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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Tok Pisin language was copied or moved into Tok Pisin with this edit on 15 August 2002. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
(Sorry for the "original research" but I think we all know there are not too many official sources on Tok Pisin.) When I lived in Lae and learned Tok Pisin from people there, they said "Mangi" for boy. The lady who taught me most was from Sepik, but I learned from a wide bunch from Tari, Goroko and all over the place. They all said "Mangi". Of course they all spoke Pisin as a 2nd language and I'm Scottish, so also not mother tounge. 206.248.129.83 ( talk) 22:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
The word "Mangi" means "young man or boy" and is made up of "man" ,meaning man, and the suffix "gi" meaning young from the variations and attemps of language exchange within the country (Papua New Guinea). The pronounciation of "Mangi" to "Manki" arises as a result of phonetic variations from different language groups that pronounce "g" as "k" or "p" as "f" for eg: the word "pig" is pronounce by some other language groups as "fik". It is also worth pointing out that Tok pisin has its own variations within Papua New Guinea where different language groups adapt some words in their language into it and not all words in Tok pisin are derived from english. With that been said, Papua New Guinea is the land of many languages and if a word is adapted from any of the local languages it is only a matter of time before it becomes popular. And, without proper doucumentation of the origins of the words, most english speakers tend to think that it should all be derived from english or some wetsern culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PNG Scientist ( talk • contribs) 10:22, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
I first encountered this language in the 1980s upon reading James Blish's novel The Night Shapes (1962), set in early-1900s Africa. As example, the narrator, to say, "I wish to speak to the man in charge" said "mi spik bigfella," which at the time deeply impressed me with its concision. After that, I was fascinated with "trade pidgin," and it was only after the Wkkipedia arose that I found the "tok pisin" concept.
What dismays me in this article is the apparent tone-deafness of the various editors. Look to the lede grafs: the point is largely missed that "tok pisin" is a VERY simple transliteration of the term "talk business" — "business speak" or rather "trade speech."
Almost all verbiage derives from colloquial English, when heard rather than read. For instance, "I would like toothpastae" is "Mi laikim sop bilong tit" — "Me like'm soap belong teeth," that is to say "I would like (to have) (the) soap for (my) teeth." Conversely, "I don't speak pidgin well" = "Mi no save gut long tok pisin" ("long" = "along," so you have "me no savvy (understand) good along with trade-speak").
Though the article makes the case that it's a primary language of Papua New Guinea and used by "[p]erhaps one million people," the language has been deprecated by the Wikipedia community and hundreds of articles blanked, yet we somehow still have
Esperanto, an entirely artificial language. Please don't get me wrong: I have studied Esperanto since 1974, but tok pisin is an ACTIVE language used on a daily basis, something Esperanto cannot claim.
Weeb Dingle (
talk) 05:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
the "Development of Tok Pisin" section is a bit weak, and a lot of the references are not in wikipedia format. I don't know if this means it's an inexperienced editor or copy pasted plagiarism? i'm currently watching this youtube: Langfocus, and it has some interesting history, i know youtube isn't the most highbrow source, but it's a start. Irtapil ( talk) 17:06, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
I just removed the pronunciation [ˌtok piˈsin] from the article because it was not supported by a complete citation to any source, and I am not sure whether the stress on the final syllable is correct. Smith says that per Wurm (1985), "stress is normally on the first syllable" and "stress patterns more closely resembl[e] those of English among speakers more familiar with English" (page 201). So stress on the second syllable of [piˈsin] would be surprising as it doesn't match either the normal rule for Tok Pisin or the stress pattern of the English source word pidgin. Thus, I don't think we should present this stress pattern unless it can be verified.I haven't seen the stress of this word given in any articles or dictionaries I have looked at so far. I am curious if anyone has ideas for how to better confirm the correct local pronunciation. @ Womtelo, I think you may have been the first to add this pronunciation to the article with this edit here; can you clarify whether that was based on personal experience with the language, or on some source that you remember? Urszag ( talk) 05:42, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
The sources for "Hymes 1971b", "Mühlhäusler 1984", "Mühlhäusler 1991", and "Romaine 1991" are missing. They either need to be provided, or any statements sourced to them removed as uncited. DuncanHill ( talk) 19:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tok Pisin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 730 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Tok Pisin language was copied or moved into Tok Pisin with this edit on 15 August 2002. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
(Sorry for the "original research" but I think we all know there are not too many official sources on Tok Pisin.) When I lived in Lae and learned Tok Pisin from people there, they said "Mangi" for boy. The lady who taught me most was from Sepik, but I learned from a wide bunch from Tari, Goroko and all over the place. They all said "Mangi". Of course they all spoke Pisin as a 2nd language and I'm Scottish, so also not mother tounge. 206.248.129.83 ( talk) 22:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
The word "Mangi" means "young man or boy" and is made up of "man" ,meaning man, and the suffix "gi" meaning young from the variations and attemps of language exchange within the country (Papua New Guinea). The pronounciation of "Mangi" to "Manki" arises as a result of phonetic variations from different language groups that pronounce "g" as "k" or "p" as "f" for eg: the word "pig" is pronounce by some other language groups as "fik". It is also worth pointing out that Tok pisin has its own variations within Papua New Guinea where different language groups adapt some words in their language into it and not all words in Tok pisin are derived from english. With that been said, Papua New Guinea is the land of many languages and if a word is adapted from any of the local languages it is only a matter of time before it becomes popular. And, without proper doucumentation of the origins of the words, most english speakers tend to think that it should all be derived from english or some wetsern culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PNG Scientist ( talk • contribs) 10:22, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
I first encountered this language in the 1980s upon reading James Blish's novel The Night Shapes (1962), set in early-1900s Africa. As example, the narrator, to say, "I wish to speak to the man in charge" said "mi spik bigfella," which at the time deeply impressed me with its concision. After that, I was fascinated with "trade pidgin," and it was only after the Wkkipedia arose that I found the "tok pisin" concept.
What dismays me in this article is the apparent tone-deafness of the various editors. Look to the lede grafs: the point is largely missed that "tok pisin" is a VERY simple transliteration of the term "talk business" — "business speak" or rather "trade speech."
Almost all verbiage derives from colloquial English, when heard rather than read. For instance, "I would like toothpastae" is "Mi laikim sop bilong tit" — "Me like'm soap belong teeth," that is to say "I would like (to have) (the) soap for (my) teeth." Conversely, "I don't speak pidgin well" = "Mi no save gut long tok pisin" ("long" = "along," so you have "me no savvy (understand) good along with trade-speak").
Though the article makes the case that it's a primary language of Papua New Guinea and used by "[p]erhaps one million people," the language has been deprecated by the Wikipedia community and hundreds of articles blanked, yet we somehow still have
Esperanto, an entirely artificial language. Please don't get me wrong: I have studied Esperanto since 1974, but tok pisin is an ACTIVE language used on a daily basis, something Esperanto cannot claim.
Weeb Dingle (
talk) 05:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
the "Development of Tok Pisin" section is a bit weak, and a lot of the references are not in wikipedia format. I don't know if this means it's an inexperienced editor or copy pasted plagiarism? i'm currently watching this youtube: Langfocus, and it has some interesting history, i know youtube isn't the most highbrow source, but it's a start. Irtapil ( talk) 17:06, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
I just removed the pronunciation [ˌtok piˈsin] from the article because it was not supported by a complete citation to any source, and I am not sure whether the stress on the final syllable is correct. Smith says that per Wurm (1985), "stress is normally on the first syllable" and "stress patterns more closely resembl[e] those of English among speakers more familiar with English" (page 201). So stress on the second syllable of [piˈsin] would be surprising as it doesn't match either the normal rule for Tok Pisin or the stress pattern of the English source word pidgin. Thus, I don't think we should present this stress pattern unless it can be verified.I haven't seen the stress of this word given in any articles or dictionaries I have looked at so far. I am curious if anyone has ideas for how to better confirm the correct local pronunciation. @ Womtelo, I think you may have been the first to add this pronunciation to the article with this edit here; can you clarify whether that was based on personal experience with the language, or on some source that you remember? Urszag ( talk) 05:42, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
The sources for "Hymes 1971b", "Mühlhäusler 1984", "Mühlhäusler 1991", and "Romaine 1991" are missing. They either need to be provided, or any statements sourced to them removed as uncited. DuncanHill ( talk) 19:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)