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Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
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It is requested that an image or photograph be
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potential copyright fixed -- copyright phrases removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.43.160 ( talk) 19:10, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
It appears that only one section of text about the Mentorship program was plagiarized from the official FCPS school profile -- not the entire article. Can this section on the page not just be removed and rewritten, according to Wikipedia's content policy, instead of hijacking the entire page or showing this message stating that the entire article might need to be deleted? Jw12321 ( talk) 00:09, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/schoolprofile/docs/2014-15TJHSST%20Profile.pdf. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 12:54, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
At least one major contributor to this article appears to have a close personal or professional connection to the topic, and thus to have a conflict of interest. Conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting {{ request edit}} (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.
Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 12:55, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
WP:BLP concerns with this section - most of the living people listed have no references for being in the alumni group. Many or maybe even most of their Wikipedia articles don't even mention TJHSST and if they do there aren't references. I think this section needs some serious trimming and I'll be working on that. Shearonink ( talk) 16:13, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
A while ago, Ketone16 wrote that "proposed large improvement projects should be discussed on the article talk page before implementation". That's not so, editors are under no obligation to discuss changes on the talk-page before making them. Nevertheless, in the case of an article with as many problems as this one, some discussion might help to get things moving. So here's a suggested plan of action:
Shearonink has already reminded us of the three core content policies – neutrality, verifiability and no original research – which apply as much to this page as they do anywhere else. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 18:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Shearonink ( talk) 08:21, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you incorrectly reverted [1] my edits adding alumnus Joshua Specht for lack of notability. As clearly stated in the guidelines for School Alumni, it is not necessary that alumni have their own wikipedia page:
All alumni information must be referenced. See Wikipedia:Footnoting for technical help. Individual alumni need a citation to (a) verify that they did indeed attend the school, and (b) verify the statement of their notability in their short one- or two-line description. When alumni have their own articles in mainspace, it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced, as long as it is done in the biographical articles[clarify]. Be sure to check the existing biography article to ensure that it demonstrates alumni status with a cited reference.
Importantly, Specht's book Red Meat Republic is considered notable for inclusion in Wikipedia, and Specht is the sole author. The edits you removed gave references for (1) Specht's attendence at TJ, (2) Specht's professor position at the University of Notre Dame, and (3) coverage of Specht's book in the press. Significant other journalistic coverage for the book can be found at the book's wikipedia page. Jess_Riedel ( talk) 18:57, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
The image and caption on the right was removed by an editor with the edit summary "Sorry, dont see how this image expands the reader's understanding of the article." MOS:IMAGES states that "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative." This school has a strong robotics program, and the image depicts a portion of one of the school's robots. The image also features two students in googles, which also seems relevant to a school with "Science and Technology" in its name. MOS:IMAGES also encourages editors to "strive for variety" in the selection of images. Considering this was the only photo in the entire article, it seemed to show a fair bit of variety: a robot, a school lab, students, and a visiting politician. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 ( talk) 02:38, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
References
I'm adding this information to the talk page just in case it gets removed from the article:
-- JHP ( talk) 08:42, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The Hill writes that text messages show that the Fairfax County School Board knowingly discriminated against Asian-Americans when they changed the school's admissions policy. [1] -- JHP ( talk) 02:18, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The "Admissions" section has a lot of info about different things related to the school's demographic composition, changes to the admissions process that took place in 2020, and litigation and activism about those changes. I think it should be split into separate sections, with the new "Admission" section being a simple explanation of how the admissions process currently works and a new section to hold all the information about demographics and litigation over the admissions process. Perhaps "Admissions Controversies", or "History of the admissions process". I know this has been edited recently so I don't want to make any significant changes to it without discussion. DinoInNameOnly ( talk) 05:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
These sources are claiming that the school's Principal, as well as the school's Director of Student Services, deliberately avoided telling high achieving students about their possible eligibility for academic awards and scholarships because too many of them were Asian-American.
I think this information should be included in the article.
What do others here think?
Here are some primary sources, as well as a few documents and a video that are linked to from those sources:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-top-high-school-hid-213034509.html
https://www.city-journal.org/war-on-merit-takes-bizarre-turn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujpcvIsMZBU
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23466063-national-merit-tjhsst-emails
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23466082/national-merit-scholarship-corporation-emails.pdf
SquirrelHill1971 ( talk) 15:56, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
I just added the following to the article:
In December 2022, it was reported that during the previous five years [1], Principal Ann Bonitatibus and Director of Student Services Brandon Kosatka had deliberately avoided telling at least 1,200 high achieving students about their possible eligibility for academic awards and scholarships because too many of them were Asian-American. Kosatka explained their actions by saying, “We want to recognize students for who they are as individuals, not focus on their achievements." Kosatka also said that he and Bonitatibus did not want to “hurt” the feelings of students who did not receive any of these awards. A lawyer named Shawna Yashar, whose son was one of the students at the school whose award information had been withheld by the school until it was too late, said, “Keeping these certificates from students is theft by the state.” [2] [3] [4] However, after these initial news reports came out, the school later changed its story, and said that this was a "one-time human error" and denied that it had been deliberate. [5]
SquirrelHill1971 ( talk) 18:15, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
References
There was also a George Will editorial: Will, George (2023-01-13). "In some Virginia schools, 'equity' seems to mean hiding achievement". Washington Post. As it is an editorial, it's best to use it to source George Will's opinion while using non-editorials to source facts. WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect TechMUN has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 13 § TechMUN until a consensus is reached. #prodraxis connect 17:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
potential copyright fixed -- copyright phrases removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.43.160 ( talk) 19:10, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
It appears that only one section of text about the Mentorship program was plagiarized from the official FCPS school profile -- not the entire article. Can this section on the page not just be removed and rewritten, according to Wikipedia's content policy, instead of hijacking the entire page or showing this message stating that the entire article might need to be deleted? Jw12321 ( talk) 00:09, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/schoolprofile/docs/2014-15TJHSST%20Profile.pdf. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 12:54, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
At least one major contributor to this article appears to have a close personal or professional connection to the topic, and thus to have a conflict of interest. Conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting {{ request edit}} (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.
Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 12:55, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
WP:BLP concerns with this section - most of the living people listed have no references for being in the alumni group. Many or maybe even most of their Wikipedia articles don't even mention TJHSST and if they do there aren't references. I think this section needs some serious trimming and I'll be working on that. Shearonink ( talk) 16:13, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
A while ago, Ketone16 wrote that "proposed large improvement projects should be discussed on the article talk page before implementation". That's not so, editors are under no obligation to discuss changes on the talk-page before making them. Nevertheless, in the case of an article with as many problems as this one, some discussion might help to get things moving. So here's a suggested plan of action:
Shearonink has already reminded us of the three core content policies – neutrality, verifiability and no original research – which apply as much to this page as they do anywhere else. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 18:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Shearonink ( talk) 08:21, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you incorrectly reverted [1] my edits adding alumnus Joshua Specht for lack of notability. As clearly stated in the guidelines for School Alumni, it is not necessary that alumni have their own wikipedia page:
All alumni information must be referenced. See Wikipedia:Footnoting for technical help. Individual alumni need a citation to (a) verify that they did indeed attend the school, and (b) verify the statement of their notability in their short one- or two-line description. When alumni have their own articles in mainspace, it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced, as long as it is done in the biographical articles[clarify]. Be sure to check the existing biography article to ensure that it demonstrates alumni status with a cited reference.
Importantly, Specht's book Red Meat Republic is considered notable for inclusion in Wikipedia, and Specht is the sole author. The edits you removed gave references for (1) Specht's attendence at TJ, (2) Specht's professor position at the University of Notre Dame, and (3) coverage of Specht's book in the press. Significant other journalistic coverage for the book can be found at the book's wikipedia page. Jess_Riedel ( talk) 18:57, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
The image and caption on the right was removed by an editor with the edit summary "Sorry, dont see how this image expands the reader's understanding of the article." MOS:IMAGES states that "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative." This school has a strong robotics program, and the image depicts a portion of one of the school's robots. The image also features two students in googles, which also seems relevant to a school with "Science and Technology" in its name. MOS:IMAGES also encourages editors to "strive for variety" in the selection of images. Considering this was the only photo in the entire article, it seemed to show a fair bit of variety: a robot, a school lab, students, and a visiting politician. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 ( talk) 02:38, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
References
I'm adding this information to the talk page just in case it gets removed from the article:
-- JHP ( talk) 08:42, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The Hill writes that text messages show that the Fairfax County School Board knowingly discriminated against Asian-Americans when they changed the school's admissions policy. [1] -- JHP ( talk) 02:18, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The "Admissions" section has a lot of info about different things related to the school's demographic composition, changes to the admissions process that took place in 2020, and litigation and activism about those changes. I think it should be split into separate sections, with the new "Admission" section being a simple explanation of how the admissions process currently works and a new section to hold all the information about demographics and litigation over the admissions process. Perhaps "Admissions Controversies", or "History of the admissions process". I know this has been edited recently so I don't want to make any significant changes to it without discussion. DinoInNameOnly ( talk) 05:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
These sources are claiming that the school's Principal, as well as the school's Director of Student Services, deliberately avoided telling high achieving students about their possible eligibility for academic awards and scholarships because too many of them were Asian-American.
I think this information should be included in the article.
What do others here think?
Here are some primary sources, as well as a few documents and a video that are linked to from those sources:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-top-high-school-hid-213034509.html
https://www.city-journal.org/war-on-merit-takes-bizarre-turn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujpcvIsMZBU
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23466063-national-merit-tjhsst-emails
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23466082/national-merit-scholarship-corporation-emails.pdf
SquirrelHill1971 ( talk) 15:56, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
I just added the following to the article:
In December 2022, it was reported that during the previous five years [1], Principal Ann Bonitatibus and Director of Student Services Brandon Kosatka had deliberately avoided telling at least 1,200 high achieving students about their possible eligibility for academic awards and scholarships because too many of them were Asian-American. Kosatka explained their actions by saying, “We want to recognize students for who they are as individuals, not focus on their achievements." Kosatka also said that he and Bonitatibus did not want to “hurt” the feelings of students who did not receive any of these awards. A lawyer named Shawna Yashar, whose son was one of the students at the school whose award information had been withheld by the school until it was too late, said, “Keeping these certificates from students is theft by the state.” [2] [3] [4] However, after these initial news reports came out, the school later changed its story, and said that this was a "one-time human error" and denied that it had been deliberate. [5]
SquirrelHill1971 ( talk) 18:15, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
References
There was also a George Will editorial: Will, George (2023-01-13). "In some Virginia schools, 'equity' seems to mean hiding achievement". Washington Post. As it is an editorial, it's best to use it to source George Will's opinion while using non-editorials to source facts. WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect TechMUN has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 13 § TechMUN until a consensus is reached. #prodraxis connect 17:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)