I am surprised that this page has at least one/few grammar mistakes, though I who (only went to 1st year in the UK and visit every few years, and) made the US society's page, do not think I made as many mistakes. Perhaps in the last statement I took ' passive voice too far and did an 'implied "I"', but this articles page may make 1 - 3 comma splices and use unconventional grammar--like dashes instead of hyphens (and using spaces beside them is less accepted.) This is just to let you know about that and say (the following.)
If you want to improve this article as I imply (or explain I may be wrong:) such as by combining the articles and then combining every single international 'Vegan Society' or one that uses the logo, then please do so. So far I used this article as a template, but some info is only relevant to each society. I do think one large article with introductory Philosophical focus/definition and sections for each would be excellent; I just study (in college and Wikis) too much to do that now....
A later comment: hehe, okay, the dashes' spaces thing is either because En.Wikipedia is American-made, or maybe the spaces are not so large--but what do you think of that and forced use of new 'one space after period' formatting? If your html reader forces ':)' to be smiley in discussion/forums, then that is also a problem-- Dchmelik ( talk) 04:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Why are random phrases in this article bolded? It looks like childish emphasis. Really, only the article subject and variations thereof should be bolded. 76.119.140.100 ( talk) 23:05, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
The Vegan Society. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
The Vegan Society states: "It is interesting to note that although the founding of The Vegan Society is celebrated each year by The Vegan Society on the 1st of November, the actual date when the society was founded is not known. The first quarterly magazine of the new society was dated the 24th of November, and it was the single-handed production of Donald Watson, who was at that time a teacher of woodwork. It seems likely that the founding meeting took place on either the 5th of the 12th of November. Given the very labour intensive process to produce the first issue of Vegan News […] it seems probable that The Vegan Society was founded on the 5th of November 1944."
I will therefore replace "on 1 November 1944" by "in November 1944". -- IvanP ( talk) 16:08, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
Looking at the research being done by John Davis, historian of the IVU, the reasons for the separation of the Vegetarian Society does not appear to be as stated on the article. [1] -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 01:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes weren't supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Consider re-submitting with content based on media, books and scholarly works. |
I am a paid employee of The Vegan Society working in communications. I am also a sometime historian of The Vegan Society. I would be grateful if the suggestions below could be considered.
1. "The Vegan Society is a registered charity and the oldest vegan society in the world, founded in the United Kingdom in November 1944 by Donald Watson and his wife, Dorothy, along with four friends—Elsie Shrigley, Mr G. A. Henderson and his wife Fay K. Henderson were among them.
2. "However, the founding of The Vegan Society is thought to have been either 5 or 12 November 1944."
3."The word 'vegan' was coined by Donald Watson and his then-future wife Dorothy Morgan from the first three and last two letters of 'vegetarian' in 1944".
4. "Vegans separated from the Vegetarian Society because that group refused to support veganism, which they saw as extreme and antisocial".
5. "Their 30 Day Vegan Pledge has been running since 2008, each day providing a recipe, tips, and advice on going vegan. The Vegan Society also offer tools for activists such as free leaflets, as well as advice on effective outreach."
6. "Campaigns – The Vegan Society campaigns on multiple issues. Current campaigns involve improving hospital catering and their 'Grow Green' campaign, whereby farmers are incentivized to move from animal farming towards plant protein crops."
7. "Support – The Vegan Society provides support via its UK network of local contacts as well as a free email-in service."
8. "Registers vegan products with its Vegan Trademark – ensures all products and its derivatives that are registered are free from animal ingredients and testing. The Vegan Society defines 'animal' as all vertebrates and invertebrates, meaning its animal testing policy does not exclude insects, water fleas or any other creature."
Founded November 1944; 76 years ago
Founder Donald Watson
Type Charity
Focus Promoting veganism
Location Birmingham
Area served International
Method Information, support, campaigns, policy, research
Members 8,500 (in 2021)
CEO Louise Davies (interim)
Key people Donald Watson
Website www.vegansociety.com
-- Vhist1847 ( talk 20:14, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
The vegansociety.today website was written by John Davis he is a well respected vegetarian historian. As of 2018 the website is no longer updated nor is their email active. You can contact John through the vegsource website admin. 82.132.228.48 ( talk) 22:51, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
@82.132.228.48,
Thank you for that confirmation. If he's messed up with Jeff Nelson, then it all starts to make sense, even moreso given his partisan involvement with vegetarianism since the 1990s.
I note, for example, one of his publications entitled "Vegans are Vegetarians too"
I can't find any peer review material produced by him, nor any professional CV, so it's self-published WP:OR until some academics go through it.
If he's so well respected, why is it anonymous? -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 00:24, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
@Psychologist Guy,
Make sure to 'play the ball not the man', as you have done a couple of times already. No, the vegansociety.today website is an anonymous blog. Its status has nothing to do with any criticism I might have of it (although I think it's junk produced by clearly partisan players in the movement), it fails WP:Reliable Sources, so no more mention of it.
It's only your assertion that Davis has any connection with it.
I mentioned Nelson involvement as he's notorious unreliable source, critic of the AR movement, a "honeyist" and a "health" vegan, describing them as "crazies", "circle-jerk vegans", "whacko extremists" or "dogmatic religious vegans" [11]. You've just underlined their collusion over all this.
As a further joke, Nelson refers to Davis as "Sir John Davis OBE" on one of his presentations. Sir John Davis OBE was the chief of the Rank Organisation, not some vegetarian amateur historian.
I didn't add 'The Origins of the Vegans: 1944-46'. It is a very old reference posted by someone else, however, I am not challenging it as it contains references giving it validity & is at least authored. A shorthand to those references if you like.
So, to avoid WP:OR what better, independent sources are there to replace Davis? (I'll need to re-read the article to see what else it is that you are talking about). -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 01:57, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm a little concerned, partly due to the paucity of other content, at the undue weight of the new "Controversy" section. It's a little WP:NOTNP.
Within the context of yet undocumented history 77 year old history, I think it could probably be summarised down a single sentence. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 04:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Regardless of its weight, there seem to be a number of other issues with the Controversy section...
1. The Vegan Society references are primary sources from a party with a vested interest. (Notably, this section does not also reference the trustees' online resignations statements, resulting in the perspective of only "one side" being presented.)
2. The Telegraph article was subsequently amended, and an apology issued (suggesting that this wasn't the most reliable source either).
3. This section misgenders Eshe Kiama Zuri ('she had been "forced out" of the Society') despite explicitly referencing their misgendering.
4. Some of the section's claims are not supported by the references. For example, The Vegan Society has not published Omambala's report on their website, only the executive summary. The Board minutes show that they voted to release the full report (once suitably redacted) but reversed this decision after the trustees' resignation.
Overall, I do not consider that this accurately summarises either the facts of the situation or the content of the specific articles. Therefore, given past conflict on this page, I would suggest that this section is reviewed by an experienced and impartial editor (and probably removed until that happens).
WhalesFromWales ( talk) 12:08, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Iyo-farm who is indef blocked from Wikipedia is now evading his block by using mobile IPs.
Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:24, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
Protected 2 days. —valereee ( talk) 16:12, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
The user The_Iyo-farm and the revision in dispute, e.g. [21] weren't me. It's a bogus account set up to discredit the changes in the article.
I'm presuming by the warring user, Psychologist Guy.
I'd like someone to check the IPs, confirm this, & take action appropriately.
Disagreements with content is one thing, but setting up bogus accounts to discredit another is too much.
It's also not vandalising, it's applying WP:UNDUE to Psychologist Guy's attempt to discredit the topic's subject.
Thanks. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 15:25, 4 November 2027 (UTC)
I am surprised that this page has at least one/few grammar mistakes, though I who (only went to 1st year in the UK and visit every few years, and) made the US society's page, do not think I made as many mistakes. Perhaps in the last statement I took ' passive voice too far and did an 'implied "I"', but this articles page may make 1 - 3 comma splices and use unconventional grammar--like dashes instead of hyphens (and using spaces beside them is less accepted.) This is just to let you know about that and say (the following.)
If you want to improve this article as I imply (or explain I may be wrong:) such as by combining the articles and then combining every single international 'Vegan Society' or one that uses the logo, then please do so. So far I used this article as a template, but some info is only relevant to each society. I do think one large article with introductory Philosophical focus/definition and sections for each would be excellent; I just study (in college and Wikis) too much to do that now....
A later comment: hehe, okay, the dashes' spaces thing is either because En.Wikipedia is American-made, or maybe the spaces are not so large--but what do you think of that and forced use of new 'one space after period' formatting? If your html reader forces ':)' to be smiley in discussion/forums, then that is also a problem-- Dchmelik ( talk) 04:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Why are random phrases in this article bolded? It looks like childish emphasis. Really, only the article subject and variations thereof should be bolded. 76.119.140.100 ( talk) 23:05, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
The Vegan Society. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
The Vegan Society states: "It is interesting to note that although the founding of The Vegan Society is celebrated each year by The Vegan Society on the 1st of November, the actual date when the society was founded is not known. The first quarterly magazine of the new society was dated the 24th of November, and it was the single-handed production of Donald Watson, who was at that time a teacher of woodwork. It seems likely that the founding meeting took place on either the 5th of the 12th of November. Given the very labour intensive process to produce the first issue of Vegan News […] it seems probable that The Vegan Society was founded on the 5th of November 1944."
I will therefore replace "on 1 November 1944" by "in November 1944". -- IvanP ( talk) 16:08, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
Looking at the research being done by John Davis, historian of the IVU, the reasons for the separation of the Vegetarian Society does not appear to be as stated on the article. [1] -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 01:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes weren't supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Consider re-submitting with content based on media, books and scholarly works. |
I am a paid employee of The Vegan Society working in communications. I am also a sometime historian of The Vegan Society. I would be grateful if the suggestions below could be considered.
1. "The Vegan Society is a registered charity and the oldest vegan society in the world, founded in the United Kingdom in November 1944 by Donald Watson and his wife, Dorothy, along with four friends—Elsie Shrigley, Mr G. A. Henderson and his wife Fay K. Henderson were among them.
2. "However, the founding of The Vegan Society is thought to have been either 5 or 12 November 1944."
3."The word 'vegan' was coined by Donald Watson and his then-future wife Dorothy Morgan from the first three and last two letters of 'vegetarian' in 1944".
4. "Vegans separated from the Vegetarian Society because that group refused to support veganism, which they saw as extreme and antisocial".
5. "Their 30 Day Vegan Pledge has been running since 2008, each day providing a recipe, tips, and advice on going vegan. The Vegan Society also offer tools for activists such as free leaflets, as well as advice on effective outreach."
6. "Campaigns – The Vegan Society campaigns on multiple issues. Current campaigns involve improving hospital catering and their 'Grow Green' campaign, whereby farmers are incentivized to move from animal farming towards plant protein crops."
7. "Support – The Vegan Society provides support via its UK network of local contacts as well as a free email-in service."
8. "Registers vegan products with its Vegan Trademark – ensures all products and its derivatives that are registered are free from animal ingredients and testing. The Vegan Society defines 'animal' as all vertebrates and invertebrates, meaning its animal testing policy does not exclude insects, water fleas or any other creature."
Founded November 1944; 76 years ago
Founder Donald Watson
Type Charity
Focus Promoting veganism
Location Birmingham
Area served International
Method Information, support, campaigns, policy, research
Members 8,500 (in 2021)
CEO Louise Davies (interim)
Key people Donald Watson
Website www.vegansociety.com
-- Vhist1847 ( talk 20:14, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
The vegansociety.today website was written by John Davis he is a well respected vegetarian historian. As of 2018 the website is no longer updated nor is their email active. You can contact John through the vegsource website admin. 82.132.228.48 ( talk) 22:51, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
@82.132.228.48,
Thank you for that confirmation. If he's messed up with Jeff Nelson, then it all starts to make sense, even moreso given his partisan involvement with vegetarianism since the 1990s.
I note, for example, one of his publications entitled "Vegans are Vegetarians too"
I can't find any peer review material produced by him, nor any professional CV, so it's self-published WP:OR until some academics go through it.
If he's so well respected, why is it anonymous? -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 00:24, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
@Psychologist Guy,
Make sure to 'play the ball not the man', as you have done a couple of times already. No, the vegansociety.today website is an anonymous blog. Its status has nothing to do with any criticism I might have of it (although I think it's junk produced by clearly partisan players in the movement), it fails WP:Reliable Sources, so no more mention of it.
It's only your assertion that Davis has any connection with it.
I mentioned Nelson involvement as he's notorious unreliable source, critic of the AR movement, a "honeyist" and a "health" vegan, describing them as "crazies", "circle-jerk vegans", "whacko extremists" or "dogmatic religious vegans" [11]. You've just underlined their collusion over all this.
As a further joke, Nelson refers to Davis as "Sir John Davis OBE" on one of his presentations. Sir John Davis OBE was the chief of the Rank Organisation, not some vegetarian amateur historian.
I didn't add 'The Origins of the Vegans: 1944-46'. It is a very old reference posted by someone else, however, I am not challenging it as it contains references giving it validity & is at least authored. A shorthand to those references if you like.
So, to avoid WP:OR what better, independent sources are there to replace Davis? (I'll need to re-read the article to see what else it is that you are talking about). -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 01:57, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm a little concerned, partly due to the paucity of other content, at the undue weight of the new "Controversy" section. It's a little WP:NOTNP.
Within the context of yet undocumented history 77 year old history, I think it could probably be summarised down a single sentence. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 04:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Regardless of its weight, there seem to be a number of other issues with the Controversy section...
1. The Vegan Society references are primary sources from a party with a vested interest. (Notably, this section does not also reference the trustees' online resignations statements, resulting in the perspective of only "one side" being presented.)
2. The Telegraph article was subsequently amended, and an apology issued (suggesting that this wasn't the most reliable source either).
3. This section misgenders Eshe Kiama Zuri ('she had been "forced out" of the Society') despite explicitly referencing their misgendering.
4. Some of the section's claims are not supported by the references. For example, The Vegan Society has not published Omambala's report on their website, only the executive summary. The Board minutes show that they voted to release the full report (once suitably redacted) but reversed this decision after the trustees' resignation.
Overall, I do not consider that this accurately summarises either the facts of the situation or the content of the specific articles. Therefore, given past conflict on this page, I would suggest that this section is reviewed by an experienced and impartial editor (and probably removed until that happens).
WhalesFromWales ( talk) 12:08, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Iyo-farm who is indef blocked from Wikipedia is now evading his block by using mobile IPs.
Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:24, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
Protected 2 days. —valereee ( talk) 16:12, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
The user The_Iyo-farm and the revision in dispute, e.g. [21] weren't me. It's a bogus account set up to discredit the changes in the article.
I'm presuming by the warring user, Psychologist Guy.
I'd like someone to check the IPs, confirm this, & take action appropriately.
Disagreements with content is one thing, but setting up bogus accounts to discredit another is too much.
It's also not vandalising, it's applying WP:UNDUE to Psychologist Guy's attempt to discredit the topic's subject.
Thanks. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 15:25, 4 November 2027 (UTC)