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I reverted the recent deletion of the phrase "Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be removed from the team" from the article. Zellin had deleted it, writing "He never said he would ask for that player to be removed from the team." The Sports Illustrated article (footnote #1) says: "If he did find out that a teammate was gay, Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be removed from the team." It's not a direct quote, but it seems good enough for me. Malik Shabazz 00:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure someone will remove that unfortunate bit at the bottom- Juggsmurf 03:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
As inflammatory as his comments may have been the fact that the homophobia section is now longer than the entire section detailing his life and career, that can't be ballanced. You don't see the Mel Gibson page more than 50% dedicated to his DUI or the michael richards incident. it should defennetly be trimmed down. --- Duhon February 16th 2007
Disagree. The "controversy" does not need to be so extensively detailed on this page. The fact that it is current does not make it so noteworthy as to require such extensive explanation. As to the issue of whether it is the most notable thing Hardaway has ever done, that's a matter of opinion and seems like a bit of a biased point of view. Ronnymexico 21:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, I guess for the time being it is probably fair to include it all. I definitely agree with pruning that section once the controversy subsides in the future though. No problem with the comment move. Ronnymexico 03:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC) This is not the most notable thing about Tim Hardaway. Tim Hardaway was a great player who made the news regularly in his career because of his good games. The fact that most Wikipedia editors do not follow sports should not mean you should dedicate pages to athletes to be about everything they have done outside of sports. It should not have a whole section dedicated to it, it should only be a couple of sentences. If any sourced content stays, then you could have sections added for every professional game he has ever played in. The fact that the editors are so unfamiliar with Tim Hardaway as relating to what he was actually notable for, shows that Wikipedia should have no articles at all on athletes or anything sports related because the editors are not capable of properly editing them because they have no sports knowledge or any concern or will to attain any sources or information on athletics. Conman3000 01:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
If I put as much sports content there as was there for this one news story, all my additions would be removed by another editor. 02:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Conman3000 ( talk • contribs).
All the articles go through this. Any time a new story breaks, concerning a celebrity, that story tends to be overrepresented within the article. As the news story fades, the section is gradually trimmed. Give things a few months and you'll see it slowly shrinking. Honest - it happens every time. 67.55.4.52 15:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
So, he comes out with his comments, and gets added to the LGBT Wikiproject. Does this mean Adolph Hitler is on their list for his stance on gays as well? I think it is a stretch to add him, but just a tad bit funny, too. CodeCarpenter 14:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anybody know why the NPOV and Weasel Words tags were added to the article? I left a note asking the editor who added them, but maybe somebody else can explain. Malik Shabazz 18:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Should the link to it be removed? 70.19.31.152 19:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Site is still down after a year and a half. The ip address it provides to access it is also bogus. Thus, the link has been removed. (
130.102.0.170 (
talk)
06:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA20dKc3kK8
Worth adding something about? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sloane ( talk) • contribs) 23:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC).
Would someone please clean this up? It seems somewhat obscene that his personal views on homosexuality take up way more space on this page then his actual career.
It would be adequate to mention that he made comments toward homosexuals, provide a rebuttal from another source in regards to his comments and leave it at that.
Not too mention that the article is obviously biased in a pro-homosexual light. It is a "little more" than what is needed to report the events. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orasis ( talk • contribs) 17:55, March 9, 2007
--- Indeed and it should be, at the moment it is way too long this news has settled to the back of the newswire by now, I would say it is time to give more space to his actual career then his personal beliefs - which are his, and should not be attacked with flagrant bias. - The section basically condemns him for his personal belief as if he MUST like gay people or else. Orasis
and add the word "at" so it reads "At six feet (1.83 m) tall, he was....." I think that sounds better. Shorty4life88 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I doubt a lot of people will read this before editing, I thought I'd note something as it's happened a few times - will Tim Hardaway fans STOP removing the homophobia controversy from the intro. It IS a "notable" event, despite what you may think, and the fact that it is covered later on in the article is *precisely* why it needs to remain in the introduction. Please see WP:LEDE for further info. Mentality 11:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm still deleting it. ;) There's no mention of Mark David Chapman in the Catcher in the Rye opening, so why should this be here? I can see how alot of homos may think Hardaway was some obscure athlete and this is his defining moment (as evidenced above) but he was an elite level athlete and celebrity for years before this. The fact that it's constantly removed should let you know that it's inapropriate. 66.167.148.135 03:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I just got a message warning me about "3RR", yet Mentality claims to have reverted the edit so many times from different users that he had to put hidden text in the article forbiding it. 66.167.148.135 08:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I request mediation! 68.166.64.241 19:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Now this Shabazz character is threatening to suspend me, yet he doesn't have the balls to coment on the talk page. Since 3RR has already been violated by an editor to keep it in the opening paragraph, I feel justified in deleting it as many times as necessary. Suspend away. It means nothing to me.
The contraversy is not notable enough to warrant mention in the opening paragraph. Maybe it was when he said it, and the few weeks afterwards, but not now. 68.166.64.241 22:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I disagree that Haradaway's comments are still notable. Richards will forever be known for 1) Kramer, and 2) Racist outbursts. Hardaway's comments are pretty much gone from the public consciousness. This is the equivalent of putting the charges of Jordan being addicted to gambling in his opening paragraph. Why isn't there mention of Mark David Chapman in the opening of Catcher In The Rye? More people know the book as "the book that crazy people read", than have actually read the book. Because it's a book. That's why it's known and that's the most important thing. In the opening paragraph it has an "oh, by the way" feel to it. It's inappropriate. 68.166.70.23 03:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it's a pretty close call as to whether Hardaway's comments remain notable enough to stay in the lead of the article. I would agree with the previous editor that the Richards comments seem to have had a more lasting impact on the public consciousness for whatever reason, Hardaway's remarks seem to have faded from public view. Still, I guess it makes sense to leave a mention in the lead, but I definitely think the section on the homophobia controversy is too lengthy. For example, the quote from David Stern isn't necessary, it's evident why the NBA chose to distance itself and the footnote can remain after the first sentence rather than the second (so that the NBA statement is still accessible). Likewise, I don't think it's necessary to give a full timeline of Hardaway initially standing behind the remarks and then backing off, it's enough to say that he eventually apologized and then released a statement. Ronnymexico 03:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I've removed Category:Homophobia again because Homophobia isn't central to who he is or what he did. See Category talk:Homophobia for consensus on how/wen the cat should be used. Please comment here before reverting. Thanks! -- SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 03:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It's important that Hardaway's comments were challenged by the host and that he escalated to say that homosexuality (and gays) shouldn't exist, and that he would try to get gay players fired. The "the section is too long" canard is cover for an agenda of portraying his comments as less significant than they were. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.96.67 ( talk) 14:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. George Ho ( talk) 19:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Tim Hardaway → Tim Hardaway Sr. – Equally notable as his son, Tim Jr., not more popular or historically significant than the other. George Ho ( talk) 00:27, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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I reverted the recent deletion of the phrase "Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be removed from the team" from the article. Zellin had deleted it, writing "He never said he would ask for that player to be removed from the team." The Sports Illustrated article (footnote #1) says: "If he did find out that a teammate was gay, Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be removed from the team." It's not a direct quote, but it seems good enough for me. Malik Shabazz 00:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure someone will remove that unfortunate bit at the bottom- Juggsmurf 03:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
As inflammatory as his comments may have been the fact that the homophobia section is now longer than the entire section detailing his life and career, that can't be ballanced. You don't see the Mel Gibson page more than 50% dedicated to his DUI or the michael richards incident. it should defennetly be trimmed down. --- Duhon February 16th 2007
Disagree. The "controversy" does not need to be so extensively detailed on this page. The fact that it is current does not make it so noteworthy as to require such extensive explanation. As to the issue of whether it is the most notable thing Hardaway has ever done, that's a matter of opinion and seems like a bit of a biased point of view. Ronnymexico 21:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, I guess for the time being it is probably fair to include it all. I definitely agree with pruning that section once the controversy subsides in the future though. No problem with the comment move. Ronnymexico 03:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC) This is not the most notable thing about Tim Hardaway. Tim Hardaway was a great player who made the news regularly in his career because of his good games. The fact that most Wikipedia editors do not follow sports should not mean you should dedicate pages to athletes to be about everything they have done outside of sports. It should not have a whole section dedicated to it, it should only be a couple of sentences. If any sourced content stays, then you could have sections added for every professional game he has ever played in. The fact that the editors are so unfamiliar with Tim Hardaway as relating to what he was actually notable for, shows that Wikipedia should have no articles at all on athletes or anything sports related because the editors are not capable of properly editing them because they have no sports knowledge or any concern or will to attain any sources or information on athletics. Conman3000 01:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
If I put as much sports content there as was there for this one news story, all my additions would be removed by another editor. 02:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Conman3000 ( talk • contribs).
All the articles go through this. Any time a new story breaks, concerning a celebrity, that story tends to be overrepresented within the article. As the news story fades, the section is gradually trimmed. Give things a few months and you'll see it slowly shrinking. Honest - it happens every time. 67.55.4.52 15:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
So, he comes out with his comments, and gets added to the LGBT Wikiproject. Does this mean Adolph Hitler is on their list for his stance on gays as well? I think it is a stretch to add him, but just a tad bit funny, too. CodeCarpenter 14:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anybody know why the NPOV and Weasel Words tags were added to the article? I left a note asking the editor who added them, but maybe somebody else can explain. Malik Shabazz 18:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Should the link to it be removed? 70.19.31.152 19:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Site is still down after a year and a half. The ip address it provides to access it is also bogus. Thus, the link has been removed. (
130.102.0.170 (
talk)
06:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA20dKc3kK8
Worth adding something about? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sloane ( talk) • contribs) 23:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC).
Would someone please clean this up? It seems somewhat obscene that his personal views on homosexuality take up way more space on this page then his actual career.
It would be adequate to mention that he made comments toward homosexuals, provide a rebuttal from another source in regards to his comments and leave it at that.
Not too mention that the article is obviously biased in a pro-homosexual light. It is a "little more" than what is needed to report the events. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orasis ( talk • contribs) 17:55, March 9, 2007
--- Indeed and it should be, at the moment it is way too long this news has settled to the back of the newswire by now, I would say it is time to give more space to his actual career then his personal beliefs - which are his, and should not be attacked with flagrant bias. - The section basically condemns him for his personal belief as if he MUST like gay people or else. Orasis
and add the word "at" so it reads "At six feet (1.83 m) tall, he was....." I think that sounds better. Shorty4life88 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I doubt a lot of people will read this before editing, I thought I'd note something as it's happened a few times - will Tim Hardaway fans STOP removing the homophobia controversy from the intro. It IS a "notable" event, despite what you may think, and the fact that it is covered later on in the article is *precisely* why it needs to remain in the introduction. Please see WP:LEDE for further info. Mentality 11:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm still deleting it. ;) There's no mention of Mark David Chapman in the Catcher in the Rye opening, so why should this be here? I can see how alot of homos may think Hardaway was some obscure athlete and this is his defining moment (as evidenced above) but he was an elite level athlete and celebrity for years before this. The fact that it's constantly removed should let you know that it's inapropriate. 66.167.148.135 03:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I just got a message warning me about "3RR", yet Mentality claims to have reverted the edit so many times from different users that he had to put hidden text in the article forbiding it. 66.167.148.135 08:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I request mediation! 68.166.64.241 19:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Now this Shabazz character is threatening to suspend me, yet he doesn't have the balls to coment on the talk page. Since 3RR has already been violated by an editor to keep it in the opening paragraph, I feel justified in deleting it as many times as necessary. Suspend away. It means nothing to me.
The contraversy is not notable enough to warrant mention in the opening paragraph. Maybe it was when he said it, and the few weeks afterwards, but not now. 68.166.64.241 22:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I disagree that Haradaway's comments are still notable. Richards will forever be known for 1) Kramer, and 2) Racist outbursts. Hardaway's comments are pretty much gone from the public consciousness. This is the equivalent of putting the charges of Jordan being addicted to gambling in his opening paragraph. Why isn't there mention of Mark David Chapman in the opening of Catcher In The Rye? More people know the book as "the book that crazy people read", than have actually read the book. Because it's a book. That's why it's known and that's the most important thing. In the opening paragraph it has an "oh, by the way" feel to it. It's inappropriate. 68.166.70.23 03:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it's a pretty close call as to whether Hardaway's comments remain notable enough to stay in the lead of the article. I would agree with the previous editor that the Richards comments seem to have had a more lasting impact on the public consciousness for whatever reason, Hardaway's remarks seem to have faded from public view. Still, I guess it makes sense to leave a mention in the lead, but I definitely think the section on the homophobia controversy is too lengthy. For example, the quote from David Stern isn't necessary, it's evident why the NBA chose to distance itself and the footnote can remain after the first sentence rather than the second (so that the NBA statement is still accessible). Likewise, I don't think it's necessary to give a full timeline of Hardaway initially standing behind the remarks and then backing off, it's enough to say that he eventually apologized and then released a statement. Ronnymexico 03:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I've removed Category:Homophobia again because Homophobia isn't central to who he is or what he did. See Category talk:Homophobia for consensus on how/wen the cat should be used. Please comment here before reverting. Thanks! -- SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 03:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It's important that Hardaway's comments were challenged by the host and that he escalated to say that homosexuality (and gays) shouldn't exist, and that he would try to get gay players fired. The "the section is too long" canard is cover for an agenda of portraying his comments as less significant than they were. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.96.67 ( talk) 14:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. George Ho ( talk) 19:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Tim Hardaway → Tim Hardaway Sr. – Equally notable as his son, Tim Jr., not more popular or historically significant than the other. George Ho ( talk) 00:27, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tim Hardaway. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:10, 24 May 2017 (UTC)