This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
A fact from Tomb of Aegisthus appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchaeologyWikipedia:WikiProject ArchaeologyTemplate:WikiProject ArchaeologyArchaeology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
Multiple Harv errors & 1 Harv warning. Specifically Ref #s 15, 19, 25, & 33 are throwing "Harv errors", meaning the refs are malformed. See
Possible issues with Harvard cites to help you figure out why and how to fix the problems. The Dudley Moore/Edward Rowlands text in the Bibliography is throwing a Harv warning because apparently no refs cite that text.
Shearonink (
talk)
22:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I think I've now fixed this. Problem seemed to be with the {{sfn}} tags - the documentation seemed to suggest that you either gave author-year or author1-author2, but they needed to be fed additional authors in order to get the right one. I fixed a few of my own boneheaded mistakes in the process as well.
(Incidentally: how did you spot those errors? Just by mousing over each reference?)
UndercoverClassicist (
talk) 23:32, 5 January 2023
Ref #15 is faulty. A Wikipedia article cannot use another Wikipedia article as a reference plus "Pausanias" is a link to a disambiguation page.
Shearonink (
talk)
01:17, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks - ref. 15 isn't a reference to the Wiki page on Pausanias, it's to the Classical text written by him and usually cited by his name, which is being referred to in the article. The disambig page link is a fault in the template I used - I should be able to fix that.
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
06:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The problem with the Ref is that it twice links directly to the Pausanias Wikipedia article and regardless of how it is constructed or your intention it gives the appearance of using Wikipedia to reference itself. The Tufts source for 'underground chambers of Atreus and his children, in which were stored their treasures ... and the grave of Agamemnon.' needs to be laid-out more clearly for readers to be able to follow the informational bread-crumbs.
Shearonink (
talk)
08:07, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The internationally standard way of citing a Classical source is "Author, Title, Book.Subsection/Lines" (e.g. Homer, Iliad, 5.244). The template simply follows that, which is widely used on Wikipedia and in academic literature, wikilinking the author and title, as is normal in Wikipedia citations for notable people and works. If you look at
this book (I just flicked through pp. 196-200), you can see examples both inline (where the author name is omitted as obvious) and in footnotes.
Pausanias is a bit of a special case: as he only wrote one surviving text, and the titles of Classical texts are always a little arbitrary, it's a matter of taste whether to include the title or not.
Are you saying that it would be better if the wikilinks in the template to
Pausanias (now disambiged) and Description of Greecewere removed? It's an external template (which is made in line with several other, matching, external templates), so I'm not sure if that's really within the scope of a GA review on this particular article. As it stands, I don't see that this is any different to using author-link or wikilinking a work title in a {{cite book}} template - the citation is understood as being to the work itself, not the wikipedia page about that work
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
08:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes I understand that it is linking to his writings at the tufts website and about the internationally standard way of linking to classic texts and I get what you're saying about Wikilinking to publisher/author/editor etc but that is all within a citation format that lays out clearly what those Wikilinks are I'm just saying that the appearance of this particular reference seems to be going directly to another Wikipedia article. Maybe I'm wrong on this, it's possible - I'll try to get another opinion on this tomorrow, if that's ok?
Shearonink (
talk)
08:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
TrangaBellam Sorry?...you misunderstand my point, of COURSE there is no issue with wikilinking books or authors etc within a citation/cite web/book/whatever, but the linkage I am having an issue with links directly to the Wikipedia article while this article's every other citation links to a clearly delineated source/book placed within the article's Bibliography. I've done over 100 GA Reviews and have never seen this form/format before so I am having trouble with it. Am doing some more research on the matter, thanks.
Shearonink (
talk)
16:49, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your interest & contribution but while you were editing the article I had decided to let the Nominator's ref format stand as it does not specifically go against GA criteria. That I am unfamiliar with such a construct doesn't mean that as the reviewer I should stand in the article's way to becoming a GA. Thanks anyway,
Shearonink (
talk)
18:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Almost all of the images' permissions/copyright status/CC-BY-SA status is correct except for the photo of
Christos Tsountas. It is impossible for a photo of a man who lived from 1857-1934 to be the uploader's work. The photo is apparently from/held by the National Archaeological Museum of Athens and its copyright status is unclear.
Shearonink (
talk)
22:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Good spot. It's displayed in the NAM, but I don't know the source - a digital copy of the image is part of
this sign. It was obviously taken before the magic publication year of 1927 (T. was born in 1857 and is clearly not 70 in that image), but the million-dollar question is when it was published... I've just gone ahead and swapped it out.
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
23:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The Tomb of Aegisthus at Mycenae, with its relieving triangle above the entrance.
... that the Tomb of Aegisthus(pictured) helped to settle the 'Helladic Heresy' over the relationship between Minoan and Mycenaean civilisation? Source: ref. 13 in article (Galanakis 2007, p. 255)
ALT1: ... that the Tomb of Aegisthus(pictured) was first discovered in 1892, but its relieving triangle was not found until 1997? Source: ref. 10 in article (Galanakis 2007, p. 249.)
just promoted to good article, very interesting and well written article, interesting hook highlighting the notability of the topic, all within policy. Image is freely licensed and clear. Excellent work for what looks to be the nominator's first DYK. Well done.
Onceinawhile (
talk)
00:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)reply
This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
A fact from Tomb of Aegisthus appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchaeologyWikipedia:WikiProject ArchaeologyTemplate:WikiProject ArchaeologyArchaeology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
Multiple Harv errors & 1 Harv warning. Specifically Ref #s 15, 19, 25, & 33 are throwing "Harv errors", meaning the refs are malformed. See
Possible issues with Harvard cites to help you figure out why and how to fix the problems. The Dudley Moore/Edward Rowlands text in the Bibliography is throwing a Harv warning because apparently no refs cite that text.
Shearonink (
talk)
22:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I think I've now fixed this. Problem seemed to be with the {{sfn}} tags - the documentation seemed to suggest that you either gave author-year or author1-author2, but they needed to be fed additional authors in order to get the right one. I fixed a few of my own boneheaded mistakes in the process as well.
(Incidentally: how did you spot those errors? Just by mousing over each reference?)
UndercoverClassicist (
talk) 23:32, 5 January 2023
Ref #15 is faulty. A Wikipedia article cannot use another Wikipedia article as a reference plus "Pausanias" is a link to a disambiguation page.
Shearonink (
talk)
01:17, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks - ref. 15 isn't a reference to the Wiki page on Pausanias, it's to the Classical text written by him and usually cited by his name, which is being referred to in the article. The disambig page link is a fault in the template I used - I should be able to fix that.
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
06:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The problem with the Ref is that it twice links directly to the Pausanias Wikipedia article and regardless of how it is constructed or your intention it gives the appearance of using Wikipedia to reference itself. The Tufts source for 'underground chambers of Atreus and his children, in which were stored their treasures ... and the grave of Agamemnon.' needs to be laid-out more clearly for readers to be able to follow the informational bread-crumbs.
Shearonink (
talk)
08:07, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The internationally standard way of citing a Classical source is "Author, Title, Book.Subsection/Lines" (e.g. Homer, Iliad, 5.244). The template simply follows that, which is widely used on Wikipedia and in academic literature, wikilinking the author and title, as is normal in Wikipedia citations for notable people and works. If you look at
this book (I just flicked through pp. 196-200), you can see examples both inline (where the author name is omitted as obvious) and in footnotes.
Pausanias is a bit of a special case: as he only wrote one surviving text, and the titles of Classical texts are always a little arbitrary, it's a matter of taste whether to include the title or not.
Are you saying that it would be better if the wikilinks in the template to
Pausanias (now disambiged) and Description of Greecewere removed? It's an external template (which is made in line with several other, matching, external templates), so I'm not sure if that's really within the scope of a GA review on this particular article. As it stands, I don't see that this is any different to using author-link or wikilinking a work title in a {{cite book}} template - the citation is understood as being to the work itself, not the wikipedia page about that work
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
08:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes I understand that it is linking to his writings at the tufts website and about the internationally standard way of linking to classic texts and I get what you're saying about Wikilinking to publisher/author/editor etc but that is all within a citation format that lays out clearly what those Wikilinks are I'm just saying that the appearance of this particular reference seems to be going directly to another Wikipedia article. Maybe I'm wrong on this, it's possible - I'll try to get another opinion on this tomorrow, if that's ok?
Shearonink (
talk)
08:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
TrangaBellam Sorry?...you misunderstand my point, of COURSE there is no issue with wikilinking books or authors etc within a citation/cite web/book/whatever, but the linkage I am having an issue with links directly to the Wikipedia article while this article's every other citation links to a clearly delineated source/book placed within the article's Bibliography. I've done over 100 GA Reviews and have never seen this form/format before so I am having trouble with it. Am doing some more research on the matter, thanks.
Shearonink (
talk)
16:49, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your interest & contribution but while you were editing the article I had decided to let the Nominator's ref format stand as it does not specifically go against GA criteria. That I am unfamiliar with such a construct doesn't mean that as the reviewer I should stand in the article's way to becoming a GA. Thanks anyway,
Shearonink (
talk)
18:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Almost all of the images' permissions/copyright status/CC-BY-SA status is correct except for the photo of
Christos Tsountas. It is impossible for a photo of a man who lived from 1857-1934 to be the uploader's work. The photo is apparently from/held by the National Archaeological Museum of Athens and its copyright status is unclear.
Shearonink (
talk)
22:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Good spot. It's displayed in the NAM, but I don't know the source - a digital copy of the image is part of
this sign. It was obviously taken before the magic publication year of 1927 (T. was born in 1857 and is clearly not 70 in that image), but the million-dollar question is when it was published... I've just gone ahead and swapped it out.
UndercoverClassicist (
talk)
23:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The Tomb of Aegisthus at Mycenae, with its relieving triangle above the entrance.
... that the Tomb of Aegisthus(pictured) helped to settle the 'Helladic Heresy' over the relationship between Minoan and Mycenaean civilisation? Source: ref. 13 in article (Galanakis 2007, p. 255)
ALT1: ... that the Tomb of Aegisthus(pictured) was first discovered in 1892, but its relieving triangle was not found until 1997? Source: ref. 10 in article (Galanakis 2007, p. 249.)
just promoted to good article, very interesting and well written article, interesting hook highlighting the notability of the topic, all within policy. Image is freely licensed and clear. Excellent work for what looks to be the nominator's first DYK. Well done.
Onceinawhile (
talk)
00:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)reply