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Character Page has been merged per Wikiproject Final Fantasy Policy and Wikipedia's policy on fictional characters. WP:FICT Gavin Scott ( talk) 22:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The page has been unmerged, but it is again facing the prospect of a merge. If you do not believe it should be or believe it should, please post in Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy VII.
You can put a massive paragraph rambling on about idiotic name pronunciations argued by manic fans, but the not-even-a-full-page describing her backstory in the plot-heavy video game is considered too lengthy? Yup, it's official. Wikipedia is ruined.
I remember when it used to have useful and original information and not just be this terrible mishmash of random factoids from Gamespot and crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.25.49 ( talk) 15:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
This page looks good why the "cleanup" needed?
In the Reception section, it goes on about all the magazines listing her as one of the sexiest characters around. Shouldn't there be a picture of her looking good, to demonstrate this? All there is now is a sketch which the uploader says he got from a fan site. Was this picture used in any game? If in most of her appearances, she was in 3D, then shouldn't there be a 3D picture? The magazines listed surely have a picture of her they choose to use. What game or movie was used most often? Dream Focus 01:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Should a brief snippet be added to explain her role in the OVA? I can understand not including some roles she served in the other novellas, considering that most haven't been translated or were incredibly short, but Episode Denzel is a visual medium, thus more people are likely to view it (I'd imagine many aren't even aware of the novellas). Not to mention, it was included in the English ACC release. It wouldn't have to say much, of course; I can't even remember how long she was in it for. WhiteArcticWolf ( talk) 23:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Since this apparently an issue, and since claiming you have a source is apparently good enough to count as 'sourced information' I bring this here. The hair is dark brown. Not black. The AC SE disk does not contain an interview talking about this. The features on the discs were the same as on the basic SE, the extras were elsewhere, like the novellas. In any case, in the original game, in AC and ACC, in DoC, in CC, BC, Case of Denzel OAV and extra continuity cameos, not to mention her concept art, she has brown hair. It is dark brown. I'm amazed that this is even worth fighting about. In any case, unless those asserting that it is 'officially black' can provide evidence for this claim against all visible evidence to the contrary, their claims should not be taken seriously and not treated as 'sourced' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.44.107 ( talk) 06:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
If this translation was translated properly, and will see if it is, Prologue was not sold with AC. The citation is still incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.44.107 ( talk) 22:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
This is my attempt have a discussion with the people who keep changing the direct quote from Nomura regarding the inferred sex scene under the Highwind to "Nomura in an interview stated he was surprised by the impact it had upon viewers," and "Kitase replaced" to " Kitase rejected" in regards to Nomura's originally proposed scenario.
For a start, what you have written does not give the correct impression of what Nomura actually said. Nomura said in regards to the "impact", and I quote directly from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, "The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable on board the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around, but Kitase turned it down. But even with the line in question, maybe at that time none of us thought it would be something so important (laughs)." Nomura says nothing about being surprised with "the impact it had upon viewers"; he says that they, the creators themselves, didn't realise that the scene, or at least what was implied in that scene, would be so important (presumably to the rest of the compilation's story).
Currently the page also says "A scene intended to imply her and Cloud having sex was proposed by Nomura, but was rejected by Kitase," which is wrong since Kitase didn't flat out reject the scenario, he toned it down and replaced it with the "risqué" line. See what Kitase says about the scene in the same interview in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania: "But I remember having to get another version that was too intense toned down."
If you dislike my addition of direct quotes in the article itself that's fine, but what's currently there incorrectly portrays what has actually been said about this scene officially and needs to be changed. Essoroulettes ( talk) 16:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll add that these lines have been translated by individuals whom wiki has seen fit to use as sources for things like hair color. Also the scene was meant to imply Cloud and Tifa had sex. But was toned down. The implication was not removed. Thus the Highwind scene which is considered important by the creators and included in places like the 10 anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are implied to have sex. Toned down is not rejected. My 2 cents. TheJaff ( talk) 11:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Clear? bye. -- 94.246.150.68 ( talk) 19:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm "rude"? You and the other guy are reverting me and falsely claim it's "not progress". How GENTLE! Dates with ranking are important, being on the list of (say) Top 10 in 2000 is something very different than being still in 2010, thousands of games later. Numbers make it easier to read and navigate the text with understanding. Revertying to redirects after I've corrected the internal links AND calling it "fixing the wikilinks" is just plain STUPID. -- 94.246.150.68 ( talk) 20:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Whoever is still insisting on wrongly changing the hair colour should stop. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.181.40.65 ( talk) 08:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
The pic is pretty much perfect as its both official and free (public domain), the film's character design was realistic too.
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There is a picture not of her from the film, but instead of a random model at a fan show they hired to dress up like her. Is there an actual image of this fictional character from the film we can use there instead? Dream Focus 03:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
"Encyclopedic value" is using free image to show the new design. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 17:22, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Official model. But you're free to provide a better also free image. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
What's with that meme? It's an official model, not "cosplayer". SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 10:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
It really has little bearing on the character and is only barely related at absolute best. Unless gaming websites start covering the reaction and the fact she's been trending for a few days on Twitter because of it, it's not even worth considering for this article.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 13:43, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Put it in the sex appeal section under Reception — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.196.12.156 ( talk) 09:21, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Simply put, the reception section of the article is overflowing with the often hated listicles ( word defined here on Merriam-Webster). While they do come from reliable sources, they are generally poorly written and say little of the character. The reception section in general also gives undue weight towards her physical appearance and body. Outside of the reception section, a lot of the sources are WP:PRIMARY. Due to these factors, I believe it fails criteria 2b at its current state. Also, as a minor point, File:Tifa Lockhart art.png and File:Tifa Lockhart.png could have better fair-use rationale. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 02:46, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Rearranged some parts of the reception and added commentary from Advent Children and Remake. I hope it helps. Tintor2 ( talk) 18:04, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
@ ProtoDrake: Sorry. I won't edit it. Tintor2 ( talk) 21:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I rearranged it a bit more like Aya Brea to separate the sex appeal from other themes related with the character. Now the first paragraph of critical response explores her character in general, the second her relationship with Cloud and the last one her role in the movie and Remake. Tintor2 ( talk) 04:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
I've done a copyedit of the whole article at Tintor's request. I think his recent reorganization of the Reception section is really nice and de-emphasizes the listicles that motivated this GAR to begin with. Are there additional issues people have identified or is it time to make a final decision on the GAR? Axem Titanium ( talk) 22:53, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Axem Titanium: Thanks for the quick help. Tintor2 ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | Tifa Lockhart has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
Character Page has been merged per Wikiproject Final Fantasy Policy and Wikipedia's policy on fictional characters. WP:FICT Gavin Scott ( talk) 22:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The page has been unmerged, but it is again facing the prospect of a merge. If you do not believe it should be or believe it should, please post in Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy VII.
You can put a massive paragraph rambling on about idiotic name pronunciations argued by manic fans, but the not-even-a-full-page describing her backstory in the plot-heavy video game is considered too lengthy? Yup, it's official. Wikipedia is ruined.
I remember when it used to have useful and original information and not just be this terrible mishmash of random factoids from Gamespot and crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.25.49 ( talk) 15:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
This page looks good why the "cleanup" needed?
In the Reception section, it goes on about all the magazines listing her as one of the sexiest characters around. Shouldn't there be a picture of her looking good, to demonstrate this? All there is now is a sketch which the uploader says he got from a fan site. Was this picture used in any game? If in most of her appearances, she was in 3D, then shouldn't there be a 3D picture? The magazines listed surely have a picture of her they choose to use. What game or movie was used most often? Dream Focus 01:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Should a brief snippet be added to explain her role in the OVA? I can understand not including some roles she served in the other novellas, considering that most haven't been translated or were incredibly short, but Episode Denzel is a visual medium, thus more people are likely to view it (I'd imagine many aren't even aware of the novellas). Not to mention, it was included in the English ACC release. It wouldn't have to say much, of course; I can't even remember how long she was in it for. WhiteArcticWolf ( talk) 23:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Since this apparently an issue, and since claiming you have a source is apparently good enough to count as 'sourced information' I bring this here. The hair is dark brown. Not black. The AC SE disk does not contain an interview talking about this. The features on the discs were the same as on the basic SE, the extras were elsewhere, like the novellas. In any case, in the original game, in AC and ACC, in DoC, in CC, BC, Case of Denzel OAV and extra continuity cameos, not to mention her concept art, she has brown hair. It is dark brown. I'm amazed that this is even worth fighting about. In any case, unless those asserting that it is 'officially black' can provide evidence for this claim against all visible evidence to the contrary, their claims should not be taken seriously and not treated as 'sourced' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.44.107 ( talk) 06:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
If this translation was translated properly, and will see if it is, Prologue was not sold with AC. The citation is still incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.44.107 ( talk) 22:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
This is my attempt have a discussion with the people who keep changing the direct quote from Nomura regarding the inferred sex scene under the Highwind to "Nomura in an interview stated he was surprised by the impact it had upon viewers," and "Kitase replaced" to " Kitase rejected" in regards to Nomura's originally proposed scenario.
For a start, what you have written does not give the correct impression of what Nomura actually said. Nomura said in regards to the "impact", and I quote directly from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, "The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable on board the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around, but Kitase turned it down. But even with the line in question, maybe at that time none of us thought it would be something so important (laughs)." Nomura says nothing about being surprised with "the impact it had upon viewers"; he says that they, the creators themselves, didn't realise that the scene, or at least what was implied in that scene, would be so important (presumably to the rest of the compilation's story).
Currently the page also says "A scene intended to imply her and Cloud having sex was proposed by Nomura, but was rejected by Kitase," which is wrong since Kitase didn't flat out reject the scenario, he toned it down and replaced it with the "risqué" line. See what Kitase says about the scene in the same interview in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania: "But I remember having to get another version that was too intense toned down."
If you dislike my addition of direct quotes in the article itself that's fine, but what's currently there incorrectly portrays what has actually been said about this scene officially and needs to be changed. Essoroulettes ( talk) 16:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll add that these lines have been translated by individuals whom wiki has seen fit to use as sources for things like hair color. Also the scene was meant to imply Cloud and Tifa had sex. But was toned down. The implication was not removed. Thus the Highwind scene which is considered important by the creators and included in places like the 10 anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are implied to have sex. Toned down is not rejected. My 2 cents. TheJaff ( talk) 11:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Clear? bye. -- 94.246.150.68 ( talk) 19:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm "rude"? You and the other guy are reverting me and falsely claim it's "not progress". How GENTLE! Dates with ranking are important, being on the list of (say) Top 10 in 2000 is something very different than being still in 2010, thousands of games later. Numbers make it easier to read and navigate the text with understanding. Revertying to redirects after I've corrected the internal links AND calling it "fixing the wikilinks" is just plain STUPID. -- 94.246.150.68 ( talk) 20:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Whoever is still insisting on wrongly changing the hair colour should stop. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.181.40.65 ( talk) 08:34, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
The pic is pretty much perfect as its both official and free (public domain), the film's character design was realistic too.
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There is a picture not of her from the film, but instead of a random model at a fan show they hired to dress up like her. Is there an actual image of this fictional character from the film we can use there instead? Dream Focus 03:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
"Encyclopedic value" is using free image to show the new design. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 17:22, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Official model. But you're free to provide a better also free image. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
What's with that meme? It's an official model, not "cosplayer". SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 10:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
It really has little bearing on the character and is only barely related at absolute best. Unless gaming websites start covering the reaction and the fact she's been trending for a few days on Twitter because of it, it's not even worth considering for this article.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 13:43, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Put it in the sex appeal section under Reception — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.196.12.156 ( talk) 09:21, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Simply put, the reception section of the article is overflowing with the often hated listicles ( word defined here on Merriam-Webster). While they do come from reliable sources, they are generally poorly written and say little of the character. The reception section in general also gives undue weight towards her physical appearance and body. Outside of the reception section, a lot of the sources are WP:PRIMARY. Due to these factors, I believe it fails criteria 2b at its current state. Also, as a minor point, File:Tifa Lockhart art.png and File:Tifa Lockhart.png could have better fair-use rationale. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 02:46, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Rearranged some parts of the reception and added commentary from Advent Children and Remake. I hope it helps. Tintor2 ( talk) 18:04, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
@ ProtoDrake: Sorry. I won't edit it. Tintor2 ( talk) 21:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I rearranged it a bit more like Aya Brea to separate the sex appeal from other themes related with the character. Now the first paragraph of critical response explores her character in general, the second her relationship with Cloud and the last one her role in the movie and Remake. Tintor2 ( talk) 04:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
I've done a copyedit of the whole article at Tintor's request. I think his recent reorganization of the Reception section is really nice and de-emphasizes the listicles that motivated this GAR to begin with. Are there additional issues people have identified or is it time to make a final decision on the GAR? Axem Titanium ( talk) 22:53, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Axem Titanium: Thanks for the quick help. Tintor2 ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2022 (UTC)