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I've had a go at rephrasing the definition of transgender in the first sentence of the lead section to that it is both rigorous and as neutral as possible:
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that contradicts what would be presumed from the
sex assigned at birth.
Lmatt (
talk)
22:43, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Second attempt:
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that differs from the gender presumed from a person's
sex assignment at birth.
Lmatt ( talk) 23:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken I think this second version makes more sense.
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that contradicts the gender presumed from the
sex assigned to a person at birth.
Lmatt ( talk) 23:53, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
My last go at this:
Transgender is a
gender identity or
gender expression of a person that is incongruent with the gender culturally associated with their
assigned sex.
Lmatt (
talk)
02:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
There seems to be a push from activists for transgender individuals to be considered as have been transgender even before they came out as TG. This raises questions for us here on WP, for example, with female to male transgender person Cidny Bullens. As "Cindy" they for example, sung It's Raining on Prom Night for the movie Grease. Now that song's lyrics are clearly written from the perspective of a CISGENDER FEMALE prom dance attendee and was sung by Bullens when they identified as a young woman, so writing that a man was singing that song is pretty damn awkward. Paul Benjamin Austin ( talk) 14:47, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi everyone! Transgender pages need to be more specific about cross-dressing. Being transgender is not a cross-dresser. This has been cited numerous times, see the reference from the Human Rights Campaign: https://www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-faq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Physpkg ( talk • contribs) 19:30, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
Being transgender is not a cross-dresser. This has been cited numerous times,
———––––––––––––––––
The source that's cited on the page [10] added cross-dressing as falling under "transgender" simply as a means of producing better statistics for the study they were performing. In other words, cross-dressers were included to produce statistically better results. I'm thinking it's more accurate to state that cross-dressing is not necessarily the same thing as being transgender. While some folks do cross-dress before they come out, saying it's the same thing is inaccurate and feeds into the trope of "man in a dress" that so many hate groups like to press, as a means of spreading misinformation regarding trans people. Physpkg ( talk) 12:35, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User
Lmatt has
proposed many different ways in the past view days to write the lead section that merits formal RfC style discussion. As this is a sensitive topic, it is best to get consensus on how to write the lead sentence. The original wording reads Transgender people have a
gender identity or
gender expression that differs from their
assigned sex.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that contradicts what would be presumed from the sex assigned at birth.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that differs from the gender presumed from a person's sex assignment at birth.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that contradicts the gender presumed from the sex assigned to a person at birth.
Transgender is a gender identity or gender expression of a person that is incongruent with the gender culturally associated with their assigned sex.
Transgender individuals have a gender identity and/or gender expression that is not culturally associated with their assigned gender or sex.(proposed by Gwenhope)
Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their sex assigned at birth.
Please list your preferred option(s) below or feel free to propose a new option. Gwen Hope ( talk) ( contrib) 18:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Note: MattMauler placed a neutral notification at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies on 18:32, 13 September 2019 (UTC). -- MarioGom ( talk) 08:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Option 0 is concise, accurate, broadly understandable, and clean of politicized and jargonistic language contortion.
—
AReaderOutThataway
t/
c
23:26, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Transgender individuals have a gender identity different from the sex or gender they were assigned.Gwen Hope ( talk) ( contrib) 21:22, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Comment: Reverted Lmatt while this RfC is going on. Lmatt, do not change that lead sentence again while this RfC is going on. You were asked to stop in the edit history, above, and your talk page. So stop, and wait for the RfC to finish. Followup note here. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:03, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Kolya Butternut ( talk) 11:05, 15 September 2019 (UTC)Simple and multiple discriminant functions using mid-shaft femoral circumference for the determination of sex were used to test a sexing method recently proposed by Black. The method was able to correctly assign sex for 82% of the sample, which consisted of 115 North American White femora of verified age and sex. Circumference proved as accurate as any other criteria that have been used in sexing the femur. [1]
This RfC may partly rely on terminology in the article Sex assignment, which appears to be unsourced (although the terms are clearly commonly used). Kolya Butternut ( talk) 01:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
The source cited [10] is discussing the methodology used in the paper to get more meaningful statistics, because of the inherent difficulty of performing a survey on the transgender population. In other words, the citation itself reinforces the idea cross dressing is not the same as being trans. You need to read the study to get this concept, not just cherry-pick the words. Physpkg ( talk) 23:01, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
The reference used [10] is not talking about defining “transgender,” but discusses the methodology used in the survey to produce adequate statistics. They included cross-dressers to help cast a wider net. Physpkg ( talk) 12:24, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: Did you mean to remove both the HuffPost and HowStuffWorks source from the drag section? [2] I agree that the Bilerco source wasn't very good, but the HuffPost and HowStuffWorks sources weren't half bad as far as I could tell. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 20:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
With regard to this edit, I'm not trying to grandstand, but to my knowledge, "male" and "female" is usually used to refer to sex, not to gender, so I'm a bit confused about why it's used for describing gender identity? Wouldn't something like "man" and "woman" be more appropriate, when describing genders? -- Metalindustrien ( talk) 13:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm happy to see the evolution of the #Evolution of transgender terminology section, which is nicely expanded and referenced. That said, enough time has elapsed, that I think we can step back and take another look at the organization of the first few sections of the article. Looking at the first three sections, "Evolution", " #Transsexual and its relationship to transgender", and " #Other categories", these are mostly, or entirely, about terminology. Note that this also encompasses the first paragraph of #LGBT community, which discusses identity, orientation, androphilia, gynephilia, et cetera. I'm thus proposing the following reorganization of the Terminology section:
Possibly a new subsection for the more technical terms, or at least, the unfamiliar ones to the unitiated (AMAB, cisgender, etc.). Possibly a subsection on style and cultural aspects (noun vs adj; transgender vs *-ed; do we deal with cultural aspects, e.g., pronoun choice, informal speech, deadnaming, slurs, etc. here? Or maybe that's "style and culture" and not "terminology"?
The part I'm least certain of, is what happens to the content of the five paragraphs currently in the "Evolution" section? I'm not proposing removing a word of it, as I think it's all good content; I'm just wondering if it should be left exactly as is, where it is, and connected, or maybe move some of the paragraphs down to the other sections, and rewrite "Evolution" as a "summary", introducing the whole section? In a way, all three sections (plus a bit of the 4th) are about "evolution of transgender terminology".
The named sections are about 24% of the total byte count, but for an article like this where terminology is paramount and fast-moving, I think that's probably okay. It doesn't escape my notice that Transgender terminology could, and probably should, be a stand-alone article; but in the meantime, this re-org would be an improvement, imho. I may mock something up and include it here later, or just boldly take stab at it, but I'd prefer to hear some of your thoughts, first.
P.S. In case it wasn't clear: This is only about organizational improvement: possible changes to section titles, new subsection titles, and reshuffling existing text; no text changes other than smoothing out segues of moved text, or briefly summarizing existing text if needed. Mathglot ( talk) 22:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Transgender has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change from:
In the United States, a federal bill to protect workers from discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, has stalled and failed several times over the past two decades. [1] Individual states and cities have begun passing their own non-discrimination ordinances. In New York, for example, Governor David Paterson signed into law New York's first statute to include transgender protections in September 2010. [2]
Change to:
In the United States, a federal bill to protect workers from discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, has stalled and failed several times over the past two decades. [3] Individual states and cities have begun passing their own non-discrimination ordinances. In New York, for example, Governor David Paterson signed into law New York's first statute to include transgender protections in September 2010. [4] In 2019, 16 health care organizations filed a joint friend-of-the-court brief in three Title VII cases, urging the Supreme Court of the United States to rule in favor of protecting transgender individuals from employment discrimination to ensure their physical and mental health. [5] Fishmanconsult ( talk) 19:38, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
References
Howdy hello! I have replaced the lead image with a more diverse collage. From a photo quality standpoint, File:Woman looking out window (cropped).jpg is not particularly well taken. The exposure is blown out by the window, its shadowed, and poorly lit. It also doesn't particularly convey the diversity of trans folks. All in all, not a great lead image. I have replaced it with File:Transgender people collage.jpg, and moved the current lead image down. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 18:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
the previous image was of an individual not so described. Mathglot appears to be right. On Commons, it's not included under any categories for depicting transgender people.
What is transgender activists' view on pre-teen cisgender females who want puberty blocking drugs? PAustin4thApril1980 ( talk) 07:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
why isn't there any sort of criticism or contrast in this article? this is a controversial topic and it is intensely anglocentric to just present it in a "this is confirmed thing that exists and this is definitely how it is" way without trying to toe the line and offer a counterpoint at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.55.51 ( talk) 18:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm confused at the wording "transgender and transsexual" throughout the article. Transsexual isn't a commonly used term anymore compared to transgender (at least within trans groups), and promotes a mindset that trans people must sexually transition to be acceptable.
Another complaint is conflation of transgender with transvestite/crossdressing. These are not the same thing and have never been. Transgender people are a gender they weren't assigned at birth. Crossdressers are people who dress in clothes not traditionally worn by their gender. These are not the same, and not mutually exclusive either. SAMSMILE4 ( talk) 21:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
I can find the second one right now: in "Other Categories" it lists crossdressing and drag alongside nonbinary. These shouldn't be relevant to an article about transgender people. SAMSMILE4 ( talk) 21:31, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
There is a shadow over the person and you can barely see their face. We need to find a better image of transgender people(s) to have there. I don't care what it is as long as it is not what it currently is. The current one does not quickly say that you are on the right page. 101.98.135.42 ( talk) 11:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
01:15, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
01:45, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
05:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
00:36, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
There is a shadow over the person and you can barely see their face.
As the person who uploaded and selected
that image, I just wanted to note that this was an intentional choice on my part. I thought her face being in shadow helped 'universalize' the image and made it feel like it wasn't just representing one specific person. It was also an intentional choice to pick a 'boring' image, for lack of a better term. I thought something 'everyday' would be better than a picture from a pride parade or the like.
In any case, I am sympathetic to the argument that no individual person could stand in for such a broad group of people. So I am not opposed to the current lead image of the trans pride flag.
WanderingWanda (
talk)
22:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
We should edit protect this page, because of vandalism. If it’s being editing (positively) a lot then no IgnoredCelery ( talk) 21:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello, the article does not explain properly the terminology to describe the sexual orientation applied to transgender people.
What's the terminology for each? -- 179.26.106.149 ( talk) 20:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Removed "Being transgender is independent of sexual orientation" after reviewing the sources and finding they a) weren't even in the ball park for supporting such an obviously suspect and bold statement and b) that they didn even address transgender and sexual orientation at all. It would be very noteworthy if such obviously related phenomena were in fact independent so if you have anything like a reliable source supporting that please put it back with that source. This is obviously somebody pushing that view and scraping the barrel for support assuming nobody will notice that it in fact says nothing remotely like that transgender is independent of sexual orientation.
Here is what you need to put "Being transgender is independent of sexual orientation." in the lede as a flat fact like that: A reference to peer reviewed scientific studies or at least a single one of them that establishes that being transgender is independent of sexual orientation. One that even addressed the topic will be a start in that search.
Here is the kind of statement of bold, self evident fact of that nature you might make: "Gender dysphoria and sexual orientation are distinct phenomena." This only requires clarity of thought as they are in fact obviously distinct, non synonymous, as the rest of the lede makes clear. The thing redacted was the diametric opposite of this.
Finally, if in fact being transgender were independent of sexual orientation, this would imply that there is something on a par with sexual orientation that does in fact determine being transgender/gender identity, similar to the various determinants of sexual orientation which would be a very very interesting scientific inquiry, thing to be found out in detail. The absence of even studies looking for a factor or factors different from those determining sexual orientation determining gender identity would be negative support that the attempted assertion isn't even taken as worthy of investigation, being on the face of it false. Lycurgus ( talk) 06:59, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Gender identity and sexual orientation are different facets of identity. Everyone has a gender identity and a sexual orientation, but a person’s gender does not determine a person’s sexual orientation. Transgender people may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or none of the above.We aren't saying there is no correlation whatsoever, there could be some correlation, but the point is that gender is not indicative of sexuality. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 19:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Would using the word distinct instead of independent be OK with everyone? It is the word used in the CDC source so it is supported. Rab V ( talk) 20:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Though the citation in the Lead was a bad reference, the statement is absolutely correct. Statements in a Lead do not need to be supported by sources as they simply should reflect the body of the article. Better sources can easily be found for the relevant section too. ~ BOD ~ TALK 22:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Kaldari, if you have a female partner and you are female then you are a homosexual, that is to say a person of a sex whose orientation is toward that sex, assuming by "partner" you meant "sexual partner" rather than other kinds such as biz. This is the flat fact and direct implication from the coherent use of language, regardless of your or the partner females gender style choices. Similarly, being 'independent' and 'distinct' are different relations that can obtain between 2 things. Lycurgus ( talk) 21:13, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I have been here a lot longer than you, indeed. Newimpartial ( talk) 16:38, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Um, no. I'm not sure this is the place for this discussion, but I do live within an objective culture-wide common frame of reference
, and according to that frame of reference, sex and gender represent two distinct things each of which is "universal" with respect to that frame of reference (although each term is nuanced, even polyvalent, depending on context). And within this reality, the OED definition to which you refer, where gender expesses
sex, is of historical but not contemporary relevance. I live in Canada, and the objective
social and legal institutions here distinguish sex from gender when it comes to demography and national statistics, legal rights and discrimination, citizenship, social services and health care, to name only a few domains. In none of these instances is gender understood to express
sex, but nevertheless each term does have a universal
denotation that is then nuanced. So, for example, our human rights law protects against discrimination based on gender identity and gender expression, two different nuances within the broader concept of gender (and distinct from sexual orientation, which is also protected).
This is my reality, and the idea that it is somehow factional
seems more than a bit bizarre to me. Our laws and institutions are not PC sources
, they are objective social phenomena.
Newimpartial (
talk)
17:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
a human being that was born one sex and has had plastic surgery and hormone therapyto appear otherwise would see a person who was assigned one sex at birth but who has taken steps to present themselves to others in line with their gender identity. This is what the reliable, impartial science on the subject tell us. Wikipedia's articles on these topics are not
subjectiveor
PC; they are based on the best available reliable sources on each subject. The ideas that certain aspects of physiology are more
objectivethan others, or are more
impartialthan the rules state organizations make to determine legal gender, are just bizarre to me. According to the reliable sources, physiological sex does not
implya gender identity except for cis people, so your desire to write off the conclusions of researchers and the practices of governments as
social justice perspectivessuggest the opposite of impartiality: in fact the desire to buttress a rather specific,
subjectivePOV that is rapidly becoming WP:FRINGE. Newimpartial ( talk) 18:26, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
The dictionary states "denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex." - does that mean someone who does not personally identify anything (and they were designated a sex at birth by a doctor) is transgender by default? This question is centred around "personal identity" which not everyone has. ZhuLien ( talk) 10:17, 28 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.17.129.186 ( talk)
(This might actually be an issue with my understanding, or the other article I reference below, as opposed to this one.)
This article leads with "Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth."
The article on gender variance leads with "Gender variance, or gender nonconformity, is behavior or gender expression by an individual that does not match masculine or feminine gender norms." It then notes "being a stay-at-home father" as an example of gender variation. ( /info/en/?search=Gender_variance#Social_status_for_men_vs._women)
If "transgender" includes stay at home fathers or people merely who don't rigidly conform to gender norms/roles, it seems very very broad? So broad that most people (in western countries anyway) would be "transgender" by this definition?
Apologies if i've missed something! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.224.141.151 ( talk) 08:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Hair Fairies (people). The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Hair Fairies (people) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs)
02:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Transgendered (Male-Bodied). The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Transgendered (Male-Bodied) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs)
02:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
There must be some error or unexplained context in the passage (under 'scientific studies') claiming that 'One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that 33% of identical twin pairs were both trans, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins who were raised in the same family at the same time'. Taken at face value, this would mean that at least a third of all identical twins were trans, which is obviously untrue. (Even the figure of 2.6% for non-identical twins is probably too high.) I don't know what the study really claimed to show. I guess that the study was confined to twin pairs in which at least one individual was trans. But someone who has access to the study should check the context and edit the passage as necessary. Incidentally, 'identical twins' is not a scientific term and it should be clarified as 'monozygotic'. 2A00:23C8:7906:1301:284D:A998:D69B:989D ( talk) 20:21, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
I think that perhaps a good image for the lead would be a "transition timeline" - pictures of someone before and after they transitioned. Trans people don't look inherently different from cis people, so a more apt comparison is before/after for the same person. Thoughts? Elliot321 ( talk | contribs) 22:30, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
Why was my contribution deleted? Where is your Wikipedia's neutrality? -- Riccardo Riccioni ( talk) 10:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledgeand
Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.The Boston Globe is generally considered reliable, as it has a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. If you have a reliable, secondary source to support your addition (or a primary one which does not require interpretation) it would be welcome, either here or at transgender people and religion, the page that Elli linked to (depending on how much detail you go into). Srey Sros talk 06:28, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
“ in addition to including people whose gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (trans men and trans women), it may include people who are not exclusively masculine or feminine (people who are non-binary or genderqueer, including bigender, pangender, genderfluid, or agender).”
I have some issues with this sentence. How it’s written, you can be non-binary and be exclusively feminine. You can also be a masculine trans woman.
I think the wording needs to be edited. CycoMa ( talk) 02:49, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
...it may include people who are not exclusively men or women(as opposed to masculine or feminine)? Of course, this all really comes down to what the sources say, which I haven't checked. ezlev tlk
Isn’t the whole point in being transgender about identifying outside of birth sex. Masculine for example literally means “ having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men.”
There is such thing as trans women who are extremely masculine, there are even trans women who look like men.
There is also such thing as masculine cis women.
Gender identity isn’t about appearance or characteristics.
So I think the sentence should be changed to something along the lines of. “There are individuals who don’t exclusively identify as male or female.”
CycoMa ( talk) 03:53, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
As a matter of fact there is such thing as masculine non-binary people too. CycoMa ( talk) 04:23, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Gender Roamer: Personally, I prefer having shortened to "trans" in the first sentence, that's the standard way we do our first sentences and it helps with dismabiguation. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 21:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
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Transgender has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The umbrella term “trans” does not include cross dressing people. It is a term for transexuals, transgenders and non-binary people. The Enby Gremlin ( talk) 07:52, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
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I request that added to transgender that no survey has ever been conducted to see if those who have had their sex legally changed are okay being labelled transgender. Also the legality and constitutionality of the word transgender has never been established on the grounds of whether it violates the full faith and credit clause rights of a transsexual that has obtained a change of sex. As a Massachusetts born person when questioned about it both Governor Charlie Bakers Office and the Framingham department of vital statistics stated that no one may refer to me as transgender based on my no longer legal sex without my consent. Also to do so could be considered a violation of all fifty states laws concerning the legal practice of psychology on an individual without their consent. Transgender activist may wish to note this to avoid legal actions against them. 67.136.4.196 ( talk) 18:02, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
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Transgender has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Clinicians are not informing parents of future legal rights loss of children who obtain legal change of sex via the use of the word transgender and that their child will forever be seen ad part of the lgbt movement and subject to its whims! 67.136.4.196 ( talk) 18:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
the lgbt movementand
its whims(or about anything else). Please either submit a clear edit request supported by reliable sources or stop submitting edit requests. ezlev tlk
Excusez-moi mais ce mot n'est plus à utiliser. Il désigné autrefois une maladie mentale pour caractérisé les personnes ne sentant pas en accord avec leur genre attribué à la naissance et donc par conséquent leur sexe, le fait ou non de faire une opération pour changer de sexe ne change pas le nom, c'est transgenre et c'est tout. 5.252.63.158 ( talk) 14:25, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
It is a common slur to say that trans people are transvestites or cross-dressers. The "reliable source" given to defame us in this way (and in the opening paragraph, no less), is flimsy at best and is, as I have said, repeating a slur against us. Surely Wikipedia is better than this?
Please just remove the sentence, as it is not true, is a defamatory slur, and is hurtful to us, the subject matter of this article.
Please remove this as a matter of urgency, as you are actively hurting people with this article. 49.184.213.214 ( talk)— Preceding undated comment added 07:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
It is a common slur to say that trans people are transvestites or cross-dressers, and needs to be removed asap. The so-called "reliable source" given to defame us in this way (and in the opening paragraph if this article, no less), is flimsy at best and is, as I have said, repeating a slur against us. Surely Wikipedia is better than this?
Please just remove the sentence, as:
1) it is not true,
2) it is a defamatory slur, and
3) it is hurtful to us, the subject matter of this article.
Please remove this as a matter of urgency, as you are actively hurting people with this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by an IP editor 07:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
The term transgender may be defined very broadly to include cross-dressers, that's sourced to this paper published in 2013 in the journal LGBT Health. Specifically, this paragraph:
Eligibility criteria for the survey were: (1) being age 18 or older; (2) voluntarily agreeing to complete the survey; and (3) identifying as transgender. Transgender was defined broadly to cover those who transition from one gender to another as well as those who may not choose to socially, medically, or legally fully transition, including cross-dressers, people who consider themselves to be genderqueer, androgynous, and those whose gender nonconformity is a part of their identity. Inclusive language regarding gender nonconforming was used to ensure broad participation.
I think you should change "Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth." to "Transgender people identify as a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth." Wikipedia has always been neutral, and I think this edit would better reflect that and remain consistent with it's generally neutral view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abider445 ( talk • contribs) 16:37, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Why does it say transgender people are individuals who have a different gender expression from their assigned sex? Isn't gender expression about behaviors.
Just because a woman decides to behave in a way that's traditionally viewed as manly doesn't mean she's a transman. CycoMa ( talk) 01:08, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
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Transgender has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Replace Transgender people may identify as heterosexual (straight), homosexual (gay), bisexual, asexual, or otherwise, or may decline to label their sexual orientation. To Transgender people may identify as heterosexual (straight), homosexual (gay or lesbian), bisexual, asexual, or otherwise, or may decline to label their sexual orientation.
As gay is mostly used for males while transgender women often use lesbian like non transgender women do 71.241.216.97 ( talk) 00:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I've had a go at rephrasing the definition of transgender in the first sentence of the lead section to that it is both rigorous and as neutral as possible:
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that contradicts what would be presumed from the
sex assigned at birth.
Lmatt (
talk)
22:43, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Second attempt:
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that differs from the gender presumed from a person's
sex assignment at birth.
Lmatt ( talk) 23:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken I think this second version makes more sense.
Transgender is a human
gender identity or
gender expression that contradicts the gender presumed from the
sex assigned to a person at birth.
Lmatt ( talk) 23:53, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
My last go at this:
Transgender is a
gender identity or
gender expression of a person that is incongruent with the gender culturally associated with their
assigned sex.
Lmatt (
talk)
02:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
There seems to be a push from activists for transgender individuals to be considered as have been transgender even before they came out as TG. This raises questions for us here on WP, for example, with female to male transgender person Cidny Bullens. As "Cindy" they for example, sung It's Raining on Prom Night for the movie Grease. Now that song's lyrics are clearly written from the perspective of a CISGENDER FEMALE prom dance attendee and was sung by Bullens when they identified as a young woman, so writing that a man was singing that song is pretty damn awkward. Paul Benjamin Austin ( talk) 14:47, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi everyone! Transgender pages need to be more specific about cross-dressing. Being transgender is not a cross-dresser. This has been cited numerous times, see the reference from the Human Rights Campaign: https://www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-faq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Physpkg ( talk • contribs) 19:30, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
Being transgender is not a cross-dresser. This has been cited numerous times,
———––––––––––––––––
The source that's cited on the page [10] added cross-dressing as falling under "transgender" simply as a means of producing better statistics for the study they were performing. In other words, cross-dressers were included to produce statistically better results. I'm thinking it's more accurate to state that cross-dressing is not necessarily the same thing as being transgender. While some folks do cross-dress before they come out, saying it's the same thing is inaccurate and feeds into the trope of "man in a dress" that so many hate groups like to press, as a means of spreading misinformation regarding trans people. Physpkg ( talk) 12:35, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User
Lmatt has
proposed many different ways in the past view days to write the lead section that merits formal RfC style discussion. As this is a sensitive topic, it is best to get consensus on how to write the lead sentence. The original wording reads Transgender people have a
gender identity or
gender expression that differs from their
assigned sex.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that contradicts what would be presumed from the sex assigned at birth.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that differs from the gender presumed from a person's sex assignment at birth.
Transgender is a human gender identity or gender expression that contradicts the gender presumed from the sex assigned to a person at birth.
Transgender is a gender identity or gender expression of a person that is incongruent with the gender culturally associated with their assigned sex.
Transgender individuals have a gender identity and/or gender expression that is not culturally associated with their assigned gender or sex.(proposed by Gwenhope)
Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their sex assigned at birth.
Please list your preferred option(s) below or feel free to propose a new option. Gwen Hope ( talk) ( contrib) 18:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Note: MattMauler placed a neutral notification at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies on 18:32, 13 September 2019 (UTC). -- MarioGom ( talk) 08:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Option 0 is concise, accurate, broadly understandable, and clean of politicized and jargonistic language contortion.
—
AReaderOutThataway
t/
c
23:26, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Transgender individuals have a gender identity different from the sex or gender they were assigned.Gwen Hope ( talk) ( contrib) 21:22, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Comment: Reverted Lmatt while this RfC is going on. Lmatt, do not change that lead sentence again while this RfC is going on. You were asked to stop in the edit history, above, and your talk page. So stop, and wait for the RfC to finish. Followup note here. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:03, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Kolya Butternut ( talk) 11:05, 15 September 2019 (UTC)Simple and multiple discriminant functions using mid-shaft femoral circumference for the determination of sex were used to test a sexing method recently proposed by Black. The method was able to correctly assign sex for 82% of the sample, which consisted of 115 North American White femora of verified age and sex. Circumference proved as accurate as any other criteria that have been used in sexing the femur. [1]
This RfC may partly rely on terminology in the article Sex assignment, which appears to be unsourced (although the terms are clearly commonly used). Kolya Butternut ( talk) 01:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
The source cited [10] is discussing the methodology used in the paper to get more meaningful statistics, because of the inherent difficulty of performing a survey on the transgender population. In other words, the citation itself reinforces the idea cross dressing is not the same as being trans. You need to read the study to get this concept, not just cherry-pick the words. Physpkg ( talk) 23:01, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
The reference used [10] is not talking about defining “transgender,” but discusses the methodology used in the survey to produce adequate statistics. They included cross-dressers to help cast a wider net. Physpkg ( talk) 12:24, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: Did you mean to remove both the HuffPost and HowStuffWorks source from the drag section? [2] I agree that the Bilerco source wasn't very good, but the HuffPost and HowStuffWorks sources weren't half bad as far as I could tell. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 20:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
With regard to this edit, I'm not trying to grandstand, but to my knowledge, "male" and "female" is usually used to refer to sex, not to gender, so I'm a bit confused about why it's used for describing gender identity? Wouldn't something like "man" and "woman" be more appropriate, when describing genders? -- Metalindustrien ( talk) 13:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm happy to see the evolution of the #Evolution of transgender terminology section, which is nicely expanded and referenced. That said, enough time has elapsed, that I think we can step back and take another look at the organization of the first few sections of the article. Looking at the first three sections, "Evolution", " #Transsexual and its relationship to transgender", and " #Other categories", these are mostly, or entirely, about terminology. Note that this also encompasses the first paragraph of #LGBT community, which discusses identity, orientation, androphilia, gynephilia, et cetera. I'm thus proposing the following reorganization of the Terminology section:
Possibly a new subsection for the more technical terms, or at least, the unfamiliar ones to the unitiated (AMAB, cisgender, etc.). Possibly a subsection on style and cultural aspects (noun vs adj; transgender vs *-ed; do we deal with cultural aspects, e.g., pronoun choice, informal speech, deadnaming, slurs, etc. here? Or maybe that's "style and culture" and not "terminology"?
The part I'm least certain of, is what happens to the content of the five paragraphs currently in the "Evolution" section? I'm not proposing removing a word of it, as I think it's all good content; I'm just wondering if it should be left exactly as is, where it is, and connected, or maybe move some of the paragraphs down to the other sections, and rewrite "Evolution" as a "summary", introducing the whole section? In a way, all three sections (plus a bit of the 4th) are about "evolution of transgender terminology".
The named sections are about 24% of the total byte count, but for an article like this where terminology is paramount and fast-moving, I think that's probably okay. It doesn't escape my notice that Transgender terminology could, and probably should, be a stand-alone article; but in the meantime, this re-org would be an improvement, imho. I may mock something up and include it here later, or just boldly take stab at it, but I'd prefer to hear some of your thoughts, first.
P.S. In case it wasn't clear: This is only about organizational improvement: possible changes to section titles, new subsection titles, and reshuffling existing text; no text changes other than smoothing out segues of moved text, or briefly summarizing existing text if needed. Mathglot ( talk) 22:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Transgender has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change from:
In the United States, a federal bill to protect workers from discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, has stalled and failed several times over the past two decades. [1] Individual states and cities have begun passing their own non-discrimination ordinances. In New York, for example, Governor David Paterson signed into law New York's first statute to include transgender protections in September 2010. [2]
Change to:
In the United States, a federal bill to protect workers from discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, has stalled and failed several times over the past two decades. [3] Individual states and cities have begun passing their own non-discrimination ordinances. In New York, for example, Governor David Paterson signed into law New York's first statute to include transgender protections in September 2010. [4] In 2019, 16 health care organizations filed a joint friend-of-the-court brief in three Title VII cases, urging the Supreme Court of the United States to rule in favor of protecting transgender individuals from employment discrimination to ensure their physical and mental health. [5] Fishmanconsult ( talk) 19:38, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
References
Howdy hello! I have replaced the lead image with a more diverse collage. From a photo quality standpoint, File:Woman looking out window (cropped).jpg is not particularly well taken. The exposure is blown out by the window, its shadowed, and poorly lit. It also doesn't particularly convey the diversity of trans folks. All in all, not a great lead image. I have replaced it with File:Transgender people collage.jpg, and moved the current lead image down. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 18:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
the previous image was of an individual not so described. Mathglot appears to be right. On Commons, it's not included under any categories for depicting transgender people.
What is transgender activists' view on pre-teen cisgender females who want puberty blocking drugs? PAustin4thApril1980 ( talk) 07:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
why isn't there any sort of criticism or contrast in this article? this is a controversial topic and it is intensely anglocentric to just present it in a "this is confirmed thing that exists and this is definitely how it is" way without trying to toe the line and offer a counterpoint at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.55.51 ( talk) 18:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm confused at the wording "transgender and transsexual" throughout the article. Transsexual isn't a commonly used term anymore compared to transgender (at least within trans groups), and promotes a mindset that trans people must sexually transition to be acceptable.
Another complaint is conflation of transgender with transvestite/crossdressing. These are not the same thing and have never been. Transgender people are a gender they weren't assigned at birth. Crossdressers are people who dress in clothes not traditionally worn by their gender. These are not the same, and not mutually exclusive either. SAMSMILE4 ( talk) 21:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
I can find the second one right now: in "Other Categories" it lists crossdressing and drag alongside nonbinary. These shouldn't be relevant to an article about transgender people. SAMSMILE4 ( talk) 21:31, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
There is a shadow over the person and you can barely see their face. We need to find a better image of transgender people(s) to have there. I don't care what it is as long as it is not what it currently is. The current one does not quickly say that you are on the right page. 101.98.135.42 ( talk) 11:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
01:15, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
01:45, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
05:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Daveout
(talk)
00:36, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
There is a shadow over the person and you can barely see their face.
As the person who uploaded and selected
that image, I just wanted to note that this was an intentional choice on my part. I thought her face being in shadow helped 'universalize' the image and made it feel like it wasn't just representing one specific person. It was also an intentional choice to pick a 'boring' image, for lack of a better term. I thought something 'everyday' would be better than a picture from a pride parade or the like.
In any case, I am sympathetic to the argument that no individual person could stand in for such a broad group of people. So I am not opposed to the current lead image of the trans pride flag.
WanderingWanda (
talk)
22:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
We should edit protect this page, because of vandalism. If it’s being editing (positively) a lot then no IgnoredCelery ( talk) 21:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello, the article does not explain properly the terminology to describe the sexual orientation applied to transgender people.
What's the terminology for each? -- 179.26.106.149 ( talk) 20:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Removed "Being transgender is independent of sexual orientation" after reviewing the sources and finding they a) weren't even in the ball park for supporting such an obviously suspect and bold statement and b) that they didn even address transgender and sexual orientation at all. It would be very noteworthy if such obviously related phenomena were in fact independent so if you have anything like a reliable source supporting that please put it back with that source. This is obviously somebody pushing that view and scraping the barrel for support assuming nobody will notice that it in fact says nothing remotely like that transgender is independent of sexual orientation.
Here is what you need to put "Being transgender is independent of sexual orientation." in the lede as a flat fact like that: A reference to peer reviewed scientific studies or at least a single one of them that establishes that being transgender is independent of sexual orientation. One that even addressed the topic will be a start in that search.
Here is the kind of statement of bold, self evident fact of that nature you might make: "Gender dysphoria and sexual orientation are distinct phenomena." This only requires clarity of thought as they are in fact obviously distinct, non synonymous, as the rest of the lede makes clear. The thing redacted was the diametric opposite of this.
Finally, if in fact being transgender were independent of sexual orientation, this would imply that there is something on a par with sexual orientation that does in fact determine being transgender/gender identity, similar to the various determinants of sexual orientation which would be a very very interesting scientific inquiry, thing to be found out in detail. The absence of even studies looking for a factor or factors different from those determining sexual orientation determining gender identity would be negative support that the attempted assertion isn't even taken as worthy of investigation, being on the face of it false. Lycurgus ( talk) 06:59, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Gender identity and sexual orientation are different facets of identity. Everyone has a gender identity and a sexual orientation, but a person’s gender does not determine a person’s sexual orientation. Transgender people may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or none of the above.We aren't saying there is no correlation whatsoever, there could be some correlation, but the point is that gender is not indicative of sexuality. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 19:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Would using the word distinct instead of independent be OK with everyone? It is the word used in the CDC source so it is supported. Rab V ( talk) 20:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Though the citation in the Lead was a bad reference, the statement is absolutely correct. Statements in a Lead do not need to be supported by sources as they simply should reflect the body of the article. Better sources can easily be found for the relevant section too. ~ BOD ~ TALK 22:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Kaldari, if you have a female partner and you are female then you are a homosexual, that is to say a person of a sex whose orientation is toward that sex, assuming by "partner" you meant "sexual partner" rather than other kinds such as biz. This is the flat fact and direct implication from the coherent use of language, regardless of your or the partner females gender style choices. Similarly, being 'independent' and 'distinct' are different relations that can obtain between 2 things. Lycurgus ( talk) 21:13, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I have been here a lot longer than you, indeed. Newimpartial ( talk) 16:38, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Um, no. I'm not sure this is the place for this discussion, but I do live within an objective culture-wide common frame of reference
, and according to that frame of reference, sex and gender represent two distinct things each of which is "universal" with respect to that frame of reference (although each term is nuanced, even polyvalent, depending on context). And within this reality, the OED definition to which you refer, where gender expesses
sex, is of historical but not contemporary relevance. I live in Canada, and the objective
social and legal institutions here distinguish sex from gender when it comes to demography and national statistics, legal rights and discrimination, citizenship, social services and health care, to name only a few domains. In none of these instances is gender understood to express
sex, but nevertheless each term does have a universal
denotation that is then nuanced. So, for example, our human rights law protects against discrimination based on gender identity and gender expression, two different nuances within the broader concept of gender (and distinct from sexual orientation, which is also protected).
This is my reality, and the idea that it is somehow factional
seems more than a bit bizarre to me. Our laws and institutions are not PC sources
, they are objective social phenomena.
Newimpartial (
talk)
17:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
a human being that was born one sex and has had plastic surgery and hormone therapyto appear otherwise would see a person who was assigned one sex at birth but who has taken steps to present themselves to others in line with their gender identity. This is what the reliable, impartial science on the subject tell us. Wikipedia's articles on these topics are not
subjectiveor
PC; they are based on the best available reliable sources on each subject. The ideas that certain aspects of physiology are more
objectivethan others, or are more
impartialthan the rules state organizations make to determine legal gender, are just bizarre to me. According to the reliable sources, physiological sex does not
implya gender identity except for cis people, so your desire to write off the conclusions of researchers and the practices of governments as
social justice perspectivessuggest the opposite of impartiality: in fact the desire to buttress a rather specific,
subjectivePOV that is rapidly becoming WP:FRINGE. Newimpartial ( talk) 18:26, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
The dictionary states "denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex." - does that mean someone who does not personally identify anything (and they were designated a sex at birth by a doctor) is transgender by default? This question is centred around "personal identity" which not everyone has. ZhuLien ( talk) 10:17, 28 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.17.129.186 ( talk)
(This might actually be an issue with my understanding, or the other article I reference below, as opposed to this one.)
This article leads with "Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth."
The article on gender variance leads with "Gender variance, or gender nonconformity, is behavior or gender expression by an individual that does not match masculine or feminine gender norms." It then notes "being a stay-at-home father" as an example of gender variation. ( /info/en/?search=Gender_variance#Social_status_for_men_vs._women)
If "transgender" includes stay at home fathers or people merely who don't rigidly conform to gender norms/roles, it seems very very broad? So broad that most people (in western countries anyway) would be "transgender" by this definition?
Apologies if i've missed something! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.224.141.151 ( talk) 08:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Hair Fairies (people). The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Hair Fairies (people) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs)
02:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Transgendered (Male-Bodied). The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Transgendered (Male-Bodied) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs)
02:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
There must be some error or unexplained context in the passage (under 'scientific studies') claiming that 'One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that 33% of identical twin pairs were both trans, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins who were raised in the same family at the same time'. Taken at face value, this would mean that at least a third of all identical twins were trans, which is obviously untrue. (Even the figure of 2.6% for non-identical twins is probably too high.) I don't know what the study really claimed to show. I guess that the study was confined to twin pairs in which at least one individual was trans. But someone who has access to the study should check the context and edit the passage as necessary. Incidentally, 'identical twins' is not a scientific term and it should be clarified as 'monozygotic'. 2A00:23C8:7906:1301:284D:A998:D69B:989D ( talk) 20:21, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
I think that perhaps a good image for the lead would be a "transition timeline" - pictures of someone before and after they transitioned. Trans people don't look inherently different from cis people, so a more apt comparison is before/after for the same person. Thoughts? Elliot321 ( talk | contribs) 22:30, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
Why was my contribution deleted? Where is your Wikipedia's neutrality? -- Riccardo Riccioni ( talk) 10:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledgeand
Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.The Boston Globe is generally considered reliable, as it has a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. If you have a reliable, secondary source to support your addition (or a primary one which does not require interpretation) it would be welcome, either here or at transgender people and religion, the page that Elli linked to (depending on how much detail you go into). Srey Sros talk 06:28, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
“ in addition to including people whose gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (trans men and trans women), it may include people who are not exclusively masculine or feminine (people who are non-binary or genderqueer, including bigender, pangender, genderfluid, or agender).”
I have some issues with this sentence. How it’s written, you can be non-binary and be exclusively feminine. You can also be a masculine trans woman.
I think the wording needs to be edited. CycoMa ( talk) 02:49, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
...it may include people who are not exclusively men or women(as opposed to masculine or feminine)? Of course, this all really comes down to what the sources say, which I haven't checked. ezlev tlk
Isn’t the whole point in being transgender about identifying outside of birth sex. Masculine for example literally means “ having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men.”
There is such thing as trans women who are extremely masculine, there are even trans women who look like men.
There is also such thing as masculine cis women.
Gender identity isn’t about appearance or characteristics.
So I think the sentence should be changed to something along the lines of. “There are individuals who don’t exclusively identify as male or female.”
CycoMa ( talk) 03:53, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
As a matter of fact there is such thing as masculine non-binary people too. CycoMa ( talk) 04:23, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Gender Roamer: Personally, I prefer having shortened to "trans" in the first sentence, that's the standard way we do our first sentences and it helps with dismabiguation. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 21:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
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The umbrella term “trans” does not include cross dressing people. It is a term for transexuals, transgenders and non-binary people. The Enby Gremlin ( talk) 07:52, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
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I request that added to transgender that no survey has ever been conducted to see if those who have had their sex legally changed are okay being labelled transgender. Also the legality and constitutionality of the word transgender has never been established on the grounds of whether it violates the full faith and credit clause rights of a transsexual that has obtained a change of sex. As a Massachusetts born person when questioned about it both Governor Charlie Bakers Office and the Framingham department of vital statistics stated that no one may refer to me as transgender based on my no longer legal sex without my consent. Also to do so could be considered a violation of all fifty states laws concerning the legal practice of psychology on an individual without their consent. Transgender activist may wish to note this to avoid legal actions against them. 67.136.4.196 ( talk) 18:02, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
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Clinicians are not informing parents of future legal rights loss of children who obtain legal change of sex via the use of the word transgender and that their child will forever be seen ad part of the lgbt movement and subject to its whims! 67.136.4.196 ( talk) 18:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
the lgbt movementand
its whims(or about anything else). Please either submit a clear edit request supported by reliable sources or stop submitting edit requests. ezlev tlk
Excusez-moi mais ce mot n'est plus à utiliser. Il désigné autrefois une maladie mentale pour caractérisé les personnes ne sentant pas en accord avec leur genre attribué à la naissance et donc par conséquent leur sexe, le fait ou non de faire une opération pour changer de sexe ne change pas le nom, c'est transgenre et c'est tout. 5.252.63.158 ( talk) 14:25, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
It is a common slur to say that trans people are transvestites or cross-dressers. The "reliable source" given to defame us in this way (and in the opening paragraph, no less), is flimsy at best and is, as I have said, repeating a slur against us. Surely Wikipedia is better than this?
Please just remove the sentence, as it is not true, is a defamatory slur, and is hurtful to us, the subject matter of this article.
Please remove this as a matter of urgency, as you are actively hurting people with this article. 49.184.213.214 ( talk)— Preceding undated comment added 07:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
It is a common slur to say that trans people are transvestites or cross-dressers, and needs to be removed asap. The so-called "reliable source" given to defame us in this way (and in the opening paragraph if this article, no less), is flimsy at best and is, as I have said, repeating a slur against us. Surely Wikipedia is better than this?
Please just remove the sentence, as:
1) it is not true,
2) it is a defamatory slur, and
3) it is hurtful to us, the subject matter of this article.
Please remove this as a matter of urgency, as you are actively hurting people with this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by an IP editor 07:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
The term transgender may be defined very broadly to include cross-dressers, that's sourced to this paper published in 2013 in the journal LGBT Health. Specifically, this paragraph:
Eligibility criteria for the survey were: (1) being age 18 or older; (2) voluntarily agreeing to complete the survey; and (3) identifying as transgender. Transgender was defined broadly to cover those who transition from one gender to another as well as those who may not choose to socially, medically, or legally fully transition, including cross-dressers, people who consider themselves to be genderqueer, androgynous, and those whose gender nonconformity is a part of their identity. Inclusive language regarding gender nonconforming was used to ensure broad participation.
I think you should change "Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth." to "Transgender people identify as a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth." Wikipedia has always been neutral, and I think this edit would better reflect that and remain consistent with it's generally neutral view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abider445 ( talk • contribs) 16:37, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Why does it say transgender people are individuals who have a different gender expression from their assigned sex? Isn't gender expression about behaviors.
Just because a woman decides to behave in a way that's traditionally viewed as manly doesn't mean she's a transman. CycoMa ( talk) 01:08, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
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Replace Transgender people may identify as heterosexual (straight), homosexual (gay), bisexual, asexual, or otherwise, or may decline to label their sexual orientation. To Transgender people may identify as heterosexual (straight), homosexual (gay or lesbian), bisexual, asexual, or otherwise, or may decline to label their sexual orientation.
As gay is mostly used for males while transgender women often use lesbian like non transgender women do 71.241.216.97 ( talk) 00:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)