This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
novels,
novellas,
novelettes and
short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saudi Arabia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
Saudi Arabia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Saudi ArabiaWikipedia:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaTemplate:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that The Twins, the only novel by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, is widely considered to be the first novel of Saudi Arabian literature? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
ALT0a: ... that The Twins, a 1930 story by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, was called the first Saudi Arabian novel? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
ALT1:... that Saudi Arabian journalist and historian Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari was employed just two days after his graduation from an Islamic school? Source:...on the second day after his graduation on 21 February 1928, he was sitting in his office at the Divan of the Emirate of Medina as the youngest employee.
Reviewed: NA
Comment: Another DYK i like to mention from the article:ALT1a:... that Saudi Arabian journalist and historian Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari was employed by the local government of Hejaz in Saudi Arabia just two days after his graduation from high school after they checked his report card?
This is just a first comment, not a review yet: First, you have to decide, whether you want to nominate the article about the writer Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari or The Twins (1930 novel). These two articles are mixed up in your nomination and hooks. The article on the writer first would need serious copyeding, which I have no time to do. - I have just done some copyediting for The Twins, and added a section with the only two titles on Saudi literature in languages other than Arabic. (In Polish and Turkish, with English abstracts).
The article on Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari has no sources in English, though. - As far as I know, the English wp needs at least some sources in English for notability, so I am not sure, if the articles already meets the notability criteria. Maybe you can find and add a source in English? - Hopefully another editor like @
Mccapra: can answer this question, before we can do a review.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
08:09, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It’s not a requirement to have English sources in order to demonstrate notability. It may be a requirement for DYK or good article status but I don’t know about them. I’ve added an English language ref to each of the two articles. There are certainly others but in a Google search they only appear as snippet views so I don’t want to rely on them as I can’t read them properly. Someone with access to a university library need to check them. So I’m afraid in terms of strengthening sourcing that’s all I can contribute. I can say though as a new page reviewer that there’s no doubt at all about the notability of the subject. All the best
Mccapra (
talk)
11:49, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Overall: After further confirmation that sources need not always be in English, and as two sources in English and two works in other languages have been added under Further reading, this well researched article is ok. Also, the hatnote about issues with the English text has been taken care of by further copyediting.
No copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened as in ALT0a:.
Important note: The template says Template:Did you know nominations/The Twins (1930 novel), but this nomination actually refers to Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari. There seems to have been a mistake during the nomination.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
17:36, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
You can certainly link to it; it's not the nominated article, nor is it DYK eligible. I believe Ruwaym intended to nominate both and realized one would not be eligible. It's fine where it is; in the event of normal page moves, we don't move the DYK nomination page (and I've seen this several times).
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c)
17:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Munfarid1: I meant mix two sentences to make one DYK, like " Did you know author of first Saudi novel, Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari employed just two days after his graduation from an Islamic school?" something like that. @
Sammi Brie: Yes, "The Twins" article is not eligible, but the author article is well-written.
Ruwaym (
talk)
20:39, 6 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Munfarid1,
Sammi Brie, and
Ruwaym: Is there an approved hook for this article? If so, can an approver place a green tick below this comment, specifying the approved hooks? If not, can someone outline what the next steps are? Thanks,
Z1720 (
talk)
01:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Y
@
Z1720: I believe the approved hook was ALT01a (which I have boldly numbered ALT0a with this edit to avoid confusion). It is presented below.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c)
03:23, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply
As reviewer, I have just strikken through the other hooks, and yes, this is the best hook. ALT0a ... that The Twins, a 1930 story by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, was called the first Saudi Arabian novel? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
07:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
novels,
novellas,
novelettes and
short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saudi Arabia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
Saudi Arabia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Saudi ArabiaWikipedia:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaTemplate:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that The Twins, the only novel by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, is widely considered to be the first novel of Saudi Arabian literature? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
ALT0a: ... that The Twins, a 1930 story by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, was called the first Saudi Arabian novel? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
ALT1:... that Saudi Arabian journalist and historian Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari was employed just two days after his graduation from an Islamic school? Source:...on the second day after his graduation on 21 February 1928, he was sitting in his office at the Divan of the Emirate of Medina as the youngest employee.
Reviewed: NA
Comment: Another DYK i like to mention from the article:ALT1a:... that Saudi Arabian journalist and historian Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari was employed by the local government of Hejaz in Saudi Arabia just two days after his graduation from high school after they checked his report card?
This is just a first comment, not a review yet: First, you have to decide, whether you want to nominate the article about the writer Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari or The Twins (1930 novel). These two articles are mixed up in your nomination and hooks. The article on the writer first would need serious copyeding, which I have no time to do. - I have just done some copyediting for The Twins, and added a section with the only two titles on Saudi literature in languages other than Arabic. (In Polish and Turkish, with English abstracts).
The article on Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari has no sources in English, though. - As far as I know, the English wp needs at least some sources in English for notability, so I am not sure, if the articles already meets the notability criteria. Maybe you can find and add a source in English? - Hopefully another editor like @
Mccapra: can answer this question, before we can do a review.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
08:09, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It’s not a requirement to have English sources in order to demonstrate notability. It may be a requirement for DYK or good article status but I don’t know about them. I’ve added an English language ref to each of the two articles. There are certainly others but in a Google search they only appear as snippet views so I don’t want to rely on them as I can’t read them properly. Someone with access to a university library need to check them. So I’m afraid in terms of strengthening sourcing that’s all I can contribute. I can say though as a new page reviewer that there’s no doubt at all about the notability of the subject. All the best
Mccapra (
talk)
11:49, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Overall: After further confirmation that sources need not always be in English, and as two sources in English and two works in other languages have been added under Further reading, this well researched article is ok. Also, the hatnote about issues with the English text has been taken care of by further copyediting.
No copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened as in ALT0a:.
Important note: The template says Template:Did you know nominations/The Twins (1930 novel), but this nomination actually refers to Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari. There seems to have been a mistake during the nomination.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
17:36, 5 August 2022 (UTC)reply
You can certainly link to it; it's not the nominated article, nor is it DYK eligible. I believe Ruwaym intended to nominate both and realized one would not be eligible. It's fine where it is; in the event of normal page moves, we don't move the DYK nomination page (and I've seen this several times).
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c)
17:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Munfarid1: I meant mix two sentences to make one DYK, like " Did you know author of first Saudi novel, Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari employed just two days after his graduation from an Islamic school?" something like that. @
Sammi Brie: Yes, "The Twins" article is not eligible, but the author article is well-written.
Ruwaym (
talk)
20:39, 6 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Munfarid1,
Sammi Brie, and
Ruwaym: Is there an approved hook for this article? If so, can an approver place a green tick below this comment, specifying the approved hooks? If not, can someone outline what the next steps are? Thanks,
Z1720 (
talk)
01:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Y
@
Z1720: I believe the approved hook was ALT01a (which I have boldly numbered ALT0a with this edit to avoid confusion). It is presented below.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c)
03:23, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply
As reviewer, I have just strikken through the other hooks, and yes, this is the best hook. ALT0a ... that The Twins, a 1930 story by Abd al-Quddus al-Ansari, was called the first Saudi Arabian novel? Source: Al-Harithi, Muhammad Musa (2015). Hamdi, al-Sakkut (ed.). Qāmūs al-Adab al-ʻArabi al-Hadith قاموس الأدب العربي الحديث [Dictionary of Modern Arabic Literature] (in Arabic) (first ed.). Cairo, Egypt: General Egyptian Book Organization. p. 468.
ISBN9789779102146.
Munfarid1 (
talk)
07:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)reply