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I do not understand why someone wants to delete this page. I am summarizing the author's points by using quotes that are all footnoted. It is not a biased description of Mamet's words - that is why I am being so careful to use his own words. If the person who wants to delete it is calling Mamet biased, that is censorship. This is a published work by a famous author, whose ideas are already in the public marketplace of ideas. I found Mamet's ideas important and fascinating and wanted to share them.````Rosedora —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosedora ( talk • contribs) 04:49, 30 June 2008
Hi - this is the original author. i have tried to follow your advice by improving format of footnotes and adding a bunch of references, including some more reviews and also books on same topic. i must have done something wrong, for page is now a mess, with footnotes and references intermixed and repeated, and most of my new ones not showing, and I couldn't get back in to fix it. waldenpond ( talk) 15:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)Rosedora
I have not read this book, so I figure I'm in the target audience for this article. Unfortunately, the article comes across as highly biased, and also suffers from severe structural problems.
The abundance of extremely short paragraphs makes the article difficult to follow. The information is presented in a very meandering and rambling fashion. Quotations are frequently used, but are given little context. I'd call the article borderline incoherent. It could probably be improved by summarizing David Mamet's argument in two to four paragraphs that also outline the structure of the book. As it is, the thesis or narrative of the book is difficult to detect, although its title provides a substantial hint.
It seems that Mamet's primary claim is that Jews who are critical of Israel are only critical because they hate themselves. Whether or not I am correct in calling that his main point, it apparently forms a significant part of his argument. Needless to say, that is an extremely controversial idea, and one which many Jews would find deeply insulting. It is equally controversial and potentially insulting that Mamet charges all non-Jewish critics of Israel with anti-semitism. However, rather than acknowledging the inflammatory nature of Mamet's claims, the article's tone is reverent. Loaded and emotional language is used, such as, "He decries the hypocrisy that won’t admit this truth..." At times, the language borders on the poetic: "In the lavish bar mitzvah, Mamet sees the sin of the golden calf: in the absence of God, lapsed Jews worship Man, power, gold. It is self-worship, the idolatry of human power." I think the greatest affront is that the last three paragraphs are presented as factual, rather than representative of Mamet's controversial opinions!
I hate to criticize the article so harshly, and I apologize to those who have contributed to it. Nevertheless, the severe POV problems desperately need to be corrected, and the structure needs a complete overhaul.
Also, I'm pretty new to Wikipedia formatting, so I'm sorry if I messed anything up on this page.
Bluemonkee (
talk)
13:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I find it highly peculiar that the author of this article refers to "defenses of Israel that are full of facts, such as those by Alan Dershowitz in The Case for Israel". Dershowitz's "Case for Israel" has been entirely discredited by reputable scholars, and has been shown to be rife with plagiarism and falsification of sources. This is an obvious extreme POV reference to a biased and unreliable source which completely discredits this article. 76.173.75.227 ( talk) 02:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
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I do not understand why someone wants to delete this page. I am summarizing the author's points by using quotes that are all footnoted. It is not a biased description of Mamet's words - that is why I am being so careful to use his own words. If the person who wants to delete it is calling Mamet biased, that is censorship. This is a published work by a famous author, whose ideas are already in the public marketplace of ideas. I found Mamet's ideas important and fascinating and wanted to share them.````Rosedora —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosedora ( talk • contribs) 04:49, 30 June 2008
Hi - this is the original author. i have tried to follow your advice by improving format of footnotes and adding a bunch of references, including some more reviews and also books on same topic. i must have done something wrong, for page is now a mess, with footnotes and references intermixed and repeated, and most of my new ones not showing, and I couldn't get back in to fix it. waldenpond ( talk) 15:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)Rosedora
I have not read this book, so I figure I'm in the target audience for this article. Unfortunately, the article comes across as highly biased, and also suffers from severe structural problems.
The abundance of extremely short paragraphs makes the article difficult to follow. The information is presented in a very meandering and rambling fashion. Quotations are frequently used, but are given little context. I'd call the article borderline incoherent. It could probably be improved by summarizing David Mamet's argument in two to four paragraphs that also outline the structure of the book. As it is, the thesis or narrative of the book is difficult to detect, although its title provides a substantial hint.
It seems that Mamet's primary claim is that Jews who are critical of Israel are only critical because they hate themselves. Whether or not I am correct in calling that his main point, it apparently forms a significant part of his argument. Needless to say, that is an extremely controversial idea, and one which many Jews would find deeply insulting. It is equally controversial and potentially insulting that Mamet charges all non-Jewish critics of Israel with anti-semitism. However, rather than acknowledging the inflammatory nature of Mamet's claims, the article's tone is reverent. Loaded and emotional language is used, such as, "He decries the hypocrisy that won’t admit this truth..." At times, the language borders on the poetic: "In the lavish bar mitzvah, Mamet sees the sin of the golden calf: in the absence of God, lapsed Jews worship Man, power, gold. It is self-worship, the idolatry of human power." I think the greatest affront is that the last three paragraphs are presented as factual, rather than representative of Mamet's controversial opinions!
I hate to criticize the article so harshly, and I apologize to those who have contributed to it. Nevertheless, the severe POV problems desperately need to be corrected, and the structure needs a complete overhaul.
Also, I'm pretty new to Wikipedia formatting, so I'm sorry if I messed anything up on this page.
Bluemonkee (
talk)
13:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I find it highly peculiar that the author of this article refers to "defenses of Israel that are full of facts, such as those by Alan Dershowitz in The Case for Israel". Dershowitz's "Case for Israel" has been entirely discredited by reputable scholars, and has been shown to be rife with plagiarism and falsification of sources. This is an obvious extreme POV reference to a biased and unreliable source which completely discredits this article. 76.173.75.227 ( talk) 02:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)