting_lawsuit. -- Andreas JN 466 20:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Let's look at some of the recently deleted sources and passages. How about this one:
In 2017, Sinha filed a plea against Rahul Gandhi, then vice-president of the Congress Party, in the Delhi High Court, alleging Gandhi had violated the Special Protection Group Act and put himself in danger by giving his security detail the slip; the court refused to rule on the matter, saying security was a matter for the government. [1]
I believe that was adequately sourced; The Hindu is to be treated as a newspaper of record per WP:RSP. If this were an American writer, and the New York Times reported on an equivalent lawsuit in the U.S., I believe having that passage in the writer's bio would be uncontroversial. So, what do people think – should we restore it? -- Andreas JN 466 13:41, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
References
The following passage was recently deleted:
In 2016, Sinha acted as project advisor on the national #HaveaSafeJourney (#HASJ) awareness campaign, a joined road safety initiative by the Mahindra Truck and Bus Division and the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways. [1] This involved a writing contest for short stories related to road safety issues, which were published the following year as a book and promoted by Sinha. [2] Notable writers contributing stories to the project included Anand Neelakantan, Kiran Manral and Pankaj Dubey; Gadkari, as the Minister of Road Transport and Highways, provided the foreword. [3]
The sources were:
Note that the initiative and the associated short story collection were also covered elsewhere, e.g. in The Wire. Any objection to restoring this content? It seems adequately sourced. -- Andreas JN 466 12:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Mention of the court case has now been in and out of the article a few times.
When I originally added it, it was sourced to Lawbeat. [1] Yesterday, User:X-Editor inserted it using Sinha's own article [2] as the source. Overall, the following press articles have mentioned the dispute (listed in descending order of acceptance as a source in Wikipedia):
What do you think? Personally, based on overall media coverage of this case, I am leaning towards inclusion, with Sinha's own piece cited as an ancillary source (along with Newsbharati and/or Lawbeat).
At any rate, I think we should keep this list up to date and/or perhaps run an WP:RfC if we can't find agreement here. Regards, -- Andreas JN 466 10:30, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Another item removed from the article recently was this Metro Plus review of "22 yards" in The Hindu. As we are all agreed that The Hindu should be treated as a newspaper of record, surely we can add a brief summary of this to the Reception section. Would you like to propose something, TrangaBellam? Regards, Andreas JN 466 14:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
I can't really see any good reason why the review of Daddy in The New Indian Express was deleted: [3] Any objections to restoring some material based on this? -- Andreas JN 466 14:23, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
This is such a poorly written "review"! Just count the number of redflag and/or superlative claims in it that cry out for a citation needed tag: "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing", "moved away from his usual genre" (IIRC, in one of the earlier interviews you had linked to, Sinha had said that he intentionally tried to pen his first three books to be in different genres), "One of its kind", "first-of-its-kind book released in recent times" (what does that even mean?!), etc. Also the whole third paragraph is such a cliche-ridden over-generalization. Reads to me as a breathless fluff piece.
-- Andreas JN 466 18:43, 13 November 2022 (UTC)Well, his usual genre was fiction; this was his first non-fiction book. As for "One of its kind" etc. I took that to be referring to its being a book about parenting from an Indian dad's perspective. I agree with you that the diction sure is flowery and not what we'd expect to find in a UK or US paper, but that applies to much of what I read in Indian newspapers (not just the book reviews). So I am not sure what it means – beyond the fact that a woman who wrote hundreds of reviews for an RS newspaper appears to have liked the book and said so. I agree it should be used as a source for a reviewer's opinion on this book rather than as a source for more general factual claims of the type you mention ("inventing the genre").
[..] What really depressed me though was Shruti's fond endorsement of an arranged marriage for Sharad Malviya's daughter towards the end of the book. Is this the author's way of saying nothing changes, not even the mindset of a woman who's an icon for emancipation? When all's done and dusted, Shruti Ranjan is a woman who's lived life on her own terms, who's agreed to an arranged marriage only after a love affair goes sour, who's turned a traumatic rape into a political triumph, who's walked away from a failed marriage with very little regret. Yet she's still tied to the three men in her life with her happiness fluctuating in direct proportion to her relationship status. She defines herself by her men so strongly that the only thing that shakes her out of depression after Sharad Malviya's death is the need to support his daughter. So despite Sinha's obviously sincere attempt to get under the skin of the modern Indian woman, I'm left at the end wondering if the author, rather than his protagonist, has learnt any lessons.
Andreas' relevant summary is that the reviewer didn't care for [..] the apparent endorsement of an arranged marriage in the plot.
A perfect example of missing the forest for the tree :')
TrangaBellam (
talk)
17:05, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Looking at paraphrasing of reviews may be a good idea. The review of The Edge of Desire in The Hindu ends,
Still The Edge of Desire is worth at least one read to understand the quirks of fate, the machinations of politics and what a combustible combination the two can make.
TrangaBellam's summary of that passage is: she found the work to be a one-time-read
which to mind reads a little more dismissive than the original.
As for bemoaned the "absence of an able-bodied leadership" more than "giving voice to gender crimes"
, I think that part of the summary will leave most of our readers flummoxed. What does this even mean, bereft of context as it is there? I believe we can do better. --
Andreas
JN
466
18:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Per indiantelevision.com the TV film Phir Se, a RAPA Award winner in 2005, was based on a story by Sinha. I would like to add a mention of this fact to the article. Any views?
For reference, RAPA awards were a fixture of Indian radio and later also TV broadcasting for several decades, from the 1970s to the late 2000s. RAPA wins were/are routinely mentioned as a biographical detail of people active in that era, both in Indian newspapers and in books.
The fact that Phir se won the award almost two decades ago is also still mentioned on an extant page of tellychakkar.com. -- Andreas JN 466 10:56, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Is Meera Bhardwaj’s review, published in The New Indian Express, of the non-fiction book Daddy: The Birth of a Father suitable for the "Reception" section of the author's biography?
Previous discussions: on this talk page, at RS/N ( permalink) -- Andreas JN 466 23:00, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
I have nothing against positive reviews like Reshmi Kulkarni's take on Of Love and Politics but to use Bharadwaj is scraping the barrel esp. when we know the propensity of paid news in India. An essay found from WT:INB might be of further aid. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:31, 11 November 2022 (UTC)This is such a poorly written "review"! Just count the number of redflag and/or superlative claims in it that cry out for a citation needed tag: "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing", "moved away from his usual genre" (IIRC, in one of the earlier interviews you had linked to, Sinha had said that he intentionally tried to pen his first three books to be in different genres), "One of its kind", "first-of-its-kind book released in recent times" (what does that even mean?!), etc. Also the whole third paragraph is such a cliche-ridden over-generalization. Reads to me as a breathless fluff piece.
Reviewing Sinha's non-fiction book on childcare, Daddy (2015), The New Indian Express described it as "a very well-written book" for "new-generation fathers who share responsibilities and enable and empower their working wives", noting that the topic marked a departure for Sinha as an author "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing."
Andreas, I will prefer that all rebuts etc. be confined to this section to prevent the Survey section from spiraling into mile-long mutual bickering. TrangaBellam ( talk) 05:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
(Emphasis added.) Andreas JN 466 16:14, 14 November 2022 (UTC)I agree it should be used as a source for a reviewer's opinion on this book rather than as a source for more general factual claims of the type you mention ("inventing the genre").
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tuhin Sinha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
@ DaxServer@ Jayen466 About [1], I noticed the talkpage edithistory after I (re) added the template. Rant or not, it fits the template hand-in-glove. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:18, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Jayen466, FYI, this WP-article now also mentioned (in passing) in Swarajya (magazine), "Why Do I Not Trust Wikipedia, And You Should Not Either". I was about to add it at Wikipedia:Press coverage 2022, but blacklisted. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I have removed a multitude of sources from the article. Shall anybody wish to restore any of the source (and accompanying content), our policy on the onus of inclusion mandates of them to justify the reliability of the source at this t/p or at WP:RSN or at WT:INB. TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
That citation still exists in the reception section along with another from The Hindu; someone more competent than the original drafter, who understands how to paraphrase content, needs to use them and write the corresponding content.
This article is currently also being discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#An_interesting_lawsuit. -- Andreas JN 466 20:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Let's look at some of the recently deleted sources and passages. How about this one:
In 2017, Sinha filed a plea against Rahul Gandhi, then vice-president of the Congress Party, in the Delhi High Court, alleging Gandhi had violated the Special Protection Group Act and put himself in danger by giving his security detail the slip; the court refused to rule on the matter, saying security was a matter for the government. [1]
I believe that was adequately sourced; The Hindu is to be treated as a newspaper of record per WP:RSP. If this were an American writer, and the New York Times reported on an equivalent lawsuit in the U.S., I believe having that passage in the writer's bio would be uncontroversial. So, what do people think – should we restore it? -- Andreas JN 466 13:41, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
References
The following passage was recently deleted:
In 2016, Sinha acted as project advisor on the national #HaveaSafeJourney (#HASJ) awareness campaign, a joined road safety initiative by the Mahindra Truck and Bus Division and the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways. [1] This involved a writing contest for short stories related to road safety issues, which were published the following year as a book and promoted by Sinha. [2] Notable writers contributing stories to the project included Anand Neelakantan, Kiran Manral and Pankaj Dubey; Gadkari, as the Minister of Road Transport and Highways, provided the foreword. [3]
The sources were:
Note that the initiative and the associated short story collection were also covered elsewhere, e.g. in The Wire. Any objection to restoring this content? It seems adequately sourced. -- Andreas JN 466 12:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Mention of the court case has now been in and out of the article a few times.
When I originally added it, it was sourced to Lawbeat. [1] Yesterday, User:X-Editor inserted it using Sinha's own article [2] as the source. Overall, the following press articles have mentioned the dispute (listed in descending order of acceptance as a source in Wikipedia):
What do you think? Personally, based on overall media coverage of this case, I am leaning towards inclusion, with Sinha's own piece cited as an ancillary source (along with Newsbharati and/or Lawbeat).
At any rate, I think we should keep this list up to date and/or perhaps run an WP:RfC if we can't find agreement here. Regards, -- Andreas JN 466 10:30, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Another item removed from the article recently was this Metro Plus review of "22 yards" in The Hindu. As we are all agreed that The Hindu should be treated as a newspaper of record, surely we can add a brief summary of this to the Reception section. Would you like to propose something, TrangaBellam? Regards, Andreas JN 466 14:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
I can't really see any good reason why the review of Daddy in The New Indian Express was deleted: [3] Any objections to restoring some material based on this? -- Andreas JN 466 14:23, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
This is such a poorly written "review"! Just count the number of redflag and/or superlative claims in it that cry out for a citation needed tag: "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing", "moved away from his usual genre" (IIRC, in one of the earlier interviews you had linked to, Sinha had said that he intentionally tried to pen his first three books to be in different genres), "One of its kind", "first-of-its-kind book released in recent times" (what does that even mean?!), etc. Also the whole third paragraph is such a cliche-ridden over-generalization. Reads to me as a breathless fluff piece.
-- Andreas JN 466 18:43, 13 November 2022 (UTC)Well, his usual genre was fiction; this was his first non-fiction book. As for "One of its kind" etc. I took that to be referring to its being a book about parenting from an Indian dad's perspective. I agree with you that the diction sure is flowery and not what we'd expect to find in a UK or US paper, but that applies to much of what I read in Indian newspapers (not just the book reviews). So I am not sure what it means – beyond the fact that a woman who wrote hundreds of reviews for an RS newspaper appears to have liked the book and said so. I agree it should be used as a source for a reviewer's opinion on this book rather than as a source for more general factual claims of the type you mention ("inventing the genre").
[..] What really depressed me though was Shruti's fond endorsement of an arranged marriage for Sharad Malviya's daughter towards the end of the book. Is this the author's way of saying nothing changes, not even the mindset of a woman who's an icon for emancipation? When all's done and dusted, Shruti Ranjan is a woman who's lived life on her own terms, who's agreed to an arranged marriage only after a love affair goes sour, who's turned a traumatic rape into a political triumph, who's walked away from a failed marriage with very little regret. Yet she's still tied to the three men in her life with her happiness fluctuating in direct proportion to her relationship status. She defines herself by her men so strongly that the only thing that shakes her out of depression after Sharad Malviya's death is the need to support his daughter. So despite Sinha's obviously sincere attempt to get under the skin of the modern Indian woman, I'm left at the end wondering if the author, rather than his protagonist, has learnt any lessons.
Andreas' relevant summary is that the reviewer didn't care for [..] the apparent endorsement of an arranged marriage in the plot.
A perfect example of missing the forest for the tree :')
TrangaBellam (
talk)
17:05, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Looking at paraphrasing of reviews may be a good idea. The review of The Edge of Desire in The Hindu ends,
Still The Edge of Desire is worth at least one read to understand the quirks of fate, the machinations of politics and what a combustible combination the two can make.
TrangaBellam's summary of that passage is: she found the work to be a one-time-read
which to mind reads a little more dismissive than the original.
As for bemoaned the "absence of an able-bodied leadership" more than "giving voice to gender crimes"
, I think that part of the summary will leave most of our readers flummoxed. What does this even mean, bereft of context as it is there? I believe we can do better. --
Andreas
JN
466
18:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
Per indiantelevision.com the TV film Phir Se, a RAPA Award winner in 2005, was based on a story by Sinha. I would like to add a mention of this fact to the article. Any views?
For reference, RAPA awards were a fixture of Indian radio and later also TV broadcasting for several decades, from the 1970s to the late 2000s. RAPA wins were/are routinely mentioned as a biographical detail of people active in that era, both in Indian newspapers and in books.
The fact that Phir se won the award almost two decades ago is also still mentioned on an extant page of tellychakkar.com. -- Andreas JN 466 10:56, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Is Meera Bhardwaj’s review, published in The New Indian Express, of the non-fiction book Daddy: The Birth of a Father suitable for the "Reception" section of the author's biography?
Previous discussions: on this talk page, at RS/N ( permalink) -- Andreas JN 466 23:00, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
I have nothing against positive reviews like Reshmi Kulkarni's take on Of Love and Politics but to use Bharadwaj is scraping the barrel esp. when we know the propensity of paid news in India. An essay found from WT:INB might be of further aid. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:31, 11 November 2022 (UTC)This is such a poorly written "review"! Just count the number of redflag and/or superlative claims in it that cry out for a citation needed tag: "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing", "moved away from his usual genre" (IIRC, in one of the earlier interviews you had linked to, Sinha had said that he intentionally tried to pen his first three books to be in different genres), "One of its kind", "first-of-its-kind book released in recent times" (what does that even mean?!), etc. Also the whole third paragraph is such a cliche-ridden over-generalization. Reads to me as a breathless fluff piece.
Reviewing Sinha's non-fiction book on childcare, Daddy (2015), The New Indian Express described it as "a very well-written book" for "new-generation fathers who share responsibilities and enable and empower their working wives", noting that the topic marked a departure for Sinha as an author "credited with inventing the genre of political thrillers in contemporary Indian writing."
Andreas, I will prefer that all rebuts etc. be confined to this section to prevent the Survey section from spiraling into mile-long mutual bickering. TrangaBellam ( talk) 05:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
(Emphasis added.) Andreas JN 466 16:14, 14 November 2022 (UTC)I agree it should be used as a source for a reviewer's opinion on this book rather than as a source for more general factual claims of the type you mention ("inventing the genre").