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Wikipedia's article is currently titled “You're Sleeping, Nicole” but other sources give the English title as “You're Sleeping Nicole”:
At other film festivals in English-language areas, only the French title was used: similarly to the Michael Haneke film Amour, which was almost always called Amour in English, not Love. In particular, the official programme book of TIFF 2014 referred to the film only as Tu dors Nicole [1], and major media reporting followed suit [2] [3] . The Calgary International Film Festival apparently did the same although it gives an English translation (comma-less) [4]. It remains to be seen whether, on a US or UK release (particularly at film festivals, possibly DVD, Netflix, iTunes Store), the film is referred to by its French title exclusively, or by an English title but if the latter, it is very likely to be “You're Sleeping Nicole” without a comma. Mathew5000 ( talk) 18:16, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
As I noted above, at US film festivals in 2014 it played under the title Tu Dors Nicole. The New York Times review [11] refers to the film by that title, although it mentions in parentheses the English title "You're Sleeping Nicole" (no comma). At the Edinburgh IFF it is playing this month under the French title; the programme note [12] does not even mention the English translation of the title. This is enough, I think, to move the article. Mathew5000 ( talk) 05:06, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Bearcat has now made plenty of edits since the ping, so presumably has no strong objection to the move. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
You're Sleeping, Nicole → Tu dors Nicole – This is the US title. The Canadian title is kind of... unclear. Film Fan 18:54, 21 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 18:20, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
I note that this is reversing a previous move 22:37, 15 September 2014 Bearcat (talk | contribs | block) . . (53 bytes) (+53) . . (Bearcat moved page Tu dors Nicole to You're Sleeping, Nicole: WP:CANFRENCH: en: uses the title a film was released under in English with a redirect from the French), and that Bearcat is still an active editor but has not commented. But despite that and one oppose, I'd assess the above as a strong and valid consensus to move. Not doing so just to give Bearcat a brief chance to comment (a line call IMO and not worth a full relisting). Andrewa ( talk) 15:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Tu dors Nicole →
You're Sleeping Nicole – Although I didn't fight the prior move from the English title back to the French title several years ago (mainly because I didn't know about it at all until after it was closed, and by the time I did find out it was clear that opinion was too mixed to get it reverted without a bigger fight than I was prepared to invest in at the time), I now feel it's time to revisit this.
Firstly, the idea that "You're Sleeping Nicole" was just an informational translation of the French title, and not an actual official English title per se, doesn't wash at all, as its own production company explicitly lists it as
You're Sleeping Nicole on the English section of its own website — and lest anybody claim that that's still just a translation and not evidence of official title status, take a gander at how they fail to similarly "translate"
Monsieur Lazhar and
Incendies (both of which are films that very unequivocally went into English-language markets without altering their French-language original titles at all). Other than those two exceptions, right across the board the company's
English directory of films uses the original language poster regardless of whether it's in English or French, but then invariably displays an English-language title when you hover over any particular poster and/or click on it to see the film's actual profile, and this film is no exception: the hover title is "You're Sleeping Nicole", not "Tu dors Nicole". And for every film in that list but this, our article about the film is at the hover title.
Secondly, while it's true that media and film festival usage was mixed and inconsistent when this film was new, we're now almost seven years removed from its status as a going theatrical concern — so home video services now have to be seen as a much more authoritative guide to what its expected title is for an anglophone audience than old film festival catalogues. And surveying those options, if you have your language defaults set to English then this film is You're Sleeping Nicole on
AppleTV and iTunes,
Kanopy,
Google Play, the
Cineplex Store,
YouTube Movies and the
Microsoft Store, and even
Vudu goes with the double-barrelled Tu dors Nicole (You're Sleeping Nicole). It's also, for the record, listed as You're Sleeping Nicole on
Rotten Tomatoes, and the five people left on the planet who still buy BluRay discs also get the double-barrelled
You're Sleeping Nicole / Tu dors Nicole rather than just the French title alone. And while it's obviously true that you would see it as Tu dors Nicole on all of the same platforms if you set your language preference to French instead of English, that doesn't constitute evidence for what is or isn't the English title.
Finally, the idea that the original-language title should always take automatic precedence over any English alternative is not consistent with our rules for page titles — our rule is to look for the title most expected by an English language readership, not to privilege original titles as a first principle.
So for all of those reasons, I think it's quite clear that in a 2021 context, its English title is clearly You're Sleeping Nicole. That's the title that an English speaker is actually going to have to search for on streaming platforms if they expect to actually find it, so that's the title the article should have here.
Bearcat (
talk)
18:51, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wikipedia's article is currently titled “You're Sleeping, Nicole” but other sources give the English title as “You're Sleeping Nicole”:
At other film festivals in English-language areas, only the French title was used: similarly to the Michael Haneke film Amour, which was almost always called Amour in English, not Love. In particular, the official programme book of TIFF 2014 referred to the film only as Tu dors Nicole [1], and major media reporting followed suit [2] [3] . The Calgary International Film Festival apparently did the same although it gives an English translation (comma-less) [4]. It remains to be seen whether, on a US or UK release (particularly at film festivals, possibly DVD, Netflix, iTunes Store), the film is referred to by its French title exclusively, or by an English title but if the latter, it is very likely to be “You're Sleeping Nicole” without a comma. Mathew5000 ( talk) 18:16, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
As I noted above, at US film festivals in 2014 it played under the title Tu Dors Nicole. The New York Times review [11] refers to the film by that title, although it mentions in parentheses the English title "You're Sleeping Nicole" (no comma). At the Edinburgh IFF it is playing this month under the French title; the programme note [12] does not even mention the English translation of the title. This is enough, I think, to move the article. Mathew5000 ( talk) 05:06, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Bearcat has now made plenty of edits since the ping, so presumably has no strong objection to the move. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
You're Sleeping, Nicole → Tu dors Nicole – This is the US title. The Canadian title is kind of... unclear. Film Fan 18:54, 21 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 18:20, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
I note that this is reversing a previous move 22:37, 15 September 2014 Bearcat (talk | contribs | block) . . (53 bytes) (+53) . . (Bearcat moved page Tu dors Nicole to You're Sleeping, Nicole: WP:CANFRENCH: en: uses the title a film was released under in English with a redirect from the French), and that Bearcat is still an active editor but has not commented. But despite that and one oppose, I'd assess the above as a strong and valid consensus to move. Not doing so just to give Bearcat a brief chance to comment (a line call IMO and not worth a full relisting). Andrewa ( talk) 15:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Tu dors Nicole →
You're Sleeping Nicole – Although I didn't fight the prior move from the English title back to the French title several years ago (mainly because I didn't know about it at all until after it was closed, and by the time I did find out it was clear that opinion was too mixed to get it reverted without a bigger fight than I was prepared to invest in at the time), I now feel it's time to revisit this.
Firstly, the idea that "You're Sleeping Nicole" was just an informational translation of the French title, and not an actual official English title per se, doesn't wash at all, as its own production company explicitly lists it as
You're Sleeping Nicole on the English section of its own website — and lest anybody claim that that's still just a translation and not evidence of official title status, take a gander at how they fail to similarly "translate"
Monsieur Lazhar and
Incendies (both of which are films that very unequivocally went into English-language markets without altering their French-language original titles at all). Other than those two exceptions, right across the board the company's
English directory of films uses the original language poster regardless of whether it's in English or French, but then invariably displays an English-language title when you hover over any particular poster and/or click on it to see the film's actual profile, and this film is no exception: the hover title is "You're Sleeping Nicole", not "Tu dors Nicole". And for every film in that list but this, our article about the film is at the hover title.
Secondly, while it's true that media and film festival usage was mixed and inconsistent when this film was new, we're now almost seven years removed from its status as a going theatrical concern — so home video services now have to be seen as a much more authoritative guide to what its expected title is for an anglophone audience than old film festival catalogues. And surveying those options, if you have your language defaults set to English then this film is You're Sleeping Nicole on
AppleTV and iTunes,
Kanopy,
Google Play, the
Cineplex Store,
YouTube Movies and the
Microsoft Store, and even
Vudu goes with the double-barrelled Tu dors Nicole (You're Sleeping Nicole). It's also, for the record, listed as You're Sleeping Nicole on
Rotten Tomatoes, and the five people left on the planet who still buy BluRay discs also get the double-barrelled
You're Sleeping Nicole / Tu dors Nicole rather than just the French title alone. And while it's obviously true that you would see it as Tu dors Nicole on all of the same platforms if you set your language preference to French instead of English, that doesn't constitute evidence for what is or isn't the English title.
Finally, the idea that the original-language title should always take automatic precedence over any English alternative is not consistent with our rules for page titles — our rule is to look for the title most expected by an English language readership, not to privilege original titles as a first principle.
So for all of those reasons, I think it's quite clear that in a 2021 context, its English title is clearly You're Sleeping Nicole. That's the title that an English speaker is actually going to have to search for on streaming platforms if they expect to actually find it, so that's the title the article should have here.
Bearcat (
talk)
18:51, 17 February 2021 (UTC)