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Toa Payoh ritual murders article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Toa Payoh ritual murders is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
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Did you know?" column on
December 17, 2008. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that during the trial for the
Toa Payoh ritual murders in
Singapore, Howard Cashin received death threats for defending the accused, Adrian Lim? | |||||||||||||
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This is one of the best Wikipedia articles I have ever read and should be a model for an article in any journal or reference. It was more than just a fact1, fact2, fact3 article. The writing is verbose and flows together well.
I commend the editors who collaborated to write this excellent article. Well. Done. -- 12.155.20.214 ( talk) 01:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree that the adticle is generally very well written - well done to all concerned. Other, that is, than for the bit on the making of the films of the murders. Words such as "capitalise" struck me as being odd, and not of a NPV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.172.180.19 ( talk) 06:18, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
"purposeful in his pursuits, patient in his planning and persuasive in his performance for personal power and pleasure" - thats a great line, was that translated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.122.244 ( talk) 22:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Narayanan's description and spelling of "Siamese sex god Pragngan" are unencyclopedic, misleading and offensive tabloid hype. First, a Phra Ngang ("Holy Fool") is a specific type of amulet depicting the Buddha [1], not some "Siamese sex god". Second, the name is พระงั่ง in Thai, and according to WP:THAI rules should thus be rendered Phra Ngang in RTGS. You can easily verify this by a Google Image search: [2] (English) or [3] (Thai). ( talk) 11:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm hoping you two can calm down, leave the article about what happened in Singapore in its Singaporean context, and add a condensed subtext as to what it is about this (other than the grisly murders) that offends Thai and Buddhist sensibilities. Do keep in mind what perversion means, and perhaps link to it in the subtext, as I have done here. Strictly for this discussion, I'd like to cast light on "Phra Khruang" and "tukata". The latter is a doll or toy, and in this context, is a pejorative meaning that the object has been perverted into a trinket. "Khruang" used alone means 'engine', but its base meaning is apparatus, as in implements (of a trade or craftsman,) or for a particular purpose, or, very loosely speaking, stuff. "Phra" is a prefix that may also be used similar to a pronoun for some one or thing holy or noble. "Phra Khruang" may be used merely descriptively, or pejoratively depending entirely upon context. To put any subtext in proper context, try to make it clear that perverts think there is a Siamese sex god, and that grisly use of objects considered holy to many, adds its bit to the grisliness of the murders. Pawyilee ( talk) 10:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Phragann,[fn 4] whom Lim described as a Siamese sex god...,
[fn 4] ^ Lim used a small idol of this god in his rituals, and wore it around his waist during sex. The two main sources differed in their naming of this idol. John referred to it as Pragngan, while Narayanan cited the police reports, calling it Phragann.
I'd use which instead of whom in the article; and in the footnote, use figurine of his god instead of idol of this god, and change the next usage of idol to thing. Since it is already referred to as Siamese, these changes in wording should break the "idol chatter" loose from having to use Thai language or transliteration. I hope. Pawyilee ( talk) 16:34, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Should be written Phra Ngang. — JoJo • Talk • 00:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
The exchange rates in this article are all wrong. 1 USD is worth more than 1 SGD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.77.41.107 ( talk) 22:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
UnHoly Trinity (p. 4): "Inspector Pereira was at his office in CID headquarters when he heard that another child has been found dead, He was at the scene within twenty-five minutes just before Inspector Sanmugam Suppiah, who was overall in charge of investigations into the two murders, arrived. [...] The two inspectors and a team of men immediately began searching the area. This time they found the clue they needed so badly: a trail of blood. [...] p.5: He decided to check the seventh level, Inspector Pererira stopped at the very first flat, 467F, and gazed at it for a while. [...] p. 8: Suddenly, Lim's mood changed when some police officers from the Toa Payoh Police Station mentioned something about a rape charge. [...] At 11.25 a.m, Inspector Suppiah told his men to take Lim, Tan and Hoe to CID headquarters for questioning with the murders of the two children."
Suppiah and Pereira are CID, not Toa Payoh policemen. Investigations on the scene are conducted by CID, supported by Toa Payoh officers. Furthermore, it was Pereira (CID) who found Lim's flat. Jappalang ( talk) 11:31, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
The recent edits of an IP editor have resulted in:
Notes are intended to either support the text or to provide the author's comments (for Wikipedia, this needs to be verifiable to a reliable source per policies). I have integrated some of the footnotes but I do not see the point in placing the remaining ones into the main text or removing them totally. Jappalang ( talk) 01:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Toa Payoh ritual murders article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Toa Payoh ritual murders is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 10, 2009. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
December 17, 2008. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that during the trial for the
Toa Payoh ritual murders in
Singapore, Howard Cashin received death threats for defending the accused, Adrian Lim? | |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is one of the best Wikipedia articles I have ever read and should be a model for an article in any journal or reference. It was more than just a fact1, fact2, fact3 article. The writing is verbose and flows together well.
I commend the editors who collaborated to write this excellent article. Well. Done. -- 12.155.20.214 ( talk) 01:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree that the adticle is generally very well written - well done to all concerned. Other, that is, than for the bit on the making of the films of the murders. Words such as "capitalise" struck me as being odd, and not of a NPV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.172.180.19 ( talk) 06:18, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
"purposeful in his pursuits, patient in his planning and persuasive in his performance for personal power and pleasure" - thats a great line, was that translated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.122.244 ( talk) 22:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Narayanan's description and spelling of "Siamese sex god Pragngan" are unencyclopedic, misleading and offensive tabloid hype. First, a Phra Ngang ("Holy Fool") is a specific type of amulet depicting the Buddha [1], not some "Siamese sex god". Second, the name is พระงั่ง in Thai, and according to WP:THAI rules should thus be rendered Phra Ngang in RTGS. You can easily verify this by a Google Image search: [2] (English) or [3] (Thai). ( talk) 11:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm hoping you two can calm down, leave the article about what happened in Singapore in its Singaporean context, and add a condensed subtext as to what it is about this (other than the grisly murders) that offends Thai and Buddhist sensibilities. Do keep in mind what perversion means, and perhaps link to it in the subtext, as I have done here. Strictly for this discussion, I'd like to cast light on "Phra Khruang" and "tukata". The latter is a doll or toy, and in this context, is a pejorative meaning that the object has been perverted into a trinket. "Khruang" used alone means 'engine', but its base meaning is apparatus, as in implements (of a trade or craftsman,) or for a particular purpose, or, very loosely speaking, stuff. "Phra" is a prefix that may also be used similar to a pronoun for some one or thing holy or noble. "Phra Khruang" may be used merely descriptively, or pejoratively depending entirely upon context. To put any subtext in proper context, try to make it clear that perverts think there is a Siamese sex god, and that grisly use of objects considered holy to many, adds its bit to the grisliness of the murders. Pawyilee ( talk) 10:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Phragann,[fn 4] whom Lim described as a Siamese sex god...,
[fn 4] ^ Lim used a small idol of this god in his rituals, and wore it around his waist during sex. The two main sources differed in their naming of this idol. John referred to it as Pragngan, while Narayanan cited the police reports, calling it Phragann.
I'd use which instead of whom in the article; and in the footnote, use figurine of his god instead of idol of this god, and change the next usage of idol to thing. Since it is already referred to as Siamese, these changes in wording should break the "idol chatter" loose from having to use Thai language or transliteration. I hope. Pawyilee ( talk) 16:34, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Should be written Phra Ngang. — JoJo • Talk • 00:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
The exchange rates in this article are all wrong. 1 USD is worth more than 1 SGD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.77.41.107 ( talk) 22:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
UnHoly Trinity (p. 4): "Inspector Pereira was at his office in CID headquarters when he heard that another child has been found dead, He was at the scene within twenty-five minutes just before Inspector Sanmugam Suppiah, who was overall in charge of investigations into the two murders, arrived. [...] The two inspectors and a team of men immediately began searching the area. This time they found the clue they needed so badly: a trail of blood. [...] p.5: He decided to check the seventh level, Inspector Pererira stopped at the very first flat, 467F, and gazed at it for a while. [...] p. 8: Suddenly, Lim's mood changed when some police officers from the Toa Payoh Police Station mentioned something about a rape charge. [...] At 11.25 a.m, Inspector Suppiah told his men to take Lim, Tan and Hoe to CID headquarters for questioning with the murders of the two children."
Suppiah and Pereira are CID, not Toa Payoh policemen. Investigations on the scene are conducted by CID, supported by Toa Payoh officers. Furthermore, it was Pereira (CID) who found Lim's flat. Jappalang ( talk) 11:31, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
The recent edits of an IP editor have resulted in:
Notes are intended to either support the text or to provide the author's comments (for Wikipedia, this needs to be verifiable to a reliable source per policies). I have integrated some of the footnotes but I do not see the point in placing the remaining ones into the main text or removing them totally. Jappalang ( talk) 01:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)